So, as I said, I was suspicious of Aaron from pretty near the beginning. Child abusers rarely fare well in popular entertainment. When he has his ragegasm at Trina's boyfriend I was pretty sure. Bonus evidence was his total dickishness to his kid, so fucking his girlfriend and then killing her was not out of bounds. And Lilly needed to have a major secret that was the motive, so that all worked out, and didn't make as much sense for the Kanes (unless she saw Jake and Lianne, but like you I thought Jake was the least likely of the Kanes).
Yeah, for all his occasional issues, Duncan's Dad seems like a decent enough guy.
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AstaerethIn the belly of the beastRegistered Userregular
Okay, in all seriousness...
Damn, that was a fantastic episode of television. The Aaron reveal hit the target of "surprising, yet makes complete sense" for me, and it was great seeing it all come together instantly. "Oh, right, he is horrifically violent and obsessed with his public image enough to kill over it." The actor had a great time finally playing the villain, too. Loved him ranting to Veronica over the walkie-talkie (which was nicely planted in an earlier scene with Wallace). I was pleased to see I guessed everything about the cover-up, though--the Kanes finding Duncan covered in blood and believing he committed the murder, and working to protect him. But yeah, they did a fantastic job of establishing Aaron's personality and even his violence without me noticing or thinking that the show was giving him too much air time or anything.
The chase/action sequence was tense and thrilling, all the more so because the show rarely went to that well, and because it played well that everybody was all of a sudden really scared for her as she was leaving the party. I wish Veronica had been a little more active during it (although the box is a decent symbol for what she's been going through). She does, at least, get to make the very badass call to crash her car immediately. "Keep driving." "No, fuck that." swerve
I also really liked that they gave the Lily hallucinations closure; at least in Veronica's mind, her spirit is at peace.
Oh, and Veronica got her hug! The scene where she signs the papers and finds out about her parentage felt really, really good.
So who's at the door? I'm hoping it's Logan, and that Weevil pulled him off that ledge. Honestly, Logan's character arc this season has been really, truly excellent. Thinking about it, it may be the only real arc of the season--I'm not sure Veronica changes all that much throughout the story, other than just coming to a greater understanding of her past. I need to think more on this; the problem is that V goes back and forth on certain things, and it's more about her dealing with her social situation, her trust issues, and her relationships with several people than it is her actually growing. Case in point, she was wrong to suspect Logan (on, I think, fairly shaky evidence; I get that she was acting on the combination of the rape investigation and the hidden cameras and all that, but if nothing else, Keith should have slowed her down), but right to decide not to trust her mother.
Maybe that is growth, though... Veronica starts the season having pushed away (or ran from) virtually everybody, and from one perspective, the show has been a series of object lessons in keeping your friends close and your enemies at quip's length... and learning how to tell one from the other. As she says early on, "The hero is the one who stays, the villain is the one who splits." Maybe it's time for her to stop being the villain and start being the hero.
But does she? I guess I'll find out in season 2...
Overall, that was an excellent season of television, one that really grew as it went along and worked in some very nice organic developments. It also gets major props for doing a mostly well-written mystery with a surprising but satisfying solution. (I say mostly because the way the show doled out information got pretty wonky at times, in terms of facts about the case I wish I had known or been told more clearly--down to Veronica for some reason not knowing what exactly the murder weapon was. I mean, come on.)
Also, I just realized that I totally called way earlier (in my head) that the show's class tensions were ripe for some Romeo and Juliet style "we're from two different worlds!" romance, and subsequently didn't notice it when they did just that, with rich boy Logan and outsider Veronica bravely standing up for their fledgling relationship in front of the disapproving 09-ers. Which was also a really great moment. I guess I'm just a sucker for a bad boy turned good. Here's hoping he's not dead, or I will be sad.
Anyway! I can't wait to watch season 2... but I must, at least a few days. I need a sorbet or anything anyway, to give the season time to sink in. I have been meaning to finish Future Diary...
The first season is better on rewatch, when you know who did it.
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
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Bloods EndBlade of TyshallePunch dimensionRegistered Userregular
After all the recent hoopla I started to rewatch the series. Got my roomate hooked on it too. 10 episodes later and we are having to pry ourselves away from it
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scherbchenAsgard (it is dead)Registered Userregular
One of us! One of us!
