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[Dungeon of the Endless] The best game you didn't know you needed.

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    Vrtra TheoryVrtra Theory Registered User regular
    I agree that even with perfect early floors, it's possible to get a later floor you just can't beat.

    A fast, damage-heavy hero with Aftershave (I love Golgy for this, but Sara would work with an excellent weapon) can be designated as rhino patrol and somewhat solve that problem -- assuming you can spare them from defending rooms. If you don't have the item, though, I don't have many good ideas on how to stop rhinos.

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    The Dude With HerpesThe Dude With Herpes Lehi, UTRegistered User regular
    edited April 2015
    I've got to disagree pretty strongly with the contrasts being made with FTL and no-win's.

    DotE very rarely gives you actual no-win scenarios; outside of Drill Ship runs anyway. In my almost 70 hours of playing, I actually can't think of a single time I was presented with a situation where I had neither any way to succeed because of the rules of the game and I also hadn't been a bit too flippant with resource gathering/spending. It usually boils down to the latter in Easy games. Hard as balls, yes, bad prep meaning I am bound to fail, sure; but not because it is inherently impossible, but because I planned/prepared poorly. And while the ability to plan and prepare properly comes from practice and experience, the situation that lead to that failure wasn't because the game presented you with an impossible situation, but simply because you were yet to know how to tackle it.

    On the surface that seems comparable to the mothership in FTL, but I'd argue they're pretty vastly different. In FTL the mothership comes out of nowhere, if you haven't encountered it before. And honestly you can play the game a few dozen times before you even make it far enough to encounter it to begin with (I know this from experience). So you have all of this gameplay that, while on some level you might realize is preparing you for something, but is never explicitly told to you; that isn't really teaching you how to handle this ultimate encounter. Once you have experienced it, however, you suddenly realize you have to play the prior 99% of the game completely different to tackle this problem. To me that's FTL's biggest failing, is that it can potentially spend a lot of time training you to play the game wrong. Granted, it helps that even despite that the game is wonderful, but yeah, it's an issue it has. It's the roguelike analogue to FFIX's last boss. :lol: Nothing prior to the mothership really prepares you for the mothership, aside from the super basic knowledge of how to actually play the game.

    Back to DotE, in comparison, there's nothing like this. There's no 'last boss' that is sprung on you, and from the moment you start a playthrough, to the moment you hit the final exit, everything that is presented to you is done in a methodical manner, and very few things should be surprises. There's no point with which you're given a curve ball that renders what you've done and learned previous to it is negated due to all the rules being changed. Boss enemies are given to you in very small doses before they are an actual major concern; assuming you're playing on Too Easy you won't even see more than one boss type on a single floor outside of a Drill Ship. Rushing the exit is always an option, and in some cases is far and away the best option. Once you discover the exit to a floor (unless this change was reverted and I totally missed the patch note in a previous patch) subsequent enemy waves are substantially larger and more difficult; making fully exploring a floor a risky proposition, and something you need to weigh against cutting your losses and trying to have better luck on the next floor. On floors where you are dust starved, even not exit rushing, there's ways of manipulating enemy wave spawns and their locations, to make it still possible...and generally dust starving floors don't come till the back half of a run, and in theory you should have a decent reserve of resources allowing you to build a Generator or two, in order to give yourself some dust breathing room. But all of this is within the pretty visible rules that are established as you play. FTL has a 'right' way to play, regardless of your luck, once you learn what the ultimate goal is; DotE has tons of viable options within it's rule structure that gives you the flexibility to not have what you learn negated, and more wiggle room for recovery.

    Absolutely, most of this is learned via trial and error, and in the process you will lose a lot, and likely be faced with situations where you're going to fail, no question. But my point is that those failures aren't due to the game fucking you, it's due to the learning process of the game. I'm just arguing that DotE is substantially more 'fair' than FTL.

    Except, you know, EMP's; because fuck EMP's, and fuck whoever decided they were a good idea. :lol:

    EDIT: to be clear, there were plenty of times in DotE where it was actually impossible for me to accomplish a specific extraneous task, like pursuing an achievement; but from the perspective of the basic goals of the game, yeah, not impossible.

