Reinstalled this game in prep for the new release. I think I might replay it so I can experience the DLC missions at the very least. Never did that before.
Any mods out there I should look at? I saw mention of Long War.
Reinstalled this game in prep for the new release. I think I might replay it so I can experience the DLC missions at the very least. Never did that before.
Any mods out there I should look at? I saw mention of Long War.
I haven't tried any mods besides the Long War, but I like it.
Reinstalled this game in prep for the new release. I think I might replay it so I can experience the DLC missions at the very least. Never did that before.
Any mods out there I should look at? I saw mention of Long War.
There's also "Merciless", which is a difficulty mod that makes things a lot easier, if you're just in the game for a cinematic experience.
So, just got UFO Defense. Having gotten my transfers from the Empire's ground forces, seen them slaughtered, and then reverted, what are some basic things I should do to give me a fighting chance?
Imagine every guy you have represents a squad of dudes. There the game is now 'epic' again. *Eurogamer opinion*
Seriously though slowing the game down or mudding down the forced meaningful decisions would go anathema to the design of the game. You're after total war or one of the fantasy turn based strategy games with big armies.
So, just got UFO Defense. Having gotten my transfers from the Empire's ground forces, seen them slaughtered, and then reverted, what are some basic things I should do to give me a fighting chance?
Basically the same as the new XCOM - hold back with snipers, spot for them with other squad members, and unload on the aliens from far away to try to keep from getting killed. If you're interested I have a three part tutorial for the game and part 2 is gameplay basics.
So, just got UFO Defense. Having gotten my transfers from the Empire's ground forces, seen them slaughtered, and then reverted, what are some basic things I should do to give me a fighting chance?
The correct first time way to play is to struggle through having no idea what is going on. That's how we learned, and how you should.
I mentioned it once before, but I once lost a game of UFO defense by running out of Eridium to power my interceptors, and my basic ones weren't fast enough to catch the upper tier UFOs...
Out of gas, lose the Earf.
XCOM!
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wiltingI had fun once and it was awfulRegistered Userregular
edited October 2013
I avoided using the fancy ships because they suck up ELERIUM.
So, just got UFO Defense. Having gotten my transfers from the Empire's ground forces, seen them slaughtered, and then reverted, what are some basic things I should do to give me a fighting chance?
The correct first time way to play is to struggle through having no idea what is going on. That's how we learned, and how you should.
Sorry, watched the pigeon's videos already. Quite handy, now I realize that "left hand' doesn't mean "strapped across their chest." That would explain the whole thing where three rounds worth of squad fire can't hit a single sectoid.
So, just got UFO Defense. Having gotten my transfers from the Empire's ground forces, seen them slaughtered, and then reverted, what are some basic things I should do to give me a fighting chance?
The correct first time way to play is to struggle through having no idea what is going on. That's how we learned, and how you should.
Sorry, watched the pigeon's videos already. Quite handy, now I realize that "left hand' doesn't mean "strapped across their chest." That would explain the whole thing where three rounds worth of squad fire can't hit a single sectoid.
Well, the three rounds of "can't hit shit" is pretty much just X-COM being X-COM.
I do miss those tactics from XCOM. Stuff like using interceptors as temporary radar hotspots, or shadowing UFOs with skyrangers to catch them while they're grounded.
So, just got UFO Defense. Having gotten my transfers from the Empire's ground forces, seen them slaughtered, and then reverted, what are some basic things I should do to give me a fighting chance?
The correct first time way to play is to struggle through having no idea what is going on. That's how we learned, and how you should.
Sorry, watched the pigeon's videos already. Quite handy, now I realize that "left hand' doesn't mean "strapped across their chest." That would explain the whole thing where three rounds worth of squad fire can't hit a single sectoid.
Welcome to X-com. Where your scientists are amazing, and your soldiers have never held a gun before!
I realize that "That's XCOM, baby!," but that level of incompetence would be ridiculous if it was standard. It was like, four, five shots a round at something maybe four tiles away.
