So far my main concern is that the protagionist is going to be a knucklehead.
Tales seems to keep going back and forth with it lately.
Is it weird for me to say I've given up mostly on the characters not being horrid stereotypes? The Tales games make better characters out of their pets or puppets than their MCs I've noticed.
Well...most Tales characters are anime stereotypes to some degree or another.
That isn't what bothered me. I just don't want another Emil or Asbel.
There is admittedly more room for non-main-characters to have personality.
Yuri is a high point for them, even if he's still cliche he's at least interesting and a far more mature one (the Flynn dynamic is nice, if also a cliche).
I clearly missed Jude's serial killer side, but I couldn't bring myself to replay Xillia on his route (I don't regret starting Milla, because the costume for her route is awesome)... which is sad, since I've replayed Symphonia like 5 times and Vesperia a few.
It's too bad Graces only lets you turn party members into each other in battle.
I'm far more into them for the side wackiness and gameplay than story, I'll admit. Pascal is one of most interesting characters to play in a long time.
So far my main concern is that the protagionist is going to be a knucklehead.
Tales seems to keep going back and forth with it lately.
Is it weird for me to say I've given up mostly on the characters not being horrid stereotypes? The Tales games make better characters out of their pets or puppets than their MCs I've noticed.
Well...most Tales characters are anime stereotypes to some degree or another.
That isn't what bothered me. I just don't want another Emil or Asbel.
There is admittedly more room for non-main-characters to have personality.
Yuri is a high point for them, even if he's still cliche he's at least interesting and a far more mature one (the Flynn dynamic is nice, if also a cliche).
I clearly missed Jude's serial killer side, but I couldn't bring myself to replay Xillia on his route (I don't regret starting Milla, because the costume for her route is awesome)... which is sad, since I've replayed Symphonia like 5 times and Vesperia a few.
It's too bad Graces only lets you turn party members into each other in battle.
The joke re: Jude's serial killer side, is that at the beginning of the game, he breaks into a restricted area and when the guard tells him that he shouldn't be here, please leave immediately, Jude responds by entering combat and killing the guard, and then proceeding through the dungeon and killing all the other guards (maybe he was disabling the guards, but it certainly looks likes kills based on how combat is normally treated as being resolved). Mostly it's just a joke based around the dis-congruity between storytelling and game mechanics.
I haven't gotten the whole way through ToX2 yet, but while I think they were aiming to have the protagonist of the game be a silent protagonist/player stand-in character, it comes off more as someone with difficulty socializing, participating in normal social discourse, and even possibly someone with a spectrum disorder depending on the particular scene. This even gets lampshaded in a few of the victory quotes (Rowan + Ludger for example). I've found the characterization of the other party members to be pretty good, although there's some hints at character type trends I find a bit disappointing with Mila's character.
I'm around chapter 9/10 in the story, and there's a bit of a whiff of 'waifu' about how they've characterized Mila in this game. While it appears this may be a different person entirely than the Mila we saw in the previous game (please don't spoil things whichever way it turns out to be), I found it disappointing to disempower what was a very strong female character who did not need to be empowered through the role of a man).
I'm pretty sure
the game explicitly tells you that Milla is not the "true" Milla the second you get her, given that you acquire her in one of the fractured dimensions.
+1
Options
DemonStaceyTTODewback's DaughterIn love with the TaySwayRegistered Userregular
I haven't gotten the whole way through ToX2 yet, but while I think they were aiming to have the protagonist of the game be a silent protagonist/player stand-in character, it comes off more as someone with difficulty socializing, participating in normal social discourse, and even possibly someone with a spectrum disorder depending on the particular scene. This even gets lampshaded in a few of the victory quotes (Rowan + Ludger for example). I've found the characterization of the other party members to be pretty good, although there's some hints at character type trends I find a bit disappointing with Mila's character.
I'm around chapter 9/10 in the story, and there's a bit of a whiff of 'waifu' about how they've characterized Mila in this game. While it appears this may be a different person entirely than the Mila we saw in the previous game (please don't spoil things whichever way it turns out to be), I found it disappointing to disempower what was a very strong female character who did not need to be empowered through the role of a man).
