This show is so well written i'm inclined to think that the Maggie/Cohle stuff is really just showing how he's able to communicate with her on a more human level than other people, and how she enjoys how honest he is about who he is since she's not getting that from her husband.
That being said, it wouldn't be bad writing to me if they explored potential infidelity between the two of them, but I don't think it's a given that this show is going there. In some other shows, based on what we've seen I'd 100% be sure they were going there.
Since we're talking about it a little more in the open (I think we'll figure out a natural flow for spoilers), I do not think we'll see a traditional infidelity scenario. My wonder was more that Cohle and Maggie are just getting close as people. The most I'd ever anticipate is some weird lingering hug or something. But it's usually the jealousy and distrust that breeds the animosity. Whether or not the acts are real.
stevemarks44 on
0
Options
Irond WillWARNING: NO HURTFUL COMMENTS, PLEASE!!!!!Cambridge. MAModeratormod
when they identified the ex-boyfriend of that girl who had been washed up by the stream, who did they say his cellmate was? i missed it
Yeah, it's a huge link, seemingly blows the whole case wide open. Of course, as the audience we know better. Gonna be interesting to see where it goes next episode.
My guess is going to be that Reggie Ledeoux(gas mask duder) is going to be a drug dealer involved in the drugs used in the Lange murder, not necessarily tied to the murder directly, and that lead is going to end up with Cohle getting involved in some undercover shenanigans. Can't wait, wish they were running an ep on Saturday this week. =(
+2
Options
darklite_xI'm not an r-tard...Registered Userregular
No way, dude's gotta be the murderer. Well he doesn't have to be, but with only 5 episodes left I could see them wrapping up the past case in this next episode with gas mask being the murderer (or at least the guy they pin it on), and then spending the final four episodes doing a similar investigation story into the new murderer. Personally I think it's a copycat killer, but that's mostly because I don't see past Cohle screwing up the case. He seems too thorough and smart to fuck it up.
Steam ID: darklite_x Xbox Gamertag: Darklite 37 PSN:Rage_Kage_37 Battle.Net:darklite#2197
No way, dude's gotta be the murderer. Well he doesn't have to be, but with only 5 episodes left I could see them wrapping up the past case in this next episode with gas mask being the murderer (or at least the guy they pin it on), and then spending the final four episodes doing a similar investigation story into the new murderer. Personally I think it's a copycat killer, but that's mostly because I don't see past Cohle screwing up the case. He seems too thorough and smart to fuck it up.
It's not a copycat, or at least I think not. That's the point of the ending of the first episode ("start asking the right fucking questions").
Ledoux is gonna get pinned as the killer, but he's not, and Cohle knows this. I think next episode will be them taking down Reggie, the higher-ups pressuring them to close the case, Cohle knowing it's not him, but political bullshit leading to them pinning it on him anyway. Then we have four episodes to figure out who the real killer is.
The alternate theory is that Ledoux was doing the deed, but somebody else higher up was leading some sort of cult that required it, and that the political pressure to just close the case is why the root of the murders was never pursued (and instead they were satisfied just getting the guy holding the knife).
I think it's very likely that Cohle and Hart will recognize that Ledoux is NOT the real killer, but as others have said, that task force is kind of a checkov's gun. They made such a big stink about them, and I think it's for one of two reasons.
Even though we've gotten lax, I'm going to spoiler the rest of my post just because I will talk about some more specific theories:
1) The Reverend is the big bad and that presents a problem Cohle and Hart because they can't tough him even if they suspect its him. It also fulfills a detective trope of the evil clergyman or whatever.
2) (this one I'm more inclined to agree with) MUCH like the West Memphis 3 case IRL, the task force is very clearly trying to put someone in jail and move on so that their town feels safe again. Cohle seemed pretty adamant that he's a great judge of character. The show has shown us this iirc (doesn't he say something to the effect of knowing someone is telling the truth?)
I could see a scenario where even Hart believes they've got the right guy, be it Ledoux in the next ep or someone further down the line. Cohle knows they nabbed the wrong guy, and when he tries to make noise, they send him back undercover knowing he won't be able to be out in public to squash their back-patting and hi-fiving in the media. Hart realizes Cohle was right, and the two spend the rest of the season trying to find the real killer in a reluctant, more hyper-extreme version of their partnership from earlier.
