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The PA Report - Without the dark there can be no light: what would have happened in Space Marine 2 a

DogDog Registered User, Administrator, Vanilla Staff admin

imageThe PA Report - Without the dark there can be no light: what would have happened in Space Marine 2 and 3

Space Marine is a wonderful game. The story was interesting, the characters were above average for an action title, and the feeling of cutting through ork after ork with your melee weapons was exceptional. If you’re interested in a bit of the ol’ ultraviolence and need to work out some aggression, it’s still worth picking up and playing.

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  • SushewakkaSushewakka Registered User regular
    edited October 2013
    Well that sounds... not too good. The setup at the end of SPEESH MEHREEN was perfect for having thew second game revolve around the Deathwatch, the SPEESH MEHREEN chapter consisting of handpicked SPEESH MEHREENS across all chapters by the Ordo Xenos to fight their wars. The setup presented here, however, makes little sense.

    Sushewakka on
  • TiberiusEsuriensTiberiusEsuriens Registered User regular
    Somebody give this guy rights to make those games. My friends got me drinking and made me beat it on hard, which turned out to be an absolute blast. My only wish for 40K games is that someday they'll try to make another not-space-marine game. I know they don't do the greatest financially, but there's only so much manly grizzled death machine gaming I can take. I'd have preferred a story about downfall, where going rogue/getting kicked out corrupted his soul, giving him demonic powers. Even if he stayed pure at least link his resistance to being a psyker. I'm imagining The Forced Unleashed (the first) but with Titus' executions. Now that's something I could get behind.

  • PrimeDerektivePrimeDerektive Registered User regular
    I didn't play through the campaign, but god damn, I played dozens and dozens of hours of multiplayer on PC. That game was super underrated as a competitive shooter.

  • MakaiskorpioMakaiskorpio Registered User regular
    I love, LOVED that game, but at the same time....that arc that he described is pretty similar to the one in the Ultramarine Novels. Captain Uriel Ventris. After leaving his squad to join a deathwatch, he is considered in revolt of the codes of the ultramarines and is exiled and forced to do a "Death Oath" (basically a suicide mission to die with honor), but he survives and returns with honors.

    So, it would have been pretty similar and this would have made less sense in the lore.

  • ThomasEllaThomasElla Registered User regular
    "Space Marine is a wonderful game."

    Eh. I tried playing it when it came out for free on PS Plus and just couldn't get into it. My housemates and I occasionally would pass off control and laugh and make fun of the accents and just how often the enemies shouted "SPACE MARINE" and "GOTTA GET THOSE SPACE MARINES" in their goofy pirate accents or whatever, but ultimately, it just wasn't interesting enough to keep our attention for more than a couple hours. We still had fun whenever I'd pass it in the menu and yell "SPACE MARINE" at each other, but that's about it.

    It's cool that the guy elaborated on where the story would go for those who care though. Always sucks when something ends on a cliffhanger and never returns.

  • Fixer40000Fixer40000 Registered User regular
    Space Marine was a great game... to start.
    I liked Space Marine, it made the Ultramarines likable and interesting after the travesty and damage that Matt "Spiritual Leige" Ward's 5th edition fanboy praise had done to them. Titus not having a giant stick up his ass regarding the rigid rules of the codex was a nice touch.

    Probably the best representation of the Adeptus Astartes in regards to how their power and presence is in the lore. Marines move like a freakin tank and drop from the skies like angels of death in a ton of ceramite armour.

    The game's problem
    It's problem was repetition. Swapping between melee and ranged was fluid and gratifying but eventually every fight was fought the same way.
    Attack combo, stun, execute, attack combo, stun, execute.

    Even the latter enemies that game in were more of the same sort of thing, only bigger and with more hitpoints.

    In the end, it was the start of a great AAA title that was just missing something to make it complete.

    Have left PA forums.
    If this community believes that hating someone based soley upon their gender is acceptable and understandable, I have no interest in being a part of it.
  • FrenchToastWaffleFrenchToastWaffle Registered User regular
    I really unexpectedly loved Space Marine, so it's disappointing that we won't see a sequel. At least this article answers some questions about where the story was heading.

