webguy20I spend too much time on the InternetRegistered Userregular
I do like the "recharge daily with surge" idea. Fighters have more surges but if they are doing their job then some of those surges will have to go into healing, while the squishy characters can use their more limited surges on dailies. Should balance out.
I'll have to think on that. I think a game built around the surge mechanic could be interesting.
I like the idea of the only thing ever really holding characters back from pressing forward being that their healing surges are depleted, representing the limits of their endurance. Being able to get their powers back lets them stretch to the absolute limits without just making combat a risky slog. You can the do things like introducing food and sleeping conditions which give them an extra surge or two for the day so that they can press on longer.
Thats... actually a rather novel idea, since it also factors in a risk/reward system; if players blow too many surges trying to be Chuck Norris then they can suddenly find themselves struggling to stay alive an encounter or two later.
I'll have to see about figuring out a good way to implement this beyond the handful of magic items I designed that "overcharge" with surges.
The only issue I see with it is rituals sharing that space with dailies, since mixing combat and noncombat resources can be iffy. Yet, I also like the idea that the wizard has to try to refrain from getting beat up or using powerful spells so they can open the portal you shove the big bad into. It would definitely be a different iteration of the game.
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webguy20I spend too much time on the InternetRegistered Userregular
it could rework the magic item system too, instead of your regular +1 items or whatever you can now introduce items that +1 surge and things like that. too bad 4th ed isn't open license like 3.5.
Well, by default rituals already mix with combat resources because they cost money. Changing that to healing surges doesn't really hurt you.
You may want to ban the ritual that lets your party pool and distribute surges, though.
Other side-effects of using surges for dailies: classes like the Artificer that can be built to grant lots of temps without taking healing surges become the optimal leader route, the Durable feat becomes an instant-choice for everyone, and Constitution becomes the god stat. It can work, but I think you need to do a little more house ruling regarding where your surge total comes from.
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webguy20I spend too much time on the InternetRegistered Userregular
yea there would need to be some serious re-tooling and maths, but I think the concept is sound.
Do not fuck with a lich that brings a death knight and gets a surprise round.
It will end badly.
Also because the DM has seven pages of monster to deal with and is probably insane or ANGRY.
Apparently the "issue" was twofold. A- We did not have our cleric. If we'd had our cleric, our healing reserves would have been sufficient. B- Our fighter does not do party tactics. He's a bit of a That Guy, and decides what his character would do and that's what he does and oh well if it doesn't work out well for everybody else.
I just have the mental image of him talking up the fighter and how these additional attacks are really multiplicative and not additive while in the corner, the Wizard player has his hand clamped over his mouth desperately trying to avoid bursting out laughing.
I just have the mental image of him talking up the fighter and how these additional attacks are really multiplicative and not additive while in the corner, the Wizard player has his hand clamped over his mouth desperately trying to avoid bursting out laughing.
I just have the mental image of him talking up the fighter and how these additional attacks are really multiplicative and not additive while in the corner, the Wizard player has his hand clamped over his mouth desperately trying to avoid bursting out laughing.
So. Playing Baldur's Gate 2 Extended Edition. Randomly went to look something up on the Forgotten Realms Wiki. Find out that Bhaal was coming back in 5e, though a citation was needed.
Haven't heard anything, and there's been basically nothing official about FR Next so...unless it's mentioned in a novel or something, I doubt that's anything but speculation.
So. Playing Baldur's Gate 2 Extended Edition. Randomly went to look something up on the Forgotten Realms Wiki. Find out that Bhaal was coming back in 5e, though a citation was needed.
Is this true? If so, BOOOOOOOOOOO.
I recall that they are bringing back Mystra and the Mary Stu/Sue brigade back as well, which pretty much ensures my interest in anything FR ever remains gone.
My introduction to DnD came through the Baldur's Gate and Icewind Dale games, so I have a strong bias for FR, but I do really like FR's pantheon in its general setup. I like the Greek-pantheon-esque sparring and feuding and some of the mysticism around, say, the Risen Sun heresy and the Dark Moon heresy (both sorta in BG2 now!) but man, does the setting suffer from comic book syndrome.
