Still trying a "new" Thok strat for us, and I'm worried we don't have the DPS for the strat just yet (see gearing above). 1-tank, 2-heal; not trying to extend the jailer phases (or w/e you call the phase where he stands in one place and screams). Also, our DPS has always been a bit on the light side with this group.
And don't even get me started on Cleanses.
It's a Magic effect so I don't know who can do that other than RDruid. I know I can cleanse my own, but it's on a 1min cooldown.
Purify (8s)
Mass Dispel (15s but you don't use it on cooldown)
Symbiosis: Mass Dispel (If I have to take this when considering this entire list, something is wrong, since it's nowhere near as good as baseline)
2x Hand of Sacrifice (with multiple charges, 2 min)
Nature's Cure (8s)
Shamanistic Rage (1 min)
Unbound Will (1 min, self cleanse for warlock)
AegisFear My DanceOvershot Toronto, Landed in OttawaRegistered Userregular
The issue is not "the healers are too stressed to cleanse", the issue is "most of the healers are cleansing, except for one who doesn't seem to be able to and picks other, much worse healing options than cleansing during a period in which 80% of the damage is coming from the debuff".
Mm. We ended up with our Thok kill from 1 tank 3 heals, made that debuff phase a lot cleaner. Not sure about the DPS but we generally push him to the final kite (the one you can't end) around 12% to avoid the crazy fire and stacking issues in p4.
I feel like a mage's remove curse should be in there somewhere, but just because I want my mage to be more useful in a group setting. It's prolly not pertinent to your argument. Seriously tho, since DK's have Raise Ally and its supposed to have a risen dead kind of focus (since healing magic is not their thing) why can't my mage main get a "Create Simulacrum" spell b-rez? C'mon Bliz! throw a mage a bone!
“There are no happy endings, because nothing ends.” ... also, "Ah, turn blue!"
XBOne | LyrKing
I always thought that Mages should be able to get a buff from using remove curse that gave them a net dps increase. It would promote good team play and provide a way for skilled mages to eke out a bit more dps.
Checked my guild activity list last night. Of the 250+ members we have, a good 75% have been offline for anywhere from a month to two years. About 20 of us log in weekly.
It's going to be a loooong six plus month wait for those who are sticking around for it.
I think they might do something within the next few months to make for the lack of content
But back in the Blizzcon in 2009 where they raved about how far and good they got with making in game movies with the game stuff they really missed out on doing some neat things for people
Like Garrosh killing Cairne and Garrosh's trial
It would be awesome if Varimathras is the one that takes Garrosh on his time trip and sets it up so the Orcs don't have to fall to Demonic magic instead of whomever it is
I always thought that Mages should be able to get a buff from using remove curse that gave them a net dps increase. It would promote good team play and provide a way for skilled mages to eke out a bit more dps.
There's a glyph for that.
But part of the problem is the curse debuff doesn't appear very much in raids. I don't think it's in SoO at all and only had one appearance in ToT.
I always thought that Mages should be able to get a buff from using remove curse that gave them a net dps increase. It would promote good team play and provide a way for skilled mages to eke out a bit more dps.
There was a glyph that did this in Cataclysm but curses are so rare there's just no point no more.
The glyph is also a net 0 gain in DPS. Mages don't lose any dps from cleansing curses if they have the glyph, but they don't gain any either. Also it takes one of their major glyph slots which may be better spent on other abilities.
They were extra bad for me last night. Also, I always hear people talk about doing it on Tuesday to get better groups. That seemed to be the opposite case last night.
Edit: And of course the ridiculously strict votekick restrictions were keeping fail players around way too long last night.
The glyph is also a net 0 gain in DPS. Mages don't lose any dps from cleansing curses if they have the glyph, but they don't gain any either. Also it takes one of their major glyph slots which may be better spent on other abilities.
Right, I was just pointing out that technically there's one out there, I didn't say it was any good :P
To be honest, mages need better unique utility rather than more ways to get to Jaw Dropping Damage (tm). Nobody really needs conjured food in dungeons anymore, Time Warp is Bloodlust/Heroism, There aren't any curses to remove, and AI is covered by other buffs now.