I think that scenario plays with a LOT of the themes and open-ended motifs we've already seen, and is a pretty logical narrative path. It's not too derivative but it's also not a total curveball. It lets us look at Cohle as the hero and it absolves Hart of anything too serious as his guilt is due to ignorance.
Ive just started casually rewatching all three eps.
It's been such a long time since I've been this amped about a show.
Like, we're kind of reaching the end of an era. The dramas I get/got excited for are all ending or have ended. And even then, the Mad Mens and Breaking Bads of the world were such old hat that getting excited about them was something you just did. Sure, last 8 eps of Breaking Bad, this is crazy! But it's a crazy I've been living with for five years.
True Detective came out of nowhere and I'm having a blast obsessing over a show that has no backlog of episodes.
The scene where Cohle is in the passenger's seat and he sees the little girl and she waves.
His next line (to Hart): "you believe in ghosts?"
Did he just see the ghost of his daughter?!
That's how I interpreted it the first time I watched it, combined with the
raven swirl and his self admittance to having visions while on drugs.
yeah..
I don't think it was a "ghost" per se though...more that the guy is not well mentally
+8
Options
JacobkoshGamble a stamp.I can show you how to be a real man!Moderatormod
I rwatched the first episode today and one of my favorite little bits of random dialog setup/payoff is where early on, in that first car ride, Cohle says he can "smell the psychosphere"
and then later Hart is yelling at him about how weird he is and "all that bullshit about smelling a psycho's fear"
I don't think he saw a ghost of his daughter, just a hallucination from his pill habit.
Sorry I should clarify (I had a fewwww drinks when I posted that! ;-))
I wasn't saying he ACTUALLY saw his dead daughter's ghost. I understand it was most likely a pill hallucination. But it was just an awesome callback that we don't know for sure the situation at that point, and maybe the lot of you are smarter than I am, but I just thought it was cool that in rewatching it's very clearly a hallucination and not just a sad character intro where he sees a sad little girl.
Essentially this show is SUPER layered and is constantly winking at you on every rewatch
I think the thing between Maggie and Cohle is that she likes his honesty and he likes feeling like a normal person. They're both using each other for their private fantasies of what things used to be like for each of them.
Maggie - caring, honest husband
Cohle - Normal suburban life
This show is so damned good.
Also in rewatching the first ep and seeing them discuss the fallout between Hart and Cohle, it's p obvious that Maggie is definitely the catalyst one way or another.
Also in rewatching the first ep and seeing them discuss the fallout between Hart and Cohle, it's p obvious that Maggie is definitely the catalyst one way or another.
Oh yeah. Whether it's something out there like him actually hooking up with Maggie (perhaps even after she and Hart split) or something smaller like him leading to her finding out (explicitly) about the infidelity, I definitely see Maggie having something to do with it.
+1
Options
JacobkoshGamble a stamp.I can show you how to be a real man!Moderatormod
I think a lot of Cohle and Maggie's friendship is rooted in their shared intelligence. She actually tells Hart "you used to be smarter," which, ouch! That moment really stuck with me because it's the sort of thing real people say but that you never see anyone talk about in movie marriages.
And we know Hart's not dumb, exactly. He says a lot of insightful things about his job that show that he thinks about this stuff - and you can see a bit of what younger Hart might have been like when he dunks on his father-in-law. But now he comes home numb and half-drunk and she doesn't have anyone to talk to besides two gradeschool daughters.
And then Cohle shows up from the mysterious cosmopolitan land of Texas and he's thoughtful and incisive and is as much an outsider to this place as she probably feels like.
+14
Options
ZampanovYou May Not Go HomeUntil Tonight Has Been MagicalRegistered Userregular
Getting my roommate into it right now. Spreading it like a virus.
not being married anymore, would probably lead him to being married to the job. But he's in the private sector now, private security firm? I am guessing he lost it on the job and was forced resigned after his wife leaves him.