I just don't get how after entire games around Bhaal's death and Myrkul's death (okay, that was just an expansion) why they'd revert those... for what? Cuz Bhaal was so cooool back in 2E FR? Bhaal was iconic?
I can't personally comment on the books, having never read them, but from stuff I've seen online, Mystra's basically Jean Grey/Phoenix now. But even Marvel knows well enough to let that one go (well... sorta).
hippofant on
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KalnaurI See Rain . . .Centralia, WARegistered Userregular
My introduction to DnD came through the Baldur's Gate and Icewind Dale games, so I have a strong bias for FR, but I do really like FR's pantheon in its general setup. I like the Greek-pantheon-esque sparring and feuding and some of the mysticism around, say, the Risen Sun heresy and the Dark Moon heresy (both sorta in BG2 now!) but man, does the setting suffer from comic book syndrome.
I just don't get how after entire games around Bhaal's death and Myrkul's death (okay, that was just an expansion) why they'd revert those... for what? Cuz Bhaal was so cooool back in 2E FR? Bhaal was iconic?
I can't personally comment on the books, having never read them, but from stuff I've seen online, Mystra's basically Jean Grey/Phoenix now. But even Marvel knows well enough to let that one go (well... sorta).
A desperate grasp to gain back the felling of playing the game for the "first time", is my guess.
I make art things! deviantART:Kalnaur ::: Origin: Kalnaur ::: UPlay: Kalnaur
My introduction to DnD came through the Baldur's Gate and Icewind Dale games, so I have a strong bias for FR, but I do really like FR's pantheon in its general setup. I like the Greek-pantheon-esque sparring and feuding and some of the mysticism around, say, the Risen Sun heresy and the Dark Moon heresy (both sorta in BG2 now!) but man, does the setting suffer from comic book syndrome.
I just don't get how after entire games around Bhaal's death and Myrkul's death (okay, that was just an expansion) why they'd revert those... for what? Cuz Bhaal was so cooool back in 2E FR? Bhaal was iconic?
I can't personally comment on the books, having never read them, but from stuff I've seen online, Mystra's basically Jean Grey/Phoenix now. But even Marvel knows well enough to let that one go (well... sorta).
A desperate grasp to gain back the felling of playing the game for the "first time", is my guess.
Also one of the only ways to threaten any of the almighty wizards who run the place.
I mean that FR has no narrative focus, no core. It's every fantasy trope ever dumped onto a world.
It's not... about ... anything. And that makes it pretty dull, and doesn't have any... innate narrative momentum?
I'm struggling with words here, but maybe you know what I mean. The PCs don't have anything to do except what we come up with. There are no tasks innate to the setting. In Dark Sun you wanna survive, get water, watch out for those Sorceror Kings, watch out for the Veiled Alliance, don't get eaten etc etc. Eberron I don't know well, but there is a kind of cold war and magico-industrial revolution going on, right?
FR just sits there. They've done really well at talking about how any given region has conflict, but the setting as a whole is a big cold lump of narrative porridge.
I mean that FR has no narrative focus, no core. It's every fantasy trope ever dumped onto a world.
It's not... about ... anything. And that makes it pretty dull, and doesn't have any... innate narrative momentum?
I'm struggling with words here, but maybe you know what I mean. The PCs don't have anything to do except what we come up with. There are no tasks innate to the setting. In Dark Sun you wanna survive, get water, watch out for those Sorceror Kings, watch out for the Veiled Alliance, don't get eaten etc etc. Eberron I don't know well, but there is a kind of cold war and magico-industrial revolution going on, right?
FR just sits there. They've done really well at talking about how any given region has conflict, but the setting as a whole is a big cold lump of narrative porridge.
Well, this week's Table Titans might hint at what they're doing with 5E FR. Dunno if this came from the setting-to-be or just Scott Kurtz's brain, but it sounds pretty neat:
My only exposure to FR was long ago in the form of random stuff that would show up in Dragon, but I think that, unlike the case of game mechanics, if the grognards want their old Forgotten Realms back, it probably makes sense to give it to them. If they have different ideas they'd like to see in print, then why not make it a new setting?
lowlylowlycook on
(Please do not gift. My game bank is already full.)
