@Andinov Google is your friend. For fun, I decided to take the bait and look for some articles, and with the simple phrase "papers doctor patient diagnosis" I found well over 100 published papers, articles about the innovation of listening to your patients, and teaching guidelines for medical students to learn to pay attention to what the patient is both telling you and not telling you. Honestly, you wouldn't think it was such a big deal, but it was somehow revolutionary back in the 70s. Or you could just go watch "Patch Adams". Have fun.
So essentially games are a solution to an existential crisis. They give us meaning. So the crisis of game compulsion stems not from a philosophical need more than anything else.
Google is your friend. For fun, I decided to take the bait and look for some articles, and with the simple phrase "papers doctor patient diagnosis" I found well over 100 published papers, articles about the innovation of listening to your patients, and teaching guidelines for medical students to learn to pay attention to what the patient is both telling you and not telling you. Honestly, you wouldn't think it was such a big deal, but it was somehow revolutionary back in the 70s. Or you could just go watch "Patch Adams". Have fun.
But you're assuming that undesired behaviors or dispositions work that way. Often times, people don't really know the causes of their own behaviors or feelings. Lots of times, people are wrong about what's causing/maintaining their behavior.
What's difficult is when you do have a strong compulsion, it's hard to seek outside help.
During University (my first 2 years) I retreated strongly into an MMO because I was very unhappy with my University life. My mum was ill, the course started much slower than I expected, and then I felt like I 'fell off' the train. My flatmates were awful to live with. I was struggling working out how to spend money (resulted in me being very hungry in my first year, and then overcompensating in the second and being stressed about too little funding). I was constantly tired and fatigued. My sleep pattern inverted. It was winter and I was very cold.
As a result I played this MMO avidly because it gave me social contact, it gave me confidence.
Problem was that it was hard seeking outside help due to the stigma attached to "video game addiction". I felt like I had no one to turn to. I did through that. But I don't regret the time I spent playing the video game at all. I would have been worse off if I hadn't been playing those games.
But it's not just outsiders who are a problem with Game Compulsion. It's people who play video games too.
When I was writing my Dissertation (third year), I slipped into an Inverted Sleep Pattern due to overwork and fatigue. I would wake up at Midnight and go to sleep at 10 in the morning. My potential productive hours were shorter. And I was deprived from Sunlight. I wasn't mentally able to work on my Dissertation due to exhaustion and almost-depression. I told my guild in the MMO that wouldn't be able to raid with them due to my Dissertation. I would log onto an Alt and level it because it was a productive activity I could do with little mental input. The annoying this was that a few of my guild mates were judgemental towards me. "Stop playing GAME. Write your dissertation" "Go to bed!" "Sort your sleep cycle out!". It was fair observations, but it wasn't constructive. They didn't see I had a problem. I told them I had a problem. They did nothing to help me. They were just judgemental.
My Game Compulsion was caused by loneliness, depression, and investment in a video game series (Mass Effect 3 and Dragon Age 2).
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I relate to the feeling of 'feeling pointless'. It sometimes extends to playing video games where I stop playing one or don't feel like playing one due to 'what's the point?'. I do wonder whether I have to some degree of Bipolar Disorder since my mood tends to fluctuate without any justified reason.
While I agree with the vast majority of statements made in this, and previous, videos on game compulsion, I think you are forgetting one key element to the problem: the person feeling compelled to play.
The inherit problem is not that the person (we will be using a male pronoun for simplicity) is compelled to play games; the problem is that he is compelled to do anything. The type of person who is likely to suffer from game compulsion is the same type of person who is likely to be a compulsive <insert verb here>.
I think all of the factors you have mentioned, such as withdrawal from society and feeling a lack of agency, contribute to the problem but, as is stated on this show before, the problem doesn’t exist in isolation. It exists in a world where people are predisposed to compulsion/addiction, where people become workaholics and compulsive eaters, where people suffer from alcoholism and gambling addiction. Now these types of people can be compulsive gamers, same problem different activity. We need to look at the person, figure out if they are predisposed, and if we find a significant number of people who are not predisposed then we can look more at a larger issue specific to games.
On a side note: Thanks for the LGBT nod at 3:02, the fact that you casually added it without fanfare shows the maturity and acceptance of Extra Credits, especially when compared to most of the gaming culture.
For me it was the escape from reality. After being unemployed for three years I really just needed something to take my mind off the depressing reality of my life. I didn't even realize what was going on until my wife simply asked me why I played so much video games and I didn't know why. Well I know now x_x
@Zarku I disagree.
I experienced Game Compulsion and it has been the only thing I have ever 'holic'ed'. I consume alcohol rarely. I hate the smell of cigarettes. I hate the taste of tea and coffee.
And being unemployed it's impossible to be a 'workaholic', though when I attend my voluntary work I take pride in doing a good job.
I know you used the term "The type of person who is LIKELY to suffer...", but I feel like that term is used in judgement without looking at statistics. Like how I can say that I think the number of people who suffered/suffer from Game Compulsion also suffer from X Compulsion is than than you think. I think "can" or "could" or "might" might be more appropriate for the impartiality.
