So, in TNG we have a literally omnipotent, omniscient entity showing up and performing miracles left, right and center, but the next day Picard will remark in that fanfic episode "ugh, you clowns still believe in God?". I feel like Picard should be far more open minded and adopt an agnostic attitude here, for all he knows there's someone who is to Q as Q is to us, 'cept that guy is the Christian merciful & forgiving God so he doesn't come around to indulge in random whims of cruelty every few weeks.
You don't need God to be a bigger force to the Q, a single Q could have done all that stuff in their sleep. Trek's universe also has many "deities" who aren't magical beings, powerful beings worshiped by misunderstood natives like that super computer Kirk found, and arrogant dicks who deserve to get their ass kicked like Apollo.
Ok, so rewatching "Silicon Avatar" I kinda disagree with Picard, he compares the crystalline entity to a sperm whale eating crayfish and that it has a right to exist. And ok as a life form it does have a right to exist, but the problem is it isn't eating crayfish, it's eating sentient beings. This thing eats civilisations to survive.
I'm not sure given that fact that he's right to fight its corner. There such a thing as keeping a mind so open your brain falls out.
As mentioned above, they hadn't even gotten as far as actually communicating with it before it whatshername destroyed it, so there wasn't even a chance to find out if there were any other options or possibility of negotiation.
Well I know it isn't very Star Trek, but even Riker Pointed out, it had already killed tens of thousands of people, hundreds of thousands maybe possibly more, it had wiped out at least 11 Fed colonies and god knows how many others the Feds didn't know about. Presumably had it had every intention of continuing to do so. Had the Enterprise missed it's shot or become one more victim while trying to talk to it more lives would have been at risk. Instead of taking that relevant point on board Picard decided to accuse Riker (who was doing his job by pointing this out) of indulging in a spot of revenge lust.
It's a high aim to negotiate with it but frankly the whole "it isn't evil, it's feeding" argument was dumb, you might as well say "the borg aren't evil they're just destroying your free will and harvesting your body as resources for the collective". Yeah there isn't literal evil intent, the borg are a similar kind of "force of nature just doing what it does" type affair but that hardly matters if you're being killed/assimilated. You don't think "at least my life energy is being harvested to keep this beautiful creature alive" as you're getting absorbed.
For me it's another example of star trek making a high minded point but doing it in such a dumb way that it makes the point they were trying to make look stupid.
On the flip side, if Kirk and Spock could have figured out a way to destroy the probe in STIV, would they have bothered with the whole time travel thing?
Well yeah, they probably would have just killed it if hey could (Kirk even says the only reason they're doing the time travel shenanigans is because they can't destroy it), but the movie would have been a bit short.
Ok, so rewatching "Silicon Avatar" I kinda disagree with Picard, he compares the crystalline entity to a sperm whale eating crayfish and that it has a right to exist. And ok as a life form it does have a right to exist, but the problem is it isn't eating crayfish, it's eating sentient beings. This thing eats civilisations to survive.
I'm not sure given that fact that he's right to fight its corner. There such a thing as keeping a mind so open your brain falls out.
As mentioned above, they hadn't even gotten as far as actually communicating with it before it whatshername destroyed it, so there wasn't even a chance to find out if there were any other options or possibility of negotiation.
Well I know it isn't very Star Trek, but even Riker Pointed out, it had already killed tens of thousands of people, hundreds of thousands maybe possibly more, it had wiped out at least 11 Fed colonies and god knows how many others the Feds didn't know about. Presumably had it had every intention of continuing to do so. Had the Enterprise missed it's shot or become one more victim while trying to talk to it more lives would have been at risk. Instead of taking that relevant point on board Picard decided to accuse Riker (who was doing his job by pointing this out) of indulging in a spot of revenge lust.
It's a high aim to negotiate with it but frankly the whole "it isn't evil, it's feeding" argument was dumb, you might as well say "the borg aren't evil they're just destroying your free will and harvesting your body as resources for the collective". Yeah there isn't literal evil intent, the borg are a similar kind of "force of nature just doing what it does" type affair but that hardly matters if you're being killed/assimilated. You don't think "at least my life energy is being harvested to keep this beautiful creature alive" as you're getting absorbed.
For me it's another example of star trek making a high minded point but doing it in such a dumb way that it makes the point they were trying to make look stupid.