  • WhyroonWhyroon Registered User regular
    I would love to read a 'what would have happened' for the Freespace series, talk about a great story with an unresolved cliffhanger... You start out fighting a galactic war with an alien race but soon form a tentative alliance with that enemy in the face of a common foe: the utterly hostile and technologically superior Shivans, who then spend the better part of two games kicking your arse. By the end of the second game you've been forced to destroy the only means of ever reaching Earth, seen every significant move to gain an edge in the war swatted aside (including what many Freespace fans will tell you is the best single level in any game they've played, where you travel behind enemy lines in a captured fighter and discover that the juggernaut class ship you just spent half the game destroying, breaking the back of the allied forces in the process, is but one of many, many juggernauts heading your way), and finally fought with the remnants of your fleet to defend the ragged evacuation of a star system during which battle the Shivan juggernaut armada shows up and causes the local star to go supernova giving you the choice of staying and fighting to your inevitable death or fleeing along with the pitiful remains of the Galactic Terran Vasudan Alliance...

    The end.

    A smash hit with the critics that got terrible sales numbers and so that's where the story rests. Luke's hand has been cut off, Darth Vader is his father, Han's in carbonite and the Empire has the rebels on the run. The end.

    Freespace was made by Volition right? They're still alive and kicking, would they tell you how it would have ended? Or better yet, just ask them to make Freespace 3 please?

    Seriously.

  • OnmitsuOnmitsu I'm just a birdie Ca-caw, ca-caw!Registered User regular
    HEY BEN: SPOILER ALERT BEFORE YOU SAY WHAT HAPPENS TO THE MAIN CHARACTER AT THE END OF THE STORY, JERK. Seriously, though, this game is on my backlog and next on my list after I beat the game I'm currently playing. Mark that stuff better!

    Man, even Dora the Explorer thinks you're slow.
  • MutonMuton Registered User regular
    @WHYROON - Volition is a development house that historically was owned by publishers; typically under those arrangements the developer is assigned to make games but the franchise and IP is owned by the publisher. So yes, Volition made Freespace but they didn't own it, it was and still is owned by Interplay. Interplay hit financial troubles and sold Volition to THQ, but kept the IP, so Volition could not continue to work on the Freespace franchise.

    Interplay hit financial troubles (part of the reason of the sale) around 2004 and decided to not develop games anymore; they haven't developed a game since 2004. Instead they license their IPs to other developers to make; Fallout was licensed to Bethesda, but was later sold. Interplay owns all the rights to the Freespace brand but are focused on smaller Android games now and a new Post-Apocolyptic MMO (similar to Fallout Online but it's not Fallout because they don't own the rights to it anymore). Freespace is kind of dead right now.

    Meanwhile Volition was told by their new owners THQ to make a new games, which became Saints Row and Red Faction. In the wake of THQ's bankruptcy, they were sold to Deep Silver, a German publisher, and no word on what they're working on since Saint's Row 4's release.

    It's kind of tough to watch; that much ownership upheaval is really damaging to a company. Volition in particular is a real shame, because I've played not every game but every franchise they've made: they did Descent and Descent 2, Freespace and Freespace 2, Summoner and Summoner 2, Red Faction, and Saints Row, and without question every single one was interesting, unique and amazing. Fortunately they've come through every time and make a good game, but it'd be great if they could just be left alone to make stuff.

  • KolyarutKolyarut Registered User regular
    @ONMITSU To be fair, the headline was kind of a spoiler alert, no?

    It's interesting how this game seems to have split people. Even as a lifelong 40k fan I couldn't get too far into this game (I got bored and sloppy fighting what felt like the thousandth wave of orks, accidentally got myself blown up, and went back to a checkpoint 10+ fights ago, threw up my hands and said "done!"), and the last attempt at a 40k shooter (2003's Fire Warrior) was equally brimming with potential it never quite managed to deliver on.

