Also, obligatory, "My selling page has been updated" notification.
Buy shit.
Everyday I wake up is the worst day of my life.
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ExtreaminatusGo forth and amplify,the Noise Marines are here!Registered Userregular
I've always played it as the first model has to be within 6", not the whole unit.
[grump]Or at least I used to when Chaos Marines could summon daemons from banners. [/grump]
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Gabriel_Pitt(effective against Russian warships)Registered Userregular
Does the rule say 'within' or 'completely within?' Because you have both appearing in the rules. If it just says 'within' then only part of it needs to be within that hypothetical circle.
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VanguardBut now the dream is over. And the insect is awake.Registered User, __BANNED USERSregular
Thanks guys, I thought I was right but I just wanted some other people to confirm.
Yes, all the allied matrix effects still take place, there's just no FOC.
Still, don't let it stop you from running come the apoc allies. I've run imperial assassins and legion of the damned in my chaos list, and I've got an IG tank and ork-reich army on the assembly line.
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Halos Nach TariffCan you blame me?I'm too famous.Registered Userregular
edited October 2014
I don't know if anyone is particularly interested but an upcoming White Dwarf is going to have rules for a new Tyranid MC dual-kit featuring the 'Toxicrene' and 'Malceptor'.
Not particularly exciting news for anyone who doesn't play Tyranids I suppose, and even then the rules are pretty lack-lustre (which I suppose at least matches the rest of the codex). The Toxicrene is a sort of MC Venomthrope style thing, with shrouded, lash whips and poison, which might see some play as a counter-assault unit. The Malceptor is a psychic, synapse creature with a unique (albeit almost completely unreliable) psychic power.
Malceptor:
The Toxicrene has the same body but with big lashwhips, a lictor style head and toxin sacs instead of brains.
The Malceptor is an Elites choice, around 200pts, with the standard Tyranid MC statline, 5W and a 4+ save.
It's a psyker (lv2) with Synapse and SitW.
It has a unique power 'Psychic Overload' which is WC2, 24" focussed witchfire. The target unit has to make a Ld check on 3D6 (vehicles count as Ld10), if it fails it suffers D3 auto-wounds with ignores cover (or one auto glancing hit with ignores cover). The Malceptor can attempt to manifest this power up to three times per psychic phase, but cannot target the same unit more than once in the same phase. (You may note doing this is more likely to have the Malceptor kill itself via Perils than cause any real damage to the enemy).
The Toxicrene is HS, ~160pts, sam standard statline but at S5 with a 4+ save. 6 attacks base though.
It has shrouded, poison 2+ and Hypertoxic (meaning all its poisoned attacks cause ID on a 6 to wound)
It gets Acid Blood, Lash Whips and Toxic Miasma for free, plus a 'choking cloud' ranged weapon which is 12", S3, AP- Large Blast, Poison 2+, Ignores Cover, Hypertoxic, 'Predatory Sentience' (Gains Armourbane versus vehicles with Open Topped or with less than their max number of hull points).
Hoooooly shit you guys
I just got my batch of http://evilcraft.eu/shop/ minis. I know some of you have been considering getting them but the store was on a hiatus - well now it's back and this shit is totally worth all the money. Details are Forgeworld-level crisp, the sculpts are amazing (except for the bare heads, which are kinda meh) and the poseability is insane - even the hands are separate from the arms!
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-Loki-Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining.Registered Userregular
So cool looking, but some of the worst units in the book, by a startling margin. Really quite insulting.
Sums up just about everything about Tyranids right now.
If they actually made the Haruspex worth using, I'd probably buy one and get some more games in.
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daveNYCWhy universe hate Waspinator?Registered Userregular
Psychic Overload is just plain bad. Like silly bad.
Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
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Halos Nach TariffCan you blame me?I'm too famous.Registered Userregular
I think the Malceptor might actually be worse than the Pyrovore, like, a single Zoanthrope fits the same FoC slot, provides the same Warp Charge and costs like a quarter of the points.
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daveNYCWhy universe hate Waspinator?Registered Userregular
It can't even focus its unimpressive fire on a single unit. Is it standard wound allocation? Precision Shot functionality might at least be something.
Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
I think the Malceptor might actually be worse than the Pyrovore, like, a single Zoanthrope fits the same FoC slot, provides the same Warp Charge and costs like a quarter of the points.
