I fell behind network lingo apparently

Henroid

I'm buying a new router today because my brother doesn't have one for some reason. The goal is something wired and wireless (I imagine at this point they make pure wireless gear) with a budget of nothing too far over $60 (under $40 makes me nervous regarding quality; I saw a router for like $30). Oh I guess I also need a cheap wireless card for my PC or a USB adapter (whichever is cheapest).

Problem is there's some things I either don't remember or are outright new and I have no idea what they mean.

I know what IEEE 802.11a/b/g/n is all about for example, but what the hell is IEEE 802.3/3u/3ab?

I also see something called "Wireless standards" and am like "what the hell." What do these even mean?
- Wireless N 300
- Wireless N 150
- Wireless AC
- Dual Band N 300
- Dual Band N 450

Edit - Oh shit, I forgot two more things I'm wondering about.

- What do I have to look out for when it comes to my 3DS connecting, in terms of those standards?
- My brother's mobile apparently needs access points to internet, so same question but for that.

bowen

Wireless N is the new standard above G.

The numbers indicate their max throughput, so 300 would be 300 Mbit/sec

Wireless AC is a standard meant to improve video streaming, IIRC. You can pretty much ignore that for the most part.

Dual band is a type of wireless that uses two radios to connect to your wireless card (if it supports dual band) to basically double your throughput. I'm not sure if DB N 300 increases to 600 Mbit/sec or just gets you closer to the 300 maximum theoretical throughput.

Wireless G is the old standard, it has a maximum speed of 54 MBit/sec

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833156464

I still recommend this! TRENDnet is pretty good, we use them here at work for some stuff (mostly our CCTV system).

Henroid

Oh shit, I forgot two more things I'm wondering about.

- What do I have to look out for when it comes to my 3DS connecting, in terms of those standards?
- My brother's mobile apparently needs access points to internet, so same question but for that.

davidsdurions

I thought dual band just meant that the router worked on both 2.4 and 5.8 GHz frequencies, but not that a device could connect to both at the same time? As an example, I have my iphone set to connect to the 2.4 because it has better range but my tablet that generally stays in the same area as the router is set to 5.8, so they don't compete for bandwidth with each other.

If I'm missing an option to make a device work on both at the same time, please direct me to how that's done because I like the sounds of that.

bowen

You'd need a dual band card to access the dual band part of the access point/router. With just a normal card, it'd just pick whichever frequency it uses. G would be on the 2.4, N would be on the 5.8.

Apple laptops have them and most newer laptops do as well.

As for your 3DS, it looks to me 2.4GHz, so you would be okay with a wireless G router. But the price difference between the two is about $20. This gives you a bit of future proofing too as devices move towards dual band cards.

Henroid

@bowen That one you linked is apparently like $144 if I were to buy it in person. I don't want to buy online because I'm kinda in the "I want something now" mentality.

How does this one look regarding Dual-Band routers? http://www.frys.com/product/6816646?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG

bowen

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833320088

Seems to have "okay" reviews. The 3-4 star ones note lots of fiddling and problems after a few months.

Dehumanized

davidsdurions wrote: »

I thought dual band just meant that the router worked on both 2.4 and 5.8 GHz frequencies, but not that a device could connect to both at the same time? As an example, I have my iphone set to connect to the 2.4 because it has better range but my tablet that generally stays in the same area as the router is set to 5.8, so they don't compete for bandwidth with each other.

If I'm missing an option to make a device work on both at the same time, please direct me to how that's done because I like the sounds of that.

Dual band just means that it has both those frequencies, correct -- and 5.8Ghz is typically a better performing option, but does not pass through walls as well. You only connect to one at a time.

Now, there's also a relatively new technology called MIMO that allows your wireless device to contact multiple antennas (all on the same frequency) and send output/receive input simultaneously. Your wireless device and router both must support it to take advantage, but it can increase your throughput by up to a multiple of the amount of antennas on the router. Support for MIMO is becoming more common on new laptops and smartphones.

bowen

Ah MIMO, that's right.

hsu

I've never found a solid wireless card for a PC, either USB based or PCI based. All of them gave me problems, and I've tried out several from different brands, at different price points, all with good reviews.

Before I just broke down and wired the house, I used a wifi bridge meant for gaming, and connected an ethernet wire to it. That is, my PC was hard wired to the bridge, the bridge connected via wifi to my router.
http://www.trendnet.com/products/proddetail.asp?prod=270_TEW-640MB&cat=167

This worked a hell of a lot better than all of the wifi PC cards or USB devices I tried. The problem with the card/usb was connection at startup (like after you wake your computer from sleep), which usually works fine, but occasionally, the card/usb takes forever to reconnect.

electricitylikesme

Dehumanized wrote: »

davidsdurions wrote: »

I thought dual band just meant that the router worked on both 2.4 and 5.8 GHz frequencies, but not that a device could connect to both at the same time? As an example, I have my iphone set to connect to the 2.4 because it has better range but my tablet that generally stays in the same area as the router is set to 5.8, so they don't compete for bandwidth with each other.

If I'm missing an option to make a device work on both at the same time, please direct me to how that's done because I like the sounds of that.

Dual band just means that it has both those frequencies, correct -- and 5.8Ghz is typically a better performing option, but does not pass through walls as well. You only connect to one at a time.

