Indeed, legalizing the sale of marijuana won't magically stop illegal sale of marijuana.
However, it has been observed that in states where growing and selling it has been legalizing, illegal sale inside the state has dropped dramatically, because it is difficult for them to compete with the price and quality of what's legally available.
As far as legal pot ending up in the hands of minors, well, we haven't banned tobacco or alcohol sales because of that risk - and before you try and play devil's advocate on that I'll remind you that America did try banning alcohol sales completely before, and we all know how well that worked out.
People aren't against pot for logical reasons? That, I can agree with you on.
The black market in WA is still way cheaper than the legal market. Your costs are much lower when you don't have to source your inventory from licensed growers that put all their product through lab testing, and when you don't have to sell your product with an effective 44% tax rate (in comparison, the WA effective tax rate on beer is around 11%, and 104% on cigarettes). It's also not necessarily the case that switching to visiting one of the few legal stores out there (I believe there are a total of 3 shops within Seattle proper now) is as accessible as continuing to use a dealer.
The WA medical market also has many of the advantages as the black market, as they are not brought into all of the same taxes and regulatory structure as the recreational market. I expect that won't last forever, though. Olympia has been setting their eye on the medical marijuana laws.
This thread always makes me hate my dipshit governor and his presidential ambitions just a little more.
Like gay marriage, nationwide marijuana legalization seems almost inevitable at this point. But since it may be a long road, there is a chance for the states on the ground floor to make great gains in the meantime.
New Jersey is smack dab in between Philadelphia and New York City and if we could actually beat both of those states to the punch by a few years we could see some serious damn returns and a hell of a pot tourism boom until some or all of the surrounding states got wise.
Fuck it, just one more thing this governor won't do to actually boost our economy.
Grew up in Jersey. Everyone smokes. Christie's refusal to take Caesar's cut is yet more proof that he's ashamed of Jersey.
Edith Upwards on
0
TL DRNot at all confident in his reflexive opinions of thingsRegistered Userregular
The black market in WA is still way cheaper than the legal market. Your costs are much lower when you don't have to source your inventory from licensed growers that put all their product through lab testing, and when you don't have to sell your product with an effective 44% tax rate (in comparison, the WA effective tax rate on beer is around 11%, and 104% on cigarettes). It's also not necessarily the case that switching to visiting one of the few legal stores out there (I believe there are a total of 3 shops within Seattle proper now) is as accessible as continuing to use a dealer.
The WA medical market also has many of the advantages as the black market, as they are not brought into all of the same taxes and regulatory structure as the recreational market. I expect that won't last forever, though. Olympia has been setting their eye on the medical marijuana laws.
That's a good example of shitty implementation, though - see also states that didn't allow the Medicaid expansion after the ACA passed. All it proves is that politicians have the power to throw a wrench in good legislation to make it not work as well as it might otherwise have.
Even then a reduction in cannabis trafficking between 0% and 100% is not an argument against legalization.
The black market in WA is still way cheaper than the legal market. Your costs are much lower when you don't have to source your inventory from licensed growers that put all their product through lab testing, and when you don't have to sell your product with an effective 44% tax rate (in comparison, the WA effective tax rate on beer is around 11%, and 104% on cigarettes). It's also not necessarily the case that switching to visiting one of the few legal stores out there (I believe there are a total of 3 shops within Seattle proper now) is as accessible as continuing to use a dealer.
The WA medical market also has many of the advantages as the black market, as they are not brought into all of the same taxes and regulatory structure as the recreational market. I expect that won't last forever, though. Olympia has been setting their eye on the medical marijuana laws.
That's a good example of shitty implementation, though - see also states that didn't allow the Medicaid expansion after the ACA passed. All it proves is that politicians have the power to throw a wrench in good legislation to make it not work as well as it might otherwise have.
Even then a reduction in cannabis trafficking between 0% and 100% is not an argument against legalization.
What exactly are you pointing to as bad implementation? The WA initiative as implemented has been pretty wildly successful, as far as I'm concerned.