But what's the value of just reprinting the same old stuff all over again? If the grognards want the old stuff it's all still there. Setting material is typically system agnostic, and most of it's bound up in novels, not rulebooks. I understand it might be a source of easy cash for WotC because it's all been written already, but I'm not sure a group of people who, when attempting to get people to play 3.X over 4e, suggest reading the SRD online instead of buying the PHB will be willing to shell out money for a reformatting of books they already own. And it's not like they can really fill in the gaps between already existing material with new info; they made it pretty clear that the reason why they made the changes they did for 4e is because there wasn't any room left for new ideas. The maps were all filled in, all the major (and minor) conflicts were fleshed out, and the world was full of powerful heroes.
Which leaves us with the question that get's asked a lot about Next: who is it for? The grognards already have all the old Forgotten Realms they need, and there's no reason for new players to favor the old version over a new one that actually has room to grow.
But 4e's Forgotten Realms made changes. Those books weren't just rehashing the same material, they were introducing new ideas like the Spell Plague. Lowlylowlycook suggested that reverting those changes and repeating all the old material made sense, but I'm not sure I agree. Sure, it'll win you good will from the grognard faction, but good will isn't worth anything if it doesn't translate into sales and I don't see how trying to sell the same stuff to people who already own it would accomplish that.
I understand that a new edition means more Forgotten Realms setting books in short order, but I think the right approach to that is to create new material. The grognards aren't going to buy those books regardless of what you put in them, but those less stuck in their ways are looking to buy new books with new ideas, not the same old stuff with a different cover.
I think the assumption is that the grognards will push it on the newbies much like they scared people away from 4th. It also has traction outside of the RPG community, and people who finally say "Oh geeze I should try this game about Drizzt."
My only exposure to FR was long ago in the form of random stuff that would show up in Dragon, but I think that, unlike the case of game mechanics, if the grognards want their old Forgotten Realms back, it probably makes sense to give it to them. If they have different ideas they'd like to see in print, then why not make it a new setting?
Oh man, like Elminster just showing up in Ed Greenwood's office in Lake Geneva to give dissertations on the ecology of the rust monster, or whatnot? I actually liked those. The Forgotten Realms were way better when they were a fourth-wall-breaking joke campaign world that was kitchen-sink because they were trying to make the Ecology series generic enough to fit in any campaign.
We're playing the latest test during our D&D encounters season. There have been some really unbalancing things...
1) There's no real penalty to two-weapon fighting. Basically you get your bonus damage on your main weapons and only weapon damage on your second weapon; there's no to hit penalty. Which leads to:
2) rogues with sneak attack, which works on any creature that an allies is within a square of, dual short swords for with +5 to hit (dex bonus + proficiency) 1d6 +4 ( weapon damage plus bonus damage for using their dex in a finese weapon) + 1d6 (sneak attack) and +5 to hit with 1d6 (regular weapon) + 1d6 (sneak attack) for the second weapon.
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I'll have to think on that. I think a game built around the surge mechanic could be interesting.
Origin ID: Discgolfer27
Untappd ID: Discgolfer1981
I'll have to see about figuring out a good way to implement this beyond the handful of magic items I designed that "overcharge" with surges.
Origin ID: Discgolfer27
Untappd ID: Discgolfer1981
You may want to ban the ritual that lets your party pool and distribute surges, though.
Other side-effects of using surges for dailies: classes like the Artificer that can be built to grant lots of temps without taking healing surges become the optimal leader route, the Durable feat becomes an instant-choice for everyone, and Constitution becomes the god stat. It can work, but I think you need to do a little more house ruling regarding where your surge total comes from.
Origin ID: Discgolfer27
Untappd ID: Discgolfer1981
Do not fuck with a lich that brings a death knight and gets a surprise round.
It will end badly.
Also because the DM has seven pages of monster to deal with and is probably insane or ANGRY.
Apparently the "issue" was twofold. A- We did not have our cleric. If we'd had our cleric, our healing reserves would have been sufficient. B- Our fighter does not do party tactics. He's a bit of a That Guy, and decides what his character would do and that's what he does and oh well if it doesn't work out well for everybody else.