I don't know, I remember watching that episode and thinking Picard had a good point. The crystalline entity wasn't immediately threatening to consume anyone, they had figured out what attracted it to the colonies, knew how to defend against it, and had started to communicate with it, but needed time to decipher the nature of the communication. At that point, it wasn't really a kill or be killed moment. Especially coming close to that episode where the positions of the crew and the aliens were exactly reversed (that episode where terraformers were inadvertently killing crystal beings in the soil without having a clue that they were wiping out a sentient alien civilization in the process), I don't think it was handled particularly dumbly.
The borg at least knew they were wiping out civilizations, because they took the effort to communicate that to their victims - who they understood were capable of understanding communication, but the crystalline entity was so very alien that it is quite plausible that it didn't even realize that the human matter it was consuming alongside the plant matter was of any appreciable difference.
Ok, so rewatching "Silicon Avatar" I kinda disagree with Picard, he compares the crystalline entity to a sperm whale eating crayfish and that it has a right to exist. And ok as a life form it does have a right to exist, but the problem is it isn't eating crayfish, it's eating sentient beings. This thing eats civilisations to survive.
I'm not sure given that fact that he's right to fight its corner. There such a thing as keeping a mind so open your brain falls out.
As mentioned above, they hadn't even gotten as far as actually communicating with it before it whatshername destroyed it, so there wasn't even a chance to find out if there were any other options or possibility of negotiation.
Well I know it isn't very Star Trek, but even Riker Pointed out, it had already killed tens of thousands of people, hundreds of thousands maybe possibly more, it had wiped out at least 11 Fed colonies and god knows how many others the Feds didn't know about. Presumably had it had every intention of continuing to do so. Had the Enterprise missed it's shot or become one more victim while trying to talk to it more lives would have been at risk. Instead of taking that relevant point on board Picard decided to accuse Riker (who was doing his job by pointing this out) of indulging in a spot of revenge lust.
It's a high aim to negotiate with it but frankly the whole "it isn't evil, it's feeding" argument was dumb, you might as well say "the borg aren't evil they're just destroying your free will and harvesting your body as resources for the collective". Yeah there isn't literal evil intent, the borg are a similar kind of "force of nature just doing what it does" type affair but that hardly matters if you're being killed/assimilated. You don't think "at least my life energy is being harvested to keep this beautiful creature alive" as you're getting absorbed.
For me it's another example of star trek making a high minded point but doing it in such a dumb way that it makes the point they were trying to make look stupid.
The point Picard was making is that if they had a chance of establishing communication and perhaps normalizing relations with the creature, then they should take that chance over simply destroying it.
I don't see how that is objectionable. If it was an alien empire wiping out Federation colonies, of course the Federation would attempt diplomacy instead of destroying them in retaliation. The fact that the Crystalline Entity could be considered monstrous doesn't change that.
Hell, I'd argue that the aliens deserve to be destroyed more than the Crystalline Entity, since what they would be doing would be out of conscious intent instead of natural instinct.
Oh, and for a interesting change of perspective, consider the silicon microbrain that tried to destroy the Enterprise in retaliation for the human colonist's unaware slaughter with the laser drill. Humanity is the Crystalline Entity and the microbrain is the Enterprise.
Jephery on
}
"Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
The argument isn't that we should be OK with the Crystalline Entity killing people, it's that the Entity doesn't know that it's killing people, it's just sucking up plant life off a planet that happens to have been settled by tiny things it's never seen. If you can learn to communicate with it, you might be able to persuade it to leave colonized worlds alone, or feed it artificially.
And they did start communicating to it, so there was no point in killing it at that time other then revenge.
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Mr_Rose83 Blue Ridge Protects the HolyRegistered Userregular
Also, what if it wasn't unique? Maybe one CE has a territory a few hundred star systems wide and does a circuit every couple hundred thousand years, occasionally meeting up with the CE's from neighbouring territories to exchange gossip and mate? Are they organised enough and social enough to regard the destruction of one of their own as hostile and/or worth retaliation? Or at least investigation?
Who knows?
Not the federation! That fool blew up the only source of this information they had access to…
I think the Crystalline Entity episode was a good opportunity to bring up the TOS episode "The Devil in the Dark." The miners in that episode inadvertently killed lots of baby Hortas and almost destroyed the entire species. I'm guessing that none of the miners were tried for second degree murder. What was done was done and nothing could be gained from punishing the miners. All they can do is try to rectify the mistake they made. Picard could have made a much better argument if he had linked the Crystalline Entity's actions to the actions of the miners in "The Devil in the Dark."
