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The PA Report - EA earned hatred with poor games, lack of vision, and contempt for the audience, not

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Posts

  • CartiganCartigan Registered User regular
    edited April 2013
    @MIYA
    "Bank of America, sued by the Fed to the tune of 1 billion for unethical business practices. Paid out 3 billion. And that was just the most recent one."

    You are CLEARLY not getting it, just like SIDDOWN really isn't getting it. You are stuck on the OBJECTIVELY BAD COMPANY perspective and 100% ignoring the bad company to CUSTOMERS perspective that this poll is even about. What trees, I only see a forest.

    "The poll doesn't say "worst PR" or "worst customer service". It says "worst company". "
    Clearly you don't understand implications of the words "poll" and "public." The company with the worst PR IS the worst company.
    If you don't like it, vote for someone else. It's a public poll, you see.

    You being clearly biased in your support of EA by insulting gamers makes its own suggestions about your ACTUAL concerns in this matter.

    Cartigan on
  • SiddownSiddown Registered User regular
    Cartigan wrote:
    this poll is about "companies that have god awful customer relations."

    Actually, that's what you think it's about. I checked the "rules" and there are none. It's simply "here are the 32 companies that are up for Worst Company in America". No where does it mention "customer relations".

    This is an open poll that people from anywhere can be answering, so just because you think it's about customer relations doesn't mean that's what it's about.

    Also, looking at the full record, the fact that Apple almost lost to AT&T shows you how silly these results are.

  • CartiganCartigan Registered User regular
    edited April 2013
    @siddown
    "Actually, that's what you think it's about. I checked the "rules" and there are none. It's simply "here are the 32 companies that are up for Worst Company in America". No where does it mention "customer relations"."

    I see you don't understand the implications of "public" and "poll" either.

    Cartigan on
  • MiyaMiya Registered User regular
    @Cartigan

    But I don't support EA.
    I just don't think they are worse than companies who break the law or abuse employees.

    So what you're saying is that consumers are more concerned with a bad video game and micro transactions....than they are with theft, or pooping in a hallway.

    I am a gamer. I have been for as long as I remember. I don't suddenly stop being one.
    I simply disagree with the notion that a gaming company who just makes games....is on any level worse than Wal Mart or Bank of America.
    My lifestyle of gaming doesn't blind me to what "bad" really is.

  • CartiganCartigan Registered User regular
    edited April 2013
    @MIYA
    "But I don't support EA.
    I just don't think they are worse than companies who break the law or abuse employees."

    Congratulations, NO ONE IS DISAGREEING WITH YOU. You don't understand the poll. Simple fact. You are looking at the big picture and anything that includes the words "open poll" is not going to. You want an objective assessment? Go somewhere objective.

    "So what you're saying is that consumers are more concerned with a bad video game and micro transactions....than they are with theft, or pooping in a hallway."

    No, I'm saying consumers are more concerned with BAD CUSTOMER RELATIONS. Pay attention.

    Whether you support EA or not, you specifically and explicitly insulted gamers to their defense.

    Cartigan on
  • MiyaMiya Registered User regular
    @Cartigan

    If stealing people's money and providing unsafe conditions isn't bad customer relations, I don't know what is.

    I don't have to agree with all other gamers to be one myself. Not all gamers took this poll, or agree with the results.
    I didn't insult gamers in general. I insulted people who agree with the notion that EA is the worst company in America.

  • CartiganCartigan Registered User regular
    @MIYA
    "If stealing people's money and providing unsafe conditions isn't bad customer relations, I don't know what is."

    Since the latter has to deal with employees and not customers, I can only agree with you.

  • anathosanathos Registered User regular
    @Cartigan The "unsafe conditions" was a reference to the cruise incident, which does have to do with customers.

  • MiyaMiya Registered User regular
    @Cartigan

    Huh...so the unsafe conditions on the Carnival cruise only affected employees?

  • CartiganCartigan Registered User regular
    edited April 2013
    I stand corrected on that then.
    But yes, you are still clearly being obtuse on what customer relations is.

    EDIT: Let me put it this way. Carnival offered people on that cruise vouchers for another cruise. A half-ass corporate measure to be sure but EA CEO Moore accused people of HOMOPHOBIA for voting them worst company in America. You tell me what bad customer relations is.

