Oh my, I want to go to Law School

Vi Monks

Hello, all.

I'm currently a sophomore in undergraduate school and I've recently become interested in going to law school after I graduate. I've set up meetings with the pre-law adviser on campus and talked to a number of other students at my school who will be attending law school but here's my catch: I spent a lot of time recently looking up various statistics and other information about law school admission; now I'm freaked the hell out.

Granted, I'm looking at the top law schools in the country but still, the competition is obviously intense, to say the least. To that end, I figure I better find help anywhere I can; thus I turn to you, H/A. I searched a bit and found some threads on the LSAT. While they were certainly useful, my concerns are more general than that at this point. Furthermore, the LSAT isn't my primary worry -- it's everything else.

So what advice can any other law students (graduated and working, attending law school, or just thinking about it) offer? I've been told that LSAT and GPA are, overall, weighed about the same, differing slightly from school to school. Other than those two factors, however, I don't really know where everything else weighs in -- internships, extracurricular/student organizations, writing samples, interviews, et cetera. In what areas would those more knowledgeable than myself recommend I focus?

Really, I'm just looking for any advice at all. As I said, I need all the help I can get. Thanks in advance.

naporeon

Don't forget your personal statement. Perspectives differ on its impact, but I believe that it helped sell a few of the schools that I applied to. Also, I wrote one "template" statement, and tailored it to each of the schools I applied to, mentioning things specific to each school. I'm not sure if this helped, but it sure didn't hurt.

One thing that many people overlook during the application process is life experience. It may seem silly, but if you feel like taking a break after completing your bachelor's, and perhaps traveling, joining the Peace Corps, or, say, moving to Japan or Brazil to teach English, this can actually work very much in your favor.

Personally speaking, I took two years off between my AA and BA. I saved up and moved to Scotland, where I worked in a halfway house and the Kelvingrove museum. After returning to the US and finishing my BA, I moved back to my hometown, and spent another two years working in AmeriCorps before finally applying to law school. From what I could tell, my experiences traveling, my job history, and pattern of volunteer work all figured heavily in the admissions process.

And I can also say that, based on my LSAT/GPA and the reactions of the schools I applied to, many schools actually do weight the LSAT more than GPA, despite what they might claim. And don't worry, I had a godawful GPA, and I still got into my first choice.

variant

160+, a good GPA, and a good statement will get you in to most law schools.

Septus

I've been giving it a bit of thought as well, however, I think I'm just about positive I'd not actually be practicing with a law degree. I might consider being a prosecutor for a DA's office, but I'd likely just use it to supplement my current career in state government/legislative work.

So that does actually give me life experience, but yeah, my GPA(I forget, 2.8?) was pretty bad. Would the not wanting to practice thing, be a hindrance to acceptance if I were to put that anywhere in my statement?

Vi Monks

naporeon wrote: »

Don't forget your personal statement. Perspectives differ on its impact, but I believe that it helped sell a few of the schools that I applied to. Also, I wrote one "template" statement, and tailored it to each of the schools I applied to, mentioning things specific to each school. I'm not sure if this helped, but it sure didn't hurt.

Ah yes, I almost forgot about it. That should come out pretty well -- I'm an English/Philosophy double major with a knack for writing so I'm sure I can use the personal statement to my advantage.

naporeon wrote: »

One thing that many people overlook during the application process is life experience. It may seem silly, but if you feel like taking a break after completing your bachelor's, and perhaps traveling, joining the Peace Corps, or, say, moving to Japan or Brazil to teach English, this can actually work very much in your favor.

Well darn, I was just thinking that stuff like this wouldn't have that big of an impact. For me, unfortunately, it might come down to a simple lack of time. For various reasons (family financial situations primarily), taking time off after my BA is unlikely but I appreciate the insight and will definitely look into it. Perhaps I can get an internship over my junior summer (I'm already working with a professor as a research assistant this summer) that will give me some of that "life experience" stuff.

naporeon wrote: »

And I can also say that, based on my LSAT/GPA and the reactions of the schools I applied to, many schools actually do weight the LSAT more than GPA, despite what they might claim. And don't worry, I had a godawful GPA, and I still got into my first choice.