I'm pretty sure
the game explicitly tells you that Milla is not the "true" Milla the second you get her, given that you acquire her in one of the fractured dimensions.
Yea I'm not sure how you could have this character and not know what was going on unless you were playing with the game muted for a few hours...
Unrelated:
I hope this new one doesn't lock as much stuff behind the post game. Because god damn like half the weapons in ToX2 are locked away behind the post-game. I will never understand that game design decision and Tales seems to be getting worse and worse about it.
I haven't gotten the whole way through ToX2 yet, but while I think they were aiming to have the protagonist of the game be a silent protagonist/player stand-in character, it comes off more as someone with difficulty socializing, participating in normal social discourse, and even possibly someone with a spectrum disorder depending on the particular scene. This even gets lampshaded in a few of the victory quotes (Rowan + Ludger for example). I've found the characterization of the other party members to be pretty good, although there's some hints at character type trends I find a bit disappointing with Mila's character.
I'm around chapter 9/10 in the story, and there's a bit of a whiff of 'waifu' about how they've characterized Mila in this game. While it appears this may be a different person entirely than the Mila we saw in the previous game (please don't spoil things whichever way it turns out to be), I found it disappointing to disempower what was a very strong female character who did not need to be empowered through the role of a man).
I'm pretty sure
the game explicitly tells you that Milla is not the "true" Milla the second you get her, given that you acquire her in one of the fractured dimensions.
I recognized that. I'm just not far enough through the game to know if what I was originally told is true or not. Either way, even if it is a new character I found the submissive/waifu type characterization to be a bit disappointing.
I haven't gotten the whole way through ToX2 yet, but while I think they were aiming to have the protagonist of the game be a silent protagonist/player stand-in character, it comes off more as someone with difficulty socializing, participating in normal social discourse, and even possibly someone with a spectrum disorder depending on the particular scene. This even gets lampshaded in a few of the victory quotes (Rowan + Ludger for example). I've found the characterization of the other party members to be pretty good, although there's some hints at character type trends I find a bit disappointing with Mila's character.
I'm around chapter 9/10 in the story, and there's a bit of a whiff of 'waifu' about how they've characterized Mila in this game. While it appears this may be a different person entirely than the Mila we saw in the previous game (please don't spoil things whichever way it turns out to be), I found it disappointing to disempower what was a very strong female character who did not need to be empowered through the role of a man).
I'm pretty sure
the game explicitly tells you that Milla is not the "true" Milla the second you get her, given that you acquire her in one of the fractured dimensions.
I recognized that. I'm just not far enough through the game to know if what I was originally told is true or not. Either way, even if it is a new character I found the submissive/waifu type characterization to be a bit disappointing.
Yeah... I don't think she was meant to be a submissive waifu type. Yes, when the party meets her, she's in an abusive relationship with Fractured Muzet, but the game clearly denotes said relationship as harmful. Once pulled out of that dimension, she has a mind of her own and isn't shy about expressing her opinions. Yes, she's a bit lost and questions a lot of things about herself... because she was ripped out of her very reality. She's still portrayed as courageous and kind, just more human and less self-confident than Prime Milla. I sure don't remember her needing or wanting a man to empower her. Honestly, (Prime) Muzet is a far more questionable portrayal of femininity than Milla, though I'm pretty sure that's mostly because she's totally cuckoo nutzoid.
Want to find me on a gaming service? I'm SwashbucklerXX everywhere.
I should probably mention that I play these games with an english teacher who specializes in literary analysis and critiques and who likes to use Freudian analysis to examine the story and characterizations within the games (he loves what the authors do, or sometimes do with Elize). We're probably picking up all sorts of little subtleties that the writers may not be aware they put into the games, and possibly jumping at some shadows. Still, it makes for a fun time, and more enjoyable than some other ways we could be throwing peanuts at the TV screen while playing these games.