Compare that to warlocks who have gates (raid movement) and healthstones (extra raid healing). Even if warlocks were under mages consistently in damage, RLs would find a reason to try to stick them in.
For dark shamans we dont even have the melees inside/on the hill. We just send 2 tanks and 2-3 healers (on 25hc). Its a very safe strategy.
Thok is all about healing. As shadow I feel pretty useless dps wise with all the interrupts but I bring so much other amazing stuff.
Mass dispels at pretty much no cost. Divine star does insane numbers when everyone is stacked and feathers/shield speed to help people kite faster.
So basically theres no problem on that boss that a shadow priest cant help fix
The glyph is also a net 0 gain in DPS. Mages don't lose any dps from cleansing curses if they have the glyph, but they don't gain any either. Also it takes one of their major glyph slots which may be better spent on other abilities.
Right, I was just pointing out that technically there's one out there, I didn't say it was any good :P
To be honest, mages need better unique utility rather than more ways to get to Jaw Dropping Damage (tm). Nobody really needs conjured food in dungeons anymore, Time Warp is Bloodlust/Heroism, There aren't any curses to remove, and AI is covered by other buffs now.
Compare that to warlocks who have gates (raid movement) and healthstones (extra raid healing). Even if warlocks were under mages consistently in damage, RLs would find a reason to try to stick them in.
Bring back rolling ignite crits. That'd give a reason to bring multiple mages.
Just change all Mages into Warlocks. Bam, now you have a reason to bring a Mage.
Naw, but. Mages, Windwalkers, and Hunters sorta all could use some raid utility love. Hunters do bring every single buff/debuff in the game, plus a battle rez and bloodlust, but is that enough? Windwalkers have like nothing, and Mages, well. I'm hoping they look into that for 6.0. The whole "utility arms race" argument really doesn't work anymore when literally every other class and spec brings something to the table.
Hunters also bring misdirect, the capability to move and cast, good survivability and a lot of other small things. A well played hunter can do a lot of things utilitywise that is impossible or hard for other classes. From a design perspective, pretty much every class should bring something unique that helps, but can be worked around in non Mythic difficulties. For Mythic, they can design the fights assuming at least one of each class is present.
Misdirect/tricks lost a lot of their usefulness once they decided to make threat all but not matter
It's still great for getting newly spawned adds onto the tank, though. Especially with like, the Bats on Heroic Thok. It's not easy to pick those up since it's a 1 tank fight.
Hunters also bring misdirect, the capability to move and cast, good survivability and a lot of other small things. A well played hunter can do a lot of things utilitywise that is impossible or hard for other classes. From a design perspective, pretty much every class should bring something unique that helps, but can be worked around in non Mythic difficulties. For Mythic, they can design the fights assuming at least one of each class is present.
Hunters are the cornerstone of our heroic blackfuse with their disengage and deterrance.
So Nazgrim wearing a Santa hat in SoO makes me even more bummed that you can't transmog one onto your character. Not even for winter veil!
I got the hat from Nazgrim on my Pandaren female. It looks /so/ bad, i can't even believe it. Just hide the ears with it or have them poke out blizzard, it's ok. yikes.
Welp, finished out my last official raid and posted on my guild forums. The officers already knew I was stepping down.
Of course, RNG decided that Thok should drop the warforged polearm, and Siegecrafter drop his warforged mace, which I felt obligated to pass on for people who would be continuing to raid.
So Nazgrim wearing a Santa hat in SoO makes me even more bummed that you can't transmog one onto your character. Not even for winter veil!
I don't understand why they won't let you xmog it, even for just Winter Veil. IIRC, the hats don't even have an armor type anymore (or is that part of the problem?).
After several long months and endless raids spent on the attendance boss, we finally got Garrosh on Heroic, because we are awesomeNormal, because we are slow. >.>
My wife got an heirloom, a bonus loot universal token, and first crack at the second universal token that dropped. She was upset because she has 5/5 tier already.