    The Dude With Herpes on
    Steam: Galedrid - XBL: Galedrid - PSN: Galedrid
    Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
    Blizzard: Galedrid#1367 - FFXIV: Galedrid Kingshand

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    TeeManTeeMan BrainSpoon Registered User regular
    Have I mentioned here how much I love Pepper Spray VI? Because I love Pepper Spray VI - where have you been all my life! If you're having a lot of trouble dealing with big hitting enemies like those Hunas with the big axes or the large crystal dudes, sprinkle a few of these on the way to your kill room and one past it (in case those walker necrophages that go straight for your crystal make it through) to make tough enemies an absolute cinch to deal with. It's more ideal but not necessary that you try to keep the affected mobs out of your killroom, so your Heroes don't murder them before their time is up.

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    Vrtra TheoryVrtra Theory Registered User regular
    edited April 2015
    My first Easy win.
    u66euv4zcu8h.png

    This was a game I started with Max and Rakya. I added Skroig and then Mormish, replacing Rakya with Chef around Floor 7 and replacing Skroig with Golgy around Floor 8. I got lucky in that this was essentially my ideal team composition.

    - Max: door opener and crystal runner (fitted primarily for speed)
    - Mormish: primary operator, sits in one place all floor (on dust merchant if lucky, on food if not)
    - Chef: usually just blocks a dark room, operates (with Scope) when he can
    - Golgy: Aftershave!

    I know there are lots of different ways to play this game, but I think my biggest gains came when I started thinking of this game more as a tower defense game and less like a roguelike. By that I mean, hyper-focused on Industry generation and weapon research, and choosing heroes for their special abilities and not their stats. (You'll notice a total lack of heavily offensive or defensive heroes -- no Elise, no Ken, no Gork, etc.).

    This was my 38th attempt :).

    EDIT: I just want to put in another plug for Golgy... If you can get that Aftershave, she is just an amazing all-arounder. On the last few floors, I would have Golgy sit IN my Seblaster 4-Neurostun 4 room, as she would soak up only minimal damage from the Seblasters and can finish monsters off (w/Pickpocket) as the Seblasters weaken them. Then if a Keeper (big fat growing dude) or a dark room rhino appears, she can just run over and kill them at the beginning of the wave before returning to the Seblaster room.

    Vrtra Theory on
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    Albino BunnyAlbino Bunny Jackie Registered User regular
    @EvmaAlsar and I tried out the multiplayer changes now you can do stuff like transfer heroes and items and junk.

    832E3ECA6C06F39B925BBEBC718E4635ED31052E

    Done with a dumb squad of slow, heavy hitting assholes. Team dakka is the best.

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    Vrtra TheoryVrtra Theory Registered User regular
    Ever since the last update, when I'm in-game there's a little icon on the right edge of the screen... It says "RT", with a little mailbox or doorway next to it. Anyone know what this icon is or how to interact with it?

    Screenshot in case it's just me:
    8q8sb6vb6nvs.png

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    BroncbusterBroncbuster Registered User regular
    My guess is controller support? Can you use controllers?

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    Origin: Broncbuster
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    Vrtra TheoryVrtra Theory Registered User regular
    I guess you must be right. It'd be nice if you could disable controller support completely, but it doesn't look like there's a setting in Options anywhere.

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    Vrtra TheoryVrtra Theory Registered User regular
    Whew.

    Easy Mode, Drill Pod, Floors 1-24, Complete. First try. Feeling pretty pleased.
    2jy5ybgk2h0j.png
    f4sw7xka0ete.png

    Are you a Software Engineer living in Seattle? HBO is hiring, message me.
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    The Dude With HerpesThe Dude With Herpes Lehi, UTRegistered User regular
    I totally read the chat of lower picture as "You have just unlocked Santa" and I got super excited for a moment. :P

    Steam: Galedrid - XBL: Galedrid - PSN: Galedrid
    Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
    Blizzard: Galedrid#1367 - FFXIV: Galedrid Kingshand

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    TeeManTeeMan BrainSpoon Registered User regular
    edited April 2015
    I totally read the chat of lower picture as "You have just unlocked Santa" and I got super excited for a moment. :P

    Only in an alternate universe where Steam still worked with indie devs during the Winter Sale to provide unique content and achievements *sigh*

    Speaking of unlikely heroes, I still haven't gotten around to playing with the Pug yet. I might get started on an all-random Armoury Pod run to see how the little bugger goes!

