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Working for the Government: Pros and Cons
Professor Snugglesworth
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
I am currently getting advice at the Job meta thread over at SE++, but as my situation is somewhat unique and at the pursuit of getting as much information as possible, I wanted to ask for advice here.
Since last year, I've been working toward getting employment as a Custom Border Protection Officer. As a Graduate with a Bachelors in Criminal Justice, I was told this would be one of the highest tiers of employment I could attain, and that landing the job would have me "set for life".
Yesterday, I finally received the call I was waiting for, the one that schedules me for the final pre-employment phase, which involves 4 months academy training in Georgia. I would leave home at December this year and come back in May, with my job conveniently placing me at my hometown. It all seems too good to be true.
Which is probably why I'm now hesitating the shit out if it.
I don't always keep up with current politics, as much of it goes over my head and/or is too ridiculous to follow. But with the recent talks about government shutdowns and federal employees paying the price, I started wondering if perhaps this wasn't the best time to go working for the government.
And as I'm currently researching now, the "dream job" I worked to obtain is sounding less and less appealing. One quick Google brings up the topic of payment freezes: http://money.cnn.com/2013/03/15/news/economy/federal-worker-pay-freeze/index.html
Other comments from other forumers bring up similarly worrying statements. Sure, the job description brings up several enticing pay increases, but that information isn't looking like it holds relevance for the current job period. If it takes a CBP officer twice as long to make the same annual salary as a highschool kid working as a manager at Best Buy, then that's a really shitty waste of my Bachelor's degree.
Before this job was something I strived forward because it was better than what I had before: nothing. But since last week I finally broke my years-long stint of unemployment with a current job at the local police department. It's not the best salary, but there are also no shortage of positions I can rise up in, and they tell me my timing is especially great since A) their hiring freeze ended and
a lot of their employees are retiring now.
As a result, part of me wants to put the CBP offer on hold and let this current job stabilize me, while I look for another career (not necessarily government) that offers a more reasonable salary befitting a Bachelor's graduate. Putting four months into a job that won't pay me anything beyond an average salary for a few years sounds like a sucker's bet to me, especially if it means abandoning a decent job I now have that's doing that anyway (technically they're paying less, but they also don't seem restricted by this pay freeze; they even gave me a position on day one that I can apply for that pays the same as CBP).
But again, I'm still researching all this, and could really use advice from those more familiar with the subject than I. Keep in mind I would prefer information that is as objectively factual as possible. No "lol government" responses, please. I want to know exactly what I would be in for, the good and the bad, and decide if I still want to pursue it.
Since last year, I've been working toward getting employment as a Custom Border Protection Officer. As a Graduate with a Bachelors in Criminal Justice, I was told this would be one of the highest tiers of employment I could attain, and that landing the job would have me "set for life".
Yesterday, I finally received the call I was waiting for, the one that schedules me for the final pre-employment phase, which involves 4 months academy training in Georgia. I would leave home at December this year and come back in May, with my job conveniently placing me at my hometown. It all seems too good to be true.
Which is probably why I'm now hesitating the shit out if it.
I don't always keep up with current politics, as much of it goes over my head and/or is too ridiculous to follow. But with the recent talks about government shutdowns and federal employees paying the price, I started wondering if perhaps this wasn't the best time to go working for the government.
And as I'm currently researching now, the "dream job" I worked to obtain is sounding less and less appealing. One quick Google brings up the topic of payment freezes: http://money.cnn.com/2013/03/15/news/economy/federal-worker-pay-freeze/index.html
Other comments from other forumers bring up similarly worrying statements. Sure, the job description brings up several enticing pay increases, but that information isn't looking like it holds relevance for the current job period. If it takes a CBP officer twice as long to make the same annual salary as a highschool kid working as a manager at Best Buy, then that's a really shitty waste of my Bachelor's degree.
