[Let's Convert] Rifts to 4th Edition

The Ender

I play a fair bit of this game.

I spend far too much time oggling and waxing nostalgic over this game.

I wish to have my cake and also eat this same cake.


Converting Rifts to different systems has been done before (I think the most robust, professional conversion is Rifts: GURPS), and for reasons that should be obvious to anyone that has perused the Let's Read thread or tried to actually play Rifts. However, as many homebrewers have lamented, 4E may be fun to play but it is not all that fun to homebrew for, because of how involved all of the classes, races, feats, etc are. As far as I'm aware, few attempts have been made to do a total conversion of any sort to 4E, much less a total conversion of a beautiful clusterfuck like Rifts.


I want to attempt to do this.


I'll put out the standard disclaimer that I'm known to have the project discipline of a 6th grader with a stack of homework on one hand and a stack of video games on the other, so it may well be that any beginnings to this effort will in fact never see an end, but whatever: for now, this seems like a good way to spend my free time.


I'd like this to be a spitballing thread of sorts, where we discuss what elements within Rifts are core to it, with effort made to preserve those elements in some form, what elements are toxic to it, and what elements are just sorta there. For starters, and I spend way too much time thinking about this last night:

How core to Rifts is the M.D. vs S.D.C. scale?

In terms of flavor, for some reason, I think it would be hard for me to swallow the idea of a Rifts game without mega-damage. As stupid and clunky as it is... it's so central to the theme of the game, isn't it? At the same time, the extra scale is almost meaningless because S.D.C. encountering M.D. basically just means, "S.D.C. guy / vehicle / whatever gets one-shot."

Surprisingly, 4E does sort-of have a way to convey this (Minions!)... but I can't think of a sensible way to write that sort of translation.

Mega-Damage: Would you bring it with you if you took Rifts to a new place?


How core to Rifts are P.P.E. and I.S.P.?

/While 4E has not completely abandoned the idea of a pool of resource that is spent to activate powers, most classes do not feature this - and I prefer it this way. Rifts was extremely feast or famine with these points - you could create basically an infinite generator of P.P.E. and do whatever the fuck you wanted, eventually, while I.S.P. could be generated by various gear (and I think a few thing allowed you to convert P.P.E. to I.S.P.?)

I am not currently a fan of what amounts to mana pools in games, but again, it's hard for me to think of a Rifts game without either of these thematic elements. I mean, P.P.E. is what caused the apocalypse in the first place (well, P.P.E. and nuclear weapons...).

Would you bring these things along? Maybe just one or the other?

brentodd

Races
Human, Psi-Stalker, Dragon Hatchling, Robot, Mutant Dog (or other animal), and "D-Bee" (or however they spelled it). The D-Bee race can represent any other race - if the people of Rifts earth don't know what you are, you're a D-Bee (Dimensional Being). So there could be Elves, Dwarves, Changelings, Wookies, whatever. The D-Bee racial power could be similar to the Half-Elf racial - choose a level 1 at will from any class (or race).

R.C.C.s
Psi-Stalker and Dragon (and many other races) are presented in the book as R.C.C.s - or Racial Character Classes. I'm thinking those races could be presented with a full list of racial powers the character can choose from alongside the powers of their chosen class. So a Psi-Stalker who chooses only Psi-Stalker powers would have the full range of their natural abilities (sensing/tracking, feeding, interrupting magical attacks, absorbing magical damage for healing purposes, whatever would fit the flavor of an anti-magic user hunter), whereas a Psi-Stalker who chooses to be an Operator would have to make choices. I'm not sure this idea makes much sense for the Dragon RCC though.

Classes (O.C.C.s)

1. Soldier (Defender). Generic soldier for any military organization. Heavy armor, advanced weapons training.
2. Pilot (?). Special headjack cybernetics allow this class to "jack in" to the super advanced robot vehicles like Glitter Boys and SAMAS. As they advance in level, they can join more completely with their machines, and more powerful abilities can become available. Your level 1 Pilot will not be able to handle a Glitter Boy - those are for the elite. This would help keeping this potentially overpowered class balanced. The "role" of this class could actually vary by the Power Armor they're in, which would be interesting.
3. Juicer (Striker). With the installation of a complete suite of Juicer augs, this warrior will burn brightly and die young. Light Armor, advanced weapons training, extreme mobility
4. Mind Melter (Controller). Access to the most powerful Psionic abilities. Light Armor
5. Crazy (Defender?). Psionic class, powers achieved through augmentations. Heavy Armor, advanced weapons, some psionic abilities. Insane
6. Operator (Leader). Mechanic, can build and/or fix almost anything. Can have a "pet" robot/drone which is constantly improved over time. Many abilities can be gadget based.
7. Ley Line Walker, Techno Wizard, Body Fixer, Borg, Cyber-Knight, Burster, Scout, etc etc