One aspect I found (which is mentioned in the episode) when I was experience compulsion to play this MMO was that I was doing something *well* in a reality where I wasn't *well*.
Phew, both the episode and comments were really interesting.
First off: good episode. I just talked to my father about my lack of passion and ambition, and this really connected with that conversation.
I think a lot of people who have Game Compulsion, I think especially those people who get lost in a MMO game, have a need for validation. Everyone needs to be validated sometimes. For someone to say that you did a good job or just to be happy that they know you. Some people find this in religion, in believing that God approves of their actions and of who they are. Other people find this in family and friends. A game can give some sort of validation of your actions, some sort of reward for what you did. But it is mostly less meaningful than the validation of another human.
If you are suffering from Game Compulsion, I would advise to play with other people. Try to find a small group to play with; in a small group every individual member is more valuable. If it's possible, try to use some kind of team-speak or VoIP, as it allows for more interaction with the other players than just using the chat box. You can also try to find a (small) forum with people that share your interests. If at any moment you find that someone is being really negative towards you for no reason, and you have tried to reason with him, try to ban or avoid that person or find another group or forum. It might take a couple of weeks to get there, but the Internet is a giant place with a lot of people; there is always someone who shares your interests.
As soon as you have a group of people you are comfortable with, you can try to find some people in the real world that share some of your interests. It should be a little easier, as the pressure to find someone is a little less high now that you already have a group you can share things with. They don't have to share every interest you have, it should just be someone you can talk with comfortably about something you like.
You don't have to be a great success. Some of the people that commented here said that the world is an unfair place, where it is almost impossible to be successful and that some people will never be a constructive member of this society. But it is not your job to help all of society. Every single person on this planet is a part of society, so if you just help one person by being their friend, by giving them someone to talk to and someone to validate their existence, you are already contributing to society.
One more remark: although I agreed with everything that was said in this episode, it lacked a little nuance. Although games can give some easy validation and can possibly pull someone out of the 'real world', I kind of missed the point where games can also be used to bring people together. I know they might have said such things in other episodes, but it wouldn't have hurt to say it again in this one.
Quite a few people here have expressed a sense of discontent towards the humanist philosophy of self-worth and self-purpose. It's actually very surprising to me considering that I'm regarding most of you as individuals well versed in philosophy and psychology (which most game designers are). Some of you say: "individual A says I am worthy while individual B says I am worthless, who to believe?" and some say: "if I create self worth then I live in illusion because my self-worth-illusion might not be supported by others like they already don't support my achievements in the gaming world". To which I ask YOU, does it suit you? Does it suit you to be not sure? Not knowing? To keep questioning other people's opinion of you? Their feelings? Or does it suit you more to know that EC are correct? To create your own dream and go after it no matter what? Does it suit you?
I remember writing in last year and making a promise to James because he'd inspired me to try to crawl back from gaming and into the real world.
It's a promise I have utterly failed to keep. Sorry James.
But at about the 2 minute mark, I hear my OWN words from that e-mail in Dan Floyd's post-processed voice (I'm sure I'm not alone).
And then I realized:
In some small way I made that happen. I'm the one whose words affected James or Dan or whoever JUST enough to have that though appear in this video a year later.
And its enough.
It's enough to make me want to try to connect with "Out there" again rather than sleep-walk through it.
Timely episode for me. I've been struggling to find motivation for things that I want/should be doing lately. Also some really helpful comments guys. This is why I feel at home here :-) Just to throw in my two cents with a quote that I'm trying to live out, that I stumbled on while doing my typing practice the other day:
"If life doesn't offer a game worth playing, then invent a new one. - Anthony J. D'Angelo"
I'm not quite sure I agree about why the people 'writing these papers' (clinical psycholgists and/or media research and/or educational psychologists?) focus so much on the skinner box elements/adrenaline addiction and so on...
One of the easiest ways to get a paper through peer reviews in psychology is to use something that can be easily measured in a meaningful way. The skinner box elements of games (and a person's reaction to them) are something that can easily be counted and compared. The same is true for adrenaline levels or any other hormone you might want to take a closer look at.
In comparison even trying to define concepts like 'purpose in life' or 'feeling validated' is a problem (e.g. psychologists can barely agree about what 'quality of life' means and how to measure it). The only way to measure these things is by using questionnaires or interviews, that would probably have to be invented by any group studying game compulsion, before they even start looking at game compulsion itself. Making a 'purpose in life scale' would take time, effort and money that most clinical psychology projects just don't have. As a result they go back to what they know because it's easy and it's there (and it's what they understand since most of them don't play games).
I thought this was a great episode. It did a great job in identifying a lot of the key human reasons people might choose games over life sometimes. I know I've been guilty of garnering a sense of personal pride from my MMO and gaming accomplishments because of a marked lack of achievement in 'real' life. I also think the episode ends on a really good note. In the end games are just one of the many tools we use to augment our realities and what's important is not cutting those 'escapes' out of our lives, but rather ensuring that when we are using them to empower ourselves when it comes to fighting that day to day grind that life too often presents us with.