The black market in WA is still way cheaper than the legal market. Your costs are much lower when you don't have to source your inventory from licensed growers that put all their product through lab testing, and when you don't have to sell your product with an effective 44% tax rate (in comparison, the WA effective tax rate on beer is around 11%, and 104% on cigarettes). It's also not necessarily the case that switching to visiting one of the few legal stores out there (I believe there are a total of 3 shops within Seattle proper now) is as accessible as continuing to use a dealer.
The WA medical market also has many of the advantages as the black market, as they are not brought into all of the same taxes and regulatory structure as the recreational market. I expect that won't last forever, though. Olympia has been setting their eye on the medical marijuana laws.
That's a good example of shitty implementation, though - see also states that didn't allow the Medicaid expansion after the ACA passed. All it proves is that politicians have the power to throw a wrench in good legislation to make it not work as well as it might otherwise have.
Even then a reduction in cannabis trafficking between 0% and 100% is not an argument against legalization.
What exactly are you pointing to as bad implementation? The WA initiative as implemented has been pretty wildly successful, as far as I'm concerned.
The bad implementation in WA's case is the medical dispensaries. They're basically unregulated so the legal shops can't compete.
Once they get the kibosh the legal places will be better off.
life's a game that you're bound to lose / like using a hammer to pound in screws
fuck up once and you break your thumb / if you're happy at all then you're god damn dumb
that's right we're on a fucked up cruise / God is dead but at least we have booze
bad things happen, no one knows why / the sun burns out and everyone dies
Right, Washington is still working on getting the "purchasing legally" thing up to full-steam. Colorado's prices are, at least according to folks who are more knowledgeable about buying marijuana than I, quite reasonable.
Marty: The future, it's where you're going? Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
There was one study that claimed it doubled your risk of stroke, but then it came out that those with higher stroke risk also smoked cigarettes, which doubles your risk of stroke.
It's pretty inconclusive. My gut says no, but more research is necessary because I don't trust my gut.
Based on my experience at the legal stores compared with my cousin who has a medical card, the recreational stores in Washington currently run about $100 per ounce more than the medicinal places. But more stores (and grow ops) are opening all the time and the gap is slowly starting to shrink.
Sorry to show my squareness, but an 1/8 of an ounce is going to be... how many doobies?
I know marijuana doesn't weigh a lot, but I'm genuinely curious how much the average recreational user is going to purchase in order to have a relaxing toke on the weekend, etc.
FWIW from someone in Washington - I smoke one or two smallish bowls per week and an eighth will typically last me around 4 months, maybe a little less if I wind up sharing with my wife/friends. I'll be curious to see what state stores do to the pricing what with the taxes, but currently I can maintain a mild habit for like $10 per month.
This info is from the first page of the thread, which is a year-old now, so prices may have changed since then.
Black market weed prices:
There is a pretty slidy scale between quality and price. They are selling only the higherish end in CO. This starts at around $100 per 1/4 oz and will last a pretty functional but heavy stoner 1 to 2 weeks.
Prices can be as low as $100/oz, which will last about the same amount of time and give you headaches.
So in CO they are talking about a 25% added cost of getting weed legally without a medical card.
Also all of the OZ measurements are typically actually sold as grams. Which is a ridiculous thing to expect drug people to be able to do in their heads but they can.
The black market in WA is still way cheaper than the legal market. Your costs are much lower when you don't have to source your inventory from licensed growers that put all their product through lab testing, and when you don't have to sell your product with an effective 44% tax rate (in comparison, the WA effective tax rate on beer is around 11%, and 104% on cigarettes). It's also not necessarily the case that switching to visiting one of the few legal stores out there (I believe there are a total of 3 shops within Seattle proper now) is as accessible as continuing to use a dealer.
The WA medical market also has many of the advantages as the black market, as they are not brought into all of the same taxes and regulatory structure as the recreational market. I expect that won't last forever, though. Olympia has been setting their eye on the medical marijuana laws.