So, playing on beginner, two successful missions in, lasers are in production, and en-route to my first terror mission. This is where thing typically go to hell, right?
Last mission was kinda funny. After losing everyone except two guys the previous mission, I shot down a small ship, flew my skyranger over, killed one grey, and won the mission. It was kinda funny, I definitely was expecting more of a fight.
Yeah, the base accuracy of your units in the new XCOM (never played the others) just means I can never, ever think of my guys as elite soldiers that volunteered for the team.
These guys are crap. Maybe we got the janitorial staff of a shut down army base somewhere or something.
I mean, obviously its a video game so its an abstraction, but really, their starting accuracy is just abysmal.
Put it this way. The accuracy in new Xcom is miles better than original X-com. Partly because in the new one, distance changes hit percentage. In the old one, it doesn't. A 20% chance to hit is a 20% change to hit no matter where you are in relation to the alien.
The turn based time unit nature of the game makes your people look like terrible shots, but if you think about it, presumably what's actually going on is that your people are firing at aliens for the split second they're in their sights - if you miss three shots and then it's the alien's turn, you can imagine that as having taken three quick shots at an alien that was moving the entire time: just add together the movement from its last turn and the movement it takes after you've missed. Also keep in mind that if you move and then shoot with your X-COM people, it's sort of like they're firing on the run/firing after just having stopped running.
Basically, turn based games are very hard to think of as "actual" combat, but presumably if you put it all together it would make sense. A game like Frozen Synapse also portrays people with bad accuracy, but they fire so fast that it seems perfectly normal. If you compressed an entire X-COM mission into the time it would "actually" last in real life, all those missed shots barely even register: your people end up being more accurate than a lot of real life soldiers, I think.
A lot of that is suppressing fire at targets that can't even be seen, AND a lot of those statistic including training bullets, so that does skew things as well.
edit: guess I was already on there from last time. nice.
I won't be able to play for a while, but everyone feel free to add me into your squads and @ me in your AARs
also, why does gender only matter for Russians in that form? wut?
Russian surnames are separated by gender. Why? Dunno.
It's because traditionally, some Russian men's names end in i while some Russian women's names end in a. So Vladimir Portalski's daughter would be Svetlana Portalska.
My recruits end up being a lot less accurate on things like flanked targets than I do in real life playing paintball, and that's just something I do (well did) for fun, it ain't my job.
I understand that it's turn based and its an abstraction. And when a unit runs out into the open on one turn, and runs into cover on the next, its not like they were actually standing out in the open not moving, etc. But when one of my guys like, fully flanks someone who has been stationary behind cover? And my guy still only had a 65% chance to hit? Well, that is not a trained soldier. That's a guy who is still figuring out what end of his gun points at the bad guys. Which is why the XCOM being an elite organization of crack volunteers (which is how some people like to think of their dudes) doesn't gel with me.
Yeah, the base accuracy of your units in the new XCOM (never played the others) just means I can never, ever think of my guys as elite soldiers that volunteered for the team.
As TychoCelchuuu pretty much explains though, if you try to imagine how a typical XCOM battle would be like if you converted it to real time, then you see that your soldiers are in fact somewhat more accurate than the average soldier.
For an example of how hilarious accuracy can be IRL, take this example:
On September 23, 1989, in the Hilltop neighborhood of Tacoma, Washington, resident Bill Foulk, a US Army Ranger Staff Sergeant, was having a cookout with several of his friends (also Army Rangers) and their families. He and his party were attacked by local drug dealers in retaliation for Foulk's attempts to organize neighborhood watch and protection programs, which included videotaping of a nearby "crack house". In a gun battle lasting more than 10 minutes, over 300 rounds were reported to have been fired from semiautomatic pistols, rifles, and shotguns; without a single injury resulting on either side. Foulk's party was not prosecuted for their participation in the shooting, as city officials deemed it a clear case of self defense. Their commanding officer was less forgiving, however; and ordered them to spend several months of extended time on the firing range for failing to hit their targets.