Also, there were some more practical concerns they could have addressed. They had no idea if the Crystalline Entity was the only one of its kind or what would happen if they killed it. For all they know, killing it would draw others of its kind.
For me it's another example of star trek making a high minded point but doing it in such a dumb way that it makes the point they were trying to make look stupid.
I just can't really fathom how you managed to reach any of the conclusions you put in your post. They literally make no sense at all.
For me it's another example of star trek making a high minded point but doing it in such a dumb way that it makes the point they were trying to make look stupid.
I just can't really fathom how you managed to reach any of the conclusions you put in your post. They literally make no sense at all.
They probably hang out with those Jelly Fish from Farpoint.
I'm not sure if you're joking or not, but from hearing talk about STO, I think that's something that happens.
Not in STO, but in one of the Titan novels the Farpoint jellyfish are ancient enemies of the crystalline entities, and eventually return after fleeing the galactic dead zone where the entities had destroyed all life. The Titan achieved a peaceful coexistence between the two and a humanoid race in the dead zone, but they just kind of ignored the whole "eating planets" thing and just asked kindly if they'd maybe ask first or something.
As for STO, their take on the CE is pretty simplistic even by STO standards, but does make a certain amount of sense:
The Tholians (who the CE can't eat because they're mineral based) have figured out how to communicate with them, and made the same deal with one that Lore did: They lead it to rich food sources, and in exchange those food sources are the Tholians' enemies.
The Tholians are pissed that we blew up the ISS Odyssey after they stole it, and I guess just giving Alpha Centauri the Omarion Nebula treatment wasn't their style.
Oh please, all you have to say is "Teleportation is just a 3d photocopier that kills the original" and you'll have a whole new thread filled with nerdetry.
Oh please, all you have to say is "Teleportation is just a 3d photocopier that kills the original" and you'll have a whole new thread filled with nerdetry.
Don't need a new thread, the old one is still around.
It's less heated than I remember. Also I thought it had been locked. Maybe my memories were teleported away.
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Gabriel_Pitt(effective against Russian warships)Registered Userregular
Oh please, all you have to say is "Teleportation is just a 3d photocopier that kills the original" and you'll have a whole new thread filled with nerdetry.
Don't need a new thread, the old one is still around.
It's less heated than I remember. Also I thought it had been locked. Maybe my memories were teleported away.
Shit, we got a transcription error.
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PolarisI am powerless against the sky.Registered Userregular
Season 5 of TNG popped up on UK netflix. Watched the highlights. Finished off with The Inner Light. I'm very upset with the large amount of onions being chopped in my vicinity.
Oh my god you guys Equinox Part II is fucking insane.
Like, legitimately, I don't understand how no one on the bridge shot Janeway. At the very least Tuvok & Chakotay should have just up and relieved her of command.
I think this is the point where I legitimately lose all respect for the show. It wasn't good, really, before this, but it was fun if you could manage to ignore stuff like the fact that they fired their entire complement of torpedos in season 5 alone. Even Neelix hasn't been that irritating since Kes left; he's like a less-interesting Rom, in that he's generally kind of an idiot but somehow sometimes manages to bumble into being competent (although obviously far short of Rom's plot-demanded genius.) But there's just no way anyone with half a brain in their heads can accept the crew listening to a goddamn thing Janeway says after this. There's no way she doesn't go on trial after this.
"The things that Janeway does in 'Equinox' don't work, because it's not about anything. She's not really grappling with her inner demons. She's not truly under the gun and suffering to the point where you can understand the decisions that she's made. She just gets kind of cranky and bitchy. She's having a bad day; these things keep popping around on the bridge, and we just keep cutting to shots of people grabbing phaser rifles and shooting, and hitting the red alert sign, over and over again. It doesn't signify anything. It's kind of emblematic of the show. There is a lot of potential, and there is a lot of surface sizzle going on in a lot of episodes, but to what end? What are we trying to do? What are we trying to touch in the audience? What are we trying to say? What are the things we are trying to explore? Why are we doing this episode? That was my fundamental question. When I would say, 'What was the point of doing the first part?' there was never a good answer for that. As a consequence, it was hard to come up with the ending to the show that has no beginning. You just start throwing things around. 'Two captains on different courses' at least sounds like an episode. At least there is something in it. Janeway will take something away from that experience, but not in the current version. What does she learn from that experience? I don't know how it's affected her. Chakotay, for all his trouble, he just goes back to work. There is no lingering problem with Janeway; there is no deeper issue coming to the fore. The show in general just kinda sucks frankly."