Interesting self discovery, but that void cannot be replaced without God. A loving, concerned Creator. I think it's a very positive and valuable introspective point you made though .. people have a loss in such a world, especially such a unconcerned with your value world. ideo Games will never replace that, not in a million years.
I must admit that living in the real world does suck most days. You are surround by people who are more interested in what clothes you wear, how attractive/ugly, how fat/skinny, etc then who YOU are under the surface.
Going to the same job day after day doing the same thing over and over with coworkers that either don't care about you or worse undermine you in hopes of getting ahead in the company. The US economy and job market has paralyzed many people from moving up (promoted), getting raises, looking for new jobs, etc.
You have to support your family so you keep reliving the same work day until you feel as if you are a hollowed out shell (zombie… brains…). All I hear over and over is how lucky I am to still be employed while so many people are out of work or under-employed in terrible jobs but its hard to keep optimistic when you go year after year without raises, pay cuts to existing salaries, increases to company contributions, benefits reduced, more work to cover all those they laid off, etc.
After surviving your work day you come home to a mad rush of family life: cooking dinner, cleaning dishes, doing your children's homework, etc. When all of my daily duties are complete I race to the one thing that I have control over and that is gaming…
I get to put away all of my frustrations, fears, disappointments, depressions, etc and become someone else even if it is just an illusion. I spend the majority of my life doing what everyone else wants, needs, expects, etc me to do and gaming is my one opportunity to do what I want.
I get rewarded with gaming achievements (leveling, raiding, etc) and interact with people who are interested in me and don't know or care what I look like, clothing, money, etc. I think you are spot on with a lot of your assessments for gaming compulsion but one key aspect for me at least is the social element of online gaming that you don't get in the real world. Sort of backwards from the stereotypical antisocial gaming nerd, but I have more positive social interactions online through gaming then I do in the real world.
To everyone who can relate to this, just know that you are not alone out here in this total mess of a world.
I just wanted to thank you guys at Extra Credit for making this episode. I don't want to bore you down with details so I'll just say this episode outlined pretty much my life after a series of crappy events and you've encouraged me to dust myself off and try again. Thank you so much.
I have a strong feeling that once again Extra Credit is off beat on this one however I find it hard to word out exactly why and the more I try the more I repeat what was just told and disagree with it. Degree of control over one's action and outcomes is a reason but not the reason. Otherwise games DayZ wouldn't work, hell, there are lots of punishing and unfair games that people enjoy.
The only point that I would completely agree on is that game compulsion come to fulfill the void that real life left (like any other escapism method:, reading, acting or hiking), person would be craving what their are lacking in their life. Why would I want a harsh, unforgiving hostile game like Stalker and the harsher the better or down on your luck vendor simulator like Cart Life or Papers please?
Perhaps I am off tune since I don't quite differentiate between wanting to play and enjoying a game and game compulsion, maybe I was just lucky playing games since the late 80's in the environment full of other gamers who never "gave up" on reality.
That brings me back around to what I disagree on, sure what was mentioned is a cause for game compulsion but it's just ONE of many reason. sociology have shown the pyramid of human needs and desires for a long while and whatever fulfill our needs is the direction that we as humans are drawn to.
From a political perspective, I definitely have to agree that we have been separated from our sense of purpose, weather by alienation from community, environment, spirituality, heritage etc... I also agree that analyzing root causes is extremely important for resolving social issues, and in doing so can offer more clarity on how to restore balance and improve our relationships.
Though I believe that personal empowerment is really important for improving one's life, the systemic forces that are driving these problems in the first place will likely continue to worsen and become more extreme without organized alternatives and resistance. It would be interesting to continue looking what people are escaping, and what sense of fulfillment that games are providing that is missing in society.. That being said, I don't know if I agree that playing more games is the solution, but its great to have the confidence to define ones own life! (Basis of Anarchy...)
My analysis is based from experiences around climate change issues, but I feel like many social problems share similar dynamics.
Anyway, thanks for your effort and energy producing this show, I think games have a lot of potential to contribute to social change!
@Jerom I believe you are mistaken. What thy are talking about isn't "THE" reason but a reason people who post their studies dont go into. And like all addictions and compulsion "the" reason for one isn't "the" reason for another
You're touching on some deeper issues here; the fact that we're living during an era of decline, possibly THE decline of Western Civilization.
As I joked over on a recent Zero Punctuation video, Animal Crossing can be taken as a metaphor for the spiritual void which reigns over Western Civilization. Absent any other purpose - and terrified of the abyss - the only 'meaning' left is torture. So we take out mortgages on homes we don't need, fancy new cars we don't need, because only the pressing terror of debt is enough to make the average corporate job attractive. Living frugally would force us to confront the fact that we have no purpose.
We've destroyed the church and community, we've destroyed the nation, we've destroyed marriage, we've killed God, and all that is left is materialism, consumerism, and hedonism.