0
Options
ZampanovYou May Not Go HomeUntil Tonight Has Been MagicalRegistered Userregular
I don't buy any "Rust is the killer" stuff. IMO the modern detectives seem interested in Cohle because he's a weird cat and probably fought against people thinking they had the right guy the first time, and thus they think he might be equipped better to help them get in the head of the right guy now.
"How could it be him if we caught him in 95?"
"I figured you'd be the one to know."
To me that is not 'We think you're the guy,' but rather 'Please use your nihilistic savant powers to help us get the right guy this time around.'
I think they're still keeping their options open, and probably got the push from on high to look at Cohle as a suspect, since he probably pissed off a whole pile of people above him before he left.
At first I trying to gauge each of the "other" detectives response to Cohle. It kinda seemed like the one played by Michael Potts (aka Brother Mouzone) was a tad more receptive to what he was saying and his philosophy , that is as opposed to his partner. Kinda backed up indirectly , in that they may have a similar style, in that Hart immediately guesses that Potts is the "box man" .
I suspect I'm the only one who did this and it's largely in my head .
That aside, Rust being a "suspect" seems like too easy an out for a show that thus far seems to be taking strides to avoid such contrivances .
A tad curious, before watching this episode was anyone else expecting Bret to be the perceived murderer? As said before being introduced to him; just noticing his prominence in the intro sequence .
I mean after you watch the show, it's pretty clear from the get-go that Bret isn't the "King in Yellow" and his inclusion in the intro sequence has much more to do with the rampant spiritualism in the area/show.
0
Options
JacobkoshGamble a stamp.I can show you how to be a real man!Moderatormod
My feeling right now re: killers old and new is that
Rust is not the new or "real" killer, and he is definitely not the original killer (the timeline doesn't match up at all; he was in Texas when the girl drowned five years ago and was still in Texas in 1994 when Dora started going to church.)
Having him be the new killer, sent round the bend by his experiences or whatever, would be dumb and stupid and uggh and I don't think it is very likely that the show would do this.
Having him be suspected of being the killer is something that I could very easily see happening, although I still think it is more likely that the current detectives really are just seeking his advice or input.
I am fond of the theory someone here had that his time "off the grid" from 2002-2010 was spent back in narco.
+2
Options
ComradebotLord of DinosaursHouston, TXRegistered Userregular
Question is if Rust-as-killer is the horse or the zebra.
Given the long odds that he'd be assigned his own case, I go zebra. But these guys might see pure horse.
I dunno, dude. Zebras can look fucking shifty:
0
Options
JacobkoshGamble a stamp.I can show you how to be a real man!Moderatormod
Another note as I rewatch the first three episodes:
I really like the tent revival preacher. His delivery is fantastic (as you'd hope; say what you will, but those guys are supposed to be pure charisma) but I also love the poetry of the language they gave him.
"...and his body is the stars, and the wind between the stars..."
or "this world is a veil. And the face you wear is not your own!"
While the church is full of grotesques (though to be fair, so is the entire world of the show) I like that the preacher himself seems polite, intelligent and helpful. Making him an oily villain would have been too obvious.
Another note as I rewatch the first three episodes:
I really like the tent revival preacher. His delivery is fantastic (as you'd hope; say what you will, but those guys are supposed to be pure charisma) but I also love the poetry of the language they gave him.
"...and his body is the stars, and the wind between the stars..."
or "this world is a veil. And the face you wear is not your own!"
While the church is full of grotesques (though to be fair, so is the entire world of the show) I like that the preacher himself seems polite, intelligent and helpful. Making him an oily villain would have been too obvious.
Yeah, if he ends up being the killer it will be very odd, as he seemed to be more a caretaker for a group of misfits than anything else. You saw this as even Cohle warmed up to him once he stopped preaching.
Great character and great acting, as opposed to the reaction to the preacher who came into the precinct, this guy had his preaching as a day job with the rest of his time trying to take care of his people, which Cohle respected a lot more.
Another note as I rewatch the first three episodes:
I really like the tent revival preacher. His delivery is fantastic (as you'd hope; say what you will, but those guys are supposed to be pure charisma) but I also love the poetry of the language they gave him.
