Well, they probably would've hand drawn the streams rather than scratching since they could've controlled the output frame to frame.
But think of any old film you might have seen and any bizarre imperfections that you might've noticed are usually a result of the negative being damaged in some way. As I understand it, the technique for doing it for a specific outcome is harder than would be worthwhile. So yeah, they likely would've simply hand drawn what they wanted if cell overlay wasn't a thing.
One thing is for certain, no matter how ugly the devil dog looked running around, it was nowhere near as bad as the rancor in RotJ. Even in the newer, 'cleaned' up editions it still looks like shit. At least the devil dog is supposed to be otherworldly.
Scratching negatives was done for things like lightning back in like the silent era.
0
NocrenLt Futz, Back in ActionNorth CarolinaRegistered Userregular
Probably should go in one of the "interesting" threads but I did get to see the first animated film. Ever.
It was done by scratching blank celluloid and having it sync up to some music.
Can someone who's not on a phone find that Mythbusters clip I mentioned last page? Wanna see if anyone else gets the "proton stream" vibe I got from it.
Probably should go in one of the "interesting" threads but I did get to see the first animated film. Ever.
It was done by scratching blank celluloid and having it sync up to some music.
Can someone who's not on a phone find that Mythbusters clip I mentioned last page? Wanna see if anyone else gets the "proton stream" vibe I got from it.
Probably should go in one of the "interesting" threads but I did get to see the first animated film. Ever.
It was done by scratching blank celluloid and having it sync up to some music.
Can someone who's not on a phone find that Mythbusters clip I mentioned last page? Wanna see if anyone else gets the "proton stream" vibe I got from it.
Optical printers were pretty amazing tools for their time.
I watched this the other day and was really surprised how well a lot of the effects held up. They all still worked, and a lot of it still looks good. The one thing that looks horrible now, and I wonder how it looked at the time, is when the cgi dog is chasing Rick Morranis. The puppets are fine, but the cgi parts with the chase look really bad now.
That's not cgi, that's stop-motion. Stop-motion always looked terrible, that's not a product of age. We just had to deal with it, how else are you going to get terror dogs running amok in New York?
Is it stop motion? I can't find the scene on youtube, it looks animated. I'm not talking about this scene, where I think everything still looks fine today http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i13POQtbzjo
but the scene right after where he's being chased. I thought it was one of the first forms of CGI. You have slimer, who looks good in his scenes, the demon dog was just jarring chasing him around. It wasn't so much that that part looked bad I guess, I think I was more surprised with how well everything else looked and how bad the demon running looked.
It was the same problem the rancor had. Generally all stop-motion has this problem, especially when it's spliced into live-action footage.
Everything else looked 'fine' because it was a puppet. It had weight. It could 'interact' with the actors. But stop motion can only interact with itself. You don't notice it with the AT-ATs in ESB because they're either too large to put in scale with humans or they're essentially on their own. Plus, they're machines so moving mechanically isn't as noticeable as something organic.
Like the devil dog or rancor. When the devil dog runs around the city, it looks like it's floating because there was no point of reference whilst animating it compared to Central Park West. So they animated it like a dog running around. It might've helped if they'd had a scale model of CPW.
I blame the stop-motion dog quality on budget/time constraints, as the puppeteer work and honestly most of the stop-motion in the rest of the film is of much higher quality. Those few seconds were probably on the end of the list to complete, and so they didn't have as much time as they would have liked.
physi_marcPositron TrackerIn a nutshellRegistered Userregular
The ghosts and other effects in Ghostbusters are a testament to the greatness of practical visual effects. They have a realness and physicality to them that CGI still sorely lacks, in my opinion.
As an example, compare the proton streams to, say, the electricity of Electro in the The Amazing Spider-Man 2 trailers. The latter looks like a bad video game; the former still looks awesome.
I really, really wish more practical visual effects were used nowadays.
The ghosts and other effects in Ghostbusters are a testament to the greatness of practical visual effects. They have a realness and physicality to them that CGI still sorely lacks, in my opinion.
I think practical effects get over-looked a lot these days because it's just so easy to decide to CG something. You can achieve a lot of amazing things that simply weren't possible to do before (the super hero movies of the 80s and 90s vs the current Marvel universe) but I think a lot of better result and craftsmanship of older techniques gets overlooked. I'm reminded of a review of Anaconda (or some other giant snake movie) that drew attention to the fact that the giant one tonne snake never broke or shook branches as it was whipping through the trees, and even in tight shots where a puppet could've worked, they used CG, and you had actors' eyes not quite aligning with what was supposedly in front of them.
Anybody know if LEGO is planning to delete the kit any time soon? The Back to the Future kit was only out for barely a year and they stopped making it and I missed out on not paying way too much to get it. I don't want to miss out on this at $50 and I need to budget my money for it.