Can't say I disagree.
CycloneRanger on
+9
ComradebotLord of DinosaursHouston, TXRegistered Userregular
Oh please, all you have to say is "Teleportation is just a 3d photocopier that kills the original" and you'll have a whole new thread filled with nerdetry.
Having seen the episode of TNG recently where Barclay has transporter phobia, I'm gonna say that the original isn't killed and that's just something nerds with nothing better to nerd out about like to say to be contrarian.
Barclay teleports, and we see the whole process through his eyes start to finish. If he "died" there would've been a gap or some inconsistency between when Barclay 1 died and Barclay 2 was materialized well enough for cognitive thought.
Barclay's consciousness is unbroken, therefore Barclay didn't die.
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Mr_Rose83 Blue Ridge Protects the HolyRegistered Userregular
More than that, he, and others, was able to interact with other objects while in transport. Still not sure how they avoid the pain of having all your atoms ripped apart and rebuilt every time though?
Oh my god you guys Equinox Part II is fucking insane.
Like, legitimately, I don't understand how no one on the bridge shot Janeway. At the very least Tuvok & Chakotay should have just up and relieved her of command.
I think this is the point where I legitimately lose all respect for the show. It wasn't good, really, before this, but it was fun if you could manage to ignore stuff like the fact that they fired their entire complement of torpedos in season 5 alone. Even Neelix hasn't been that irritating since Kes left; he's like a less-interesting Rom, in that he's generally kind of an idiot but somehow sometimes manages to bumble into being competent (although obviously far short of Rom's plot-demanded genius.) But there's just no way anyone with half a brain in their heads can accept the crew listening to a goddamn thing Janeway says after this. There's no way she doesn't go on trial after this.
Oh my god you guys Equinox Part II is fucking insane.
Like, legitimately, I don't understand how no one on the bridge shot Janeway. At the very least Tuvok & Chakotay should have just up and relieved her of command.
I think this is the point where I legitimately lose all respect for the show. It wasn't good, really, before this, but it was fun if you could manage to ignore stuff like the fact that they fired their entire complement of torpedos in season 5 alone. Even Neelix hasn't been that irritating since Kes left; he's like a less-interesting Rom, in that he's generally kind of an idiot but somehow sometimes manages to bumble into being competent (although obviously far short of Rom's plot-demanded genius.) But there's just no way anyone with half a brain in their heads can accept the crew listening to a goddamn thing Janeway says after this. There's no way she doesn't go on trial after this.
What happens in the end of that again?
Captain Ransom has a change of heart, beams his crew to Voyager and sacrifices himself and his ship. Ransom's crew are integrated into Voyager's crew as ensigns and never heard from again. Janeway asks Chakotay why he didn't stage a mutiny and Chakotay points out that his balls are in a glass jar on Janeway's desk. The following week the ship is brand-new again, everything is forgotten, and none of this is ever mentioned again.
0
Mr_Rose83 Blue Ridge Protects the HolyRegistered Userregular
Was it just me r did the blond woman he was obsessing over in that little "private holodeck" headband thingy look an awful lot like Seven?
Speaking of, just saw Body of Proof for the first time the other day. As much as I like her, and as awesome as her character is, I'm sorry but Jeri Ryan is not enough to make me want to watch any more… now if we could get her onto NCIS or Rizzoli and Isles….
Was it just me r did the blond woman he was obsessing over in that little "private holodeck" headband thingy look an awful lot like Seven?
It was Seven. Which actually does make sense, since he was having her tortured and killed and felt guilty as shit about it. Her showing up was in his head, not the program.
Was it just me r did the blond woman he was obsessing over in that little "private holodeck" headband thingy look an awful lot like Seven?
It was Seven. Which actually does make sense, since he was having her tortured and killed and felt guilty as shit about it. Her showing up was in his head, not the program.
Indeed, in part 1 they explicitly said that the "private holodeck" thing was not advanced to generate people. In part 2 Seven starts showing up as a symptom of Ransom's guilt.
I think a lot of the blame lies with UPN. The network wasn't doing well and Voyager wasn't a cheap show. I think that at this point, the writers were basically just trying to come up with a lot of flashy episodes to impress the network execs and prevent the ratings from sliding down.
They did the wrong kind of meddling, more is definitely not the answer. Like, at one point when Voyager was no longer their top show, they looked at what WAS their top show (Smackdown), and saw its ratings were rock fucking solid.