"...and his body is the stars, and the wind between the stars..."
or "this world is a veil. And the face you wear is not your own!"
While the church is full of grotesques (though to be fair, so is the entire world of the show) I like that the preacher himself seems polite, intelligent and helpful. Making him an oily villain would have been too obvious.
He does a great job as Steve Buscemis brother in Boardwalk Empire too.
+7
Options
ZampanovYou May Not Go HomeUntil Tonight Has Been MagicalRegistered Userregular
I don't buy any "Rust is the killer" stuff. IMO the modern detectives seem interested in Cohle because he's a weird cat and probably fought against people thinking they had the right guy the first time, and thus they think he might be equipped better to help them get in the head of the right guy now.
"How could it be him if we caught him in 95?"
"I figured you'd be the one to know."
To me that is not 'We think you're the guy,' but rather 'Please use your nihilistic savant powers to help us get the right guy this time around.'
There's definitely a curiosity about Rust in a general sense but pay attention to some of the questions they ask, or most importantly, what they don't ask. At one point the younger detective sees an opportunity to start digging in that direction when they reference the new killing and he starts "You were off the grid for eight years.." before Brother Mouzone cuts him off, asking a much less pointed question. Like either he's not interested in that line and his partner is, or he's interested but knows Rust might clamp down if they start asking shit like that and he's trying to tell his partner, "Not yet, asshole! Don't show your hand to this guy!"
Not to say they'll really ever delve into those questions, but I feel like the interest and suspicion are established there
Posts
Since we're talking about it a little more in the open (I think we'll figure out a natural flow for spoilers), I do not think we'll see a traditional infidelity scenario. My wonder was more that Cohle and Maggie are just getting close as people. The most I'd ever anticipate is some weird lingering hug or something. But it's usually the jealousy and distrust that breeds the animosity. Whether or not the acts are real.
Dude from ep 1, the ex of the victim (Dora?) in prison.
Reggie Ledoux is the guy they're looking for, his former cellmate is Charlie Lange(Murder vic Dora's ex husband), this guy:
It's not a copycat, or at least I think not. That's the point of the ending of the first episode ("start asking the right fucking questions").
Ledoux is gonna get pinned as the killer, but he's not, and Cohle knows this. I think next episode will be them taking down Reggie, the higher-ups pressuring them to close the case, Cohle knowing it's not him, but political bullshit leading to them pinning it on him anyway. Then we have four episodes to figure out who the real killer is.
The alternate theory is that Ledoux was doing the deed, but somebody else higher up was leading some sort of cult that required it, and that the political pressure to just close the case is why the root of the murders was never pursued (and instead they were satisfied just getting the guy holding the knife).
Even though we've gotten lax, I'm going to spoiler the rest of my post just because I will talk about some more specific theories:
2) (this one I'm more inclined to agree with) MUCH like the West Memphis 3 case IRL, the task force is very clearly trying to put someone in jail and move on so that their town feels safe again. Cohle seemed pretty adamant that he's a great judge of character. The show has shown us this iirc (doesn't he say something to the effect of knowing someone is telling the truth?)
I could see a scenario where even Hart believes they've got the right guy, be it Ledoux in the next ep or someone further down the line. Cohle knows they nabbed the wrong guy, and when he tries to make noise, they send him back undercover knowing he won't be able to be out in public to squash their back-patting and hi-fiving in the media. Hart realizes Cohle was right, and the two spend the rest of the season trying to find the real killer in a reluctant, more hyper-extreme version of their partnership from earlier.
I think that scenario plays with a LOT of the themes and open-ended motifs we've already seen, and is a pretty logical narrative path. It's not too derivative but it's also not a total curveball. It lets us look at Cohle as the hero and it absolves Hart of anything too serious as his guilt is due to ignorance.
It's been such a long time since I've been this amped about a show.
Like, we're kind of reaching the end of an era. The dramas I get/got excited for are all ending or have ended. And even then, the Mad Mens and Breaking Bads of the world were such old hat that getting excited about them was something you just did. Sure, last 8 eps of Breaking Bad, this is crazy! But it's a crazy I've been living with for five years.