    I'm still hoping to be wowed by a non-strategy 40k title. Was hoping that was going to be Dark Millenium, but again, THQ went kaplooeey. Kind of amazed there hasn't been a decent Inquisitor-themed title yet. Take the Inquisitor girl from DoW2:R, give her a small retinue to talk to and some fun psyker powers, and you'd totally have a game there, right?

  • TiberiusEsuriensTiberiusEsuriens Registered User regular
    @OMNITSU
    Sorry you got the spoilers, but if you were remotely familiar with 40K at all you'd know that was where it was heading anyways. It's a good property, but the stories always are incredibly formulaic. I've never seen the property execute a good plot twist either.

  • itchy richitchy rich Registered User regular
    edited October 2013
    Yeah, these spoilers are barely spoilers, much like star wars properties where jedi get tempted by the dark side. Not a twist that's a surprise to most! I love the 40k universe much in the way I love conan the barbarian, and neither love is borne because of my affinity for subtlety or surprise. It's more of an 'axe cleaves skull' sort of love.

    itchy rich on
  • JhooudJhooud Registered User regular
    I thought the game was great fun. A pity there weren't bots for the multiplayer modes, or I'd still be firing it up. Wish we could've seen the story through to the end, though.

  • jedidethfreakjedidethfreak Registered User regular
    I take it, then, that the 40k license wasn't available for sale when THQ died?

    Wind Fish in name only, for it is neither.
  • ExcaliburproxyExcaliburproxy Registered User regular
    I loved the story and multiplier in Space Marine. I am super sad.

    Excaliburproxy: Walking death machine on wheels.
  • BillzkriegBillzkrieg Registered User regular
    Looooooooved Space Marine! One of the best shooters of this past generation. I'm actually really glad it didn't get a sequel though. The game told it's story and wrapped up perfectly fine. Was it the super mega happy ending where the valiant hero wins? No, but that's exactly what was great about it. After all his struggle against the Orks and Chaos in loyal service to his people, Titus finally stands victorious only to be placed under arrest because the very people he fought for are panicky, xenophobic, and have no loyalty to him. It was brilliant and I wish more games had the courage to do more than the "Hero struggles against all odds, emerges victorious, and then lives happily ever after showered in fame, fortune, and blowjobs". On that note, I wish more games would tell self contained stories that didn't get unnecessarily dragged out in sequels.

    Oh, and I'm echoing what's been said here but seriously Ben: What's up with the spoiler tag after you explain the end of the game. If I hadn't played it yet I'd be righteously pissed off about that.

  • mato-andrewmato-andrew Registered User regular
    This game has an incredible soundtrack. Even if you're not someone who likes the game, the soundtrack itself is amazing. Highly recommend checking it out.

    They're gathered like wolves on the boardwalk below, howling for answers no wolves can know!
  • RedthirstRedthirst Registered User regular
    Nah, he will be fine. He will be scanned by a couple of powerful psykers and they won't find anything(unless he is actually corrupted by Chaos, haven't played the game). The thing is, he can't be psyker, nor he can be an Untouchable, because he was very carefuly tested before he became Space Marine. If he was a psyker, he would have been a Librarian long ago.
    Oh, and by the way: did he fought in open space(or it was warp?) without his helmet on? I mean, come on, he is still human, he can't live without air. And why does this inquisitor as tall as Space Marines around him? Its not Power Armor that makes Space Marines tall, its just that they're taller than normal humans, and if an inqusitor or one of Adepta Sororitas gets a Power Armor suit, it is designed specificaly for them.

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  • JhazJhaz Registered User regular
    I've been jonesing to replay Space Marine, and this may provide the incentive. Such an underrated game. Absurd amounts of fun (Seriously, does the Thunder Hammer ever stop being a blast?), okay story, and a great lead character. Titus just seemed like such a decent guy, which is a rarity in the 40k universe, or at least the corners I've experienced of it.

    I've been holding out a flicker of hope that Space Marine would somehow get a sequel; I guess that's never going to happen. Ah well.