One of the interesting things to look at with Elize, is how Teepo alternates between speaking as her id and her super-ego (or subconscious to sum those two up). Most of the time, he plays the role of her id, but on occasion, normally for dramatic effect, his role is reversed to that of the super-ego, while Elize speaks as the id. This allows Elize to communicate with her subconscious directly, and will potentially make her one of the best mentally balanced characters in the game. From one perspective, she is basically the embodiment of the ubermensch.
It's all pretty shallow, superficial stuff, but fun to throw the ideas out there. We also were both disappointed by the writers backing off the lesbian overtones/undertones of Rita and Estelle's relationship as presented in Tales of Vesperia. Seriously, Yuri is not Estelle's romantic interest whatsoever until she confesses out of the blue. Most of the game he is treated as the big-brotherly type character to Estelle's younger sister role in the story.
Yeah, I always thought Judith and Yuri were a much better match for each other. They get each other in a way that the other party members don't, and there seemed to be a spark between them that was completely absent between him and Estelle.
Elize and Teepo together make for one of the most interesting characters in the series, I agree. It was neat to see Teepo sound more like a teenager's subconscious than a little girl's in Xillia 2, as well. They did such a great job on the returning characters in the game that it's a shame they didn't have more importance in the main story.
Want to find me on a gaming service? I'm SwashbucklerXX everywhere.
I agree on Yuri + Judith and it was disappointing they didn't take the opportunity to explore a more mature relationship between adults instead of the usual fairy tale story between the protagonist and the princess.
On Elize + Teepo, some of the best scenes come when it's really obvious that Elize is taking conscious control over Teepo to say something, or even on occassion, switch places. A bit creepy, but also pretty cool.
0
Options
IceBurnerIt's cold and there are penguins.Registered Userregular
Been playing Tales games since I snapped the plastic tabs out of my SNES to play Phantasia. Sadly, through carelessness I lost my furthest saves for it and later, Destiny, so I haven't finished them. I missed out on Eternia, and didn't get to finish Symphonia, as I was just borrowing it.
The first Tales game I finished was Abyss, and the next, Xillia. Thoroughly enjoyed both. I've just gotten started with Graces F and its interesting to be able to see how it's an in-between step with its presentation and gameplay. I feel like it's no exaggeration that Asbel is denser than a sack of lead anvils. The gameplay will keep me going, though, and I have some gameplay questions: what do you recommend as an approach to leveling titles? Also, does the main bonus effect (the one which doubles when mastered) only work when equipped?
Lastly, how does one make gald? There's lots of dualizing to do but the costs outpace my funding quickly.
After this I have Symphonia Chronicles waiting for me, but I was thinking of picking up one more before Zestria falls next year. Is Legendia well-regarded, or should I look to Xilia 2?
Honestly, I feel Xillia is a step backwards from Graces F in systems, but yes Asbel is easily the single most block-headed Tales protagonist, and that's saying something. Both games have more interesting combat styles than previous titles - Pascal remains a delightful inversion of the standard mage in particular.
Vesperia is good and has easily the least-dumb Tales protagonist (at least of the ones I've played).
Been playing Tales games since I snapped the plastic tabs out of my SNES to play Phantasia. Sadly, through carelessness I lost my furthest saves for it and later, Destiny, so I haven't finished them. I missed out on Eternia, and didn't get to finish Symphonia, as I was just borrowing it.
The first Tales game I finished was Abyss, and the next, Xillia. Thoroughly enjoyed both. I've just gotten started with Graces F and its interesting to be able to see how it's an in-between step with its presentation and gameplay. I feel like it's no exaggeration that Asbel is denser than a sack of lead anvils. The gameplay will keep me going, though, and I have some gameplay questions: what do you recommend as an approach to leveling titles? Also, does the main bonus effect (the one which doubles when mastered) only work when equipped?
Lastly, how does one make gald? There's lots of dualizing to do but the costs outpace my funding quickly.
After this I have Symphonia Chronicles waiting for me, but I was thinking of picking up one more before Zestria falls next year. Is Legendia well-regarded, or should I look to Xilia 2?
Tales of Graces F:
1) Do not master titles, as mastery only counts while equipped. Get 5 stars and then move on to the next.