These were a group of Army Rangers against a bunch of drug dealers, and they still didn't manage to hit anything! Of course there's extenuating circumstances like the engagement being in the dark, but it does underscore how difficult it is to hit someone in the heat of battle, even for trained professionals.
A lot of that is suppressing fire at targets that can't even be seen, AND a lot of those statistic including training bullets, so that does skew things as well.
Even with that taken into account, the ratio is still very high. Instead of thousands of bullets per kill, it goes down to hundreds. Snipers have the best ratio and it's still something like 3 or 4 shots per hit.
As pointed out, in actual combat most fire is suppressive fire, and isn't even being aimed at anyone in particular. So, 300 rounds without a single injury does not surprise me. If I was playing back field in paintball I could go through more than 300 rounds myself in a single 5 minute game. But that was firing to suppress, not to actually hit people. If someone's position got out flanked though? There was zero question that that person was getting hit and getting out.
It's their accuracy under ideal circumstances that gives me pause.
As pointed out, in actual combat most fire is suppressive fire, and isn't even being aimed at anyone in particular. So, 300 rounds without a single injury does not surprise me. If I was playing back field in paintball I could go through more than 300 rounds myself in a single 5 minute game. But that was firing for effect, not to actually hit people. If someone's position got out flanked though? There was zero question that that person was getting hit and getting out.
It's their accuracy under ideal circumstances that gives me pause.
Abstractions don't end in just "non-ideal" circumstances - said soldier could've been alert and dodged before the flanker could get his hasty shot off, or other elements prevented the shot from connecting. Hell, even under ideal circumstances misses can and still happen - I've heard enough first-hand stories of BS shots (aka "how the fuck did you miss") in real combat to know that sometimes things under "ideal circumstances" can still go wrong.
Also, the psychology involved in paintball and the psychology involved in real combat are quite different, and will thus affect a soldier's chance to hit differently. There are soldiers and policemen who do incredibly well in combat training and shooting ranges, but then deteriorate once they enter an actual firefight. The world's not as clear cut as "they missed, therefore they must be badly trained".
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chiasaur11Never doubt a raccoon.Do you think it's trademarked?Registered Userregular
So, just got UFO Defense. Having gotten my transfers from the Empire's ground forces, seen them slaughtered, and then reverted, what are some basic things I should do to give me a fighting chance?
The correct first time way to play is to struggle through having no idea what is going on. That's how we learned, and how you should.
Sorry, watched the pigeon's videos already. Quite handy, now I realize that "left hand' doesn't mean "strapped across their chest." That would explain the whole thing where three rounds worth of squad fire can't hit a single sectoid.
Welcome to X-com. Where your scientists are amazing, and your soldiers have never held a gun before!
Got cast iron balls, though. A rookie, the biggest blubbering coward you've got, can see the commander of the XCOM project, Earth's most decorated soldier, get torn to ribbons with an egg incubating in his corpse reanimating it as a terrifying shuffling abomination, and his response is "Okay. Short, controlled bursts."
It probably just feels that way because one of the design choices they went with, which is how sniper rifles, assault rifles, and machine guns basically operate all the same way in the game. They all basically take one shot, regardless of their animation, and all the bullets either hit or miss on one damage roll. Which is kind of an odd way to do it. I do wish they had differentiated the weapons more, machine guns have lower accuracy but roll a bunch of lower damage shots, sniper rifles are one roll, an all or nothing high damage hit or miss, assault rifles are a middle ground.
It would be less board game-y but I think I'd like it more.
Reinstalled this game in prep for the new release. I think I might replay it so I can experience the DLC missions at the very least. Never did that before.
Any mods out there I should look at? I saw mention of Long War.
There's also "Merciless", which is a difficulty mod that makes things a lot easier, if you're just in the game for a cinematic experience.