  • itchy richitchy rich Registered User regular
    @JediDethFreak one can only assume that Games Workshop could do whatever they wanted with 40k, but the creators of this specific game are now involved with other projects.

  • Mike FehlauerMike Fehlauer Registered User, Penny Arcade Staff regular
    Thanks for this, Ben. Space Marine was an incredible game. I'm glad to know, if not play, the ending.

  • JhazJhaz Registered User regular
    @Redthirst: The bit where he's fighting the Demon Prince takes place as they're falling from a crumbling space elevator where the Warp was beginning to tear through into reality thanks to the Chaos Marines' actions.

  • KolyarutKolyarut Registered User regular
    @Redthirst Marines fighting helmetless pops up from time to time in the canon, and Space Marines just really are that hardcore. That's more or less the end of it. Fluff-wise, they have bioenhanced systems that allow them to hyperoxygenate their bloodstream all the while air is available and keep running on reserves, along with enhanced skin and bones that can survive the decompression, but it's all fake science if we're honest. The best explanations are a) it's cool, and b) Space Marines are Batman and can breathe in space. http://www.shortpacked.com/2005/comic/book-1-brings-back-the-80s/01-just-a-toy-store/batman-can-breathe-in-space/

  • TiberiusEsuriensTiberiusEsuriens Registered User regular
    @JHAZ
    Combine that with bare-skin physical contact with that warp generator thingy. The second they point out we should have died my reaction was pretty much, "Welp, obviously I'm a demon." The entire game is pushing to a final conflict with Titus' warp corruption, but now that we know the intended sequel plot that kind of falls flat (I liked the story in my head better).

  • RedthirstRedthirst Registered User regular
    Hm, he killed Daemon Prince in hand-to-hand combat. Maybe Ben Counter was the one who wrote the sript for this game. I remember that over the course of two of his books, Space Marines killed three Daemon Princes.
    And question to those who have played the game: do they have some explanations about him being immune to Chaos influence? I already got one variant in my previous post(him being an Untouchable), but it seems literally impossible.

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  • BrinkmanBrinkman Registered User regular
    Ben promoting Steam? 0.o I was expecting a link to the developers website ;-)

    It does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. -Thomas Jefferson
  • nturchinnturchin Registered User regular
    I actually felt like the ending of Space Marine kinda fit with the whole WH 40K universe. I liked it, in fact, I loved it. That universe is all about impartial brutality at it's most unimaginable. What's more fitting then than to take this super hero, the very embodiment of all that's best in humanity and crush him under the uncaring heel of the bureaucracy? In my story, Titus saved the world, and was destroyed by the Emperor for it. But hey that's just a typical day in the Imperium. Making him some kind of rock star, free agent who comes back and teaches the unbending hierarchy a lesson seems like a cop out to me.

  • JhazJhaz Registered User regular
    @Tiberiusesuriens: It is kind of hard to figure out a way for Titus' chaos resistance to fit in with 40K without it being a disaster: If he's an undetected psycher or untouchable that somehow slipped through, then the Ultramarines as a whole are in serious trouble, him being corrupted doesn't fit at all with the character in the game (not to mention being profoundly unsatisfying to players), and anything short of 'he's actually the Emperor's Champion and I mean that literally the God-Emperor is shielding him from Chaos'... could actually work. Wouldn't be all that far off of some of the crazy things Sisters of battle can do though their faith.

    Ooh! Maybe his Iron Halo is a really great relic of some Primarch or another and no one noticed!

  • britboyjbritboyj Registered User regular
    Ugh. I’ve played 40k for DECADES and thank goodness the rights stayed with Relic/reverted to GW and will get something consistent with the universe done with them. Titus’ resistence to Chaos is nothing special. Lysander, while judged and tested, was equally resilient. Having him ‘go rogue’ and then come and ‘clean house’ is ridiculous and asinine.

    Given the pains Relic took to make Space Marine gel with the universe of 40k, I’m glad van Lierop’s plans didn’t come to pass. He clearly has only a basic understanding of the setting and what any of the plot points in the game actually meant.

