[PA Comic] Monday, January 27, 2014 - Manslayer’s Doctrine

Geth

Manslayer’s Doctrine
http://penny-arcade.com/comic/2014/01/27

Aegeri

For context on this there has been a really direct accusation from one of the developers of Assassin's Creed that they stole code for this game.

He stated:

Seriously, can someone tell me how Assassin’s Creed 2 code and assets are in this Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor game?

Believe me, he wasn't trying to be funny either as subsequent tweets reiterated that he really does feel that his code is in there. Monolith responded effectively by saying (I am paraphrasing slightly) "Assassin's Creed was never in our minds" but honestly, that's a bit of a load of horse shit if you've seen the gameplay they have put out as it has some very AC2 and Batman like inspirations in there to be a coincidence.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFgvvgGEpkQ

I doubt anyone stole any code, but to claim that AC2 wasn't an inspiration while mimicking it so closely is immensely difficult for me to believe.

Fiendishrabbit

I have no idea how to feel about Shadow of Mordor.
On one hand. The mechanics look pretty cool and interesting.
On the other hand it's a giant FU to Middle-Earth lore, and that's a lot of lore that it's flipping the bird towards.

Half-wraith turning his wraith powers against Sauron. W...T...F?

Zilla360

Aegeri wrote: »

Believe me, he wasn't trying to be funny either as subsequent tweets reiterated that he really does feel that his code is in there. Monolith responded effectively by saying (I am paraphrasing slightly) "Assassin's Creed was never in our minds" but honestly, that's a bit of a load of horse shit if you've seen the gameplay they have put out as it has some very AC2 and Batman like inspirations in there to be a coincidence.

I doubt anyone stole any code, but to claim that AC2 wasn't an inspiration while mimicking it so closely is immensely difficult for me to believe.

Yeah. I just watched that video, and the models for the ropes linking buildings together look exactly like in AC:2.

There has to be some sort of code/asset sharing going on between Monolith and Ubisoft that they haven't talked about yet, even some of the traversal animations look identical to me.

Henroid

Claiming AC2 code is in there is a pretty serious allegation, but it also reeks of extreme crybaby bullshit just sounds like fishing for something to complain about.

Is it a lot like AC2? I guess. Does that take away from it being fucking badass? NOPE.

God I wanna play this game a lot. I'm so glad I'm not married to Middle-Earth continuity / lore so that whatever wrong-doing is going on just flies over my head. I wanna wraith some motherfuckers and I'm gonna.

Henroid

Another thing about coding for video games before I go to bed.

Do we seriously have to reinvent the wheel for each game made? At some point it has to be acceptable for code to just transfer over from game to game if that code is the most optimal way to get shit done. I mean, as long as the legality / agreements are in order from one company to the next.

Zython

My question is: How does he suppose they got their hands on the code? Last I checked, AC2 wasn't open source.

Quid

Henroid wrote: »

Another thing about coding for video games before I go to bed.

Do we seriously have to reinvent the wheel for each game made? At some point it has to be acceptable for code to just transfer over from game to game if that code is the most optimal way to get shit done. I mean, as long as the legality / agreements are in order from one company to the next.

Presumably Mr. Randall would not be complaining if there had been an agreement.

That said while Shadow seems to add some new additions the basic game play and character movement appears to be virtually identical. It could very well be that they didn't use code from AC but they sure as Hell pulled a ton of inspiration from it.

Aegeri

Plus bear in mind they have claimed they weren't even thinking about AC2 and when you compare them, that's awfully hard to actually believe.

Tube

Henroid wrote: »

At some point it has to be acceptable for code to just transfer over from game to game if that code is the most optimal way to get shit done. I mean, as long as the legality / agreements are in order from one company to the next.

It is acceptable if the legality and agreements are in order. That's what "legality" means.

Trace

Character movement looks nothing at all like Ezio. No not even the climbing.

Also not all Wraiths in Middle-Earth were Ringwraiths.