    Cartigan on
  • anathosanathos Registered User regular
    @Cartigan That is absolutely not what he said. He said "This week, we’re seeing posts on conservative web sites urging people to protest our LGBT policy by voting EA the Worst Company in America." Is that a false statement?

  • Thanatos2kThanatos2k Registered User regular
    edited April 2013
    @Miya "But companies such as that were put together. Carnival cruise lines was on the list. So you're saying that making a bad game is worse than having to crap in a hall way for a week while you are stranded on a boat?"

    One cruise out of how many last year? I mean, they didn't WANT to lose power on the ship. There was an accident. They didn't handle it especially poorly, it was just a bad situation all around.

    Meanwhile, EA intentionally creates bad situations with every game then scoffs at and lies to their own customers about it.

    Carnival was repentant. EA says #dealwithit.

    " If making some crappy games makes EA worse than companies who break the law or abuse employees, then maybe people should re-evaluate their standards for "worst"."

    Forgotten the EA spouse incident so quickly have you? EA does abuse their own employees, and their development practices haven't changed.

    " If stealing people's money and providing unsafe conditions isn't bad customer relations, I don't know what is."

    EA has done that too. Remember the whole "for refunds please contact - oh wait, no refunds! Also if you try to get a refund from Amazon YOU'RE BANNED!" part of the Sim City launch? EA steals people's money too.

    "Also, looking at the full record, the fact that Apple almost lost to AT&T shows you how silly these results are. "

    Why? Apple is a terrible company who sells overpriced products, employs sweatshop labor, and pushes standards that are bad for every industry it gets into. iTunes is the Origin of the music industry.

    Thanatos2k on
  • CartiganCartigan Registered User regular
    @anathos
    Wow, really? You are going to try that? REALLY?

    You know what? Ok, I'll play your little game.
    True, that is what he said. Now, YOU, explain to me how that does not mean that Moore is accusing his detractors of being homophobes. And you know what, why don't you go a step beyond and identify those sites and conservatives pushing their bigoted followers to vote against EA in this poll because they have gay characters.

  • anathosanathos Registered User regular
    @Cartigan He's saying that some (but not all) of the people voting for EA are doing so for reasons of homophobia. If you're not one of the one's doing that, THEN HE'S NOT TALKING ABOUT YOU.

    You know this, you're just looking for any angle from which to attack EA because you don't like the company for other, completely unrelated reasons.

  • CartiganCartigan Registered User regular
    edited April 2013
    @anathos
    Yes, he clearly is. He is poisoning the well. THAT'S THE ENTIRE POINT OF MAKING THAT STATEMENT
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_the_well

    By suggesting that an unknown number of people voting against EA are doing so because they are homophobic bigots (also a claim neither he nor you are backing up by identifying WHAT sites these are making the encouragements), you discredit the entire group because who knows how many votes are "valid" not liking EA.

    His other statements are equally as insulting to the intelligence of the listeners but themselves go back to prove that EA is a douche company.

    Cartigan on
  • mrthewhitemrthewhite Registered User regular
    @CARTIGAN I've read this conversation and feel your pain.

    Further to the homophobia comments, the Consumerist said explicitly in their reply that they received NOT ONE nomination or post that hinted that LGBT characters were customer's concern with EA. Nor did anyone point to the cover art on Madden as the reason why.

    As per Moore's quote below:
    "In the past year, we have received thousands of emails and postcards protesting against EA for allowing players to create LGBT characters in our games. This week, we’re seeing posts on conservative web sites urging people to protest our LGBT policy by voting EA the Worst Company in America.
    That last one is particularly telling. If that’s what makes us the worst company, bring it on. Because we're not caving on that."

    THIS implies he believes, or wants us to believe, that it's the tent pole of the campaign to label EA the worst company.

  • TubeTube Administrator, ClubPA admin
    If you can't make your point without the digital equivalent of CONSTANTLY SCREAMING it's time to take a step back from the keyboard. This applies to several of the people posting in this thread.

  • WangchangbackupWangchangbackup Registered User regular
    I actually though they made huge strides with the new Madden game. The redesigned engine and updated controls are the first major change to the series since about 2002. It's the first one I've ever thought was fun enough to buy, and I'm about as big a football fan as you'll ever meet. But that's about the last thing EA has improved in the last five years. Mass Effect 2 was better than the first in many ways, but really set the series on a different path, to the point where it almost feels like 1 and 3 didn't even occur in the same Universe. Same goes for Dragon Age, where 2 is just a generic beat-em-up with some window dressing pulled out of Origins.