Paragon Wizard: Fly, breath underwater, damage large number of foes with fireball and lightning bolt!
Paragon Fighter: Make TWO attacks!
Epic Wizard: Teleport, scry, raise dead, disintegrate enemies!
Epic Fighter: Make THREE attacks!
i don't think you understand the returns on investment you're getting here!
Edit: This is still the single greatest explanation for Wizards vs. Fighters in DnD.
It really is an incredibly useful video.
Is this true? If so, BOOOOOOOOOOO.
I recall that they are bringing back Mystra and the Mary Stu/Sue brigade back as well, which pretty much ensures my interest in anything FR ever remains gone.
Next time I will use a setting which isn't kitchen sink.
Perhaps Dark Sun.
(I just realized that's an unintentional pun.)
Seriously though. Set them up with expectations for what their characters are trying to achieve. Then strand them in the fucking desert.
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
I just don't get how after entire games around Bhaal's death and Myrkul's death (okay, that was just an expansion) why they'd revert those... for what? Cuz Bhaal was so cooool back in 2E FR? Bhaal was iconic?
I can't personally comment on the books, having never read them, but from stuff I've seen online, Mystra's basically Jean Grey/Phoenix now. But even Marvel knows well enough to let that one go (well... sorta).
A desperate grasp to gain back the felling of playing the game for the "first time", is my guess.
Also one of the only ways to threaten any of the almighty wizards who run the place.
I mean that FR has no narrative focus, no core. It's every fantasy trope ever dumped onto a world.
It's not... about ... anything. And that makes it pretty dull, and doesn't have any... innate narrative momentum?
I'm struggling with words here, but maybe you know what I mean. The PCs don't have anything to do except what we come up with. There are no tasks innate to the setting. In Dark Sun you wanna survive, get water, watch out for those Sorceror Kings, watch out for the Veiled Alliance, don't get eaten etc etc. Eberron I don't know well, but there is a kind of cold war and magico-industrial revolution going on, right?
FR just sits there. They've done really well at talking about how any given region has conflict, but the setting as a whole is a big cold lump of narrative porridge.
Well, this week's Table Titans might hint at what they're doing with 5E FR. Dunno if this came from the setting-to-be or just Scott Kurtz's brain, but it sounds pretty neat:
http://www.tabletitans.com/comic/winter-of-the-iron-dwarf-page-7
(Please do not gift. My game bank is already full.)
Which leaves us with the question that get's asked a lot about Next: who is it for? The grognards already have all the old Forgotten Realms they need, and there's no reason for new players to favor the old version over a new one that actually has room to grow.
The Realms have always closely tracked transitions between editions of D&D. It's not so much valuable as inevitable.
I understand that a new edition means more Forgotten Realms setting books in short order, but I think the right approach to that is to create new material. The grognards aren't going to buy those books regardless of what you put in them, but those less stuck in their ways are looking to buy new books with new ideas, not the same old stuff with a different cover.
Honestly, it will tell me a lot about how numerous the 4e-hating types, the couldn't-care-less-I-just-like-DnD-ooh-new-books types, and so on are.
I am actually very interested and looking forward to release and reading the reviews.
I'm just tremendously unlikely to buy any of it.
Oh man, like Elminster just showing up in Ed Greenwood's office in Lake Geneva to give dissertations on the ecology of the rust monster, or whatnot? I actually liked those. The Forgotten Realms were way better when they were a fourth-wall-breaking joke campaign world that was kitchen-sink because they were trying to make the Ecology series generic enough to fit in any campaign.
1) There's no real penalty to two-weapon fighting. Basically you get your bonus damage on your main weapons and only weapon damage on your second weapon; there's no to hit penalty. Which leads to:
2) rogues with sneak attack, which works on any creature that an allies is within a square of, dual short swords for with +5 to hit (dex bonus + proficiency) 1d6 +4 ( weapon damage plus bonus damage for using their dex in a finese weapon) + 1d6 (sneak attack) and +5 to hit with 1d6 (regular weapon) + 1d6 (sneak attack) for the second weapon.