At least the pyrovore is good at it's (completely irrelevant) job...
Everyday I wake up is the worst day of my life.
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Halos Nach TariffCan you blame me?I'm too famous.Registered Userregular
Didn't realise the Toxicrene had 6 attacks, that's kind of rubbing it in a bit for the poor old Haruspex - especially as both have acid blood and the tox's shooting attack is a lot better (and it has I6, and a close combat large blast).
I felt a little bad that having bought two of the Exocrine/Harupsex kits they both ended up as Exocrines as I do really like the Haruspex model, 6 attacks might have convinced me otherwise.
Least there's not that problem with this kit though, I think the Toxicrene is a much more interesting looking model. The Malceptor just needed an extra rule or so to distinguish itself a little more from just being another large synapse beast - something to emphasise it's role as a synaptic hub rather than a truly awful psychic power.
Toxicrene - Change Shrouded to Venomthrope bubble, 3+ armor. Offers another alternative to Venom/Malan with a combat-orient shrouding option. Armor change allows it to not lose to 10 tac marines in combat.
Malceptor - 3++ invuln, psychic attack WC1, S5. Offers durable synapse/psyker, shitty in combat, useful psychic power, still slow and expensive.
Toxicrene can take out tacticals, though I'd not complain about having 3+ armour purely out of consistency with the other big monsters. For all their exposed brains and gas-sacs, they don't really look much less armoured than a Exocrine or Haruspex.
Overwatch - 20 shots, 0.27 wounds through armour (as presumably it'll not be using shrouded on the turn it charges)
I6 step - 7A on the charge, 3.5 hits, 2.9 kills on the marines
I4 step - 8.1A back, 0.44 wounds on the Toxicrene (assuming no powerfist - add 1 wound if there is).
End of I4 - 0.03 wounds due to acid blood (0.25 wounds if there is a powerfist)
I0 step - toxic miasma, it's unlikely the squad isn't all going to be within 3" of the Toxicrine given it's base size (especially if there is two gaps at the front when it's their turn to pile in), so will generally have to move into contact with it. So another 3.5 wounds on the marines, killing 1.16 marines.
With a power fist it'll be touch and go as to who kills the other first, as both should be able to achieve this after 3 rounds (though the Tox has the higher initiative and a slight edge). The 4+ plus save I think is a bigger deal against large numbers of attacks, but it's tough enough to take 20 charging slugga boyz with a powerklaw nob on, surviving just long enough to get it's toxic miasma off. I think if it was a giant venomthrope with a shrouding aura it'd be just too expensive because that would be ludicrously good on a base this size and that kind of statline. Tau would still murder it (at least with keeping a 4+ save) but most other armies ignores cover weapons are dangerous enough to small units of Venomthropes but not enough to really bother a monstrous creature.
Malceptor should have been an (old style) Tervigon for synapse creatures, put it alongside warriors to boost their synapse range and give them counter attack/preferred enemy sort of thing. Or a mastery level 2 psychic tank with no unique powers and a much lower points cost - Tyranid powers aren't even all that bad, so just having it chucking out buffs and maledictions would already put it in a different niche than the Zoanthropes.
Tastyfish on
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Halos Nach TariffCan you blame me?I'm too famous.Registered Userregular
Is that with the tacticals using their Krak Grenades? 'Cos they have those, and when you only have a 4+ save...
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ExtreaminatusGo forth and amplify,the Noise Marines are here!Registered Userregular
I don't think you can use krak grenades in CC with a creature. They're against vehicles only in combat.
Even though these two models may not be competitive, I kind of like the strategy of releasing models here and there, rather than having to wait around for codex updates. I hope GW doesn't take the wrong lesson from this if the models don't sell well due to poor rules.
Even though these two models may not be competitive, I kind of like the strategy of releasing models here and there, rather than having to wait around for codex updates. I hope GW doesn't take the wrong lesson from this if the models don't sell well due to poor rules.
The rules will probably be in the model box as well. They are in the new WHFB kits, or at least the Blightkings, I haven't seen the others.
The Malanthrope is half the pts, with an arguably better statline for it's cost. You give up MC status, acid blood, 1T , 1W and a few attacks to gain synapse, fleet, the ability to grant a PE bubble, 3+ armor, and regen.