Also I noticed conversation had gone to ye olde x-com (back when it was hyphenated). Did anyone else play it on Superhuman difficulty and locate their first base in the Arctic?
Also I noticed conversation had gone to ye olde x-com (back when it was hyphenated). Did anyone else play it on Superhuman difficulty and locate their first base in the Arctic?
Good times.
Glitch in the original DOS version meant superhuman was identical to beginner after the first mission.
Which made TFTD an unpleasant surprise for a lot of people.
Standing still and firing around the corner into a flanking shot would be easy. Running past a corner and shooting something accurately with a huge ass rifle is not. And aside all the difficulties and psychology reasons why trained professionals miss a lot, the main reason is probably because most of the time they don't see what they're shooting at. Turns out when you have 360 bullets per dude in your squad you don't have to wait until paintball range to start taking shots, you can fire where you think they are, where they might go, fire on percieved movement etc. But if you were in a paintball situation the fight would be utterly bloody and over very fast. This is why police officers focus on overwhelming strength, speed and surprise. Shoot outs at close range can be super deadly, now imagine that with plasma weaponry that probably doesn't give a shit about walls!
And if any of this were real you would either need very very few bullets if you used CQB tactics as you creep up really close (this is comparable to the game, in many in game situations you fire 3 bullets per enemy), or you would use a million bullets per alien killed using military tactics of suppression. Pretty much 99,x% of all the bullets the army fires is not meant to hit someone. In a forest mission you would put 2+ heavies in a defensible position (of course not by themselves) 400-500m out and positively shower the UFO with bullets for the entirety of the mission. Engaging an unknown enemy like this you would probably bring trucks or an extra dropship for ammo. Also you'd make sure you outnumber the aliens 10 to 1 if possible. Considering how strong the structural integrity of the craft seems to be you could probably suppress the entire area with mortar barrages to keep everyone inside long before you even get close and still get to nab those juicy nav computers.
Alas this is a game. Also pet peeve for me with TB and others talking about it, bullets go through cover in real life. Actually the main argument is that the game is grid based and the graphics are just an abstraction, but still. It's not even slightly 'bullshit' when an enemy seem to clip 2 walls and hit you TB, it's a fucking plasma gun.
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Any mods out there I should look at? I saw mention of Long War.
I haven't tried any mods besides the Long War, but I like it.
There's also "Merciless", which is a difficulty mod that makes things a lot easier, if you're just in the game for a cinematic experience.
Basically the same as the new XCOM - hold back with snipers, spot for them with other squad members, and unload on the aliens from far away to try to keep from getting killed. If you're interested I have a three part tutorial for the game and part 2 is gameplay basics.
The correct first time way to play is to struggle through having no idea what is going on. That's how we learned, and how you should.
Out of gas, lose the Earf.
XCOM!
I didn't have enough radar coverage.
I already said I didn't win!
So, playing on beginner, two successful missions in, lasers are in production, and en-route to my first terror mission. This is where thing typically go to hell, right?
Last mission was kinda funny. After losing everyone except two guys the previous mission, I shot down a small ship, flew my skyranger over, killed one grey, and won the mission. It was kinda funny, I definitely was expecting more of a fight.
These guys are crap. Maybe we got the janitorial staff of a shut down army base somewhere or something.
I mean, obviously its a video game so its an abstraction, but really, their starting accuracy is just abysmal.
And you're gonna see A LOT of 20% chance to hits.
Basically, turn based games are very hard to think of as "actual" combat, but presumably if you put it all together it would make sense. A game like Frozen Synapse also portrays people with bad accuracy, but they fire so fast that it seems perfectly normal. If you compressed an entire X-COM mission into the time it would "actually" last in real life, all those missed shots barely even register: your people end up being more accurate than a lot of real life soldiers, I think.
In real wars suppressing fire is also a thing.
It's because traditionally, some Russian men's names end in i while some Russian women's names end in a. So Vladimir Portalski's daughter would be Svetlana Portalska.