That's a good example of shitty implementation, though - see also states that didn't allow the Medicaid expansion after the ACA passed. All it proves is that politicians have the power to throw a wrench in good legislation to make it not work as well as it might otherwise have.
Even then a reduction in cannabis trafficking between 0% and 100% is not an argument against legalization.
What exactly are you pointing to as bad implementation? The WA initiative as implemented has been pretty wildly successful, as far as I'm concerned.
There will always be some level of black market hell we still see that in cigarettes but most people if given the option between a totally legal product that is of a known quality or a black market questionably quality product will spend the money on the legal stuff.
In terms of WA weed prices, very generally speaking:
There are limits on how much marijuana you can buy from the legal stores. Up to 1oz of smokeable marijuana, 16 oz of edibles, or 72oz of infused liquids. Mind you, all of these numbers would be considered a LOT of weed.
Here's a link to Cannabis City's menu. They're one of the stores in Seattle proper. Probably NSFW because it is a site that is offering prices on a substance that might be illegal where you browse from: http://www.leafly.com/dispensary-info/cannabis-city/menu
All the prices look a bit weird because they're designed to come out to even dollar amounts after sales tax (the business is cash-only, due to federal banking laws). Grams come out between $11-$29, depending on the strain you select. I don't know too much about black market prices, but from what I've been told it's around twice as much.
At the medical dispensaries, they are somewhere in-between the two. I know that many of them offer an ounce for $200, but I don't know what specific strains they offer at those prices. That's just over $7/gram, so even if it's not a very high quality product it's clearly still much cheaper than the recreational market.
I'm not proud of it, but I was a heavy smoker, an "oh my fucking god, really?" heavy smoker, and an eighth of an ounce of high end weed would last me 2 days of light usage and cost about $50* on the street. If I got more than that it would go at an even higher rate as the more I had the more I wanted to smoke it and i didn't have much positive going on in my life at the time so I said "fuck it" way too often.
*Not what I paid since being buds with the grower at the time had it's perks.
Veevee on
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TL DRNot at all confident in his reflexive opinions of thingsRegistered Userregular
The black market in WA is still way cheaper than the legal market. Your costs are much lower when you don't have to source your inventory from licensed growers that put all their product through lab testing, and when you don't have to sell your product with an effective 44% tax rate (in comparison, the WA effective tax rate on beer is around 11%, and 104% on cigarettes). It's also not necessarily the case that switching to visiting one of the few legal stores out there (I believe there are a total of 3 shops within Seattle proper now) is as accessible as continuing to use a dealer.
The WA medical market also has many of the advantages as the black market, as they are not brought into all of the same taxes and regulatory structure as the recreational market. I expect that won't last forever, though. Olympia has been setting their eye on the medical marijuana laws.
That's a good example of shitty implementation, though - see also states that didn't allow the Medicaid expansion after the ACA passed. All it proves is that politicians have the power to throw a wrench in good legislation to make it not work as well as it might otherwise have.
Even then a reduction in cannabis trafficking between 0% and 100% is not an argument against legalization.
What exactly are you pointing to as bad implementation? The WA initiative as implemented has been pretty wildly successful, as far as I'm concerned.
Availability has been low and prices high compared to the black market, though this is not as severe as it was for the first several months. I'm not trying to make the perfect the enemy of the good - even if unregulated producers are able to sell cannabis illegally but with less trouble from law enforcement, that's a step in the right direction. But if you compare the tax revenues to those generated in Colorado, it's easy to see that there was resistance to the rollout in WA.
I'm not proud of it, but I was a heavy smoker, an "oh my fucking god, really?" heavy smoker, and an eighth of an ounce of high end weed would last me 2 days of light usage and cost about $50* on the street. If I got more than that it would go at an even higher rate as the more I had the more I wanted to smoke it and i didn't have much positive going on in my life at the time so I said "fuck it" way too often.
*Not what I paid since being buds with the grower at the time had it's perks.