Fifty years ago, when a man slaved away for his family he was rewarded with a loving wife; women, meanwhile, could work (don't believe the feminist lies) but more often than not chose to stay home and raise their family, actively participating in the community through volunteer organizations and grass-roots social movements. 50 years ago, 100 years ago, 500 years ago - life had purpose because we were part of a larger whole. Our nature is that of a social species; we NEED other people. But we traded all of that for the "freedoms" of toys and one night stands.
As women entered the workplace, corporations figured something out: that if you give them a few cheap incentives, women are far more obedient than men. (I discussed this here: http://www.staresattheworld.com/2013/06/the-corporate-boyfriend-a-testimony/) Give them a party - take them out on a lunch date - let them decorate the office during holiday seasons - and they'll slave away for 12 hours a day. The Corporate Boyfriend: their hindbrain mistakes it for a paleolithic tribe, where they're valued - but unlike the tribe, as soon as they're no longer useful they're kicked out.
Meanwhile, to attract the obedient female worker, workplaces have become anti-male; a man must constantly suppress his nature to conform, growing in self-loathing, and having no reward aside from porn and video games at the end of the day. The women, after all, already have a boyfriend - the corporation - so on the weekends all they need is bad boy drugdealer to fulfill their physical urges. Nice guys need not apply.
"Fight Club" was the defining film for this era. It's time to restart civilization.
Something I ought to mention here: I lived most of my life under the belief that the consequences for failure are, well, life-threatening. This is how the culture is like in the country that my family came from: If you screw up even once, you're a dead man walking, regardless of how great your previous accomplishments are. (Japan is like this to some extent: Gunpei Yokoi created the extendable glove, the Game Boy, the D-Pad, and the Virtual Boy, the last of which got him severely demoted at Nintendo, which sent him on a downward spiral that ultimately ended in his death.) If a FAMILY MEMBER screws up particularly bad, you are negatively impacted too. As a result, my parents always put enormous pressure on me to never fail at anything because not only was my livelihood at stake, so was my family's. (Needless to say, this country's entertainment business is in the pits--as my aspirations are for the entertainment business, I had no freedom to discuss it with them.)
It's only recently, within a year ago or so, that I learned that American culture encourages taking risks. If you mess up, you are expected to bounce back, and you get another chance, even if it's with different people. This gives me hope, and it brings some purpose back in me. However, it will take a while for me to discard the thought of "one failure = social suicide" ingrained in me well after college graduation.
Enough about me though--what I wonder is how people in such cultures should react if they turn inwards towards games a lot. You hear a lot of horror stories in South Korea, for instance, of people being so absorbed in the escapism games provide that they forget about basic human functioning. Would telling them that they, as individuals, are worth something and are meaningful...work in the same way as telling North Americans, for whom society constantly tells them to go out and find their place in the world?
I created an account on this website just to be able to post a response to this video. I have been watching your series since it first aired on the Escapist, and have E-mailed in the past thanking you for what you do for the gaming community. But this video makes me feel like I have to chime in.This issue and your thoughts on out reach out to every person that ever ran home after school to play games because the other children were too cruel, and every person that ever decided that a console or a PC was more appealing than a nightclub or bar.
I know this response is likely to be lost in the shuffle of the hundreds of others, but when or if whoever reads all of these reaches this post, I just want you to know that one of those kids that went home to an old console to save the world again because he felt like no one else cared he was alive appreciates the work you do, and videos like this that reach out to all of us.
It's great to hear you guys openly talking about the fact that we all feel lost in terms of the meaning/purpose of our existence at times. Much of today's culture makes it shameful or uncool to feel anything but confidence in yourself. I also agree that gaming can be a powerful diversion from that void, but I was troubled by your ultimate conclusion.
The way I read your conclusion (and sorry if I misunderstood) was that "we are the ones who create worth; we are the ones who decide why we matter". I find that troubling because, if you really believe that, then games are just as legitimate a source as anywhere else. In fact, we should be encouraging people to get their worth from games because (as you point out in the episode) they're much more consistent at providing it than the real world. If worth is something you create for yourself, then you can't call the worth that comes from gaming compulsion an illusion.
So what's left? You could try to get worth from society, but society's chronic inability or refusal to give worth is what drives many people to gaming compulsion in the first place. That leaves an option that I know is unpopular on these threads, but one I believe is true: you have worth because the God that engineered the universe values you. You have a worth that can't be earned or created, only accepted, and that worth is yours no matter how you perform or what others think of you. It may be easy to respond to that with cynicism, but I know for me and countless others, that is the only worth that stands the test of time.
Thanks again for making this kind of discussion possible!
When I play games, I often ignore the NPCs & their quests until I've explored every nook & cranny of the world & taken pictures, because I never get to travel or hike.
Ya' know the funny thing about life always welcoming you back?
The day that you die.
My advice?
You get through life however the fuck you can.
Go dancing. Meet new people. Drink too much. Make a pass. Get rejected. Smoke some crack. Kill a prostitute.
... Or in our case just play alot of videogames.
Eventually things will change in your life and over time you may feel that you don't need those things so much anymore.