  • CartiganCartigan Registered User regular
    @tube
    So when are you going to invent italics and bold to use in these comment sections instead of threatening to ban/having banned people for using capital letters for emphasis?

  • TubeTube Administrator, ClubPA admin
    edited April 2013
    @Cartigan, no one has been threatened with anything. Any issues you have with moderation can be taken up through the private messaging system. Since this is at least the third time you've been told this I'm sure I won't need to say it again.

    Tube on
  • Thanatos2kThanatos2k Registered User regular
    I'm pretty sure that he meant that ALL CAPS is not shouting, it's emphasizing, because this commenting system has no way to emphasize text without making it ALL CAPS.

  • Ben KucheraBen Kuchera Registered User staff
    Cartigan, please take a break from this thread in general. It's turned into you just arguing with everyone else, and when personal disagreements overwhelm the discussion, it's time to shut them down. I appreciate.

  • spoonybard.hahsspoonybard.hahs Registered User regular
    @Thanatos2k

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/09/foreclosure-review-errors_n_3045941.html

    I'm a member of BoA as well. And just because things are great for me (*knocks on wood* so far) does not mean I will stick my head in the sand and ignore how BoA is actively ruining peoples lives. These are not just clerical or electronic errors; bank personnel have been changing loan agreements after a person has reviewed and signed it. Papers are purposefully being misfiled. Whole loan payments have gone missing. The bank doesn't care what evidence a person has; you owe them money.

    A $500 "mistake" can cost a person (or family) thousands of dollars of their own money to rectify, their livelihoods, and even their jobs. Thousands of peoples' credit ratings are a now destroyed, making it impossible to move on after what should have been a quick fix (or better yet: something that should not have happened in the first place). All because Bank of America is greedy and does not care about their customers. Or the law, for that matter.

    I don't know what's going on in your head that allows you to justify how a company that you gave $60 to and got a shitty game from is worse than a company that is breaking the law. EA is indeed a terrible company. But EA is not using its vast cash reserves to grease the legal wheel. EA has not been allowed to become "too big to fail," thus allowing them to get away with murder.

  • MiyaMiya Registered User regular
    @Thanatos2K

    Sorry, I see a lot more egregious offenses from a lot of other companies for me to be convinced that EA is anywhere near the top offender.
    Monsanto. Exxon. Wal Mart. Bank of America.
    Those companies do real harm to both the environment and people's lives. As in ruin lives. Not getting your money back from a transaction is super crappy. Being banned is annoying. But it doesn't ruin your life. And it is no where near as awful as the poop cruise.....no matter how contrite Carnival was afterwards.

    I don't agree with them, and yeah...they sure have done some crappy things. Are they a good company? No.
    But, EA is not the worst. Not even close.

  • lettucemodelettucemode Registered User regular
    edited April 2013
    If I had the ability to get back the lives and welfares of those screwed over by banks and oil and insurance companies, and all I had to do was accept always-on DRM in my games and consoles, day 1 DLC, microtransactions in everything, etc, I'd do it in a heartbeat.

    The only thing that EA winning Worst Company really demonstrates is that the majority of the voters identify as gamers. Gamers who haven't had a loved one die because they couldn't afford treatment, gamers who haven't lost their livelihood because the bay they fish from is now full of oil, gamers who maybe see this kind of stuff on the news but SimCity just came out and they spent money on it and it was crap and they'll be damned if they can't get their revenge somehow.

    lettucemode on
  • SiddownSiddown Registered User regular
    edited April 2013
    Thanatos2k wrote:
    One cruise out of how many last year? I mean, they didn't WANT to lose power on the ship. There was an accident. They didn't handle it especially poorly, it was just a bad situation all around.

    The thing is, I don't think customers care about what the "want" is vs. the results. Did Exxon want to have a 3 million gallon (speculated) spill in Arkansas? Clearly not, but it doesn't mean they weren't negligent in what caused it.

    EA doesn't sit in a dark room and think "how am I going to screw people over today". Take the Sim City fiasco, they didn't want that to happen no more than Exxon wanted the spill to happen. The difference is, when the Sim City issue happened, some people couldn't play a video game for a few hours, when the Exxon spill happened...well, we still don't know since they've somehow gotten the local and state police to ban reporters from the air space to even report on it.