Before this job was something I strived forward because it was better than what I had before: nothing. But since last week I finally broke my years-long stint of unemployment with a current job at the local police department. It's not the best salary, but there are also no shortage of positions I can rise up in, and they tell me my timing is especially great since A) their hiring freeze ended and
a lot of their employees are retiring now.As a result, part of me wants to put the CBP offer on hold and let this current job stabilize me, while I look for another career (not necessarily government) that offers a more reasonable salary befitting a Bachelor's graduate. Putting four months into a job that won't pay me anything beyond an average salary for a few years sounds like a sucker's bet to me, especially if it means abandoning a decent job I now have that's doing that anyway (technically they're paying less, but they also don't seem restricted by this pay freeze; they even gave me a position on day one that I can apply for that pays the same as CBP).
But again, I'm still researching all this, and could really use advice from those more familiar with the subject than I. Keep in mind I would prefer information that is as objectively factual as possible. No "lol government" responses, please. I want to know exactly what I would be in for, the good and the bad, and decide if I still want to pursue it.
Professor Snugglesworth on
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Second, which gives you better benefits with healthcare, your local/state agency you are currently with or the federal position. Almost all state and federal jobs appear to have depressed pay (with the exception of appointee jobs or those in the Virginia/Maryland federal cluster) but more than make up for it with free or very cheap healthcare and other perks (education tuition support, housing allotments, etc). Have you done the research to see how much these change your total pay in comparison with the two positions?
As far as the actual work goes, which is more in line with what you want to do 7 years down the road? Government work typically pays off over time, with upgrades and position promotions requiring history in the field in addition to good networking to get those better jobs. In many cases, you will need to leap-frog between comparable agencies to climb upwards in similar fields (from one percent to another, from one customs post to another, ect) as some types of government work does not allow internal promotion. Because of this, knowing which type of work you are content with working for a longer period of time, to the extent of changing locations for promotion, is pretty important.
Do either of the positions have tenure requirements (hire means you stay for x years, etc)? This is a big item. Does either allow for family support?
A lot of questions here to answer, but a lot of it really needs to be taken into consideration. Government work is typically lower paying with greater stability and benefits. The stability in pay (barring stupid federal-level shutdowns like this) is compromised with that stability stretching to promotion, making it more difficult to rise up (or, on the other hand, be fired or demoted either).
2nd, federal employees generally take home less pay than their private sector equivalents, and they do so because they value the complete compensation package: job security, state holidays, leave accrual, better ability to do a regional transfer, health insurance, dental/eye care program, and (among other retirement programs) a defined benefits pension.
As for the pay freeze referenced that article, federal freezes and furloughs seem to lag private sector. While the situations/sectors will vary we (private sector) had pay freezes instituted 2 years before the federal pay freezes put in place at end of 2010. But we've also already had hiring freeze lifted and pay raises while feds are currently under a freeze. I'd think any agency under DHS would be considered "essential" and would not be nearly as affected by the federal lockout as non-essential agencies.
Comparison to local PD is more complicated. As state employees likely also have good health and retirement benefits. I would compare the complete compensation package of the local PD job to the CBP job. If that analysis doesn't make the choice obvious then if the local economy is doing better than the federal average then I'd stick with local state job, if worse then I'd look seriously at federal.
For the pay stuff, looking up the pay for Border Protection Officer (BPO) seems very straightforward. http://archive.opm.gov/oca/08tables/indexGS.asp lists the pay you will receive. BPO's per their website start at either a GS-5, 7, or 9 salary. I'll assume you are going in as a 7 as that is pretty standard for a bachelor's degree, which means in about 3 years per their website, you would be promoted to a GS-12 and make a salary based on where you live. I don't know where you live, but for instance if you were in LA, a GS-12 employee starts at $72k/year.
According to their site, promotions above that are "merit based" which means they are available but may involve going into management, etc. So certainly possible to advance higher, but don't count on it.