    TeeMan on
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    The Dude With HerpesThe Dude With Herpes Lehi, UTRegistered User regular
    I tried for an hour once restarting over and over with randoms and never got the pug.

    Super bummed. :(

    Steam: Galedrid - XBL: Galedrid - PSN: Galedrid
    Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
    Blizzard: Galedrid#1367 - FFXIV: Galedrid Kingshand

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    TeeManTeeMan BrainSpoon Registered User regular
    If I ever get him I'll be sure to OSB it and link the stream

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    Vrtra TheoryVrtra Theory Registered User regular
    I think Tactical HUD is rapidly becoming my favorite module. If you can manage to get Tactical HUD up to 3 or 4, the damage increase for your whole group is amazing. A single HUD alone can negate the loss of DPS from Aftershave, and if you have the space to build 2 or 3, you can have a seriously dangerous mobile assassin on your hands.

    If you only have space for 1 HUD, try to build it in a pocket room with multiple minor module slots, because additional wit continues to add +% damage (you can stack up 2-3 Mechanical Pal 3-4s on a HUD and keep watching the DPS rise).

    Speaking of mechanical pals... Several tricks that helped me a lot on a recent run:

    - If you're dust-starved and are lucky enough to find a merchant, you are typically going to immediately build a shop in a safe place and move your primary operator there. You won't get the +Dust until next turn, but if you build a single Mech Pal in the room, at least you can wring out ONE extra dust on THIS turn. (Amazing if you're sitting at 29 dust...)

    - The cutoffs for Dust are 1 Wit = 1 Dust, 11 Wit = 2 Dust, 21 Wit = 3 Dust, and so on. So having higher Mech Pal level can let you bump up your operator's wit to the next cutoff; e.g. with Mech Pal 3, if operator has 16 Wit, you need (21-16)/2 = 3 Mech Pals to get up to +3 Dust.

    - Sometimes you are spread so thin you can't even afford to leave an operator at shop... 5 Mech Pal 4s = 12.5 Wit, which is enough for the +2 Dust without an operator. Spread out over the course of a whole floor, that's easily another 30-40 dust. This has saved my bacon more than once when I was lucky enough to have a spare 5-module room.

    Are you a Software Engineer living in Seattle? HBO is hiring, message me.
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    TeeManTeeMan BrainSpoon Registered User regular
    ^ I love the bits where you start to take fancy with a module you hadn't really tried before and they start becoming the foundation of new strategies. 150 hours in and still tryin' new shit

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    DracomicronDracomicron Registered User regular
    Aaaaah.

    Sorry for the thread necro, but I just got this last week and have been playing a bit. I've gotten up to level 8 on Easy, and, my last game I was actually making some great progress, up to level 7 with a pretty good defensive module strategy - 2 Neurostunners, 1 Pepper Spray, and the rest Prisoner Prods (I KNOW, I didn't get any good damage module upgrades) in unoccupied rooms and replace a Neurostunner with a Bio-Recycler thinger in occupied rooms, and I had Max & Chef Nanor on operations, and Ken & Lady Joleri (the latter with Aftershave) opening doors.

    I had some success.

    But then, yesterday the game locked up in the map screen and I couldn't issue commands or get back to the main screen. I force ended the game and tried to reload, only to find that I couldn't Continue and that my game had apparently been deleted.

    I haven't been able to pick up the game again since.

    It's weird, in the off chance that I've had computer trouble when playing FTL or Invisible, Inc. they generally brought me back at the previous turn break. To have your save game erased because you force ended the game seems like either bad coding or a conscious decision to proactively prevent a really circuitous version of save scumming.

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    The Dude With HerpesThe Dude With Herpes Lehi, UTRegistered User regular
    edited July 2015
    It's not intentional.