True Detective came out of nowhere and I'm having a blast obsessing over a show that has no backlog of episodes.
There is hope for the golden age of TV yet!
Also they have such a pleasant and caring rapport.
Ugh. Life.
huge crazy spoiler thought:
His next line (to Hart): "you believe in ghosts?"
Did he just see the ghost of his daughter?!
That's how I interpreted it the first time I watched it, combined with the
yeah..
I don't think it was a "ghost" per se though...more that the guy is not well mentally
and then later Hart is yelling at him about how weird he is and "all that bullshit about smelling a psycho's fear"
Sorry I should clarify (I had a fewwww drinks when I posted that! ;-))
Essentially this show is SUPER layered and is constantly winking at you on every rewatch
Maggie - caring, honest husband
Cohle - Normal suburban life
This show is so damned good.
Oh yeah. Whether it's something out there like him actually hooking up with Maggie (perhaps even after she and Hart split) or something smaller like him leading to her finding out (explicitly) about the infidelity, I definitely see Maggie having something to do with it.
And we know Hart's not dumb, exactly. He says a lot of insightful things about his job that show that he thinks about this stuff - and you can see a bit of what younger Hart might have been like when he dunks on his father-in-law. But now he comes home numb and half-drunk and she doesn't have anyone to talk to besides two gradeschool daughters.
And then Cohle shows up from the mysterious cosmopolitan land of Texas and he's thoughtful and incisive and is as much an outsider to this place as she probably feels like.
PSN/XBL: Zampanov -- Steam: Zampanov
It's a sad statement of the place they're in that Texas is a sophisticated foreign land to them.
My take right now is that
Oh I didn't even think of that - I really like that, this show is chock full of little details.
Also it is really fucking good.
My favourite moment so far is probably the end of the first episode.
PSN/XBL: Zampanov -- Steam: Zampanov
"How could it be him if we caught him in 95?"
"I figured you'd be the one to know."
To me that is not 'We think you're the guy,' but rather 'Please use your nihilistic savant powers to help us get the right guy this time around.'
Question is if Rust-as-killer is the horse or the zebra.
Given the long odds that he'd be assigned his own case, I go zebra. But these guys might see pure horse.
I suspect I'm the only one who did this and it's largely in my head .
That aside, Rust being a "suspect" seems like too easy an out for a show that thus far seems to be taking strides to avoid such contrivances .
I mean after you watch the show, it's pretty clear from the get-go that Bret isn't the "King in Yellow" and his inclusion in the intro sequence has much more to do with the rampant spiritualism in the area/show.
Having him be the new killer, sent round the bend by his experiences or whatever, would be dumb and stupid and uggh and I don't think it is very likely that the show would do this.
Having him be suspected of being the killer is something that I could very easily see happening, although I still think it is more likely that the current detectives really are just seeking his advice or input.
I am fond of the theory someone here had that his time "off the grid" from 2002-2010 was spent back in narco.
I dunno, dude. Zebras can look fucking shifty:
I really like the tent revival preacher. His delivery is fantastic (as you'd hope; say what you will, but those guys are supposed to be pure charisma) but I also love the poetry of the language they gave him.
"...and his body is the stars, and the wind between the stars..."
or "this world is a veil. And the face you wear is not your own!"
While the church is full of grotesques (though to be fair, so is the entire world of the show) I like that the preacher himself seems polite, intelligent and helpful. Making him an oily villain would have been too obvious.
Yeah, if he ends up being the killer it will be very odd, as he seemed to be more a caretaker for a group of misfits than anything else. You saw this as even Cohle warmed up to him once he stopped preaching.
Great character and great acting, as opposed to the reaction to the preacher who came into the precinct, this guy had his preaching as a day job with the rest of his time trying to take care of his people, which Cohle respected a lot more.
He does a great job as Steve Buscemis brother in Boardwalk Empire too.
Not to say they'll really ever delve into those questions, but I feel like the interest and suspicion are established there
PSN/XBL: Zampanov -- Steam: Zampanov