2) You make gald by dualizing monster drops into items you can sell. If the item's icon has a swirly G, its only purpose in life is to give you LOTS OF MONEY (and occasionally dualize with other things, but don't worry as its not a huge deal).
Tales of Legendia:
Not well regarded. Some people argue it is an underrated gem, but most would agree that what good things were in the game were mostly butchered in a poorly handled localization. Skip it, play Abyss, Vesperia or Xillia 2 instead.
Been playing Tales games since I snapped the plastic tabs out of my SNES to play Phantasia. Sadly, through carelessness I lost my furthest saves for it and later, Destiny, so I haven't finished them. I missed out on Eternia, and didn't get to finish Symphonia, as I was just borrowing it.
The first Tales game I finished was Abyss, and the next, Xillia. Thoroughly enjoyed both. I've just gotten started with Graces F and its interesting to be able to see how it's an in-between step with its presentation and gameplay. I feel like it's no exaggeration that Asbel is denser than a sack of lead anvils. The gameplay will keep me going, though, and I have some gameplay questions: what do you recommend as an approach to leveling titles? Also, does the main bonus effect (the one which doubles when mastered) only work when equipped?
Lastly, how does one make gald? There's lots of dualizing to do but the costs outpace my funding quickly.
After this I have Symphonia Chronicles waiting for me, but I was thinking of picking up one more before Zestria falls next year. Is Legendia well-regarded, or should I look to Xilia 2?
Xillia 2 is surprisingly great, so definitely get that one. If you have access to Vesperia at all you should play that one too.
Honestly, I feel Xillia is a step backwards from Graces F in systems, but yes Asbel is easily the single most block-headed Tales protagonist, and that's saying something. Both games have more interesting combat styles than previous titles - Pascal remains a delightful inversion of the standard mage in particular.
Vesperia is good and has easily the least-dumb Tales protagonist (at least of the ones I've played).
I don't quite like Graces' combat because bosses don't have enough HP and a lot of the boss fights just boil down to a DPS zerg. Everything else was rather fine. Just, up HP, get rid of that stupid reset the arles meter for boss fights and I'll be OK with it.
Xillia I'm finding is just too raw with its linking system. It effectively halves your party size when you link up and it's even more TP hungry than previous games.
DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
edited October 2014
Xillia 2 is a lot better with Linking in that you can set your party member to be independent so they don't lose their rhythm.
As for Legendia, I know overall people don't like it and it isn't in my top fav Tales by any means but I don't hate it as much as some. I would say the only thing that really bothered me was how piss-weak magic is in that game.
Magic as a whole was relatively weak outside of a few games by the 'Team Destiny' lot. ToD2 in particular had absolute cannons of magic users and ToE had really nasty casters as well since their casting speeds really got up there. Rita was the first mage IMHO that really felt powerful in her own right in the 3D LMBS games partially because of feeding her overlimits and also because she had spell combos so there wasn't too big downtimes between her casts. In most of the other games, magic users were there to support the melee monsters who did the real damage either it be staggering with long execution spells or breaking guards since magic is typically unblockable. Yes, even the infamous 'Jade the Necromancer' fell behind the frontliner fighters once you started getting Sunlight chambers and the melee started self-supplying their FoF artes.
There's a rather old video floating around comparing the various incarnations of Indignation through the various Tales games. Legendia is... a little floating orb and a tiny spark of lightning... Very sad.
On the topic of Indignation, I actually find it a little funny how it has been elevated to be the top level Lightning type spell if not hi-ougi level. In Tales of Phantasia, even though that's how it got its reputation as being a bad ass spell, it was a midlevel spell. It got its time to shine in the first Dhaos fight simply because it was a bit of a set piece fight but on the second and subsequent fights it was rather weak and you've moved onto bigger spells such as Spark Wave and the like.
On the topic of Indignation, I actually find it a little funny how it has been elevated to be the top level Lightning type spell if not hi-ougi level. In Tales of Phantasia, even though that's how it got its reputation as being a bad ass spell, it was a midlevel spell. It got its time to shine in the first Dhaos fight simply because it was a bit of a set piece fight but on the second and subsequent fights it was rather weak and you've moved onto bigger spells such as Spark Wave and the like.