I certainly hope you're right here as I'm quite a good standardized test taker. Though at the risk of looking arrogant, I'll give a few more details about my own situation in relation to this point. My GPA is currently a 3.683 at a rather prestigious private liberal arts school and I confidently expect that to rise. From looking over various LSAT practice material, I'm expecting a score of 170 at the least. Thus I'm looking at Yale, Stanford, Harvard, and then working my way down from there. I realize that these numbers might be a bit low for such prestigious schools but I have to give it a shot.

That having been said, in my research on Yale's admission statistics, for instance, I found that with an LSAT between 175 and 180 and a GPA of 3.75 or higher, the admission rate is 41.81%. With a GPA 3.75 or higher but an LSAT score of 'only' 170-174, the admission rate is 20.18%; however, with an LSAT score of 175-180 and a GPA of 3.50-3.75, the admission rate drops to 9.02%. This leads me to believe that Yale weighs GPA higher than LSAT (though it also shows they consider pretty heavily other factors as well -- otherwise the admission rate for top tier GPA/LSAT would be much higher).

Now I do not know if this trend is the same across most top-tier schools but this is how it seems to be done at Yale. I believe I can pull off a 3.75 and even an LSAT higher than 175 but both will be quite difficult, thus my hope that other factors can play heavily into the process and I can capitalize on those as well.

Septus wrote: »

So that does actually give me life experience, but yeah, my GPA(I forget, 2.8?) was pretty bad. Would the not wanting to practice thing, be a hindrance to acceptance if I were to put that anywhere in my statement?

Well I'm not the most qualified to answer this statement but I can offer what little insight I have. From what I understand, quite a large number of law school graduates end up practicing law (surprise, surprise). However, considering how helpful a law degree would be in the type of government work you indicated, I doubt it would hurt your admission chances. Though don't take this from me.

Thanks for the help, everyone.

naporeon

Well, my GPA was significantly lower than yours is shaping up to be, and I was an Anthropology/Psychology double major. I didn't apply to Yale, Stanford, or Harvard, but I did apply to Columbia and UCal-Berk, and I got into both of those. If you like, I can PM you with my GPA and LSAT information. I am hesitant to post either on the boards.

Oh, and I can't believe I forgot: Rolling admissions. I'm sure you know, but apply the day admissions open for the schools you are applying to. The earlier in the process you apply, the better.

Vi Monks

naporeon wrote: »

Well, my GPA was significantly lower than yours is shaping up to be, and I was an Anthropology/Psychology double major. I didn't apply to Yale, Stanford, or Harvard, but I did apply to Columbia and UCal-Berk, and I got into both of those. If you like, I can PM you with my GPA and LSAT information. I am hesitant to post either on the boards.

Oh, and I can't believe I forgot: Rolling admissions. I'm sure you know, but apply the day admissions open for the schools you are applying to. The earlier in the process you apply, the better.

Ah, rolling admissions. I didn't know they did that. Thanks for the heads-up.

And yes, if you wouldn't mind, I'd appreciate knowing your LSAT and GPA. It's nice to make comparisons. Thanks for all your advice.

Congratulations on Berk and Columbia, by the way -- both excellent schools from what I've read.

naporeon

PM sent.

Shazkar Shadowstorm

Yay, Columbia. My jiu-jitsu teacher is a Columbia Law School grad who set up the club while he was a student.. and the guy I roll with a lot because he's my size is currently at the Law School.

Good luck.


Afaik from what I've heard the LSAT > GPA, but I really don't know anything, I just kind of wanted to say good luck.

Sarcastro

naporeon wrote:

Personally speaking, I took two years off between my AA and BA...

What is this AA mean?

naporeon

Sarcastro wrote: »

naporeon wrote:

Personally speaking, I took two years off between my AA and BA...

What is this AA mean?

Associate of Arts. It's a two year degree. Generally speaking, you get them at community colleges, and then transfer to a four-year university as a junior.