I kinda feel like we overgeared and underskilled the encounter - the first time we got him to p3 we still had a minute of Sated left. So much for "lust in p1 and p3". :P But kept wiping on the damn MC's. Oh well. Incoming fun on H-Immerseus... probably in January when we can actually get a full group again.
Update: Got Thok after a couple of tries. The raid is still getting used to 1-tank, 2-heal; but it's working out. On the kill, we got to the final phase with Thok at ~14%. The extra DPSer really shines on that fight. More than I expected.
Siege took 3-4 attempts as well, but this was expected (first week we had our F-DK go Blood and our BMonk go WW). After the "new" tank learned the fight, we were golden.
Klaxxi was surprisingly straightforward, which I attribute to DKs having 847 mitigation cooldowns. We got our first one-shot, despite me getting stunned by zoomy dude twice (because I'm a dumb) and dying twice.
Regarding Enhancement: I have 4pT16 and have all SoO gear. Despite that fact, my sims show Haste as barely edging out Mastery even though all the "BiS" lists and theorycrafting points to Mastery. I'm using the 2*fists from Protectors and I have Warforged AoC. Second trinket is either Heroic Renataki's (surprisingly good for this tier) or Haromm's Talisman.
I'm wondering if the trinket from Siegecrafter will push me over into Mastery > Haste. I'm guessing Haste is winning out because of the 4p that gives a proc based on Flame Shock ticks; but I'm not near a Haste plateau, that I know of.
I also want to mess around with weapons some more. I've got one each of the Klaxxi 1H and Juggernaut 1H.
I had another pitiful LFR last night (Underhold). On the way to Malkorok, there was a huntard repeatedly pulling extra trash. We had a 75% wipe on trash in the first room that was just barely finished up by DPS and healers. Nonetheless the group one shot Malkorok, but it was hairy because there were really only about 4 people healing (I hit #1 with 220k HPS, whoo!). Then on the trash to Spoils, the dumb DPS (what else) were not being good about killing the goblins, so we got a shredder on the first pack that led to some deaths.
Then while the raid was recovering from that pull, some dumbasses (including dumbshit hunter) rushed ahead and engaged the next pack. Naturally we ended up getting swarmed by shredders there and had one of those patented LFR Rolling Wipes™ as people run away and the trash keeps re-engaging the people running back in. I'm sure you guys all know the kind. Except this one just kept going. I made sure not to release after my initial death so I could keep an eye on when the trash finally reset. I ended up alt tabbed for over 10 minutes before the trash finally reset. By this point, quite a few people had bailed out of the raid. When I rezed and ran back to the tunnel before the big trash room, there were about 10 people left in the raid. The game had passed raid leader to me (a healer) by this point. We waited and waited as no one else was put in the raid. There were people asking if the raid was going to get more people. The few stragglers started leaving one by one.
I didn't time how long all this took, but eventually it was down to just me and a ret paladin. Then a couple minutes later, BOOM, the raid is flooded with new people and we're back up to a full raid. There were some comments about all the skeletons lying around. I'm sure everyone who zoned in assumed they were a single person joining an open spot in a fail raid, but this was about as close as you could get to a full raid reset as possible. (Presumably) only 2 of the original members of the raid were present anymore. There was a little more drama and stupidity, but nothing beyond the norm for LFR. Each of the last two bosses were one shots, so, once again, the trash in LFR inexplicably proved to be more challenging than the bosses.
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AegisFear My DanceOvershot Toronto, Landed in OttawaRegistered Userregular
Coined the staff from Blackfuse for the 5th straight time now.
@forty: That's one of the reasons why I refuse to queue as a DPS anymore. As either Heals or Tank, I feel like I have a higher chance of salvaging those horrible moments. Then again, I'm just arrogant enough to think I can salvage a failing raid.
I'm also really enjoying tanking LFR on my DK, so there may just be something wrong with me in general.