    The end of the game frustrated me. The Adeptus Astartes are not under the jurisdiction of the Inquisitorial Remit. Titus could have literally walked off and given the finger to the Inquisitor and disciplined his snotty little Initiate later. The fact that we had a SPACE MARINE who basically snitched on his battle brother to an outside agency (instead of the Chapter Librarius) is ridiculous. The Black Templars wouldn’t have been under the sway of an Inquisitor either, they’re not exactly known for being helpful or answering questions for Inquisitors – they do openly flout the Codex and pretty much all Imperial authority.

    Seriously, van Lierop, please stay away. Space Marine was great for those of us that have wanted that game since we were young, but it seems it was enjoyable in spite of him, not because of him.

  • RedthirstRedthirst Registered User regular
    edited October 2013
    @Britboyj
    Well, techinically every organisation in Imperium should obey the orders of Inquisition.
    But even so, Titus should be delivered to Ultramar.
    And I highily doubt that an inquisitor in his sane mind would threaten one of the Adeptus Astartes.(But judging by his physical appearence, this inquisitor is a Space Marine himself)
    And in no way would one of Titus's battle brothers tell Inquisition that he is tainted by Chaos. He would rather capture Titus by himself to deliver him to Ultramar and there accuse him of corruption.
    He would survive, and come back even stronger in the third game, where other Space Marines still loyal to him would rally around him and he'd return to ‘clean house,’ but as the head of a brand new Chapter that we would build around him,” van Lierop continued.
    What the hell is he talking about? Does he even know the rules of the setting?

    Redthirst on
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  • The Bad VoodooThe Bad Voodoo Registered User regular
    This is my new favorite thread. The primordial geek ooze just squeezing out of most of the comments here makes me feel all warm and fuzzy. Don't ever stop, y'all. (absolutely no sarcasm whatsoever, I love this crap)

  • RedthirstRedthirst Registered User regular
    @The Bad Voodoo
    I just read my previous post from the point-of-view of someone unfamiliar with WH40k setting... Holy shit

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  • SchizzySchizzy Registered User new member
    This didn't being me closure. This filled me with sadness... eternal, painful, wrist-cutting sadness. :'(

  • SushewakkaSushewakka Registered User regular
    You people keep spelling SPEESH MEHREEN wrong.

  • Fixer40000Fixer40000 Registered User regular
    @Sushewakka I'll fix it.
    df_d.jpg

    Have left PA forums.
    If this community believes that hating someone based soley upon their gender is acceptable and understandable, I have no interest in being a part of it.
  • JhazJhaz Registered User regular
    Hey, for the folks freaked out about all that 'brand new chapter' bit, remember that this is all what he was spitballing. Given how protective and controlling of their IP Games Workshop is, I'm positive someone at GW would have had to approve the story before it would be made. There's no way Titus would have gotten his own chapter (With blackjack! And hookers!), but it probably would have been interesting.

  • StrykStryk Registered User new member
    I can't believe I missed your review @ Ars. I researched this game pretty heavily before deciding to buy it, I thought I had read most of the reviews. Anyway, I'm happy to see that I'm not the only one that considers Space Marine to be one of the hidden gems. This title was overlooked and not given a whole lot of time in the spotlight, and although I played in on PS3 and your review was for PC, I had a very similar, and very (somewhat surprisingly) positive, experience. This game is absolutely worth picking up, and can be found on the cheap for PS3/360 these days. I highly recommend it to any third-person action fan. And Vanquish. Get Vanquish too.

  • zpoczpoc Registered User regular
    i really liked this game for the first few hours, but it really started to drag after a while. i think i must have been near the end of the game when i finally just gave up - i realized how little fun i was actually having while playing.

  • NinjarifficNinjariffic Registered User regular
    I'm sorry, but ending a game with cliffhanger makes you an arse. It's possible to give a game a proper ending and still leave an opening for a sequel. If holding back the ending is the only way you can bring people back then you're not a very good writer.

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