Once you get in that GS-12, you will start getting "step" increases per year. You get the first four every year, then the next three every two years, then the last two every three years. So, all other things being equal, you could figure in 2020 your salary would be $79,500.
I can't tell you whether that would qualify for you as "set for life" or not...for some people that would be a gift from heaven to have that salary w/ benefits and others would say that was barely enough to scrape by. The nice thing about the Government is that it is fairly stable and predictable, so you can have a good idea of where you are heading salary-wise.
In my experience, that would be a very strong salary in comparison to something in local or state Government. If you were a police officer, maybe not, as you are figuring in lots of overtime etc, but for a non law enforcement job w/ local/state Govt, that seems to me to be a fairly good salary.
The "pay freeze" you hear about does not involve any of the things I discussed above. Rather, it involves a cost of living increase that historically came into effect every year. This was an across the board raise on Government salaries to keep up w/ inflation, and in my experience was usually around 2 - 3% per year. The "pay freeze" has suspended these for the last 3 years. Other promotions (step increases, GS increases) have occurred.
Your four months training should be paid at some level (I'm assuming this is at FLETC?) although maybe a reduced salary till you graduate.
I have not experienced any direct "screw you government leech" type things from Tea party types, but I also live in the D.C. region where there are millions of Feds so YMMV depending on where you are. I can say that in a lot of little ways it is defintiely noticeable that there is a small government philosphy on the rise, and we are definitely being asked to do more with less in this sequestration time, plus today's beginning of the shutdown. Still, even with all that I feel the job is dramatically more stable than a private sector one where you can generally be fired at will in many cases.
Happy to try to answer more questions if I can.
What pay range would you expect that to be? Because this strikes me as you thinking that a Bachelor's degree means a lot out in the work field, and while I'm sure there are exceptions(and yes, a BA is better than nothing), I don't think employers look at it as anything REALLY big or worth a super high salary.
Also to echo noir_blood's point, unless you're lucky/savvy enough to be working towards a specialized bachelor's degree with expectation of going into a specialized field requiring said specialized degree, beating yourself up about not earning a "salary befitting a bachelor's graduate" is not entirely productive given the state of the economy the past several years (unless of course that salary is minimum/slave wage rates). Having the bachelor's degree (at least in monetary terms) should be viewed more as ever-so-slightly leaning the odds towards your favor in lifetime earnings (as college graduates have generally experienced shorter/minimal amounts of unemployment, greater chance of being promoted, etc). It is not a piece of paper that prints money despite our parents' generation trying to sell it as such (hint it's meant to signify you've spent a certain amount of time studying academic things at an advanced level); a mindset which has now partially contributed to the phenomenon of employers treating it as the new high school diploma.
That may be worth taking into consideration, someone else will probably know.
GS-5 is what they said I would start as.
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I know someone who took a fairly significant paycut to get a defined benefits pension plan. And I would consider doing the same.
Maybe I should double check with the recruiter, in addition to looking at other jobs that my start me higher.
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Is this job better than the job you have now?
That might be the only question that matters; with the way things are now getting a job offer is kind of a big deal and it's way easier to look for a better job once you have a good job than it is to look for a better job while you have a lousy job. Hardly anybody sits in one job for their whole careers now so if the job you're being offered is better than what you have why not take it and get everything you can out of it and if you decide you want a different job then at least you'll be doing it from a position of relative security.
CBP has a site explaining their typical benefits, too. Assuming it's a full-time job, you should be eligible for most of this stuff.
As far as compensation and benefits (I'm assuming, haven't seen the benefits of my current job yet). it's better. Not by a significant amount, but better.
The thing is that there is already potential to grow in the department I'm in now. In the first day of hire there was already a new job posting that I'm eligible for that pays more than CBP (at GS-5 anyway), and this week there are five new positions as of this writing. Like they said, a lot of positions are opening up within the police department due to mass retires. And I've already got a handle for the atmosphere and people there, so it's a place I could see myself staying in.