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Dark Raven XLaugh hard, run fast,be kindRegistered Userregular
And now I've finished Season 1!
It was real good.
Lily's murder made perfect sense. I got sorta spoilered on it early on, but I thought it was Logan that did it. Aaron made so much more sense, and when it all fell into place it felt so obvious all along. And Keith is my favourite dad character ever. The finale was so damn tense, like woah.
Oh brilliant
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Dark Raven XLaugh hard, run fast,be kindRegistered Userregular
Halfway through Season 2. Real talk; it's handling the overall mystery even better than the first. Every ep gives a new clue or insight or new potential bad guy. Season 1 dropped a few clues early on, then that was it until the end.
Halfway through Season 2. Real talk; it's handling the overall mystery even better than the first. Every ep gives a new clue or insight or new potential bad guy. Season 1 dropped a few clues early on, then that was it until the end.
Wow, this is totally the opposite in my opinion. The second season's pacing is bad.
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
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Dark Raven XLaugh hard, run fast,be kindRegistered Userregular
But they're giving new stuff every single episode! The whole season is revolving around the bus crash, as opposed to one every few eps in the first season.
Also, I found season 2 to be suffering from ADD. With season 1, Lily Kane is very much at the centre of things; the bus crash, on the other hand, comes and goes. Outside the bits that are explicitly about the mystery, it just doesn't feel like the crash is all that central to Veronica. There are too many distractions.
"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
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Dark Raven XLaugh hard, run fast,be kindRegistered Userregular
The investigation changes hands from Veronica to her dad, so the mystery becomes the b plot for a while, granted, but it's ever present. Pretty sure there's not been an episode without it yet, and I like that.
I'm braced for a disappointing resolution since it seems to be regarded as poorer than the first season though...
The investigation changes hands from Veronica to her dad, so the mystery becomes the b plot for a while, granted, but it's ever present. Pretty sure there's not been an episode without it yet, and I like that.
I'm braced for a disappointing resolution since it seems to be regarded as poorer than the first season though...
the pieces just don't quite come together as neatly, yeah.
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Dark Raven XLaugh hard, run fast,be kindRegistered Userregular
Thoughts on Season 2;
OK. So. The investigation was weak, but the killer reveal and motive was just as perfect as Aaron Echolls, imo. I agree it's weaker overall than Season 1, but it's not a sudden dive into terribleness.
OK. So. The investigation was weak, but the killer reveal and motive was just as perfect as Aaron Echolls, imo. I agree it's weaker overall than Season 1, but it's not a sudden dive into terribleness.
No, it's not bad. It's just not even close to as good as the first season.
And I hate the reveal at the end, which is flawed in a ton of ways. Beaver isn't a narcissist like Aaron, so him doing the villain reveal thing doesn't make as much sense. Changing the resolution of "A Trip to the Dentist" sucks. And at the end he insists his name is "Cassidy" which Veronica uses pretty frequently throughout the season. That episode sucks and is one of my least favorite of the first two seasons.
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
OK. So. The investigation was weak, but the killer reveal and motive was just as perfect as Aaron Echolls, imo. I agree it's weaker overall than Season 1, but it's not a sudden dive into terribleness.
No, it's not bad. It's just not even close to as good as the first season.
And I hate the reveal at the end, which is flawed in a ton of ways. Beaver isn't a narcissist like Aaron, so him doing the villain reveal thing doesn't make as much sense. Changing the resolution of "A Trip to the Dentist" sucks. And at the end he insists his name is "Cassidy" which Veronica uses pretty frequently throughout the season. That episode sucks and is one of my least favorite of the first two seasons.
Yeah, the whole second season mystery (the whole second season really) is kind of a mess.
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AstaerethIn the belly of the beastRegistered Userregular
Just finished the second season. Killer finale, even better than season 1's.
I like the bus plot a lot, especially once they started characterizing the victims through Veronica's dreams. I liked the structure of the mystery better than season 1's as well--instead of a handful of suspects whose motives and alibis were the whole focus, this season used their cases of the week to give one or more reasons why somebody would want each kid on the bus dead. The use of Woody was a nice misdirect, the trial of Aaron's dad was a great reminder of Veronica's flaws (and Logan's), and I think the killer reveal at the end is great, and retroactively makes Beaver an even more interesting character.