Augments
Several classes in the game are really based on augmentations... Juicers, Crazies, Borgs, Pilots (if one goes with my headjack interpretation). So, really there's nothing stopping your Cyber-Knight from getting Juicer augmentations installed or whatever. And while a rule could be made (as in the original books) to say that doing such a thing would destroy the character's psychic abilities - that seems like a cop-out to me. So I was thinking that a set of Augments can be available for purchase by any character.

Take the Cyber-Knight/Juicer example above. If the Cyber-Knight wants the "Pain Resistance" of the Juicer (maybe, 2nd level encounter power, kicks off a healing surge +1d6HP), that particular augment can be installed for a price to provide a lesser version of that (2nd level encounter power, healing surge, no bonus). This power would have to REPLACE an existing Cyber-Knight power. So if our Cyber-Knight gets enough Juicer augments, he eventually makes himself a Juicer, just by overriding all Cyber-Knight powers.

Other cybernetic/bionic/bio-wizardry/tattoos/any other purchaseable upgrades can call operate on that same principal. Perhaps have a "slot" system, where a character can only put so many upgrades on themselves. Some upgrades offer abilities, some offer passive bonuses like AC, saving throws, whatever.

System Crap
MDC, ISP, PPE... they can all go.

MDC is just there to make everything seem super powerful, but all it does is make anything not MDC essentially worthless. And we don't play these games to feel worthless. And it makes your armor equivalent to your HP, but it can't heal, so you have to drop money to get more? Dumb. So, no MCD. Just HP. Armor can work like it does in 4e, providing AC, or Damage Resistance, or both.

ISP and PPE can exist conceptually in the world (it's food for Psi-Stalkers, and it's the reason for the apocalypse, etc), but they don't need to be a pool of points a character draws upon for spell casting/psionic power usage. That just adds unnecessary bookkeeping, and the At-Will, Encounter, Daily power paradigm nicely limits what powers a character can use over and over and over again.

Weapon Rate of Fire - "Standard" vs. "Aimed, Burst, or Wild". Only those with training can use burst fire weapons. So your Ley Line Walker isn't going to be busting out a long burst with an assault rifle and doing the same damage as the Juicer.

The Ender

Oh, this thread. This idea.



That is literally as far as this project has made it thus far. :P

brentodd

I had been thinking what it would be like to do such a conversion, so a quick google search dug up this thread, so I figured why not resurrect it and get the thoughts out of my brain and into the world, where they can benefit all of humanity.

OptimusZed

If I was going to be converting Rifts into something that was actually playable, I'd probably do one of three things;

1) Use Fate Core, make Mega Damage an extra free invoke on attacks or armor that have that quality when they are attacking or resisting things taht don't, re-label Fate Points as ISP and snag one of the magic systems from the systems toolkit.

2) Use the MHR version of Cortex Plus, Mega Damage is doubling up dice in the appropriate pools, Plot Points are ISP.

3) Use M&M 3rd Edition and just have everyone build a superhero that is their character.

brentodd

OptimusZed wrote: »

make Mega Damage an extra free invoke on attacks or armor that have that quality when they are attacking or resisting things taht don't

Not familiar with that system, or what that means - but it sounds like MD attacks/armor get some kind of increased likelihood to do or resist damage? Or would it just be flat-out more damage?

OptimusZed

brentodd wrote: »

OptimusZed wrote: »

make Mega Damage an extra free invoke on attacks or armor that have that quality when they are attacking or resisting things taht don't

Not familiar with that system, or what that means - but it sounds like MD attacks/armor get some kind of increased likelihood to do or resist damage? Or would it just be flat-out more damage?

A little of both. Attacks in Fate just roll skill vs skill, and you take the overage if the attack wins. Invokes are +2 bonuses to a roll, so it would be an attack and damage bonus, assuming you hit and did damage.