Even giving the Toxicrene the bubble, I'd still probably take 2 malanthropes over it just on the basis of the 3+ vs 4+.
The Malceptor could've been pretty much anything besides what it is and been better, which is really sad. It's probably the worst thing in the book now.
Even though these two models may not be competitive, I kind of like the strategy of releasing models here and there, rather than having to wait around for codex updates. I hope GW doesn't take the wrong lesson from this if the models don't sell well due to poor rules.
I'd rather they fail entirely at this point and have a situation like with heroclix where someone comes in, buys it up, and fixes it.
Well who would have the money to buy GW and at the same time be trusted to do a better job?
If they stop making money, the value of the rights will not be prohibitively expensive, and a pair of community college business majors could run the company better. Theyd at least know the value of focus groups.
Everyday I wake up is the worst day of my life.
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Mr_Rose83 Blue Ridge Protects the HolyRegistered Userregular
Well who would have the money to buy GW and at the same time be trusted to do a better job?
Hasbro? They did good on Dungeons and Dragons.
Haha, what? No, they did exactly the same to D&D as GW is doing to itself; demand results in terms of short term fiscal return without regard to the probability of achieving the given goal without crippling the company long term.
Well who would have the money to buy GW and at the same time be trusted to do a better job?
Hasbro? They did good on Dungeons and Dragons.
Haha, what? No, they did exactly the same to D&D as GW is doing to itself; demand results in terms of short term fiscal return without regard to the probability of achieving the given goal without crippling the company long term.
The thing that crippled D&D as a brand is the OGL. Whatever your opinions on 4th, the game did streamline a lot of the wonkier math that 3.X had. However, for all of those people who felt that 4th "wasn't D&D" (probably one of the most common criticisms of it, which is just a No True Scotsman fallacy), Paizo had the product they wanted and the market split.
GWs biggest problem is that they are a publicly traded company. They can't afford to invest in focus groups, do lengthy rules testing with public feedback, and have a real community presence because none of those things will positively impact the bottom line in the short term and GW's primary interest is keeping its shareholders happy on a quarterly basis.
GWs biggest problem is that they are a publicly traded company. They can't afford to invest in focus groups, do lengthy rules testing with public feedback, and have a real community presence because none of those things will positively impact the bottom line in the short term and GW's primary interest is keeping its shareholders happy on a quarterly basis.
That doesn't make any sense.
There are tons of publicly traded companies that use focus groups.
GW focusing only on short term is not because they're publicly traded, it's because they're publicly traded and Kirby is terrified of slowing growth that will signal a bailout and a complete loss of financials for him before his impending retirement and separation.
Anyone with half a brain would be willing to lose 1/3 of their investors now to sustain growth indefinitely rather than keep that 1/3 and watch growth continually shrink, and eventually disappear.
Everyday I wake up is the worst day of my life.
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VanguardBut now the dream is over. And the insect is awake.Registered User, __BANNED USERSregular
GWs biggest problem is that they are a publicly traded company. They can't afford to invest in focus groups, do lengthy rules testing with public feedback, and have a real community presence because none of those things will positively impact the bottom line in the short term and GW's primary interest is keeping its shareholders happy on a quarterly basis.
That doesn't make any sense.
There are tons of publicly traded companies that use focus groups.
GW focusing only on short term is not because they're publicly traded, it's because they're publicly traded and Kirby is terrified of slowing growth that will signal a bailout and a complete loss of financials for him before his impending retirement and separation.
Anyone with half a brain would be willing to lose 1/3 of their investors now to sustain growth indefinitely rather than keep that 1/3 and watch growth continually shrink, and eventually disappear.
I think you're misreading my comment to think it applies to all publicly traded companies. It does not. It explicitly applies to GW because they are not willing to sacrifice short term profits for long term gain.
The question is whether GW really believes that that don't have any competition. If they believe that then I think it's pretty obvious that that is their biggest problem.
It would explain a lot of otherwise odd decisions.
(Please do not gift. My game bank is already full.)
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VanguardBut now the dream is over. And the insect is awake.Registered User, __BANNED USERSregular
The question is whether GW really believes that that don't have any competition. If they believe that then I think it's pretty obvious that that is their biggest problem.