Now, there's also a relatively new technology called MIMO that allows your wireless device to contact multiple antennas (all on the same frequency) and send output/receive input simultaneously. Your wireless device and router both must support it to take advantage, but it can increase your throughput by up to a multiple of the amount of antennas on the router. Support for MIMO is becoming more common on new laptops and smartphones.

This is wrong. MIMO is baked into the 802.11n standard - it's how that standard achieves its throughput. It was a thing on 802.11g routers for a while before N became common as a sort of value-add, but it's nothing special.

When buying a router which has "dual band" look out that it supports simultaneous dual-band. A lot of routers do 2.4 and 5ghz and claim something like dual-band but can't do both simultaneously (which means if you have a single 2.4ghz device, you can't use 5ghz at all).

Henroid

electricitylikesme wrote: »

When buying a router which has "dual band" look out that it supports simultaneous dual-band. A lot of routers do 2.4 and 5ghz and claim something like dual-band but can't do both simultaneously (which means if you have a single 2.4ghz device, you can't use 5ghz at all).

I'll have to keep that in mind then. Though I may aim for just 2.4ghz on a router because the device has to be in the basement (where the internet hookup / primary computer is) (this house is weird). I'm actually right above it practically, but nobody has OK'd hole-drilling.

bowen

Well the router should make no difference in that regards, just don't get a B router.

Henroid

Okay I went with a Netgear 150n router. It was cheap, it's more than plenty. Password changed so that the dumb default access isn't abused.

Is there anything special I should keep in mind regarding the router's settings? What's "Isolation" in terms of the wireless broadcast?

Zxerol

It prevents wireless clients from communicating with other devices connected to the access point. Probably undesirable in a home environment.

GnomeTank

For future viewers, I didn't see this mentioned (may have missed it): Having your router run in the 5.8ghz band (or dual-band) is almost essential in a modern congested apartment setting. 2.4ghz has horrible cross talk and WILL got stomped out by your neighbors if they are on the same channel as you (which some invariably will be). If you're in a congested apartment (basically if you're "Show me wireless networks" list has 10+ entries at medium or better strength), you really really need a 5.8ghz band router or a dual band router that can do 5.8ghz.

SiliconStew

GnomeTank wrote: »

For future viewers, I didn't see this mentioned (may have missed it): Having your router run in the 5.8ghz band (or dual-band) is almost essential in a modern congested apartment setting. 2.4ghz has horrible cross talk and WILL got stomped out by your neighbors if they are on the same channel as you (which some invariably will be). If you're in a congested apartment (basically if you're "Show me wireless networks" list has 10+ entries at medium or better strength), you really really need a 5.8ghz band router or a dual band router that can do 5.8ghz.

Plus microwaves, cordless phones, baby monitors, game consoles, long-range bluetooth, ad-hoc networks from cellphones, etc are all competing for 2.4ghz channel space.

Zxerol

The reason I ditched my MX Revolution for a wired mouse was because I got an RT-N66U, placed right on my desk, which has no problem chucking out hella 2.4 GHz like woah. I knew someone was using the Internet when my mouse would just die.

jeffinva

Download a scanning app and find out what channel isn't being used, and use that. It eliminates congestion. Of course depending on the density of your apartment complex every channel may be being used, in which case you may as well use the one that is least used.

Henroid

The cell phone traffic is probably my biggest problem; there's only 5 other wireless networks near me. But my mobile broadband (which rode on the cell network) was extreme shit here compared to rural Texas (ironically).

I just learned this morning that my reception is hyper sensitive to the router's positioning. Since last night my connection thru-put was rising and falling dramatically pretty rapidly, and then I learned that my brother had moved the router. I'll have to tell him to not do that in the future. But I also put my USB reception thing on an extension cord which I moved closer toward the router. Things stabled out now.

I hate wireless tech usually but it's most convenient / cost effective atm.

jeffinva

I have a Linsys E3200 or something and it's finicky as well if I get it too close to my dualband using tablet. I moved it into my study/dining room/workout area and it's happy there. I have a feeling it's because where it's sitting the radio has plenty of room to roam before it starts bouncing off shit.

Bigity

Henroid wrote: »

The cell phone traffic is probably my biggest problem; there's only 5 other wireless networks near me. But my mobile broadband (which rode on the cell network) was extreme shit here compared to rural Texas (ironically).

I just learned this morning that my reception is hyper sensitive to the router's positioning. Since last night my connection thru-put was rising and falling dramatically pretty rapidly, and then I learned that my brother had moved the router. I'll have to tell him to not do that in the future. But I also put my USB reception thing on an extension cord which I moved closer toward the router. Things stabled out now.

I hate wireless tech usually but it's most convenient / cost effective atm.

Not in Tyler anymore?

Henroid

Bigity wrote: »

Henroid wrote: »

The cell phone traffic is probably my biggest problem; there's only 5 other wireless networks near me. But my mobile broadband (which rode on the cell network) was extreme shit here compared to rural Texas (ironically).

I just learned this morning that my reception is hyper sensitive to the router's positioning. Since last night my connection thru-put was rising and falling dramatically pretty rapidly, and then I learned that my brother had moved the router. I'll have to tell him to not do that in the future. But I also put my USB reception thing on an extension cord which I moved closer toward the router. Things stabled out now.

I hate wireless tech usually but it's most convenient / cost effective atm.

Not in Tyler anymore?

Back in my childhood city in California. I GOT OUT.