The black market in WA is still way cheaper than the legal market. Your costs are much lower when you don't have to source your inventory from licensed growers that put all their product through lab testing, and when you don't have to sell your product with an effective 44% tax rate (in comparison, the WA effective tax rate on beer is around 11%, and 104% on cigarettes). It's also not necessarily the case that switching to visiting one of the few legal stores out there (I believe there are a total of 3 shops within Seattle proper now) is as accessible as continuing to use a dealer.
The WA medical market also has many of the advantages as the black market, as they are not brought into all of the same taxes and regulatory structure as the recreational market. I expect that won't last forever, though. Olympia has been setting their eye on the medical marijuana laws.
That's a good example of shitty implementation, though - see also states that didn't allow the Medicaid expansion after the ACA passed. All it proves is that politicians have the power to throw a wrench in good legislation to make it not work as well as it might otherwise have.
Even then a reduction in cannabis trafficking between 0% and 100% is not an argument against legalization.
What exactly are you pointing to as bad implementation? The WA initiative as implemented has been pretty wildly successful, as far as I'm concerned.
Availability has been low and prices high compared to the black market, though this is not as severe as it was for the first several months. I'm not trying to make the perfect the enemy of the good - even if unregulated producers are able to sell cannabis illegally but with less trouble from law enforcement, that's a step in the right direction. But if you compare the tax revenues to those generated in Colorado, it's easy to see that there was resistance to the rollout in WA.
They had a lot of trouble in WA getting licenses distributed to growers and stores. The prices are always going to be high compared to the black market with a 44% effective tax rate on product (Colorado's effective rate is roughly 29% -- they also have lower taxes than WA on cigarettes and beer). The supply issues are solved now and I think there'll be enough stores to meet demand not far down the line. I don't think it was the politicians that caused issues, the WSLCB had a tough task in front of them with regards to rolling this out. Lot of uncharted territory. States that come afterwards can look to CO and WA for a lot of assistance on how to make this process smoother.
It all depends on how often you do it, and how. I partake almost every day, and an eighth of an ounce lasts me about a week. But I only do it evenings after work, not all day long. This is with an ordinary glass pipe, if you smoke joints it will go a lot faster, and if you use a vaporizer it will last a lot longer.
depends on the person, but 1 oz should last a month-ish for most light to moderate smokers, maybe a week-ish for heavy (very heavy, lets be honest) smokers
In terms of WA weed prices, very generally speaking:
There are limits on how much marijuana you can buy from the legal stores. Up to 1oz of smokeable marijuana, 16 oz of edibles, or 72oz of infused liquids. Mind you, all of these numbers would be considered a LOT of weed.
Here's a link to Cannabis City's menu. They're one of the stores in Seattle proper. Probably NSFW because it is a site that is offering prices on a substance that might be illegal where you browse from: http://www.leafly.com/dispensary-info/cannabis-city/menu
All the prices look a bit weird because they're designed to come out to even dollar amounts after sales tax (the business is cash-only, due to federal banking laws). Grams come out between $11-$29, depending on the strain you select. I don't know too much about black market prices, but from what I've been told it's around twice as much.
At the medical dispensaries, they are somewhere in-between the two. I know that many of them offer an ounce for $200, but I don't know what specific strains they offer at those prices. That's just over $7/gram, so even if it's not a very high quality product it's clearly still much cheaper than the recreational market.
Maybe I've been spoiled by the medical dispensaries in CA, but I'm not sure I want legal MJ looking at those prices. What, are they taxing it 200%? I know there's a lot of taxes there.
Also. for the other end, I know a grower who sells top quality meds to the dispensaries, and he gets roughly 2k a pound. Which is 16 ounces. That would probably sell for $300 an oz at a medical dispensary here. $300 is typically the cap for an oz, although you can find higher. So that would sell for $4800 roughly at the dispensary.