Solution? Seven of Nine wrestles The Rock. He was actually credited as "The Rock," did the eyebrow thing, and used his signature moves. You know, just in case anyone still had the impression this was a different character and not the actual wrestler in glow-in-the-dark bondage gear with a forehead thingie. They were only missing a guy in a sequined cowboy hat doing ridiculously overacting the commentary.
Then they wanted real world bands to play in the Enterprise mess hall, and kept sticking wrestlers in guest star spots and crediting them as their WWE character names ("THE BIG SHOW as Orion Slaver #1" is an actual line from an Enterprise credit roll). They were good enough not to actually port their WWE personas into the episodes anymore after Tsunkatse, at least.
I shudder to think what could have happened if they were allowed to do "enough" meddling.
Hevach on
+1
CambiataCommander ShepardThe likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered Userregular
Him being credited as 'The Rock' was not at all unusual at that time period. He starred in movies then as "The Rock", odd as it seems.
But yeah that was a stupid idea in any case.
"If you divide the whole world into just enemies and friends, you'll end up destroying everything" --Nausicaa of the Valley of Wind
True, but the crediting wasn't really part of it - I don't see any particular problem with The Big Show and Tiny Lister being credited as their wrestling names, because neither one was actually *playing* their wrestler characters. It's symptomatic of what was going on with the higher ups at UPN, but just using those names is pretty innocuous compared to bringing every identifiable trait of The Rock's wrestling persona right down to the sport itself into Star Trek for the sake of cross-promotion.
Then they wanted real world bands to play in the Enterprise mess hall, and kept sticking wrestlers in guest star spots and crediting them as their WWE character names ("THE BIG SHOW as Orion Slaver #1" is an actual line from an Enterprise credit roll). They were good enough not to actually port their WWE personas into the episodes anymore after Tsunkatse, at least.
I shudder to think what could have happened if they were allowed to do "enough" meddling.
Seems like a fitting way to peace out this thread.
Did anyone else watch the part where Riker is like "You're outmanned, you're outgunned, you're outequipped. What else have you got?" and Worf is like "Guile", and think "So ... sonic boom?"?
Seems like a fitting way to peace out this thread.
Did anyone else watch the part where Riker is like "You're outmanned, you're outgunned, you're outequipped. What else have you got?" and Worf is like "Guile", and think "So ... sonic boom?"?
Posts
You don't need God to be a bigger force to the Q, a single Q could have done all that stuff in their sleep. Trek's universe also has many "deities" who aren't magical beings, powerful beings worshiped by misunderstood natives like that super computer Kirk found, and arrogant dicks who deserve to get their ass kicked like Apollo.
Well yeah, they probably would have just killed it if hey could (Kirk even says the only reason they're doing the time travel shenanigans is because they can't destroy it), but the movie would have been a bit short.
I don't know, I remember watching that episode and thinking Picard had a good point. The crystalline entity wasn't immediately threatening to consume anyone, they had figured out what attracted it to the colonies, knew how to defend against it, and had started to communicate with it, but needed time to decipher the nature of the communication. At that point, it wasn't really a kill or be killed moment. Especially coming close to that episode where the positions of the crew and the aliens were exactly reversed (that episode where terraformers were inadvertently killing crystal beings in the soil without having a clue that they were wiping out a sentient alien civilization in the process), I don't think it was handled particularly dumbly.
The borg at least knew they were wiping out civilizations, because they took the effort to communicate that to their victims - who they understood were capable of understanding communication, but the crystalline entity was so very alien that it is quite plausible that it didn't even realize that the human matter it was consuming alongside the plant matter was of any appreciable difference.
The point Picard was making is that if they had a chance of establishing communication and perhaps normalizing relations with the creature, then they should take that chance over simply destroying it.
I don't see how that is objectionable. If it was an alien empire wiping out Federation colonies, of course the Federation would attempt diplomacy instead of destroying them in retaliation. The fact that the Crystalline Entity could be considered monstrous doesn't change that.
Hell, I'd argue that the aliens deserve to be destroyed more than the Crystalline Entity, since what they would be doing would be out of conscious intent instead of natural instinct.
Oh, and for a interesting change of perspective, consider the silicon microbrain that tried to destroy the Enterprise in retaliation for the human colonist's unaware slaughter with the laser drill. Humanity is the Crystalline Entity and the microbrain is the Enterprise.
"Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
And they did start communicating to it, so there was no point in killing it at that time other then revenge.
Who knows?