Dark Raven X

Not all Wraiths are Ringwraiths, but all Wraiths are dead things, a dark spirit type dealie summoned by a necromancer. To be "half Wraith" is rather goofy.

Trace

Dark Raven X wrote: »

Not all Wraiths are Ringwraiths, but all Wraiths are dead things, a dark spirit type dealie summoned by a necromancer. To be "half Wraith" is rather goofy.

Half wraith is a silly term.

They probably should've just said possessed.

Or that he was stabbed with a morgul blade.

Delzhand

There's no "evil" a hack writer can't eventually make a half-blood anti-hero out of.

YoungFrey

At least with a Lord of the Rings themed clone of Assassin's Creed I won't have to worry about being forced to play a lame schlub from time to time. So that's a big step in the right direction.

Skull2185

I'm pretty stoked for Assassin's Creed: Middle Earth.

I just hope that it doesn't come out that Monolith really did do something dumb like steal code or whatever that prevents the game from releasing.

Finnish_Line

Not the best nose in this one.

Zomro

To me, it seems like a very silly criticism. Games, like all other forms of entertsinment, draw inspiration from others. The AC series is built upon other stealth / action games like Tenchu.

Lucascraft

The title of the comic is the best part.

Enlong

YoungFrey wrote: »

At least with a Lord of the Rings themed clone of Assassin's Creed I won't have to worry about being forced to play a lame schlub from time to time. So that's a big step in the right direction.

Hey!

I, for one, enjoyed the Connor segments in ACIII.

joshofalltrades

All I can say is that "half-wraith" sounds a lot like something directly from Song of the Sorcelator.

Trace

Half-Wraith sounds like a bad choice of words then an actual plot thing.

The simplest way to explain the "why" without giving away any possible spoilers in the story.

I mean for all we know Sauron could be controlling Talion just as Talion controlled that Orc to make him attempt an assassination and be using Talion to clear his army of orcs that think too much or aren't totally loyal or something.

Rhesus Positive

Trace wrote: »

Half-Wraith sounds like a bad choice of words then an actual plot thing.

The simplest way to explain the "why" without giving away any possible spoilers in the story.

I mean for all we know Sauron could be controlling Talion just as Talion controlled that Orc to make him attempt an assassination and be using Talion to clear his army of orcs that think too much or aren't totally loyal or something.

That makes it sound a bit like The Force Unleashed.

joshofalltrades

Rhesus Positive wrote: »

Trace wrote: »

Half-Wraith sounds like a bad choice of words then an actual plot thing.

The simplest way to explain the "why" without giving away any possible spoilers in the story.

I mean for all we know Sauron could be controlling Talion just as Talion controlled that Orc to make him attempt an assassination and be using Talion to clear his army of orcs that think too much or aren't totally loyal or something.

That makes it sound a bit like The Force Unleashed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmJ_CKk_WhA

abotkin

YoungFrey wrote: »

At least with a Lord of the Rings themed clone of Assassin's Creed I won't have to worry about being forced to play a lame schlub from time to time. So that's a big step in the right direction.

Secret twist confirmed: You actually play 50% of the game as Peter Jackson; the Talion stuff is Jackson brainstorming a plot for his next movie in Middle Earth after he finishes up with the Hobbit.

Skull2185

joshofalltrades wrote: »

All I can say is that "half-wraith" sounds a lot like something directly from Song of the Sorcelator.

Grimm Shado did immediately come to mind when I saw "half-wraith"

I will certainly be ready to take it to the limit when I get my hands on this game.

joshofalltrades

Skull2185 wrote: »

joshofalltrades wrote: »

All I can say is that "half-wraith" sounds a lot like something directly from Song of the Sorcelator.

Grimm Shado did immediately come to mind when I saw "half-wraith"

I will certainly be ready to take it to the limit when I get my hands on this game.