I understand that it's turn based and its an abstraction. And when a unit runs out into the open on one turn, and runs into cover on the next, its not like they were actually standing out in the open not moving, etc. But when one of my guys like, fully flanks someone who has been stationary behind cover? And my guy still only had a 65% chance to hit? Well, that is not a trained soldier. That's a guy who is still figuring out what end of his gun points at the bad guys. Which is why the XCOM being an elite organization of crack volunteers (which is how some people like to think of their dudes) doesn't gel with me.
As TychoCelchuuu pretty much explains though, if you try to imagine how a typical XCOM battle would be like if you converted it to real time, then you see that your soldiers are in fact somewhat more accurate than the average soldier.
For an example of how hilarious accuracy can be IRL, take this example:
These were a group of Army Rangers against a bunch of drug dealers, and they still didn't manage to hit anything! Of course there's extenuating circumstances like the engagement being in the dark, but it does underscore how difficult it is to hit someone in the heat of battle, even for trained professionals.
Even with that taken into account, the ratio is still very high. Instead of thousands of bullets per kill, it goes down to hundreds. Snipers have the best ratio and it's still something like 3 or 4 shots per hit.
It's their accuracy under ideal circumstances that gives me pause.
Abstractions don't end in just "non-ideal" circumstances - said soldier could've been alert and dodged before the flanker could get his hasty shot off, or other elements prevented the shot from connecting. Hell, even under ideal circumstances misses can and still happen - I've heard enough first-hand stories of BS shots (aka "how the fuck did you miss") in real combat to know that sometimes things under "ideal circumstances" can still go wrong.
Also, the psychology involved in paintball and the psychology involved in real combat are quite different, and will thus affect a soldier's chance to hit differently. There are soldiers and policemen who do incredibly well in combat training and shooting ranges, but then deteriorate once they enter an actual firefight. The world's not as clear cut as "they missed, therefore they must be badly trained".
Got cast iron balls, though. A rookie, the biggest blubbering coward you've got, can see the commander of the XCOM project, Earth's most decorated soldier, get torn to ribbons with an egg incubating in his corpse reanimating it as a terrifying shuffling abomination, and his response is "Okay. Short, controlled bursts."
Takes a lot to freak out an X-COM field agent.
Why I fear the ocean.
It would be less board game-y but I think I'd like it more.
I sense...shenanigans.
Also I noticed conversation had gone to ye olde x-com (back when it was hyphenated). Did anyone else play it on Superhuman difficulty and locate their first base in the Arctic?
Good times.
Steam profile - Twitch - YouTube
Switch: SM-6352-8553-6516
Glitch in the original DOS version meant superhuman was identical to beginner after the first mission.
Which made TFTD an unpleasant surprise for a lot of people.
Why I fear the ocean.
And if any of this were real you would either need very very few bullets if you used CQB tactics as you creep up really close (this is comparable to the game, in many in game situations you fire 3 bullets per enemy), or you would use a million bullets per alien killed using military tactics of suppression. Pretty much 99,x% of all the bullets the army fires is not meant to hit someone. In a forest mission you would put 2+ heavies in a defensible position (of course not by themselves) 400-500m out and positively shower the UFO with bullets for the entirety of the mission. Engaging an unknown enemy like this you would probably bring trucks or an extra dropship for ammo. Also you'd make sure you outnumber the aliens 10 to 1 if possible. Considering how strong the structural integrity of the craft seems to be you could probably suppress the entire area with mortar barrages to keep everyone inside long before you even get close and still get to nab those juicy nav computers.
Alas this is a game. Also pet peeve for me with TB and others talking about it, bullets go through cover in real life. Actually the main argument is that the game is grid based and the graphics are just an abstraction, but still. It's not even slightly 'bullshit' when an enemy seem to clip 2 walls and hit you TB, it's a fucking plasma gun.
openxcom.org/