Our only real comfort is that when gods and values abandon us we'll still have each other and a big blue rock in the middle of nowhere.
" If worth is something you create for yourself, then you can't call the worth that comes from gaming compulsion an illusion."
I don't think he was saying that it's the sense of worth that you get from games that's the illusion. This isn't talking about people that play games as a hobby and happen to feel a sense of self-worth from that, it's talking about people that allow that hobby to take precedence over other aspects of their lives. The point isn't "the self-worth you get from games is an illusion and you should try to find some real self-worth instead," the point is that people like that typically recognize that what they're doing is damaging other aspects of their lives - friends, relationships, careers, school, whatever - but they feel like they have no control over the things that would allow them to improve.
Another very important reason, which you would understandably miss, if you don't speak to enough female and social gamers, is that there is a sense of connection and intimacy that is missing in our society now. We spend most of our time in environments where we are not allowed to touch other people (like work or school), where we aren't allowed to express emotions, where we can't enjoy a sense of communion with another individual, because there's always something else more important we are supposed to be doing. When we play social games, people who don't play games often think that games are isolating, because we aren't interacting with "real" people, but that isn't really the case. We are interacting with real people, who just don't happen to physically be next to us. (Although it is fun to LAN party with local friends, too.) We often get on chat programs and hear the other people's voices. We make appointments with each other, like dates. And we talk about private feelings and things that we would never bring up at school or work. We talk about things to strangers sometimes, because it's safer, but then those strangers sometimes become great friends. We even go and meet people that we really like, sometimes flying across great distances to take a chance on someone, and some people fall in love and get married.
This video topic and the contents were excellent, but can be expanded further. I would like to recommend a book called, "Ready Player One" by Ernest Cline. It's a fictional sci-fi novel about a future where all our interactions can take place virtually in a much more compelling world than the real one
@Aurini
Do you believe women should have the same rights and and access to the same privileges as men? If you do, then I have bad news for you, my friend: you are a feminist.
I have to disagree with you about the claim about everyone being in control of their own life. For disabled people? That is NOT true. We are DENIED control of our own life even if we are still CAPABLE of doing it, because society dehumanizes us and undermines our rights. Often, we disabled gamers turn to games to do things that we wish we could physically do, such as a paraplegic skydiving and skysurfing and wingsuiting on Second Life, for example. We might never be able to physically do the real thing but sometimes the game is our next-best option to let us get even a fleeting taste of that experience cyberspace that we can never get in meatspace. Many autistic people, myself included, turn to games to escape from ridicule and bullying. When well-intentioned parents try to "cure" this "addiction" by forbidding any use of electronics at all? It often deprives us of the technology we need to communicate in ways non-autistic people can understand, and then when we try to express our fear, distress, and pain we get told our behaviour is "inappropriate" or "disrespectful" or "rude". If you get repeatedly told that your attempts to say "OUCH!" or "HELP!" or "I'm scared!" are "rude and disrespectful to authority figures"? What does that teach you about CONSENT? It teaches you that you are NOT in control of your own destiny. MOREOVER: It teaches you that you are NOT ALLOWED TO CONTROL YOUR OWN LIFE. That makes video-games an even MORE appealing escape from a life that increasingly resembles a waking NIGHTMARE.
I've never commented on this site before but I thought I needed to add my perspective to this topic. you see personally as a transgender person I find games give me an opportunity to live my life as I can't in the real world. it not only gives me control over my in game life it allows me to project what I am even while the real world denies me any hope of fulfillment. the simple act of farming in harvest moon or killing a monster in legend of Zelda leaves me feeling more in control when I have so little control in reality. I find that I don't need to beat a dragon or even fully complete a task in a game to experience of fulfillment its the act of living in the way I can't that offers me contentment. and while I realize that skinner box techniques are present and do effect my playing it's the freedom of the media that fully draws me into it.
Life is what you want it to be, you should do whatever it is you need to to feel content, no matter what others tell you you "should" do. Frankly, I can't stand other people, on average. They're stupid, mean, boring, and stupid (and, did I mention stupid?) I'd rather not deal with them. I go to work in the morning, get home in the late afternoon, and then spend the rest of the night playing video games. I rarely go out, I live alone, and I don't have friends that I hang out with. Overall though, I'm perfectly fine with that. You know what else I don't have? Drama. Heartbreak. Anger. Sorrow. Loss. No one may love me, but also no one hates me. No one may have my back, but also there's no one trying to stick a knife in it. I've felt the low lows of life, and, you know what, I'm willing to give up the occasional high high to have a comfortable life of contented mediocrity. The brain doesn't really care one way or another where your feelings of validation and achievement come from, as long as you get them.
While the message of this video is nice and uplifting, it's also the type of bullshit that could only come from the mouth of a straight white male.
Posts
Really interesting stuff.
But you're assuming that undesired behaviors or dispositions work that way. Often times, people don't really know the causes of their own behaviors or feelings. Lots of times, people are wrong about what's causing/maintaining their behavior.