Not the federation! That fool blew up the only source of this information they had access to…
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Also, there were some more practical concerns they could have addressed. They had no idea if the Crystalline Entity was the only one of its kind or what would happen if they killed it. For all they know, killing it would draw others of its kind.
Not in STO, but in one of the Titan novels the Farpoint jellyfish are ancient enemies of the crystalline entities, and eventually return after fleeing the galactic dead zone where the entities had destroyed all life. The Titan achieved a peaceful coexistence between the two and a humanoid race in the dead zone, but they just kind of ignored the whole "eating planets" thing and just asked kindly if they'd maybe ask first or something.
As for STO, their take on the CE is pretty simplistic even by STO standards, but does make a certain amount of sense:
The Tholians are pissed that we blew up the ISS Odyssey after they stole it, and I guess just giving Alpha Centauri the Omarion Nebula treatment wasn't their style.
Don't need a new thread, the old one is still around.
It's less heated than I remember. Also I thought it had been locked. Maybe my memories were teleported away.
Shit, we got a transcription error.
Like, legitimately, I don't understand how no one on the bridge shot Janeway. At the very least Tuvok & Chakotay should have just up and relieved her of command.
I think this is the point where I legitimately lose all respect for the show. It wasn't good, really, before this, but it was fun if you could manage to ignore stuff like the fact that they fired their entire complement of torpedos in season 5 alone. Even Neelix hasn't been that irritating since Kes left; he's like a less-interesting Rom, in that he's generally kind of an idiot but somehow sometimes manages to bumble into being competent (although obviously far short of Rom's plot-demanded genius.) But there's just no way anyone with half a brain in their heads can accept the crew listening to a goddamn thing Janeway says after this. There's no way she doesn't go on trial after this.
Can't say I disagree.
Having seen the episode of TNG recently where Barclay has transporter phobia, I'm gonna say that the original isn't killed and that's just something nerds with nothing better to nerd out about like to say to be contrarian.
Barclay teleports, and we see the whole process through his eyes start to finish. If he "died" there would've been a gap or some inconsistency between when Barclay 1 died and Barclay 2 was materialized well enough for cognitive thought.
Barclay's consciousness is unbroken, therefore Barclay didn't die.
Nintendo Network ID: AzraelRose
DropBox invite link - get 500MB extra free.
What happens in the end of that again?
Captain Ransom has a change of heart, beams his crew to Voyager and sacrifices himself and his ship. Ransom's crew are integrated into Voyager's crew as ensigns and never heard from again. Janeway asks Chakotay why he didn't stage a mutiny and Chakotay points out that his balls are in a glass jar on Janeway's desk. The following week the ship is brand-new again, everything is forgotten, and none of this is ever mentioned again.
Speaking of, just saw Body of Proof for the first time the other day. As much as I like her, and as awesome as her character is, I'm sorry but Jeri Ryan is not enough to make me want to watch any more… now if we could get her onto NCIS or Rizzoli and Isles….
Nintendo Network ID: AzraelRose
DropBox invite link - get 500MB extra free.
It was Seven. Which actually does make sense, since he was having her tortured and killed and felt guilty as shit about it. Her showing up was in his head, not the program.
Indeed, in part 1 they explicitly said that the "private holodeck" thing was not advanced to generate people. In part 2 Seven starts showing up as a symptom of Ransom's guilt.
Solution? Seven of Nine wrestles The Rock. He was actually credited as "The Rock," did the eyebrow thing, and used his signature moves. You know, just in case anyone still had the impression this was a different character and not the actual wrestler in glow-in-the-dark bondage gear with a forehead thingie. They were only missing a guy in a sequined cowboy hat doing ridiculously overacting the commentary.
Then they wanted real world bands to play in the Enterprise mess hall, and kept sticking wrestlers in guest star spots and crediting them as their WWE character names ("THE BIG SHOW as Orion Slaver #1" is an actual line from an Enterprise credit roll). They were good enough not to actually port their WWE personas into the episodes anymore after Tsunkatse, at least.
I shudder to think what could have happened if they were allowed to do "enough" meddling.
But yeah that was a stupid idea in any case.
http://art.penny-arcade.com/photos/215525222_physL-L-2.jpg
Seems like a fitting way to peace out this thread.
It's funny how Worf is much better at delivering zingers than actually fighting.
that was the most beautiful thing I ever saw
Did anyone else watch the part where Riker is like "You're outmanned, you're outgunned, you're outequipped. What else have you got?" and Worf is like "Guile", and think "So ... sonic boom?"?