If the season has a weakness structurally, it's that the PCH/Fitzgerald plot never coheres into anything meaningful to the overall story (and the same goes for Wallace's girl troubles--Jackie is kind of interesting, and it does good things for the Wallace/Veronica friendship, but she's never properly integrated into the group or the ongoing mystery).
The real problem with the season is how melodramatic it is. Nothing quite goes over the top, but it's definitely within spitting distance a number of times. Like any time Charisma Carpenter is on-screen. I'd add the way Duncan gets written off the show to that, but really I was just glad--he and Veronica have zero chemistry, and I think it was largely a mistake for the show to break up Logan and Veronica between seasons anyway.
Thematically, though, this season was even stronger than the first one (outside of the class issues, which are more of a backdrop here). If season one is essentially a compare and contrast between different sets of parental relationships and the effects they have on their children--one which ultimately argues that, for all of its problems, Keith and Veronica's relationship is the strongest one on the show and a large part of the reason Veronica is as awesome as she is--then season two asks its set of seniors to deal with parental abandonment in all its forms. This is where the show draws in some of its plot threads--Jackie is dealing with parental abandonment on both sides, Wallace has to deal with his absent father, Weevil abdicates responsibility over his gang, and Woody Goodman and Lamb represent the ways in which the town's authority figures fail to protect and serve their constituents. In deliberate contrast to the first season finale, this year's gets Keith out of the way for the coming danger--even appearing to kill him off, something which I definitely thought the show capable of at this point (but boy am I glad they didn't, that would have been so sad)--leaving Veronica to get herself out of trouble. It's a very poignant message: as these kids grow up and realize that their parents are not always going to be around to help them, they're forced to take responsibility for their own lives. Some people, like Veronica and Logan, can handle this; others, like poor Cassidy, simply can't.
Overall I would say season two is not quite as coherent as season one, and a bit more ridiculous, but some of the highs were higher. I am not yet remotely tired of this character, her world, and her show, and I'm looking forward to jumping into season three (after a few week's break).
I can't agree at all. The mystery is rather poor for the most part. It's too interested in misdirects and random shit thrown around. And while the perpetrator ultimately makes sense, his actions don't and his connections to the trial and last seasons rape episode are really fucking dumb.
Overall, it feels really soapy, with random characters having silly shit happen to them solely for the purpose of upsetting the status quo. There's highlights in there, but the season as a whole falls apart.
I felt about S2-3 the way I feel about every season of Supernatural since S5. It's just bonus. If Veronica Mars was a single season and didn't get renewed it would have been that rare strange perfect thing, and I loved it because it ended, had a clear arc and mystery solved, etc. Amazing. The moment when they see whose face pops up on the video with Lily was just utterly chilling, and the fight with Keith at the end felt so brutal... There's no way another season could do that again. But they still had good moments.
I think describing season 2 as melodramatic is actually right on point. The biggest problem I had with the season was the awful teen dating shit that was just boring and overwrought. I loved season 1 for the investigations, Veronica and her dad interacting, and Veronica and Wallace. Season two had her, Logan, and Duncan being just boring and teen like.
I think describing season 2 as melodramatic is actually right on point. The biggest problem I had with the season was the awful teen dating shit that was just boring and overwrought. I loved season 1 for the investigations, Veronica and her dad interacting, and Veronica and Wallace. Season two had her, Logan, and Duncan being just boring and teen like.
I really quite liked Logan and Veronica. It's probably the first (and so far I think the only) show where I had any 'shipping-tendencies. Those two were just a lot of fun together.
I have always hated Logan in this show, and I always will. His only shining moment comes in Season 3
After Mercer is arrested for being the rapist and drugging Veronica again when he smashes the cop car windshield to get arrested and the shot ends with him showing up in the same cell as Mercer.
I think describing season 2 as melodramatic is actually right on point. The biggest problem I had with the season was the awful teen dating shit that was just boring and overwrought. I loved season 1 for the investigations, Veronica and her dad interacting, and Veronica and Wallace. Season two had her, Logan, and Duncan being just boring and teen like.