During University (my first 2 years) I retreated strongly into an MMO because I was very unhappy with my University life. My mum was ill, the course started much slower than I expected, and then I felt like I 'fell off' the train. My flatmates were awful to live with. I was struggling working out how to spend money (resulted in me being very hungry in my first year, and then overcompensating in the second and being stressed about too little funding). I was constantly tired and fatigued. My sleep pattern inverted. It was winter and I was very cold.
As a result I played this MMO avidly because it gave me social contact, it gave me confidence.
Problem was that it was hard seeking outside help due to the stigma attached to "video game addiction". I felt like I had no one to turn to. I did through that. But I don't regret the time I spent playing the video game at all. I would have been worse off if I hadn't been playing those games.
But it's not just outsiders who are a problem with Game Compulsion. It's people who play video games too.
When I was writing my Dissertation (third year), I slipped into an Inverted Sleep Pattern due to overwork and fatigue. I would wake up at Midnight and go to sleep at 10 in the morning. My potential productive hours were shorter. And I was deprived from Sunlight. I wasn't mentally able to work on my Dissertation due to exhaustion and almost-depression. I told my guild in the MMO that wouldn't be able to raid with them due to my Dissertation. I would log onto an Alt and level it because it was a productive activity I could do with little mental input. The annoying this was that a few of my guild mates were judgemental towards me. "Stop playing GAME. Write your dissertation" "Go to bed!" "Sort your sleep cycle out!". It was fair observations, but it wasn't constructive. They didn't see I had a problem. I told them I had a problem. They did nothing to help me. They were just judgemental.
My Game Compulsion was caused by loneliness, depression, and investment in a video game series (Mass Effect 3 and Dragon Age 2).
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I relate to the feeling of 'feeling pointless'. It sometimes extends to playing video games where I stop playing one or don't feel like playing one due to 'what's the point?'. I do wonder whether I have to some degree of Bipolar Disorder since my mood tends to fluctuate without any justified reason.
The inherit problem is not that the person (we will be using a male pronoun for simplicity) is compelled to play games; the problem is that he is compelled to do anything. The type of person who is likely to suffer from game compulsion is the same type of person who is likely to be a compulsive <insert verb here>.
I think all of the factors you have mentioned, such as withdrawal from society and feeling a lack of agency, contribute to the problem but, as is stated on this show before, the problem doesn’t exist in isolation. It exists in a world where people are predisposed to compulsion/addiction, where people become workaholics and compulsive eaters, where people suffer from alcoholism and gambling addiction. Now these types of people can be compulsive gamers, same problem different activity. We need to look at the person, figure out if they are predisposed, and if we find a significant number of people who are not predisposed then we can look more at a larger issue specific to games.
On a side note: Thanks for the LGBT nod at 3:02, the fact that you casually added it without fanfare shows the maturity and acceptance of Extra Credits, especially when compared to most of the gaming culture.
I experienced Game Compulsion and it has been the only thing I have ever 'holic'ed'. I consume alcohol rarely. I hate the smell of cigarettes. I hate the taste of tea and coffee.
And being unemployed it's impossible to be a 'workaholic', though when I attend my voluntary work I take pride in doing a good job.
I know you used the term "The type of person who is LIKELY to suffer...", but I feel like that term is used in judgement without looking at statistics. Like how I can say that I think the number of people who suffered/suffer from Game Compulsion also suffer from X Compulsion is than than you think. I think "can" or "could" or "might" might be more appropriate for the impartiality.
One aspect I found (which is mentioned in the episode) when I was experience compulsion to play this MMO was that I was doing something *well* in a reality where I wasn't *well*.
First off: good episode. I just talked to my father about my lack of passion and ambition, and this really connected with that conversation.
I think a lot of people who have Game Compulsion, I think especially those people who get lost in a MMO game, have a need for validation. Everyone needs to be validated sometimes. For someone to say that you did a good job or just to be happy that they know you. Some people find this in religion, in believing that God approves of their actions and of who they are. Other people find this in family and friends. A game can give some sort of validation of your actions, some sort of reward for what you did. But it is mostly less meaningful than the validation of another human.
If you are suffering from Game Compulsion, I would advise to play with other people. Try to find a small group to play with; in a small group every individual member is more valuable. If it's possible, try to use some kind of team-speak or VoIP, as it allows for more interaction with the other players than just using the chat box. You can also try to find a (small) forum with people that share your interests. If at any moment you find that someone is being really negative towards you for no reason, and you have tried to reason with him, try to ban or avoid that person or find another group or forum. It might take a couple of weeks to get there, but the Internet is a giant place with a lot of people; there is always someone who shares your interests.
As soon as you have a group of people you are comfortable with, you can try to find some people in the real world that share some of your interests. It should be a little easier, as the pressure to find someone is a little less high now that you already have a group you can share things with. They don't have to share every interest you have, it should just be someone you can talk with comfortably about something you like.
You don't have to be a great success. Some of the people that commented here said that the world is an unfair place, where it is almost impossible to be successful and that some people will never be a constructive member of this society. But it is not your job to help all of society. Every single person on this planet is a part of society, so if you just help one person by being their friend, by giving them someone to talk to and someone to validate their existence, you are already contributing to society.