Magic as a whole was relatively weak outside of a few games by the 'Team Destiny' lot. ToD2 in particular had absolute cannons of magic users and ToE had really nasty casters as well since their casting speeds really got up there. Rita was the first mage IMHO that really felt powerful in her own right in the 3D LMBS games partially because of feeding her overlimits and also because she had spell combos so there wasn't too big downtimes between her casts. In most of the other games, magic users were there to support the melee monsters who did the real damage either it be staggering with long execution spells or breaking guards since magic is typically unblockable. Yes, even the infamous 'Jade the Necromancer' fell behind the frontliner fighters once you started getting Sunlight chambers and the melee started self-supplying their FoF artes.
Muzet's magic felt pretty powerful when I've used it so far, and in Tales of Xillia, Rowen totally wrecked things though mostly with spell tuning and Time Stop on demand.
0
Options
IceBurnerIt's cold and there are penguins.Registered Userregular
edited October 2014
Why does every human boss in Graces F just smash right through your guard with regular attacks? What the hell am I doing wrong that I'm just a ragdoll with no ability to evade or guard, getting stunlocked for ages?
Edit: Apparently it's the ACC/EVA stats, which the game does not explain. They are the two most important stats in the game because the relationship between an enemy's ACC vs your EVA (and vice versa) determine whether or not you can hutstun them, and for how long, plus how badly they can hitstun you, if at all. It's so great how this crucial distinction from other Tales games went entirely unexplained by the game or manual.
Posts
There is admittedly more room for non-main-characters to have personality.
Yuri is a high point for them, even if he's still cliche he's at least interesting and a far more mature one (the Flynn dynamic is nice, if also a cliche).
I clearly missed Jude's serial killer side, but I couldn't bring myself to replay Xillia on his route (I don't regret starting Milla, because the costume for her route is awesome)... which is sad, since I've replayed Symphonia like 5 times and Vesperia a few.
It's too bad Graces only lets you turn party members into each other in battle.
3DS: 0473-8507-2652
Switch: SW-5185-4991-5118
PSN: AbEntropy
3DS: 0473-8507-2652
Switch: SW-5185-4991-5118
PSN: AbEntropy
The joke re: Jude's serial killer side, is that at the beginning of the game, he breaks into a restricted area and when the guard tells him that he shouldn't be here, please leave immediately, Jude responds by entering combat and killing the guard, and then proceeding through the dungeon and killing all the other guards (maybe he was disabling the guards, but it certainly looks likes kills based on how combat is normally treated as being resolved). Mostly it's just a joke based around the dis-congruity between storytelling and game mechanics.
Also, let's guess how many times Dezel will betray the party!
3DS: 1607-3034-6970
3DS: 1607-3034-6970
I'm thinking the combat system is going to feel like a fusion of ToD2 and ToG... and let me say that I'm all for throwing out the TP system
In that case...5 times?
Or is this like The Price Is Right? 1 time, Bob!
The world is my backlog.
I'm pretty sure
Yea I'm not sure how you could have this character and not know what was going on unless you were playing with the game muted for a few hours...
Unrelated:
I hope this new one doesn't lock as much stuff behind the post game. Because god damn like half the weapons in ToX2 are locked away behind the post-game. I will never understand that game design decision and Tales seems to be getting worse and worse about it.
3DS: 1607-3034-6970
What game are you playing?
I'm so confused right now...
Chapter 13-14ish Spoilers:
It's all pretty shallow, superficial stuff, but fun to throw the ideas out there. We also were both disappointed by the writers backing off the lesbian overtones/undertones of Rita and Estelle's relationship as presented in Tales of Vesperia. Seriously, Yuri is not Estelle's romantic interest whatsoever until she confesses out of the blue. Most of the game he is treated as the big-brotherly type character to Estelle's younger sister role in the story.