    Your issues with EA seem very personal, like they are personally trying to ruin your day. Don't ever assume malice is involved when incompetence is the more likely answer.

    The silly thing about polls like this is all it takes is one person posting on GiantBomb, 1Up or any other large gaming site and it gets flooded with votes for EA. If anyone really thinks it's the worst company in America, they either have a complete lack of perspective or live in a very sheltered environment where the single worst thing that ever happened to them was not being able to log into Sim City for a weekend.

    Siddown on
  • Thanatos2kThanatos2k Registered User regular
    edited April 2013
    "A $500 "mistake" can cost a person (or family) thousands of dollars of their own money to rectify, their livelihoods, and even their jobs. Thousands of peoples' credit ratings are a now destroyed, making it impossible to move on after what should have been a quick fix (or better yet: something that should not have happened in the first place). All because Bank of America is greedy and does not care about their customers. Or the law, for that matter."

    Again, how many of these errors are not corrected? Got a news story about any that were?

    "I don't know what's going on in your head that allows you to justify how a company that you gave $60 to and got a shitty game from is worse than a company that is breaking the law."

    They break the law, they get arrested. What EA is doing to gaming should be criminal.

    "Those companies do real harm to both the environment and people's lives. As in ruin lives. "

    I'll repeat, since not a single person has addressed this when I say it:

    Banks, Insurance Companies, Oil Companies and the like provide essential services for hundreds of millions of people in America. On the whole they do far more good than harm.

    EA could disappear tomorrow and no one's life would change.

    If the airline companies, oil companies, or banks disappeared (even just one of the large ones), your life would turn into a nightmare.

    "EA doesn't sit in a dark room and think "how am I going to screw people over today"."

    Oh, but they do.



    Remember?

    Thanatos2k on
  • MiyaMiya Registered User regular
    @Thanatos2K

    So what you are saying is that EA doesn't really matter. So how are they the worst company in America, when they are providing a non-essential *luxury* service?
    No one dies from lack of video games.

    As to the whole oil, insurance and bank thing doing more good than bad...
    Tell that to the people in Arkansas, the gulf coast, and Alaska (among other places)who have lost everything (homes, businesses and livelihoods).
    Tell that to the people who lost their entire life savings, or gone into debt for thousands because of BoA.
    Tell that to the millions Americans who skip routine medical care because of costs, or those who get claims denied for lifesaving procedures.
    Tell it to the people who don't have insurance because of the cost.

    Now compare that to what happens when EA messes up.
    People can't log into a video game.
    People get banned from a site.
    People lose 60 bucks of fun money.
    People don't enjoy a video game.

    Does it suck? Sure, in the realm of hobbies and luxury time....sure it does.
    It's like going to a movie and having some jerk talk the whole time, and you don't get your money back. Ruined leisure time sure is annoying. I was pretty ticked that Prometheus was so bad, but I don't think Ridley Scott is the worst human being on the face of the planet.
    It doesn't even remotely qualify them as the worst company in America when you compare it to companies who do real harm.

    ***** What EA is doing to gaming should be criminal.*****
    But it isn't. People are trying to make the case that EA is worse than real criminal companies, and it just seems so absurd.
    It really does seem as though those who are so against EA, don't really have a grasp on what a real problem/hardship is in the grand scheme of things.

  • SiddownSiddown Registered User regular
    This is bordering on the absurd now (actually, that started about 60 comments ago). If people want to believe that EA is worse than companies like DeBeers, Blackwater, BoA, etc., all the power to them. This is like a Poe's Law experiment at this point.

  • Thanatos2kThanatos2k Registered User regular
    "So what you are saying is that EA doesn't really matter. So how are they the worst company in America, when they are providing a non-essential *luxury* service?"

    It's the Worst Company in America, not "Company That May Have the Worst Effect on People" or "Company That Has Done The Worst Thing to at least one person in America".

    Your definition of "worst" appears to be different than everyone else who's voting. Don't get mad.

    "As to the whole oil, insurance and bank thing doing more good than bad...
    Tell that to the people in Arkansas, the gulf coast, and Alaska (among other places)who have lost everything (homes, businesses and livelihoods)."

    They'd be far worse off if there were no banks. Or if there were no airplanes. Or if they couldn't fill up their cars with gas.

    Again, picking a very small subset of bad does not offset the overwhelming amount of good.

  • TubeTube Administrator, ClubPA admin
    I think you may have reached an impasse.