The curse of the CW.
Yep, agreed, and I get why they did it but it was just super annoying. They kept it toned down to a reasonable level in season 1 and just overdid it in 2.
And, Joe, I liked them as a couple but they kept breaking them up and having them get back together ad nauseum. Got annoying.
I think the problem most writers seem to have is that they think if building to a relationship can be turned into a plot, they have to turn the relationship itself into a plot as well. Which in most cases means breaking up, getting back together etc. When in fact, once characters end up in a relationship together that relationship should cease to be plot-relevant. It's just a change in status quo and not a plot point.
I don't think it was the CW at all. The problem wasn't "teenage romance" or anything, it was that at some point, the writers felt they had to make something happen. Cause relationships that come into existence and then just slowly develop over time like real ones often do is boring or whatever.
So they come up with insane, soap-operaey plots to move pieces around in circles to keep "stuff" happening. Or cause they want to get X and Y together, but X is with Z right now and Z is boring, so we get the most ridiculous plot ever.
There's silly melodrama all over S2. S3 is mostly better on this account actually, mostly letting Logan and Veronica's differing personalities bounce off one another self-destructively. I think Logan was probably correct at the end of S2 when he talks to Veronica about it:
Logan: I thought our story was epic, you know, you and me. Veronica: Epic how? Logan:Spanning years and continents. Lives ruined, bloodshed. EPIC.
Honestly, with the type of people they both are? That sounds about right.
ComradebotLord of DinosaursHouston, TXRegistered Userregular
SQUEEEE Krysten Ritter!
And holy crap, a Hellmouth reference.
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Dr. Flamingo49 Gilded Disc Perceives the SunRegistered Userregular
Ooh a trailer-type thing... WHAT DO YOU MEAN YOU DON'T REALLY DO THAT ANYMORE!?
I remember reading about that potential 4th season and dumping all the non-Veronica characters. For a moment I thought I would have been okay with that, but then I remembered Keith Mars.
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Yeah, for all his occasional issues, Duncan's Dad seems like a decent enough guy.
The chase/action sequence was tense and thrilling, all the more so because the show rarely went to that well, and because it played well that everybody was all of a sudden really scared for her as she was leaving the party. I wish Veronica had been a little more active during it (although the box is a decent symbol for what she's been going through). She does, at least, get to make the very badass call to crash her car immediately. "Keep driving." "No, fuck that." swerve
I also really liked that they gave the Lily hallucinations closure; at least in Veronica's mind, her spirit is at peace.
Oh, and Veronica got her hug! The scene where she signs the papers and finds out about her parentage felt really, really good.
So who's at the door? I'm hoping it's Logan, and that Weevil pulled him off that ledge. Honestly, Logan's character arc this season has been really, truly excellent. Thinking about it, it may be the only real arc of the season--I'm not sure Veronica changes all that much throughout the story, other than just coming to a greater understanding of her past. I need to think more on this; the problem is that V goes back and forth on certain things, and it's more about her dealing with her social situation, her trust issues, and her relationships with several people than it is her actually growing. Case in point, she was wrong to suspect Logan (on, I think, fairly shaky evidence; I get that she was acting on the combination of the rape investigation and the hidden cameras and all that, but if nothing else, Keith should have slowed her down), but right to decide not to trust her mother.
Maybe that is growth, though... Veronica starts the season having pushed away (or ran from) virtually everybody, and from one perspective, the show has been a series of object lessons in keeping your friends close and your enemies at quip's length... and learning how to tell one from the other. As she says early on, "The hero is the one who stays, the villain is the one who splits." Maybe it's time for her to stop being the villain and start being the hero.
But does she? I guess I'll find out in season 2...
Overall, that was an excellent season of television, one that really grew as it went along and worked in some very nice organic developments. It also gets major props for doing a mostly well-written mystery with a surprising but satisfying solution. (I say mostly because the way the show doled out information got pretty wonky at times, in terms of facts about the case I wish I had known or been told more clearly--down to Veronica for some reason not knowing what exactly the murder weapon was. I mean, come on.)
Anyway! I can't wait to watch season 2... but I must, at least a few days. I need a sorbet or anything anyway, to give the season time to sink in. I have been meaning to finish Future Diary...