You are going to rue that purchase, and rue it hard.

roflstomp

I hope it's not a clone of AC. I would flip a table if the orcs were as fast and agile as you, could climb and run and jump as acrobatically as you, and stay on you so you could never ever ever ever break line of sight. Stupid Red Coats...

joshofalltrades

roflstomp wrote: »

I hope it's not a clone of AC. I would flip a table if the orcs were as fast and agile as you, could climb and run and jump as acrobatically as you, and stay on you so you could never ever ever ever break line of sight. Stupid Red Coats...

Getting mobbed by hobbits begging you for pipe weed, food and ale around every corner and getting punished when you stab them because they're not just annoying but actively preventing you from accomplishing things

TychoCelchuuu

Before everyone jumps all over this dude who said "this looks like my code," he didn't mean it as an accusation or an insult or anything. He said that maybe they licensed the AC engine, and wrote "For the record though, that Middle-earth game looks pretty damn awesome. And I love AC2 so it's kind of a double win."

Rhesus Positive

joshofalltrades wrote: »

roflstomp wrote: »

I hope it's not a clone of AC. I would flip a table if the orcs were as fast and agile as you, could climb and run and jump as acrobatically as you, and stay on you so you could never ever ever ever break line of sight. Stupid Red Coats...

Getting mobbed by hobbits begging you for pipe weed, food and ale around every corner and getting punished when you stab them because they're not just annoying but actively preventing you from accomplishing things

And then it zooms out and it's revealed that you're only influencing the main character's actions through a Palantir.

Smrtnik

It was his sled all along

darleysam

TychoCelchuuu wrote: »

Before everyone jumps all over this dude who said "this looks like my code," he didn't mean it as an accusation or an insult or anything. He said that maybe they licensed the AC engine, and wrote "For the record though, that Middle-earth game looks pretty damn awesome. And I love AC2 so it's kind of a double win."

Yeah, this is the part that is naturally getting missed out of all the accounts. Because games media.

Lucascraft

He also said that all he wants is just a coding credit if they do indeed use some of the code he wrote. That's not really an unreasonable request.

SiliconStew

The question I have is why would de Plater say, when asked about the similarities, "We didn't think much about [Assissin's Creed games] at all. We just wanted to do a third-person, open-world action adventure. And then now, just by the time you have stealth and melee combat and you're hunting guys behind enemy lines, the comparisons maybe come out at that point. It definitely wasn't something we were consciously going for."? If they licensed the engine, why wouldn't he just say the similarities exist because both games use the same engine. Then he can lead right into discussing the differences that sets his game apart. It's an odd denial if they are using the AC engine, and from that video I'm pretty certain they are.

Trace

Because it might be possible they aren't using the AC engine or any coding from the AC games?

Also

The game is being written by Christian Cantamessa, who was a lead-writer and lead-designer on Rockstar San Diego's Red Dead Redemption.

Henroid

Tube wrote: »

Henroid wrote: »

At some point it has to be acceptable for code to just transfer over from game to game if that code is the most optimal way to get shit done. I mean, as long as the legality / agreements are in order from one company to the next.

It is acceptable if the legality and agreements are in order. That's what "legality" means.

I know but I meant on the part of enthusiasts like posters to video game message boards. I'm fine with it, but some people are outraged by it somehow I guess.

halkun

Maybe I'm not getting the whole story, but I see engines sub-licensed by the companies all the time. So they decided to shave a few bucks...

Albino Bunny

Game looks super slick and well presented.

Just curious how the systems in the game are going to work. I mean, in my average AC or Batman combat sequence there's not really survivors to let the nemisis thing occur.

YoungFrey

It is interesting to me that people are generally fine with engine licensing, but if the animation or art is reused it is terrible. I assume it's because art and animation are things everyone can at least think is straightforward. But engine programming is totally opaque.

Albino Bunny

Probably because for the most part a games engine doesn't have a big bearing on it for the user. You can make two unreal shooters look and play totally different even if they both have a few of the same engine quirks.

If you liscence art/animation things might get to be a bit samey (if you're a Bioware fan it's great fun to track all the animations in their catalogue being re-used at various points in their history).