In terms of WA weed prices, very generally speaking:
There are limits on how much marijuana you can buy from the legal stores. Up to 1oz of smokeable marijuana, 16 oz of edibles, or 72oz of infused liquids. Mind you, all of these numbers would be considered a LOT of weed.
Here's a link to Cannabis City's menu. They're one of the stores in Seattle proper. Probably NSFW because it is a site that is offering prices on a substance that might be illegal where you browse from: http://www.leafly.com/dispensary-info/cannabis-city/menu
All the prices look a bit weird because they're designed to come out to even dollar amounts after sales tax (the business is cash-only, due to federal banking laws). Grams come out between $11-$29, depending on the strain you select. I don't know too much about black market prices, but from what I've been told it's around twice as much.
At the medical dispensaries, they are somewhere in-between the two. I know that many of them offer an ounce for $200, but I don't know what specific strains they offer at those prices. That's just over $7/gram, so even if it's not a very high quality product it's clearly still much cheaper than the recreational market.
Maybe I've been spoiled by the medical dispensaries in CA, but I'm not sure I want legal MJ looking at those prices. What, are they taxing it 200%? I know there's a lot of taxes there.
Also. for the other end, I know a grower who sells top quality meds to the dispensaries, and he gets roughly 2k a pound. Which is 16 ounces. That would probably sell for $300 an oz at a medical dispensary here. $300 is typically the cap for an oz, although you can find higher. So that would sell for $4800 roughly at the dispensary.
There's a few different taxes that are applied. There's a 25% gross tax applied at each step of the production process (grower -> producer, producer -> store, store -> retail customer), a statewide sales tax (usually 9.5% between state and local taxes), and a gross receipts B&O tax applied to the legal marijuana stores.
This is exactly the "legalize it and tax the shit out of it" plan that potheads have been arguing for for decades.
depends on the person, but 1 oz should last a month-ish for most light to moderate smokers, maybe a week-ish for heavy (very heavy, lets be honest) smokers
$300-400 is pretty typical
it really depends
for me, as someone who only ever uses a vaporizer (so efficient), 1/4 will last me MONTHS
The guy's plan for regulating it like a vegetable doesn't seem possible though. No sin tax? The only chance marijuana has for legalization is a big fat fucking sin tax. The money incentive is too big to ignore.
It may not be enough to balance state budgets on its own, but it sure helps.
Texas should just do pretty much exactly what Colorado is doing.
The guy's plan for regulating it like a vegetable doesn't seem possible though. No sin tax? The only chance marijuana has for legalization is a big fat fucking sin tax. The money incentive is too big to ignore.
It may not be enough to balance state budgets on its own, but it sure helps.
Texas should just do pretty much exactly what Colorado is doing.
I imagine amendments would get added on later in the process if the bill actually manages to get out of committee.
The guy's plan for regulating it like a vegetable doesn't seem possible though. No sin tax? The only chance marijuana has for legalization is a big fat fucking sin tax. The money incentive is too big to ignore.
It may not be enough to balance state budgets on its own, but it sure helps.
Texas should just do pretty much exactly what Colorado is doing.
I'd say it's a bit better than that. Texas has a sizable libertarian streak that I don't doubt republicans would want to keep happy.
The reason I say 50/50 chance is there is still a sizable chunk of the voting base who "Don't want everyone to get eat up with the dope" that some legislators have to appease.
The guy's plan for regulating it like a vegetable doesn't seem possible though. No sin tax? The only chance marijuana has for legalization is a big fat fucking sin tax. The money incentive is too big to ignore.
It may not be enough to balance state budgets on its own, but it sure helps.
Texas should just do pretty much exactly what Colorado is doing.
I imagine amendments would get added on later in the process if the bill actually manages to get out of committee.
I do agree that a big old Sin Tax is going to get tacked onto this at some point. It will be the only way to get some lawmakers on board.
I'd say it's a bit better than that. Texas has a sizable libertarian streak that I don't doubt republicans would want to keep happy.