Anyone else not feeling the stripes? Both on the boots and the flight suits--eh, I don't know. Sometimes less is more.
The converted ambulance looks excellent though. As do the proton packs, from what I can see.
I sort-of agree, but they make sense from an industrial design standpoint: you'd want reflectors on suits that you're wearing in mostly dark spaces, especially if you're waving around something like a proton pack wand.
I'm sure the new Ecto will come to grow on me, but I'm already missing Ecto-1. I mean, I get it; we can't just keep driving around the same old car. But I love that old car.
The Ender on
With Love and Courage
0
Librarian's ghostLibrarian, Ghostbuster, and TimSporkRegistered Userregular
I watched this the other day and was really surprised how well a lot of the effects held up. They all still worked, and a lot of it still looks good. The one thing that looks horrible now, and I wonder how it looked at the time, is when the cgi dog is chasing Rick Morranis. The puppets are fine, but the cgi parts with the chase look really bad now.
That's not cgi, that's stop-motion. Stop-motion always looked terrible, that's not a product of age. We just had to deal with it, how else are you going to get terror dogs running amok in New York?
I watched this the other day and was really surprised how well a lot of the effects held up. They all still worked, and a lot of it still looks good. The one thing that looks horrible now, and I wonder how it looked at the time, is when the cgi dog is chasing Rick Morranis. The puppets are fine, but the cgi parts with the chase look really bad now.
That's not cgi, that's stop-motion. Stop-motion always looked terrible, that's not a product of age. We just had to deal with it, how else are you going to get terror dogs running amok in New York?
I'm fairly certain that AT-AT animation is technically go-motion, which is stop motion with motion blurs added to make it look less like stop motion.
That said, stop motion or go motion that's done well is awesome. When done poorly, it's substantially less awesome to watch.
I watched this the other day and was really surprised how well a lot of the effects held up. They all still worked, and a lot of it still looks good. The one thing that looks horrible now, and I wonder how it looked at the time, is when the cgi dog is chasing Rick Morranis. The puppets are fine, but the cgi parts with the chase look really bad now.
That's not cgi, that's stop-motion. Stop-motion always looked terrible, that's not a product of age. We just had to deal with it, how else are you going to get terror dogs running amok in New York?
You have to build to-scale sets to get that look for stop-motion, though. The AT-ATs still hold up and look like they have real weight because they were on a real miniatures display rather than being super imposed onto a location.
I watched this the other day and was really surprised how well a lot of the effects held up. They all still worked, and a lot of it still looks good. The one thing that looks horrible now, and I wonder how it looked at the time, is when the cgi dog is chasing Rick Morranis. The puppets are fine, but the cgi parts with the chase look really bad now.
That's not cgi, that's stop-motion. Stop-motion always looked terrible, that's not a product of age. We just had to deal with it, how else are you going to get terror dogs running amok in New York?
You have to build to-scale sets to get that look for stop-motion, though. The AT-ATs still hold up and look like they have real weight because they were on a real miniatures display rather than being super imposed onto a location.
Yeah, it's the stop-motion demon-dog being superimposed into the camera shot footage that doesn't hold up. stop-motion is still a technique that can produce fantastic looking effects and even full movies.
Boy that jelly bean video seems like a lot of work.
The results are impressive, but when I think about how much damn time that must've taken, I wonder if it was truly worth it.
Yeah, that's the other problem with stop motion: the number of hours of filming, posing & editing required to produce each minute worth of animation.
I don't think any art form ever becomes obsolete, but stop motion certainly seems like a contender in an age where virtually anything you could accomplish with that technique can much more easily be accomplished with digital effect (or hybrid digital/practical effects).
Boy that jelly bean video seems like a lot of work.
The results are impressive, but when I think about how much damn time that must've taken, I wonder if it was truly worth it.
Yeah, that's the other problem with stop motion: the number of hours of filming, posing & editing required to produce each minute worth of animation.
I don't think any art form ever becomes obsolete, but stop motion certainly seems like a contender in an age where virtually anything you could accomplish with that technique can much more easily be accomplished with digital effect (or hybrid digital/practical effects).
The team that did Paranorman saved a lot of time by 3D printing the facial expressions on the characters. Like traditional hand drawn animation, technology has made stop motion far more accessible and time saving for the average person.
Posts
But think of any old film you might have seen and any bizarre imperfections that you might've noticed are usually a result of the negative being damaged in some way. As I understand it, the technique for doing it for a specific outcome is harder than would be worthwhile. So yeah, they likely would've simply hand drawn what they wanted if cell overlay wasn't a thing.