One more remark: although I agreed with everything that was said in this episode, it lacked a little nuance. Although games can give some easy validation and can possibly pull someone out of the 'real world', I kind of missed the point where games can also be used to bring people together. I know they might have said such things in other episodes, but it wouldn't have hurt to say it again in this one.
Robert Conklin said that, and he was right.
So dream away, and dream often, and dream big. AND NEVER LET ANYONE TALK YOU OUT OF YOUR DREAMS.
What is your dream today? Is it vast enough, bold enough, to hold your soul?"
I remember writing in last year and making a promise to James because he'd inspired me to try to crawl back from gaming and into the real world.
It's a promise I have utterly failed to keep. Sorry James.
But at about the 2 minute mark, I hear my OWN words from that e-mail in Dan Floyd's post-processed voice (I'm sure I'm not alone).
And then I realized:
In some small way I made that happen. I'm the one whose words affected James or Dan or whoever JUST enough to have that though appear in this video a year later.
And its enough.
It's enough to make me want to try to connect with "Out there" again rather than sleep-walk through it.
Thanks guys.
"If life doesn't offer a game worth playing, then invent a new one. - Anthony J. D'Angelo"
One of the easiest ways to get a paper through peer reviews in psychology is to use something that can be easily measured in a meaningful way. The skinner box elements of games (and a person's reaction to them) are something that can easily be counted and compared. The same is true for adrenaline levels or any other hormone you might want to take a closer look at.
In comparison even trying to define concepts like 'purpose in life' or 'feeling validated' is a problem (e.g. psychologists can barely agree about what 'quality of life' means and how to measure it). The only way to measure these things is by using questionnaires or interviews, that would probably have to be invented by any group studying game compulsion, before they even start looking at game compulsion itself. Making a 'purpose in life scale' would take time, effort and money that most clinical psychology projects just don't have. As a result they go back to what they know because it's easy and it's there (and it's what they understand since most of them don't play games).
Going to the same job day after day doing the same thing over and over with coworkers that either don't care about you or worse undermine you in hopes of getting ahead in the company. The US economy and job market has paralyzed many people from moving up (promoted), getting raises, looking for new jobs, etc.
You have to support your family so you keep reliving the same work day until you feel as if you are a hollowed out shell (zombie… brains…). All I hear over and over is how lucky I am to still be employed while so many people are out of work or under-employed in terrible jobs but its hard to keep optimistic when you go year after year without raises, pay cuts to existing salaries, increases to company contributions, benefits reduced, more work to cover all those they laid off, etc.
After surviving your work day you come home to a mad rush of family life: cooking dinner, cleaning dishes, doing your children's homework, etc. When all of my daily duties are complete I race to the one thing that I have control over and that is gaming…
I get to put away all of my frustrations, fears, disappointments, depressions, etc and become someone else even if it is just an illusion. I spend the majority of my life doing what everyone else wants, needs, expects, etc me to do and gaming is my one opportunity to do what I want.
I get rewarded with gaming achievements (leveling, raiding, etc) and interact with people who are interested in me and don't know or care what I look like, clothing, money, etc. I think you are spot on with a lot of your assessments for gaming compulsion but one key aspect for me at least is the social element of online gaming that you don't get in the real world. Sort of backwards from the stereotypical antisocial gaming nerd, but I have more positive social interactions online through gaming then I do in the real world.
To everyone who can relate to this, just know that you are not alone out here in this total mess of a world.
The only point that I would completely agree on is that game compulsion come to fulfill the void that real life left (like any other escapism method:, reading, acting or hiking), person would be craving what their are lacking in their life. Why would I want a harsh, unforgiving hostile game like Stalker and the harsher the better or down on your luck vendor simulator like Cart Life or Papers please?
Perhaps I am off tune since I don't quite differentiate between wanting to play and enjoying a game and game compulsion, maybe I was just lucky playing games since the late 80's in the environment full of other gamers who never "gave up" on reality.
That brings me back around to what I disagree on, sure what was mentioned is a cause for game compulsion but it's just ONE of many reason. sociology have shown the pyramid of human needs and desires for a long while and whatever fulfill our needs is the direction that we as humans are drawn to.
Though I believe that personal empowerment is really important for improving one's life, the systemic forces that are driving these problems in the first place will likely continue to worsen and become more extreme without organized alternatives and resistance. It would be interesting to continue looking what people are escaping, and what sense of fulfillment that games are providing that is missing in society.. That being said, I don't know if I agree that playing more games is the solution, but its great to have the confidence to define ones own life! (Basis of Anarchy...)
My analysis is based from experiences around climate change issues, but I feel like many social problems share similar dynamics.
Anyway, thanks for your effort and energy producing this show, I think games have a lot of potential to contribute to social change!
As I joked over on a recent Zero Punctuation video, Animal Crossing can be taken as a metaphor for the spiritual void which reigns over Western Civilization. Absent any other purpose - and terrified of the abyss - the only 'meaning' left is torture. So we take out mortgages on homes we don't need, fancy new cars we don't need, because only the pressing terror of debt is enough to make the average corporate job attractive. Living frugally would force us to confront the fact that we have no purpose.