    The game is typically pretty good at keeping saves. AFAIK solo it only 'saves' when you end a level or when you manually quit. Multiplayer should save pretty frequently to handle disconnects (since the major patch).

    Maybe the changes to multiplayer saving dicked up solo? I'm not sure, I haven't played since that patch unfortunately. But prior to full release I can't think of a time I lost a save with a crash.

    Don't let it get you down though. The game is meant to be tried and failed a lot. It sucks to lose your saves (I've been playing since alpha, every patch erased saves, good times), but once you get into the games groove, the first half a dozen levels are usually pretty trivial to blow through, and it becomes second nature.

    The Dude With Herpes on
    Steam: Galedrid - XBL: Galedrid - PSN: Galedrid
    Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
    Blizzard: Galedrid#1367 - FFXIV: Galedrid Kingshand

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    DracomicronDracomicron Registered User regular
    It's not intentional.

    The game is typically pretty good at keeping saves. AFAIK solo it only 'saves' when you end a level or when you manually quit. Multiplayer should save pretty frequently to handle disconnects (since the major patch).

    Maybe the changes to multiplayer saving dicked up solo? I'm not sure, I haven't played since that patch unfortunately. But prior to full release I can't think of a time I lost a save with a crash.

    Don't let it get you down though. The game is meant to be tried and failed a lot. It sucks to lose your saves (I've been playing since alpha, every patch erased saves, good times), but once you get into the games groove, the first half a dozen levels are usually pretty trivial to blow through, and it becomes second nature.

    Thanks, Dude. I actually finished the Escape Pod on Easy yesterday. Lost two characters on the last level, but I squeaked through with Josh & Rakya, barely. I hesitate to consider what higher difficulties look like, however.

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    38thDoe38thDoe lets never be stupid again wait lets always be stupid foreverRegistered User regular
    Easy is the hardest...
    Or did they add new difficulties/properly name things?

    38thDoE on steam
    🦀🦑🦀🦑🦀🦑🦀🦑🦀🦑🦀🦑🦀
    
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    DracomicronDracomicron Registered User regular
    I just figured that you had to unlock higher difficulties the same way you unlock pod modes.

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    The Dude With HerpesThe Dude With Herpes Lehi, UTRegistered User regular
    Nah, easy is the hardest difficulty choice. Once you get that down any additional difficulty comes from ship modifiers. They can force you to play against your personal style and comfort zone.

    This is often also true for even unlocking ships, as the requirements can be tough to meet.

    And if you want (probably) the greatest challenge, drill ship on easy and at least get the level 24 (I think?) Achievement. It turns the game into actually endless.

    Also if you want to unlock all the diary, it can take some experimentation to get some of those, using hero combos you aren't used to and such.

    Steam: Galedrid - XBL: Galedrid - PSN: Galedrid
    Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
    Blizzard: Galedrid#1367 - FFXIV: Galedrid Kingshand

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    Ed GrubermanEd Gruberman Registered User regular
    Has anyone ever gotten to use the dog character? I haven't played that many games since I found out about him but I always use 2 random characters and I've never seen him.

    steam_sig.png

    SteamID: edgruberman GOG Galaxy: EdGruberman
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    The Dude With HerpesThe Dude With Herpes Lehi, UTRegistered User regular
    edited July 2015
    Not I. I tried for an hour one day starting new games with random heroes and never saw him.

    Based on his stats on the wiki, he's not that good anyway, but I want to use him just to have used him.

    I haven't loaded the game up in a few months. I should actually check if there's been any major patches since that last multiplayer change one.

    EDIT: ah, the TF2 stuff. Neat.

    The Dude With Herpes on
    Steam: Galedrid - XBL: Galedrid - PSN: Galedrid
    Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
    Blizzard: Galedrid#1367 - FFXIV: Galedrid Kingshand

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    Ed GrubermanEd Gruberman Registered User regular
    Yeah I got the heavy in one of my games but he wasn't as durable as I thought and he died very suddenly.

