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The PA Report - Dealing with being a woman and a comic book writer, and the fun that ensues

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Posts

  • BrewBrew Registered User regular
    I just want to know what the question about xenomorphs was.

    1st ever "Penny-Arcade Hero Academy Tournament" Toilet Bowl Champion!
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    "You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here.
    And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should."
  • scotchwizscotchwiz Registered User regular
    Where is the thing being ranted about? There's a quote at the top that seems to be a reply to something else that's not included, and I don't know what to make of it.

  • marsiliesmarsilies Registered User regular
    edited June 2013
    @scotchwiz , Here's the original tumblr post that started it:
    http://brevoortformspring.tumblr.com/post/51641180123/hey-tom-why-isnt-there-more-diversity-in-marvels

    Here's one reply to that post:
    http://brevoortformspring.tumblr.com/post/52054969234/especially-given-what-youre-proselytizing-for-its

    And here's the one screencapped at the link above:
    http://brevoortformspring.tumblr.com/post/52054912954/especially-given-what-youre-proselytizing-for-its


    I think screencapping the first post would've made more sense, but I got the impression that it was the last post that prompted her reply in a "straw that broke the camel's back" sense.

    marsilies on
  • Fixer40000Fixer40000 Registered User regular
    edited June 2013
    @marsilies Now that is interesting.

    The guy is obviously a douchenozzle but rather than trying to imply Kelly Sue wasn't capable, he was trying to say there were tons of talented female/minority writers that Marvel just didn't hire because they had sexist/racist hiring practices. In doing so he cited a case of what he assumed to be Nepotism as one of the only ways a female writer could get hired into Marvel, which of course would indirectly imply that Kelly Sue didn't get the job based soley on her own merits which kicked off that whole reply.

    In other words that post there was nothing to do with making an assumption about Kelly's accomplishments due to her gender but instead making the sexist/racist assumption that because of group of people is predominantly made up of white males, they themselves must be sexist/racist boys club.

    Context is a wonderful thing.

    Fixer40000 on
    Have left PA forums.
    If this community believes that hating someone based soley upon their gender is acceptable and understandable, I have no interest in being a part of it.
  • aberdasheraberdasher Registered User regular
    That really is quite ironic. You would never think that the original claim of prejudice in the workplace, was in fact correct, but in the opposite way of the intended, judging from what kelly is saying about +1s.

  • ParatechParatech Registered User regular
    I don't see the comic book industry as a good industry to be pushing politics. The way mainstream comics 'wipe' their collective universes every year with crossovers that redefine things, what happens in 2013 is irrelevant in 2014, etc.

    I also don't agree with liberal politics, but rather than send hate mail, I just avoid buying comic books now. I just collect old trade paperbacks, reprints in b/w.

    The wonderful thing in this world is people can agree to disagree. People can make comic books with whatever stories they want, and customers can choose to buy or not to buy them.

    That's the thing the Internet has ignored, we don't have to agree with each other on anything. We don't have to force our ideologies onto one another. People have the right to believe what they want and to buy or refuse to buy things as well.

    I read comics like I play games, to forget how messed up this world is. I got into superheroes and video games as a form of entertainment, not as a method of pushing an agenda. I stopped watching politics on TV, and have grown to dislike all politicians.

    Things won't be solved by forcing our beliefs onto each other, that hasn't worked since day 1.

  • AsteraiAsterai Registered User regular
    @Fixer40000: I have a story about correlation and causation to tell you.

    I'm in a male-dominated graduate program. My incoming class had 30 students, 5 of them female.

    Six years on, we see that three of those five female students have or had a boyfriend in the same program. Coincidence? Of course not. But what caused what?

    Not one of them got any help from their boyfriends getting into the program. It's essentially impossible, even without knowing anything about the characters of the people involved or the relationships between them. The students here, it turns out, have no influence over the admissions. None.

    But let's talk some details. Their now-boyfriends didn't know them before they met here at school. Their boyfriends had no special pull over the admissions committee, and were generally grateful to have gotten into a good program themselves. Their boyfriends, like every student in this program, were pretty much fully occupied insuring their own success, and had no energy left over to try and help another person through except on a fair-and-equal-partnership basis.

    So how did this not-coincidence happen? I'll break down some relevant factors.

    1) We're all very busy people. We don't have much time to go looking elsewhere. The two girls who didn't wind up with someone in the same department are still single. Likewise, the guys mostly either had pre-existing girlfriends when they came here, or hooked up in-department, or languished lonely. The two gay guys I know about tried dating and decided it was a bad fit and then were awkward and lonely for the rest of their stay here.

    On a similar note, most people wound up making friends with some subset of their classmates. Or quitting early. Isolation does bad things to you.

    2) Everyone is hungry to understand and be understood. A consequence of doing something specialized is that few people out in the world think quite the same way you do. Few people will understand when you come home grumbling about this problem or idea that just won't let go of you, that you are so hungry to solve, to understand. Few people will admire the beauty of your most elegant work. Few people will commiserate with your (to most) apparently self-imposed frustrations. Both the girls and the guys in this scenario are getting more satisfying partners, people they can more easily communicate with.

    3) A lot of guys won't date a girl that's better at "guy things" than 98% of guys. Sure, some are attracted - and for good reasons, not creepy ones - but a lot aren't. A lot of people don't even want to be friends or hold a conversation in public when they suddenly realize what we do. Not in an insulting way, usually, they're just intimidated. Intimidated is not a good way to start a relationship. Especially not when you're a guy, and you're used to being the instigator in romantic encounters. But it's hard(er) to be intimidated when you know you're very good at the same things, like every guy in the same program.

    So. Despite not knowing each other before they started working/studying here, in this difficult-to-get-into, male-dominated program, a lot of girls wound up in couples because they had so much common ground.

    It strikes me that almost all of these factors would apply to a woman working in the male-dominated comics industry. Busy? Check. Unique outlook? Check. Potentially intimidating? Check.

    But there's a simpler way to figure all this out, actually. Ask three questions: Who was there first? Were the two people connected when the second person was brought in? Does the first person have a significant amount of power in the organization?

    In my case, neither, no, no. In Kelly Sue's case, Kelly, yes, meh. However you choose to read that set of facts, it puts Kelly solidly in the clear.

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