Vi Monks

Shazkar Shadowstorm wrote: »

Yay, Columbia. My jiu-jitsu teacher is a Columbia Law School grad who set up the club while he was a student.. and the guy I roll with a lot because he's my size is currently at the Law School.

Good luck.


Afaik from what I've heard the LSAT > GPA, but I really don't know anything, I just kind of wanted to say good luck.

Thanks for the luck; always appreciated.

naporeon

Second PM sent.

And also, good luck!

Vi Monks

naporeon wrote: »

Second PM sent.

And also, good luck!

Reply sent and thanks.

Sentry

Choose your major with a mind to going to Law School. Remember, a large portion of Law Students were poli sci majors, so if you are one you aren't going to stand out as much in the process (of course you can stand out in other ways, don't get me wrong.) Choosing an off-beat major can help you a lot, my friend majored in Chemestry and she got a half ride to Notre Dame despite a relativly standard LSAT score. Where as the book I mention below seems very reluctant to take Criminal Justice or English majors.

There's a book out called How to Get Into Top Law Schools, it was really benificial in that it went over every part of the application process and had testimony from admissions reps at Harvard Law and a number of other Teir 1 law schools. You might want to pick it up.

naporeon

Sentry wrote: »

Choose your major with a mind to going to Law School. Remember, a large portion of Law Students were poli sci majors, so if you are one you aren't going to stand out as much in the process (of course you can stand out in other ways, don't get me wrong.) Choosing an off-beat major can help you a lot, my friend majored in Chemestry and she got a half ride to Notre Dame despite a relativly standard LSAT score. Where as the book I mention below seems very reluctant to take Criminal Justice or English majors.

There's a book out called How to Get Into Top Law Schools, it was really benificial in that it went over every part of the application process and had testimony from admissions reps at Harvard Law and a number of other Teir 1 law schools. You might want to pick it up.

I don't know that I agree with you.

Even citing the book.

I think that the prevailing wisdom is that most humanities degree tracks are A-OK. I have nowhere heard it said that being an English major is frowned upon. In fact, the only area I've ever heard consistently derided was, ironically, Pre-Law.

Vi Monks

Sentry wrote: »

Choose your major with a mind to going to Law School. Remember, a large portion of Law Students were poli sci majors, so if you are one you aren't going to stand out as much in the process (of course you can stand out in other ways, don't get me wrong.) Choosing an off-beat major can help you a lot, my friend majored in Chemestry and she got a half ride to Notre Dame despite a relativly standard LSAT score. Where as the book I mention below seems very reluctant to take Criminal Justice or English majors.

There's a book out called How to Get Into Top Law Schools, it was really benificial in that it went over every part of the application process and had testimony from admissions reps at Harvard Law and a number of other Teir 1 law schools. You might want to pick it up.

Thanks for the tip; I'll look into that book. As far as major goes, I'm already done with English so no going back there (and I enjoy it enough that I wouldn't anyway), though my second major (which I have plenty of time for) is still somewhat up for grabs and my interests are broad so it could go any way. Perhaps that book will have something to say.

I'm also seeing if I can develop, through various networks, a conversation with various law school admissions councilors, which would obviously be quite helpful in this decision.

naporeon wrote: »

I don't know that I agree with you.

Even citing the book.

I think that the prevailing wisdom is that most humanities degree tracks are A-OK. I have nowhere heard it said that being an English major is frowned upon. In fact, the only area I've ever heard consistently derided was, ironically, Pre-Law.

Like you, naporeon, I've generally heard English as an acceptable if not favorable major for undergraduate study, though I'm sure many people are of varying opinion on the matter -- clearly the author of that book is. Good to hear another voice though and, as I mentioned, hopefully I can talk to some admissions councilors and see what they have to say about it.

Sentry

Doh!!! Sorry... I got that totally wrong. I am sincerely sorry. I just went back and re-read it.

It's Criminal Justice and Education. Not English. My bad!!

Vi Monks

Sentry wrote: »

Doh!!! Sorry... I got that totally wrong. I am sincerely sorry. I just went back and re-read it.

It's Criminal Justice and Education. Not English. My bad!!

Heh, no worries.