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    SteamID: edgruberman GOG Galaxy: EdGruberman
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    ElvenshaeElvenshae Registered User regular
    Has anyone ever gotten to use the dog character? I haven't played that many games since I found out about him but I always use 2 random characters and I've never seen him.

    My first game.

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    TeeManTeeMan BrainSpoon Registered User regular
    I've only dabbled in this since the TF2 update, but I'll probably only get back into it if there's some expansion or new DLC annoucned at Gamescon later this year

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    The Dude With HerpesThe Dude With Herpes Lehi, UTRegistered User regular
    Apparently the iPad version of DoE was released a few days ago.

    You can find it here.

    $4.99 for the full game, no in-app purchases.

    If I had an i-device I'd buy it so hard. AFAIK there has been no news or even intention stated for an Android version but to be honest I'd be highly surprised if one didn't show up eventually.

    Also I have no idea if it's playable on an iPhone, or only the tablets. I could see it being really difficult to play on such a small device but I dunno? My Nexus 6 is pretty damn big, if it came out for Android I'd probably still give it a whirl if the Play store said it was compatible.

    Steam: Galedrid - XBL: Galedrid - PSN: Galedrid
    Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
    Blizzard: Galedrid#1367 - FFXIV: Galedrid Kingshand

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    HeirHeir Ausitn, TXRegistered User regular
    I forgot all about this game. Now it's on iPad?? and Final Fantasy VII too? I'm going to be taking so many poop breaks at work now...


    Anyways, is this game pretty rad? The description makes me feel like it is.

    camo_sig2.png
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    The Dude With HerpesThe Dude With Herpes Lehi, UTRegistered User regular
    This game is not pretty rad.

    It is the radest.

    Steam: Galedrid - XBL: Galedrid - PSN: Galedrid
    Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
    Blizzard: Galedrid#1367 - FFXIV: Galedrid Kingshand

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    SeidkonaSeidkona Had an upgrade Registered User regular
    I would love an android version. So so so much.

    Mostly just huntin' monsters.
    XBL:Phenyhelm - 3DS:Phenyhelm
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    programjunkieprogramjunkie Registered User regular
    I like this game, but it needs to be easier. Very Easy is not, in fact, very easy.

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    TeeManTeeMan BrainSpoon Registered User regular
    I like this game, but it needs to be easier. Very Easy is not, in fact, very easy.

    It's not like anything else out there, so don't be disheartened if it takes a little while to figure out. What bits are you struggling with? We've got a few experienced players in this thread

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    DracomicronDracomicron Registered User regular
    Has anyone ever gotten to use the dog character? I haven't played that many games since I found out about him but I always use 2 random characters and I've never seen him.

    I just started an Armory Pod game and I got the dog. Also got Mitzi, so I'm like, what do I do with all these weapons?

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    The Dude With HerpesThe Dude With Herpes Lehi, UTRegistered User regular
    Update!:
    [1.0.88] Death Gamble Update
    Community Announcements - Steph.(✿◠‿◠)


    Hi all,

    The Paris Games Week is taking a lot of our time at the moment (if you're in Paris, come say hi to us at the Jeux Made in France booth in Hall 2.1), but we've been working on some pretty cool things for you. :) Indeed, an exciting Dungeon of the Endless update is now available!

    dU2s4tB.jpg

    DEATH GAMBLE UPDATE

    This Death Gamble update adds:
    A new merchant will appear in the dungeon: the Death merchant, also known as The Dood. It will offer players a very special deal during the week of Halloween, and will appear less often the rest of the time. Unknown items will be available for fixed price as well!

    VOzunYF.jpg

    A new item will be available thanks to the Death merchant: Time of Sands. It can resuscitate the player who is carrying it, which could be quite useful! Also note that the longer your character carries that item, the more HP they are likely to spawn with.

    HBfuviG.png


    RELEASE NOTES [1.0.88]
    Added a new event, The Dood, a very special merchant with a very special item…
    Optimised AI’s mobs that will slightly improved performance
    Fixed the Rocket Scientist achievement
    In multiplayer mode, heroes can no longer be transferred during the action phase
    Added a visual feedback on skills if you click on them when the cooldown is active
    The last picture of the album is now unlocked after the last level of the game
    Pat can now hit several monsters at his highest level


    WjF4uC7.gif

    MORE TO COME...