On the other hand, it also has a sizable private prison industry and one of the highest incarceration rates in the states. I'd be pretty surprised if Texas opted for legalization any time soon. Maybe some relaxation of the current laws at best.
On the other hand, 'it's a plant God made, he didn't make a mistake when he made it, and government doesn't need to fix it" seems like it could be a strong argument among Texan conservatives, so I suppose it's possible. I think legalization in Texas could have a significant effect on the situation in Mexico.
edit- bah, I edited the post to be more redundant in its phrasing
I'd say it's a bit better than that. Texas has a sizable libertarian streak that I don't doubt republicans would want to keep happy.
On the other hand, it also has a sizable private prison industry and one of the highest incarceration rates in the states. I'd be pretty surprised if Texas opted for legalization any time soon. Maybe some relaxation of the current laws at best.
On the other hand, 'it's a plant God made, he didn't make a mistake when he made it, and government doesn't need to fix it" seems like it could be a strong argument among Texan conservatives, so I suppose it's possible. I think legalization in Texas could have a significant effect on the situation in Mexico.
Very much this. It would really deal a huge blow to the cartels.
I'd say it's a bit better than that. Texas has a sizable libertarian streak that I don't doubt republicans would want to keep happy.
On the other hand, it also has a sizable private prison industry and one of the highest incarceration rates in the states. I'd be pretty surprised if Texas opted for legalization any time soon. Maybe some relaxation of the current laws at best.
On the other hand, 'it's a plant God made, he didn't make a mistake when he made it, and government doesn't need to fix it" seems like it could be a strong argument among Texan conservatives, so I suppose it's possible. I think legalization in Texas could have a significant effect on the situation in Mexico.
Very much this. It would really deal a huge blow to the cartels.
It would deal a huge blow to the cartels that have not diversified.
Which is not even close to the impact it would have had 10-15 years ago.
Mexico is a good climate for growing poppies, running coke, racketing and pimping.
You have Mexican drug gangs running cities and the surrounding areas operating with near impunity.
They are already moving away from growing garbage weed that can't compete with US products and the price paid to farmers is 1/4 of what it used to be.
I'm all for legislation. And it will have some impact. It is not the impact of would have had once, when the cartels depended on weed exports.
They moistly come out at night, moistly.
+4
TL DRNot at all confident in his reflexive opinions of thingsRegistered Userregular
Fun fact: border control has reported that high-grade American cannabis has been caught going into Mexico, as affluent Mexicans demand better than can be obtained locally.
If Texas and California legalise, then what's to hold Mexico back?
Well, the same actors holding the US back: criminals and corrupt politicians. But it is true that the US has historically leveraged IMMENSE pressure against countries that seemed interested in legalizing drugs. This has been changing gradually over the past 15 years or so, with Portugal being the obvious success story having decriminalized all drugs in 2001 while expanding needle exchange and drug treatment programs. They found that drug use remained more or less consistent but with a sharp decrease in drug deaths, HIV infections, and drug use in minors as well as an increase in treatment uptake. Individuals caught with drugs under the 'intent to sell' limit are basically asked nicely to come in for an evaluation and offered rehab if a social worker deems it appropriate. Repeat offenders are looking at small fines or community service unless they're drug addicts, because duh.
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However, it has been observed that in states where growing and selling it has been legalizing, illegal sale inside the state has dropped dramatically, because it is difficult for them to compete with the price and quality of what's legally available.
As far as legal pot ending up in the hands of minors, well, we haven't banned tobacco or alcohol sales because of that risk - and before you try and play devil's advocate on that I'll remind you that America did try banning alcohol sales completely before, and we all know how well that worked out.
People aren't against pot for logical reasons? That, I can agree with you on.
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
The WA medical market also has many of the advantages as the black market, as they are not brought into all of the same taxes and regulatory structure as the recreational market. I expect that won't last forever, though. Olympia has been setting their eye on the medical marijuana laws.
Grew up in Jersey. Everyone smokes. Christie's refusal to take Caesar's cut is yet more proof that he's ashamed of Jersey.