@forty: That's one of the reasons why I refuse to queue as a DPS anymore. As either Heals or Tank, I feel like I have a higher chance of salvaging those horrible moments. Then again, I'm just arrogant enough to think I can salvage a failing raid.
I'm also really enjoying tanking LFR on my DK, so there may just be something wrong with me in general.
I only queue as heals now and only when the incentive bag is an option.
Unfortunately, I need 3 more [Spirits]; then I have to grind rep and VP on my DK. Then Runestones because I hate myself.
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
Man, I'm trying to get back into the groove of the UI and everything. Decided I may as well roll up a panda monk to try that out while I get readjusted. It feels like relearning a language or something.
Unfortunately, I need 3 more [Spirits]; then I have to grind rep and VP on my DK. Then Runestones because I hate myself.
I still have to do change of command and with a rather dead server this seems impossible
I really do hope their plan to have flying back in warlords does not have so many roadblocks or other BS
They nerfed Change of Command a lot, so a tank can solo it and a dps plus healer shouldn't have any issues
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AegisFear My DanceOvershot Toronto, Landed in OttawaRegistered Userregular
THANK YOU CHRISTMAS JESUS:
Ka'roz the Locust's Hurl Amber ability will now form a pool of Caustic Amber at the target's feet 3 seconds after targeting them. The timing was less predictable previously and varied based on the targeted player's distance from Ka'roz.
Posts
Purify (8s)
Mass Dispel (15s but you don't use it on cooldown)
Symbiosis: Mass Dispel (If I have to take this when considering this entire list, something is wrong, since it's nowhere near as good as baseline)
2x Hand of Sacrifice (with multiple charges, 2 min)
Nature's Cure (8s)
Shamanistic Rage (1 min)
Unbound Will (1 min, self cleanse for warlock)
Currently DMing: None
Characters
[5e] Dural Melairkyn - AC 18 | HP 40 | Melee +5/1d8+3 | Spell +4/DC 12
Currently DMing: None
Characters
[5e] Dural Melairkyn - AC 18 | HP 40 | Melee +5/1d8+3 | Spell +4/DC 12
XBOne | LyrKing
There's a glyph for that.
But part of the problem is the curse debuff doesn't appear very much in raids. I don't think it's in SoO at all and only had one appearance in ToT.
There was a glyph that did this in Cataclysm but curses are so rare there's just no point no more.
Edit: And of course the ridiculously strict votekick restrictions were keeping fail players around way too long last night.
Right, I was just pointing out that technically there's one out there, I didn't say it was any good :P
To be honest, mages need better unique utility rather than more ways to get to Jaw Dropping Damage (tm). Nobody really needs conjured food in dungeons anymore, Time Warp is Bloodlust/Heroism, There aren't any curses to remove, and AI is covered by other buffs now.
Compare that to warlocks who have gates (raid movement) and healthstones (extra raid healing). Even if warlocks were under mages consistently in damage, RLs would find a reason to try to stick them in.
Thok is all about healing. As shadow I feel pretty useless dps wise with all the interrupts but I bring so much other amazing stuff.
Mass dispels at pretty much no cost. Divine star does insane numbers when everyone is stacked and feathers/shield speed to help people kite faster.
So basically theres no problem on that boss that a shadow priest cant help fix
Bring back rolling ignite crits. That'd give a reason to bring multiple mages.
Naw, but. Mages, Windwalkers, and Hunters sorta all could use some raid utility love. Hunters do bring every single buff/debuff in the game, plus a battle rez and bloodlust, but is that enough? Windwalkers have like nothing, and Mages, well. I'm hoping they look into that for 6.0. The whole "utility arms race" argument really doesn't work anymore when literally every other class and spec brings something to the table.
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
It's still great for getting newly spawned adds onto the tank, though. Especially with like, the Bats on Heroic Thok. It's not easy to pick those up since it's a 1 tank fight.
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
The days when a @Dibby was still a Dibby, and untamed beasts roamed the wilds.
I got the hat from Nazgrim on my Pandaren female. It looks /so/ bad, i can't even believe it. Just hide the ears with it or have them poke out blizzard, it's ok. yikes.