It was real good.
Wow, this is totally the opposite in my opinion. The second season's pacing is bad.
"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
I'm braced for a disappointing resolution since it seems to be regarded as poorer than the first season though...
the pieces just don't quite come together as neatly, yeah.
No, it's not bad. It's just not even close to as good as the first season.
The Very Special Episode about post 9-11 racism against Arabs is the series' low point.
What the fuck did they do to the opening credits and song?
Rob Thomas always thought it was too cheerful and didn't fit the noir style of the show.
If that's the same episode that I am very vaguely recalling, at least it was believable.
Yeah, the whole second season mystery (the whole second season really) is kind of a mess.
If the season has a weakness structurally, it's that the PCH/Fitzgerald plot never coheres into anything meaningful to the overall story (and the same goes for Wallace's girl troubles--Jackie is kind of interesting, and it does good things for the Wallace/Veronica friendship, but she's never properly integrated into the group or the ongoing mystery).
The real problem with the season is how melodramatic it is. Nothing quite goes over the top, but it's definitely within spitting distance a number of times. Like any time Charisma Carpenter is on-screen. I'd add the way Duncan gets written off the show to that, but really I was just glad--he and Veronica have zero chemistry, and I think it was largely a mistake for the show to break up Logan and Veronica between seasons anyway.
Thematically, though, this season was even stronger than the first one (outside of the class issues, which are more of a backdrop here). If season one is essentially a compare and contrast between different sets of parental relationships and the effects they have on their children--one which ultimately argues that, for all of its problems, Keith and Veronica's relationship is the strongest one on the show and a large part of the reason Veronica is as awesome as she is--then season two asks its set of seniors to deal with parental abandonment in all its forms. This is where the show draws in some of its plot threads--Jackie is dealing with parental abandonment on both sides, Wallace has to deal with his absent father, Weevil abdicates responsibility over his gang, and Woody Goodman and Lamb represent the ways in which the town's authority figures fail to protect and serve their constituents. In deliberate contrast to the first season finale, this year's gets Keith out of the way for the coming danger--even appearing to kill him off, something which I definitely thought the show capable of at this point (but boy am I glad they didn't, that would have been so sad)--leaving Veronica to get herself out of trouble. It's a very poignant message: as these kids grow up and realize that their parents are not always going to be around to help them, they're forced to take responsibility for their own lives. Some people, like Veronica and Logan, can handle this; others, like poor Cassidy, simply can't.
Overall I would say season two is not quite as coherent as season one, and a bit more ridiculous, but some of the highs were higher. I am not yet remotely tired of this character, her world, and her show, and I'm looking forward to jumping into season three (after a few week's break).
Overall, it feels really soapy, with random characters having silly shit happen to them solely for the purpose of upsetting the status quo. There's highlights in there, but the season as a whole falls apart.
The curse of the CW.
{Twitter, Everybody's doing it. }{Writing and Story Blog}
And, Joe, I liked them as a couple but they kept breaking them up and having them get back together ad nauseum. Got annoying.
So they come up with insane, soap-operaey plots to move pieces around in circles to keep "stuff" happening. Or cause they want to get X and Y together, but X is with Z right now and Z is boring, so we get the most ridiculous plot ever.
There's silly melodrama all over S2. S3 is mostly better on this account actually, mostly letting Logan and Veronica's differing personalities bounce off one another self-destructively. I think Logan was probably correct at the end of S2 when he talks to Veronica about it:
Honestly, with the type of people they both are? That sounds about right.
also, over the last couple weeks, cast members have been putting out videos - most notably this one:
also Kristen Bell does not age. we might have to dunk her into water to see whether or not she is a witch.
Origin: KafkaAU B-Net: Kafka#1778
"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
http://bit.ly/11YSebT (my referal link)
Website: https://www.prizeo.com/prizes/kristen-bell/a-totally-platonic-date
Origin: KafkaAU B-Net: Kafka#1778
Looking awesome.
Origin: KafkaAU B-Net: Kafka#1778
And holy crap, a Hellmouth reference.
I remember reading about that potential 4th season and dumping all the non-Veronica characters. For a moment I thought I would have been okay with that, but then I remembered Keith Mars.