That's a good example of shitty implementation, though - see also states that didn't allow the Medicaid expansion after the ACA passed. All it proves is that politicians have the power to throw a wrench in good legislation to make it not work as well as it might otherwise have.
Even then a reduction in cannabis trafficking between 0% and 100% is not an argument against legalization.
What exactly are you pointing to as bad implementation? The WA initiative as implemented has been pretty wildly successful, as far as I'm concerned.
The bad implementation in WA's case is the medical dispensaries. They're basically unregulated so the legal shops can't compete.
Once they get the kibosh the legal places will be better off.
fuck up once and you break your thumb / if you're happy at all then you're god damn dumb
that's right we're on a fucked up cruise / God is dead but at least we have booze
bad things happen, no one knows why / the sun burns out and everyone dies
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
There was one study that claimed it doubled your risk of stroke, but then it came out that those with higher stroke risk also smoked cigarettes, which doubles your risk of stroke.
It's pretty inconclusive. My gut says no, but more research is necessary because I don't trust my gut.
what is a regular price of an ounce?
or whatever the unit is that people use idk
/noob
This info is from the first page of the thread, which is a year-old now, so prices may have changed since then.
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
Black market weed prices:
There is a pretty slidy scale between quality and price. They are selling only the higherish end in CO. This starts at around $100 per 1/4 oz and will last a pretty functional but heavy stoner 1 to 2 weeks.
Prices can be as low as $100/oz, which will last about the same amount of time and give you headaches.
So in CO they are talking about a 25% added cost of getting weed legally without a medical card.
Also all of the OZ measurements are typically actually sold as grams. Which is a ridiculous thing to expect drug people to be able to do in their heads but they can.
There will always be some level of black market hell we still see that in cigarettes but most people if given the option between a totally legal product that is of a known quality or a black market questionably quality product will spend the money on the legal stuff.
There are limits on how much marijuana you can buy from the legal stores. Up to 1oz of smokeable marijuana, 16 oz of edibles, or 72oz of infused liquids. Mind you, all of these numbers would be considered a LOT of weed.
Here's a link to Cannabis City's menu. They're one of the stores in Seattle proper. Probably NSFW because it is a site that is offering prices on a substance that might be illegal where you browse from:
http://www.leafly.com/dispensary-info/cannabis-city/menu
All the prices look a bit weird because they're designed to come out to even dollar amounts after sales tax (the business is cash-only, due to federal banking laws). Grams come out between $11-$29, depending on the strain you select. I don't know too much about black market prices, but from what I've been told it's around twice as much.
At the medical dispensaries, they are somewhere in-between the two. I know that many of them offer an ounce for $200, but I don't know what specific strains they offer at those prices. That's just over $7/gram, so even if it's not a very high quality product it's clearly still much cheaper than the recreational market.
I'm not proud of it, but I was a heavy smoker, an "oh my fucking god, really?" heavy smoker, and an eighth of an ounce of high end weed would last me 2 days of light usage and cost about $50* on the street. If I got more than that it would go at an even higher rate as the more I had the more I wanted to smoke it and i didn't have much positive going on in my life at the time so I said "fuck it" way too often.
*Not what I paid since being buds with the grower at the time had it's perks.
Availability has been low and prices high compared to the black market, though this is not as severe as it was for the first several months. I'm not trying to make the perfect the enemy of the good - even if unregulated producers are able to sell cannabis illegally but with less trouble from law enforcement, that's a step in the right direction. But if you compare the tax revenues to those generated in Colorado, it's easy to see that there was resistance to the rollout in WA.
As a serious stoner, 'oh my fucking god really.'