It would explain a lot of otherwise odd decisions.
I just think they don't know what they're doing. When something is good, they have no idea why. When something is bad, they have no idea why. More importantly, they seem to lack the capacity to understand if something is good or bad.
Posts
This is on page ten of the rulebook "measuring distances"
Nintendo Network ID: AzraelRose
DropBox invite link - get 500MB extra free.
Also, obligatory, "My selling page has been updated" notification.
Buy shit.
[grump]Or at least I used to when Chaos Marines could summon daemons from banners. [/grump]
I Spent 90% of my Money on Women and Warhammer. The Rest I Wasted.
Still, don't let it stop you from running come the apoc allies. I've run imperial assassins and legion of the damned in my chaos list, and I've got an IG tank and ork-reich army on the assembly line.
Not particularly exciting news for anyone who doesn't play Tyranids I suppose, and even then the rules are pretty lack-lustre (which I suppose at least matches the rest of the codex). The Toxicrene is a sort of MC Venomthrope style thing, with shrouded, lash whips and poison, which might see some play as a counter-assault unit. The Malceptor is a psychic, synapse creature with a unique (albeit almost completely unreliable) psychic power.
Malceptor:
The Toxicrene has the same body but with big lashwhips, a lictor style head and toxin sacs instead of brains.
The Malceptor is an Elites choice, around 200pts, with the standard Tyranid MC statline, 5W and a 4+ save.
It's a psyker (lv2) with Synapse and SitW.
It has a unique power 'Psychic Overload' which is WC2, 24" focussed witchfire. The target unit has to make a Ld check on 3D6 (vehicles count as Ld10), if it fails it suffers D3 auto-wounds with ignores cover (or one auto glancing hit with ignores cover). The Malceptor can attempt to manifest this power up to three times per psychic phase, but cannot target the same unit more than once in the same phase. (You may note doing this is more likely to have the Malceptor kill itself via Perils than cause any real damage to the enemy).
The Toxicrene is HS, ~160pts, sam standard statline but at S5 with a 4+ save. 6 attacks base though.
It has shrouded, poison 2+ and Hypertoxic (meaning all its poisoned attacks cause ID on a 6 to wound)
It gets Acid Blood, Lash Whips and Toxic Miasma for free, plus a 'choking cloud' ranged weapon which is 12", S3, AP- Large Blast, Poison 2+, Ignores Cover, Hypertoxic, 'Predatory Sentience' (Gains Armourbane versus vehicles with Open Topped or with less than their max number of hull points).
I just got my batch of http://evilcraft.eu/shop/ minis. I know some of you have been considering getting them but the store was on a hiatus - well now it's back and this shit is totally worth all the money. Details are Forgeworld-level crisp, the sculpts are amazing (except for the bare heads, which are kinda meh) and the poseability is insane - even the hands are separate from the arms!
Sums up just about everything about Tyranids right now.
If they actually made the Haruspex worth using, I'd probably buy one and get some more games in.
It is focused witchfire, so you could pick out individual models if you roll well enough.
At least the pyrovore is good at it's (completely irrelevant) job...
But don't bother trying to single out Psykers for some synergy with SitW; if they're characters they can still just LoS the wounds away!
I felt a little bad that having bought two of the Exocrine/Harupsex kits they both ended up as Exocrines as I do really like the Haruspex model, 6 attacks might have convinced me otherwise.
Least there's not that problem with this kit though, I think the Toxicrene is a much more interesting looking model. The Malceptor just needed an extra rule or so to distinguish itself a little more from just being another large synapse beast - something to emphasise it's role as a synaptic hub rather than a truly awful psychic power.
Toxicrene - Change Shrouded to Venomthrope bubble, 3+ armor. Offers another alternative to Venom/Malan with a combat-orient shrouding option. Armor change allows it to not lose to 10 tac marines in combat.
Malceptor - 3++ invuln, psychic attack WC1, S5. Offers durable synapse/psyker, shitty in combat, useful psychic power, still slow and expensive.
Overwatch - 20 shots, 0.27 wounds through armour (as presumably it'll not be using shrouded on the turn it charges)
I6 step - 7A on the charge, 3.5 hits, 2.9 kills on the marines
I4 step - 8.1A back, 0.44 wounds on the Toxicrene (assuming no powerfist - add 1 wound if there is).