One thing is for certain, no matter how ugly the devil dog looked running around, it was nowhere near as bad as the rancor in RotJ. Even in the newer, 'cleaned' up editions it still looks like shit. At least the devil dog is supposed to be otherworldly.
It was done by scratching blank celluloid and having it sync up to some music.
Can someone who's not on a phone find that Mythbusters clip I mentioned last page? Wanna see if anyone else gets the "proton stream" vibe I got from it.
starts at the ~2min mark
Optical printers were pretty amazing tools for their time.
pretty sure it will now, accidentally added a \ that didn't belong.
Is it stop motion? I can't find the scene on youtube, it looks animated. I'm not talking about this scene, where I think everything still looks fine today
but the scene right after where he's being chased. I thought it was one of the first forms of CGI. You have slimer, who looks good in his scenes, the demon dog was just jarring chasing him around. It wasn't so much that that part looked bad I guess, I think I was more surprised with how well everything else looked and how bad the demon running looked.
Everything else looked 'fine' because it was a puppet. It had weight. It could 'interact' with the actors. But stop motion can only interact with itself. You don't notice it with the AT-ATs in ESB because they're either too large to put in scale with humans or they're essentially on their own. Plus, they're machines so moving mechanically isn't as noticeable as something organic.
Like the devil dog or rancor. When the devil dog runs around the city, it looks like it's floating because there was no point of reference whilst animating it compared to Central Park West. So they animated it like a dog running around. It might've helped if they'd had a scale model of CPW.
Sitting still - puppet
Moving - stop motion
All puppets and stop motion with some blur on the moving dog.
Unless your name is Ray Harryhausen.
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
As an example, compare the proton streams to, say, the electricity of Electro in the The Amazing Spider-Man 2 trailers. The latter looks like a bad video game; the former still looks awesome.
I really, really wish more practical visual effects were used nowadays.
Switch Friend Code: 3102-5341-0358
Nintendo Network ID: PhysiMarc
I think practical effects get over-looked a lot these days because it's just so easy to decide to CG something. You can achieve a lot of amazing things that simply weren't possible to do before (the super hero movies of the 80s and 90s vs the current Marvel universe) but I think a lot of better result and craftsmanship of older techniques gets overlooked. I'm reminded of a review of Anaconda (or some other giant snake movie) that drew attention to the fact that the giant one tonne snake never broke or shook branches as it was whipping through the trees, and even in tight shots where a puppet could've worked, they used CG, and you had actors' eyes not quite aligning with what was supposedly in front of them.
It came out early June, I believe. It's a pretty nice set, only real complaint is that you can't fit everyone inside with their proton packs.
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
I want that so bad.
Anybody know if LEGO is planning to delete the kit any time soon? The Back to the Future kit was only out for barely a year and they stopped making it and I missed out on not paying way too much to get it. I don't want to miss out on this at $50 and I need to budget my money for it.
I can't think of a more perfect way to do a new movie. I can't believe this hadn't been immediately thought of before.
I wish Ramis were still here for this, but oh well. It's going to be fantastic.
The converted ambulance looks excellent though. As do the proton packs, from what I can see.
I sort-of agree, but they make sense from an industrial design standpoint: you'd want reflectors on suits that you're wearing in mostly dark spaces, especially if you're waving around something like a proton pack wand.
I'm sure the new Ecto will come to grow on me, but I'm already missing Ecto-1. I mean, I get it; we can't just keep driving around the same old car. But I love that old car.
http://i.imgur.com/ciUf2TP.gif
http://i.imgur.com/Av0igWb.gif
The link is fan art? W'happen?
I'm fairly certain that AT-AT animation is technically go-motion, which is stop motion with motion blurs added to make it look less like stop motion.
That said, stop motion or go motion that's done well is awesome. When done poorly, it's substantially less awesome to watch.
You have to build to-scale sets to get that look for stop-motion, though. The AT-ATs still hold up and look like they have real weight because they were on a real miniatures display rather than being super imposed onto a location.
Yeah, it's the stop-motion demon-dog being superimposed into the camera shot footage that doesn't hold up. stop-motion is still a technique that can produce fantastic looking effects and even full movies.
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
The results are impressive, but when I think about how much damn time that must've taken, I wonder if it was truly worth it.
Yeah, that's the other problem with stop motion: the number of hours of filming, posing & editing required to produce each minute worth of animation.
I don't think any art form ever becomes obsolete, but stop motion certainly seems like a contender in an age where virtually anything you could accomplish with that technique can much more easily be accomplished with digital effect (or hybrid digital/practical effects).
The team that did Paranorman saved a lot of time by 3D printing the facial expressions on the characters. Like traditional hand drawn animation, technology has made stop motion far more accessible and time saving for the average person.