Elize and Teepo together make for one of the most interesting characters in the series, I agree. It was neat to see Teepo sound more like a teenager's subconscious than a little girl's in Xillia 2, as well. They did such a great job on the returning characters in the game that it's a shame they didn't have more importance in the main story.
On Elize + Teepo, some of the best scenes come when it's really obvious that Elize is taking conscious control over Teepo to say something, or even on occassion, switch places. A bit creepy, but also pretty cool.
The first Tales game I finished was Abyss, and the next, Xillia. Thoroughly enjoyed both. I've just gotten started with Graces F and its interesting to be able to see how it's an in-between step with its presentation and gameplay. I feel like it's no exaggeration that Asbel is denser than a sack of lead anvils. The gameplay will keep me going, though, and I have some gameplay questions: what do you recommend as an approach to leveling titles? Also, does the main bonus effect (the one which doubles when mastered) only work when equipped?
Lastly, how does one make gald? There's lots of dualizing to do but the costs outpace my funding quickly.
After this I have Symphonia Chronicles waiting for me, but I was thinking of picking up one more before Zestria falls next year. Is Legendia well-regarded, or should I look to Xilia 2?
PSN: theIceBurner, IceBurnerEU, IceBurner-JP | X-Link Kai: TheIceBurner
Dragon's Dogma: 192 Warrior Linty | 80 Strider Alicia | 32 Mage Terra
Vesperia is good and has easily the least-dumb Tales protagonist (at least of the ones I've played).
3DS: 0473-8507-2652
Switch: SW-5185-4991-5118
PSN: AbEntropy
As far as Asbel, something something Richard is just tired.
PSN: BrightWing13 FFX|V:ARR Bright Asuna
3DS: 0473-8507-2652
Switch: SW-5185-4991-5118
PSN: AbEntropy
Tales of Graces F:
1) Do not master titles, as mastery only counts while equipped. Get 5 stars and then move on to the next.
2) You make gald by dualizing monster drops into items you can sell. If the item's icon has a swirly G, its only purpose in life is to give you LOTS OF MONEY (and occasionally dualize with other things, but don't worry as its not a huge deal).
Tales of Legendia:
Not well regarded. Some people argue it is an underrated gem, but most would agree that what good things were in the game were mostly butchered in a poorly handled localization. Skip it, play Abyss, Vesperia or Xillia 2 instead.
Let's Plays of Japanese Games
Xillia 2 is surprisingly great, so definitely get that one. If you have access to Vesperia at all you should play that one too.
I don't quite like Graces' combat because bosses don't have enough HP and a lot of the boss fights just boil down to a DPS zerg. Everything else was rather fine. Just, up HP, get rid of that stupid reset the arles meter for boss fights and I'll be OK with it.
Xillia I'm finding is just too raw with its linking system. It effectively halves your party size when you link up and it's even more TP hungry than previous games.
As for Legendia, I know overall people don't like it and it isn't in my top fav Tales by any means but I don't hate it as much as some. I would say the only thing that really bothered me was how piss-weak magic is in that game.
I thought it was kind of weak in the crowd control department too.
Yeah, that's what I meant.
That cast time...for that.
Who cares when it gets us shit like this:
PSN: BrightWing13 FFX|V:ARR Bright Asuna
Muzet's magic felt pretty powerful when I've used it so far, and in Tales of Xillia, Rowen totally wrecked things though mostly with spell tuning and Time Stop on demand.
Edit: Apparently it's the ACC/EVA stats, which the game does not explain. They are the two most important stats in the game because the relationship between an enemy's ACC vs your EVA (and vice versa) determine whether or not you can hutstun them, and for how long, plus how badly they can hitstun you, if at all. It's so great how this crucial distinction from other Tales games went entirely unexplained by the game or manual.
Off to dualize ridiculous ACC/EVA stuff.
PSN: theIceBurner, IceBurnerEU, IceBurner-JP | X-Link Kai: TheIceBurner
Dragon's Dogma: 192 Warrior Linty | 80 Strider Alicia | 32 Mage Terra
Switch (JeffConser): SW-3353-5433-5137 Wii U: Skeldare - 3DS: 1848-1663-9345
PM Me if you add me!