End of I4 - 0.03 wounds due to acid blood (0.25 wounds if there is a powerfist)
I0 step - toxic miasma, it's unlikely the squad isn't all going to be within 3" of the Toxicrine given it's base size (especially if there is two gaps at the front when it's their turn to pile in), so will generally have to move into contact with it. So another 3.5 wounds on the marines, killing 1.16 marines.
Combat results:
Toxicrene - 4.09 dead marines
Tacticals - 0.44 wounds
With a power fist it'll be touch and go as to who kills the other first, as both should be able to achieve this after 3 rounds (though the Tox has the higher initiative and a slight edge). The 4+ plus save I think is a bigger deal against large numbers of attacks, but it's tough enough to take 20 charging slugga boyz with a powerklaw nob on, surviving just long enough to get it's toxic miasma off. I think if it was a giant venomthrope with a shrouding aura it'd be just too expensive because that would be ludicrously good on a base this size and that kind of statline. Tau would still murder it (at least with keeping a 4+ save) but most other armies ignores cover weapons are dangerous enough to small units of Venomthropes but not enough to really bother a monstrous creature.
Malceptor should have been an (old style) Tervigon for synapse creatures, put it alongside warriors to boost their synapse range and give them counter attack/preferred enemy sort of thing. Or a mastery level 2 psychic tank with no unique powers and a much lower points cost - Tyranid powers aren't even all that bad, so just having it chucking out buffs and maledictions would already put it in a different niche than the Zoanthropes.
Even though these two models may not be competitive, I kind of like the strategy of releasing models here and there, rather than having to wait around for codex updates. I hope GW doesn't take the wrong lesson from this if the models don't sell well due to poor rules.
The rules will probably be in the model box as well. They are in the new WHFB kits, or at least the Blightkings, I haven't seen the others.
Even giving the Toxicrene the bubble, I'd still probably take 2 malanthropes over it just on the basis of the 3+ vs 4+.
The Malceptor could've been pretty much anything besides what it is and been better, which is really sad. It's probably the worst thing in the book now.
I'd rather they fail entirely at this point and have a situation like with heroclix where someone comes in, buys it up, and fixes it.
(Please do not gift. My game bank is already full.)
Hasbro? They did good on Dungeons and Dragons.
If they stop making money, the value of the rights will not be prohibitively expensive, and a pair of community college business majors could run the company better. Theyd at least know the value of focus groups.
Haha, what? No, they did exactly the same to D&D as GW is doing to itself; demand results in terms of short term fiscal return without regard to the probability of achieving the given goal without crippling the company long term.
Nintendo Network ID: AzraelRose
DropBox invite link - get 500MB extra free.
B: It's 58 dollars hahahahahaha no.
The thing that crippled D&D as a brand is the OGL. Whatever your opinions on 4th, the game did streamline a lot of the wonkier math that 3.X had. However, for all of those people who felt that 4th "wasn't D&D" (probably one of the most common criticisms of it, which is just a No True Scotsman fallacy), Paizo had the product they wanted and the market split.
GWs biggest problem is that they are a publicly traded company. They can't afford to invest in focus groups, do lengthy rules testing with public feedback, and have a real community presence because none of those things will positively impact the bottom line in the short term and GW's primary interest is keeping its shareholders happy on a quarterly basis.
That doesn't make any sense.
There are tons of publicly traded companies that use focus groups.
GW focusing only on short term is not because they're publicly traded, it's because they're publicly traded and Kirby is terrified of slowing growth that will signal a bailout and a complete loss of financials for him before his impending retirement and separation.
Anyone with half a brain would be willing to lose 1/3 of their investors now to sustain growth indefinitely rather than keep that 1/3 and watch growth continually shrink, and eventually disappear.
I think you're misreading my comment to think it applies to all publicly traded companies. It does not. It explicitly applies to GW because they are not willing to sacrifice short term profits for long term gain.
It would explain a lot of otherwise odd decisions.
(Please do not gift. My game bank is already full.)
I just think they don't know what they're doing. When something is good, they have no idea why. When something is bad, they have no idea why. More importantly, they seem to lack the capacity to understand if something is good or bad.