We've destroyed the church and community, we've destroyed the nation, we've destroyed marriage, we've killed God, and all that is left is materialism, consumerism, and hedonism.
Fifty years ago, when a man slaved away for his family he was rewarded with a loving wife; women, meanwhile, could work (don't believe the feminist lies) but more often than not chose to stay home and raise their family, actively participating in the community through volunteer organizations and grass-roots social movements. 50 years ago, 100 years ago, 500 years ago - life had purpose because we were part of a larger whole. Our nature is that of a social species; we NEED other people. But we traded all of that for the "freedoms" of toys and one night stands.
As women entered the workplace, corporations figured something out: that if you give them a few cheap incentives, women are far more obedient than men. (I discussed this here: http://www.staresattheworld.com/2013/06/the-corporate-boyfriend-a-testimony/) Give them a party - take them out on a lunch date - let them decorate the office during holiday seasons - and they'll slave away for 12 hours a day. The Corporate Boyfriend: their hindbrain mistakes it for a paleolithic tribe, where they're valued - but unlike the tribe, as soon as they're no longer useful they're kicked out.
Meanwhile, to attract the obedient female worker, workplaces have become anti-male; a man must constantly suppress his nature to conform, growing in self-loathing, and having no reward aside from porn and video games at the end of the day. The women, after all, already have a boyfriend - the corporation - so on the weekends all they need is bad boy drugdealer to fulfill their physical urges. Nice guys need not apply.
"Fight Club" was the defining film for this era. It's time to restart civilization.
It's only recently, within a year ago or so, that I learned that American culture encourages taking risks. If you mess up, you are expected to bounce back, and you get another chance, even if it's with different people. This gives me hope, and it brings some purpose back in me. However, it will take a while for me to discard the thought of "one failure = social suicide" ingrained in me well after college graduation.
Enough about me though--what I wonder is how people in such cultures should react if they turn inwards towards games a lot. You hear a lot of horror stories in South Korea, for instance, of people being so absorbed in the escapism games provide that they forget about basic human functioning. Would telling them that they, as individuals, are worth something and are meaningful...work in the same way as telling North Americans, for whom society constantly tells them to go out and find their place in the world?
I know this response is likely to be lost in the shuffle of the hundreds of others, but when or if whoever reads all of these reaches this post, I just want you to know that one of those kids that went home to an old console to save the world again because he felt like no one else cared he was alive appreciates the work you do, and videos like this that reach out to all of us.
The way I read your conclusion (and sorry if I misunderstood) was that "we are the ones who create worth; we are the ones who decide why we matter". I find that troubling because, if you really believe that, then games are just as legitimate a source as anywhere else. In fact, we should be encouraging people to get their worth from games because (as you point out in the episode) they're much more consistent at providing it than the real world. If worth is something you create for yourself, then you can't call the worth that comes from gaming compulsion an illusion.
So what's left? You could try to get worth from society, but society's chronic inability or refusal to give worth is what drives many people to gaming compulsion in the first place. That leaves an option that I know is unpopular on these threads, but one I believe is true: you have worth because the God that engineered the universe values you. You have a worth that can't be earned or created, only accepted, and that worth is yours no matter how you perform or what others think of you. It may be easy to respond to that with cynicism, but I know for me and countless others, that is the only worth that stands the test of time.
Thanks again for making this kind of discussion possible!
The day that you die.
My advice?
You get through life however the fuck you can.
Go dancing. Meet new people. Drink too much. Make a pass. Get rejected. Smoke some crack. Kill a prostitute.
... Or in our case just play alot of videogames.
Eventually things will change in your life and over time you may feel that you don't need those things so much anymore.
Our only real comfort is that when gods and values abandon us we'll still have each other and a big blue rock in the middle of nowhere.
It will never get any easier than that.
" If worth is something you create for yourself, then you can't call the worth that comes from gaming compulsion an illusion."
I don't think he was saying that it's the sense of worth that you get from games that's the illusion. This isn't talking about people that play games as a hobby and happen to feel a sense of self-worth from that, it's talking about people that allow that hobby to take precedence over other aspects of their lives. The point isn't "the self-worth you get from games is an illusion and you should try to find some real self-worth instead," the point is that people like that typically recognize that what they're doing is damaging other aspects of their lives - friends, relationships, careers, school, whatever - but they feel like they have no control over the things that would allow them to improve.
That lack of control is the illusion.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-23182523
This video topic and the contents were excellent, but can be expanded further. I would like to recommend a book called, "Ready Player One" by Ernest Cline. It's a fictional sci-fi novel about a future where all our interactions can take place virtually in a much more compelling world than the real one
Do you believe women should have the same rights and and access to the same privileges as men? If you do, then I have bad news for you, my friend: you are a feminist.
While the message of this video is nice and uplifting, it's also the type of bullshit that could only come from the mouth of a straight white male.