  • MiyaMiya Registered User regular
    Thanatos...clearly we do have different definitions.

    I don't think anger is the right word. I'm not mad. Confused and shocked? Yep, that is much more accurate.
    I can honestly say I am completely lost as to why EA is worse than all the other companies who do real harm. It just doesn't even compare.
    Bad video games vs environmental disaster. Nope. Not seeing how video games is winning that battle.

  • mrthewhitemrthewhite Registered User regular
    I think the subject of this argument answers all your questions.

    It's an internet poll, not a poll of the country, not a census, an internet poll. Not only that, but an internet poll on the Consumerist site.

    the audience who participated were people who are on the internet, are aware of the consumerist through one avenue or another and took the time to answer.

    You bring up all the people who were hurt by banks, oil companies etc. and ask how EA is worse. The answer is, either the number of negatively affected people is smaller, or they just didn't vote. It's really that simple.

    I've not been affected by the banks or oil companies for example. Neither has anyone I know. Sure I read about what they do, I read the news just like i read the news about EA but I haven't hand any of the life shattering experiences that you mention, nor has anyone I know and the reality is that if people aren't overtly effected by a company or know someone who was they are not likely to vote in a poll against that company regardless of what they might read in the news or forums.

    And at the end of the day, this is an opinion poll, so facts don't matter, laws broken don't matter, lawsuits don't matter, criminal charges don't matter. IN AN OPINION POLL ONLY FEELINGS MATTER.

  • metroidkillahmetroidkillah Local Bunman Free Country, USARegistered User regular
    @mrthewhite: I think you are unfortunately correct. And I can understand where some "defenders" of EA's win are coming from- the number of individual people demonstrably affected by BoA or Exxon are probably fewer and the companies' "badness" usually less purposeful. And, as you said, those whose lives have been damaged are not interested in some silly internet poll.

    After all, SimCity sold over 1 million in the first two weeks. And how long did it take to get the game running properly? That's a lot of people pissed off in such a short amount of time.

    I'm not a nice guy, I just play one in real life.
  • WhyroonWhyroon Registered User regular
    Gosh, I really couldn't agree more with just about every word. You only have to look at the state of television to see what happens when you start to believe that that which is most profitable is not only the right thing to do but, god help us, the best thing for consumer...

    I know it's a drop in the ocean but just for the record, as someone who has purchased every PC incarnation of Battlefield since the original and for whom BF3 Premium was the very last straw, I will not be buying, or free to playing, or microtransacting, or in any way spending any time or money on Battlefield 4.

  • BigZ7337BigZ7337 Registered User new member
    That was an amazing article, thanks for your insight. :)

  • teknoarcanistteknoarcanist Registered User regular
    FINALLY someone put every angry comment I've ever written beneath an EA article into a coherent editorial. Well said, Ben. Thank you.

  • brocadebrocade Registered User regular
    An Exxon pipeline burst last week in Arkansas. Exxon had local law enforcement threaten journalists trying to cover the story with arrest. (http://www.motherjones.com/blue-marble/2013/04/reporters-say-exxon-impeding-spill-coverage-arkansas)

    So no, EA isn't the worst company in America.

  • TrueflightTrueflight Registered User new member
    I can't even remember the last EA title that I spent/Wasted money on. It was either Battlefield 2 or Need for Speed Undercover. I refuse to waste my money on the garbage they put out these days and expect people to buy just because it says EA on it. They have been going downhill for years now, and it seems they always find some way to get even lower. It would take an awful lot for me to even consider a game from EA anytime in the near future.

  • AshtonLCAshtonLC Registered User new member
    edited November 2013
    Until people start complaining in the language companies care about - money - it is foolish to expect them to change their behavior. If you have a problem with them, don't buy their stuff. Then they'll pay attention. It sucks if a company doesn't foresee that and loses your business because then by extension you lose what could be a quality product if the company stopped being so short sighted, but that's life.

    As for it being worse than companies that have massively disastrous effects when they fail, I agree with Miya entirely. I have no idea the actual numbers of those harmed by various companies, but I don't think the amount of people harmed by a company should be the defining factor. What should matter more is how much harm was done by the companies (depth vs. quantity) and their intentions when dealing with potentially harmful matters.

    I mean, which is worse - a company that slaps a million people in the face or a company that kills one person? To me the answer is obvious and it's not the one that slaps a million people.

    AshtonLC on
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