They had a lot of trouble in WA getting licenses distributed to growers and stores. The prices are always going to be high compared to the black market with a 44% effective tax rate on product (Colorado's effective rate is roughly 29% -- they also have lower taxes than WA on cigarettes and beer). The supply issues are solved now and I think there'll be enough stores to meet demand not far down the line. I don't think it was the politicians that caused issues, the WSLCB had a tough task in front of them with regards to rolling this out. Lot of uncharted territory. States that come afterwards can look to CO and WA for a lot of assistance on how to make this process smoother.
depends on the person, but 1 oz should last a month-ish for most light to moderate smokers, maybe a week-ish for heavy (very heavy, lets be honest) smokers
$300-400 is pretty typical
Maybe I've been spoiled by the medical dispensaries in CA, but I'm not sure I want legal MJ looking at those prices. What, are they taxing it 200%? I know there's a lot of taxes there.
Also. for the other end, I know a grower who sells top quality meds to the dispensaries, and he gets roughly 2k a pound. Which is 16 ounces. That would probably sell for $300 an oz at a medical dispensary here. $300 is typically the cap for an oz, although you can find higher. So that would sell for $4800 roughly at the dispensary.
There's a few different taxes that are applied. There's a 25% gross tax applied at each step of the production process (grower -> producer, producer -> store, store -> retail customer), a statewide sales tax (usually 9.5% between state and local taxes), and a gross receipts B&O tax applied to the legal marijuana stores.
This is exactly the "legalize it and tax the shit out of it" plan that potheads have been arguing for for decades.
This Tax Foundation article outlines the tax situation in CO and WA pretty well, explaining what's being applied and what sort of revenue that means for the states:
http://taxfoundation.org/article/taxing-marijuana-washington-and-colorado-experience
http://www.khou.com/story/news/local/texas/2015/03/03/republican-state-lawmaker-proposes-dismantling-texas-marijuana-laws/24342887/
And the edible candies and date nut health balls and things
So civilized
it really depends
for me, as someone who only ever uses a vaporizer (so efficient), 1/4 will last me MONTHS
I'd say it's a bit better than that. Texas has a sizable libertarian streak that I don't doubt republicans would want to keep happy.
It may not be enough to balance state budgets on its own, but it sure helps.
Texas should just do pretty much exactly what Colorado is doing.
I imagine amendments would get added on later in the process if the bill actually manages to get out of committee.
Republicans don't like taxes.
The reason I say 50/50 chance is there is still a sizable chunk of the voting base who "Don't want everyone to get eat up with the dope" that some legislators have to appease.
I do agree that a big old Sin Tax is going to get tacked onto this at some point. It will be the only way to get some lawmakers on board.
On the other hand, 'it's a plant God made, he didn't make a mistake when he made it, and government doesn't need to fix it" seems like it could be a strong argument among Texan conservatives, so I suppose it's possible. I think legalization in Texas could have a significant effect on the situation in Mexico.
edit- bah, I edited the post to be more redundant in its phrasing
Very much this. It would really deal a huge blow to the cartels.
It would deal a huge blow to the cartels that have not diversified.
Which is not even close to the impact it would have had 10-15 years ago.
Mexico is a good climate for growing poppies, running coke, racketing and pimping.
You have Mexican drug gangs running cities and the surrounding areas operating with near impunity.
They are already moving away from growing garbage weed that can't compete with US products and the price paid to farmers is 1/4 of what it used to be.
I'm all for legislation. And it will have some impact. It is not the impact of would have had once, when the cartels depended on weed exports.
USA! USA! USA!
Well, the same actors holding the US back: criminals and corrupt politicians. But it is true that the US has historically leveraged IMMENSE pressure against countries that seemed interested in legalizing drugs. This has been changing gradually over the past 15 years or so, with Portugal being the obvious success story having decriminalized all drugs in 2001 while expanding needle exchange and drug treatment programs. They found that drug use remained more or less consistent but with a sharp decrease in drug deaths, HIV infections, and drug use in minors as well as an increase in treatment uptake. Individuals caught with drugs under the 'intent to sell' limit are basically asked nicely to come in for an evaluation and offered rehab if a social worker deems it appropriate. Repeat offenders are looking at small fines or community service unless they're drug addicts, because duh.