All of this second-guessing I'm having would go right out the window if I was starting at GS-7. I'll certainly get in touch with the recruiter (or a recruiter, as it hasn't been the same person twice) tomorrow and have them double-check, and also ask if there are other positions I'm qualified for.
I'll also stop by the HR department at my current job and ask what other positions I would be qualified for with my current credentials.
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A GS-5 is about $15-17/hr and that's about ~$35k a year before taxes.
Regardless, you should think about this based on the future, not just right now. You say
and based on that I think I would advise you to take the job, even at a GS-5. Remember, according to what I'm reading on their website (you should confirm this w/ your recruiter) after your 6 1/2 month probationary period you are going to be promoted to a GS-7.
A year later, as long as you show up everyday and don't commit some gross malfeasance, you are going to get promoted to a GS-9. A year later you are going to be promoted to a GS-11. A year later you are going to be promoted to a GS-12. I would be very surprised if the local Police Department offers such a steady, secure promotion track that would match this. I would be shocked if Best Buy did.
This isn't really true as a standard, anymore. There's an overabundance of cleared personnel these days with the drawdown of the military, so the value of a clearance has plummeted. It's still true, though, that putting in 5 years at an agency, getting well connected and learning the work can then lead to a gig as a contractor, but it's only true for the top performers/networkers.
I haven't been around the Fed civilian side, but most of the guys I know go years without seeing an increase in grade. I know one dude who is at 11 Step 5 or 6, and he just got a whole different skill set he has to become expert on before he can even be considered for getting 12. He's a really rad dude, and has put up with them extending the hurdles for a while now.
I think I made a mistake when looking into this, the guidance I was looking at was for a CBP Border Patrol Agent. A CBP Officer (the guys checking you out when you enter the U.S.) actually cap out in the non supervisory role as a GS-11. The promotion should still be the same (GS-5 -> GS-7 -> GS-9 -> GS-11) with one year in between, but you need to confirm all this with your recruiter if possible.
Other things to ask that could impact salary are as follows:
1) Most (all?) federal law enforcement get Law Enforcement Availability Pay (LEAP) which is a 25% increase in salary, based upon the idea that you are always on duty and frequently work more/unexpected hours. I don't know if this applies to CBP Officers who I would think would have fairly routine schedules, but would be good to know as that's alot of money.
2) This is the kind of job that is frequently done on nights/weekends. Federal law requires you to be paid Night Differential and Sunday pay for working in those times, so earning potential could be higher if you were willing to take on those shifts. I don't think Night Dif is that much but Sunday pay is a significant bump, as is holiday pay.
As great as all these pay raises sound, the big question I have is whether these grade-raising policies are still in effect given the current political situation. I tried calling the recruitment number today to clarify some of this, and I got sent to voice mail. The message mentioned that no one may be able to take my call if Furlough is in effect.
Not a good sign.
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grade raising policies are still in affect so long as they are automatic.
most of the time, you will be hired as an 'intern' with a working level as your goal. it may be a GS 7,9,10 12 etc whatever it is.
you will get pay raises at a certain rate called grade increases until you reach that level at which point in order to go further you will have to be selected competitively
I'm a seasonal GS-5 with the Forest Service. Qualifying for a GS-6 position or higher with only a bachelors requires some amount of federal experience at a lower pay grade. Don't be miffed if you "only" get hired on as a GS-5. I manage employees who have been working as GS-3s for years and are psyched when they get bumped to GS-4. The starting salary for a standard GS-5 is 15.00/hr and has been for the past 3 years since federal pay has been frozen.
Many of the people I work with in the USFS have been at their same pay grade for many many long years. My boss has been working in his position for 25 years and will be retiring next year. It's far from the private sector, you can't expect any kind of pay bump or new job to just be handed to you. Almost any job that is created will be advertised for nationally and made available to anyone. Even if your supervisor wants to hire you for a new position their hands may be tied and they have to offer the job to someone else. Just the way hiring works with the federal government.