    Just so you know, we have been working on a very cool free update that is due next month! It will include the content that you have created and vote for through the GAMES2GETHER: a new organic spaceship, the Vultu mob, the Rosetta hero, and gamepad support amongst other things!

    We'll keep you posted.

    Enjoy,
    ~Amplitude Studios

    Gamepad support coming soon huh? Probably to work with SteamOS; I wouldn't be surprised if they're doing a PS4/XB1/WiiU port too. Unless they already announced that and I missed it?

    Anyway no Android version yet, nor mention of one in production. :(

    Steam: Galedrid - XBL: Galedrid - PSN: Galedrid
    Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
    Blizzard: Galedrid#1367 - FFXIV: Galedrid Kingshand

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    KoopahTroopahKoopahTroopah The koopas, the troopas. Philadelphia, PARegistered User regular
    Annnnnnd I just reinstalled.

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    TeeManTeeMan BrainSpoon Registered User regular
    Whelp! Time to crash back into Auriga. I think I might try my hand at some 4-random character Armory runs or maybe just 2-random Escape Pod and recruit the first two dudes I encounter.

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    TeeManTeeMan BrainSpoon Registered User regular
    @The Dude With Herpes guess who turned out in my latest run
    fvfsevdacjf7.jpg

    It uhh, didn't go quite to plan.
    7339elcsiihc.jpg
    Note the missing Esseb and Lady from that run, who also died along the way haha

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    Ed GrubermanEd Gruberman Registered User regular
    New content incoming (http://steamcommunity.com/app/249050):
    A few months ago Amplitude announced Endless Space 2, but that doesn't mean the developers there (the "Amplidudes and Amplidudettes") aren't working on anything else. In fact, both Endless Legend and Dungeon of the Endless are due to receive updates later this month.
    First, on November 19 (this Thursday), Endless Legend will get a free update the team is calling "Forges of Creation", which—as the name suggests—is related to modding. While modding is already available, this update connects it to the Steam Workshop and makes further improvements: "for example by adding compatibility to a popular Map Editor (bring forth your favorite fantasy worlds to Endless Legend!) or the ability to reskin 3D units". The update also makes improvements to the AI, which will carry forward to Amplitude's other games in future.
    That's all free, but they'll also release a paid-for content pack called The Lost Tales that includes 20 quests related to Minor Factions. There's also Echoes of Auriga, a pack of seven musical tracks composed by FlyByNo, along with some related items such as the "Harp of Noby Fly".
    On November 24, Dungeon of the Endless will also get a free update called "Organic Matters", which contains content that was conceptualised by players in competitions. It includes the Organic Spaceship, three new monsters, a new Rosetta hero, new minor modules, a new ending sequence, and a gamepad interface.
    Dungeon of the Endless will also get a mini content pack called The Rescue Team that adds three Rescue Team heroes with "very unique skills", two new monsters, and a new major module. If you want to find out more, Amplitude will talk about the updates on Twitch on this Thursday November 19.

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    SteamID: edgruberman GOG Galaxy: EdGruberman
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    The Dude With HerpesThe Dude With Herpes Lehi, UTRegistered User regular
    I take the wording to mean The Rescue Team will be paid DLC, and the other will be a free update?

    Still a bit miffed by the community choice for the hero (they picked the most generic and boring of the 3 by a long shot), but hey, free content is free content! :P

    Steam: Galedrid - XBL: Galedrid - PSN: Galedrid
    Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
    Blizzard: Galedrid#1367 - FFXIV: Galedrid Kingshand

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    Custom SpecialCustom Special I know I am, I'm sure I am, I'm Sounders 'til I die!Registered User regular
    Well I just bought this on Steam since it was about $4 in the winter sale. But then I just saw its on iPad for $5 and I can definitely find more time to play it that way, so refund here we go!

    XBL: F4ll0utBP | STEAM | PSN : CustomSpecial | Bnet: F4ll0ut#1636
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