Of course, RNG decided that Thok should drop the warforged polearm, and Siegecrafter drop his warforged mace, which I felt obligated to pass on for people who would be continuing to raid.
I don't understand why they won't let you xmog it, even for just Winter Veil. IIRC, the hats don't even have an armor type anymore (or is that part of the problem?).
My wife got an heirloom, a bonus loot universal token, and first crack at the second universal token that dropped. She was upset because she has 5/5 tier already.
I kinda feel like we overgeared and underskilled the encounter - the first time we got him to p3 we still had a minute of Sated left. So much for "lust in p1 and p3". :P But kept wiping on the damn MC's. Oh well. Incoming fun on H-Immerseus... probably in January when we can actually get a full group again.
Siege took 3-4 attempts as well, but this was expected (first week we had our F-DK go Blood and our BMonk go WW). After the "new" tank learned the fight, we were golden.
Klaxxi was surprisingly straightforward, which I attribute to DKs having 847 mitigation cooldowns. We got our first one-shot, despite me getting stunned by zoomy dude twice (because I'm a dumb) and dying twice.
Regarding Enhancement: I have 4pT16 and have all SoO gear. Despite that fact, my sims show Haste as barely edging out Mastery even though all the "BiS" lists and theorycrafting points to Mastery. I'm using the 2*fists from Protectors and I have Warforged AoC. Second trinket is either Heroic Renataki's (surprisingly good for this tier) or Haromm's Talisman.
I'm wondering if the trinket from Siegecrafter will push me over into Mastery > Haste. I'm guessing Haste is winning out because of the 4p that gives a proc based on Flame Shock ticks; but I'm not near a Haste plateau, that I know of.
I also want to mess around with weapons some more. I've got one each of the Klaxxi 1H and Juggernaut 1H.
Then while the raid was recovering from that pull, some dumbasses (including dumbshit hunter) rushed ahead and engaged the next pack. Naturally we ended up getting swarmed by shredders there and had one of those patented LFR Rolling Wipes™ as people run away and the trash keeps re-engaging the people running back in. I'm sure you guys all know the kind. Except this one just kept going. I made sure not to release after my initial death so I could keep an eye on when the trash finally reset. I ended up alt tabbed for over 10 minutes before the trash finally reset. By this point, quite a few people had bailed out of the raid. When I rezed and ran back to the tunnel before the big trash room, there were about 10 people left in the raid. The game had passed raid leader to me (a healer) by this point. We waited and waited as no one else was put in the raid. There were people asking if the raid was going to get more people. The few stragglers started leaving one by one.
I didn't time how long all this took, but eventually it was down to just me and a ret paladin. Then a couple minutes later, BOOM, the raid is flooded with new people and we're back up to a full raid. There were some comments about all the skeletons lying around. I'm sure everyone who zoned in assumed they were a single person joining an open spot in a fail raid, but this was about as close as you could get to a full raid reset as possible. (Presumably) only 2 of the original members of the raid were present anymore. There was a little more drama and stupidity, but nothing beyond the norm for LFR. Each of the last two bosses were one shots, so, once again, the trash in LFR inexplicably proved to be more challenging than the bosses.
Goddamnit.
Currently DMing: None
Characters
[5e] Dural Melairkyn - AC 18 | HP 40 | Melee +5/1d8+3 | Spell +4/DC 12
I'm also really enjoying tanking LFR on my DK, so there may just be something wrong with me in general.
Holy fuck I've gotten that staff 5 times now as well. I swear that staff has a higher droprate than anything else in the entire raid.
I only queue as heals now and only when the incentive bag is an option.
The blind loot roll thing is really disappointing and sadistic
I still have to do change of command and with a rather dead server this seems impossible
I really do hope their plan to have flying back in warlords does not have so many roadblocks or other BS
Currently DMing: None
Characters
[5e] Dural Melairkyn - AC 18 | HP 40 | Melee +5/1d8+3 | Spell +4/DC 12