I don't know, maybe if the Venezualan opposition had tried to defeat Chavez at the ballot box rather than attempted coups then things would have been different.
That presupposes the country has a functioning democracy where the government doesn't abuse their authority to suppress political opposition.
Contemporary problems in Venezuela are not really affixed to it's government, which is one of the fundamental problems: better government does not magically make a highly developed black market & organized crime racket disappear. The current mess is probably insoluble; the deeply entrenched damage resulting from a nonsenical us vs them mentality stretching back to the Cold War, limiting Venezuela's role in the world to little more than a proxy party in an ideological war where neither side saw any room for compromise or shared territory.
In this case, they are affixed to its government because the way they do business is to sabotage every business run in the country (how do you think that national production was halted?) until they're the sole providers of everything, like Cuba. Right now the government is investing more money on anti-protest gadgets than on boosting national production, so a change of government wouldn't magically fix everything, but would mean a faster recovery for the country (because 1 is a higher number than -200). The government took control of most producers of milk and other products, and they bankrupted a while after that.
But there's some truth to what you said, because Venezuela is plagued by apathy, unfortunately. My brother told me that in 2004, he saw someone throw garbage on the street, and after they saw him startled, they just dismissed him by saying "oh, you reacted like that just because of me throwing garbage on the street? Big deal, I thought something else had happened." And it's still true today, you'd be amazed at how often I see people throwing garbage on the street.
Jesus. This is really odd to read in retrospect. It's like Ghosts of Futures Past.
The country is struggling back from a banking crisis that was five times the size of the savings and loan collapse in the United States, in terms of the percentage of gross national product. No sooner had Venezuela won plaudits for coming through the banking debacle, however, than it had to confront a scandal involving the system of severance payments for public employees, in which billions of dollars contributed to the system have disappeared.
That is one reason the Government has not concentrated on trimming the public sector, although Labor Minister Juan N. Carrido, and most analysts of Venezuela, agree the need is strong.
"The question of where you're going to get the money for severance payments is relevant only if you do the layoffs," said Fernando Egana, the Government spokesman. "Reduction of the public sector," he added pointedly, "is very much related to the growth of the private sector."
Although Mr. Caldera came into office denouncing the austerity measures that were imposed by Mr. Perez (partly to conform with directives from the International Monetary Fund), his own administration has been negotiating for a $3 billion loan from the I.M.F. since last year. Economists here say Venezuela does not need the money as much as it needs the credibility that such a loan would convey. The country has also been negotiating a second loan of undisclosed size to ease the social impact of any hardships imposed by an I.M.F. agreement.
As I said previously, I'm not about to defend previous governments, but at least we could find basic products in super markets and flee the country more easily back then. My best friend at the time moved to the US in 1994. The fact that these other people did bad things doesn't justify the current happenings.
I don't know, maybe if the Venezualan opposition had tried to defeat Chavez at the ballot box rather than attempted coups then things would have been different.
That presupposes the country has a functioning democracy where the government doesn't abuse their authority to suppress political opposition.
Contemporary problems in Venezuela are not really affixed to it's government, which is one of the fundamental problems: better government does not magically make a highly developed black market & organized crime racket disappear. The current mess is probably insoluble; the deeply entrenched damage resulting from a nonsenical us vs them mentality stretching back to the Cold War, limiting Venezuela's role in the world to little more than a proxy party in an ideological war where neither side saw any room for compromise or shared territory.
In this case, they are affixed to its government because the way they do business is to sabotage every business run in the country (how do you think that national production was halted?) until they're the sole providers of everything, like Cuba. Right now the government is investing more money on anti-protest gadgets than on boosting national production, so a change of government wouldn't magically fix everything, but would mean a faster recovery for the country (because 1 is a higher number than -200). The government took control of most producers of milk and other products, and they bankrupted a while after that.
But there's some truth to what you said, because Venezuela is plagued by apathy, unfortunately. My brother told me that in 2004, he saw someone throw garbage on the street, and after they saw him startled, they just dismissed him by saying "oh, you reacted like that just because of me throwing garbage on the street? Big deal, I thought something else had happened." And it's still true today, you'd be amazed at how often I see people throwing garbage on the street.
Jesus. This is really odd to read in retrospect. It's like Ghosts of Futures Past.
The country is struggling back from a banking crisis that was five times the size of the savings and loan collapse in the United States, in terms of the percentage of gross national product. No sooner had Venezuela won plaudits for coming through the banking debacle, however, than it had to confront a scandal involving the system of severance payments for public employees, in which billions of dollars contributed to the system have disappeared.
That is one reason the Government has not concentrated on trimming the public sector, although Labor Minister Juan N. Carrido, and most analysts of Venezuela, agree the need is strong.
"The question of where you're going to get the money for severance payments is relevant only if you do the layoffs," said Fernando Egana, the Government spokesman. "Reduction of the public sector," he added pointedly, "is very much related to the growth of the private sector."
Although Mr. Caldera came into office denouncing the austerity measures that were imposed by Mr. Perez (partly to conform with directives from the International Monetary Fund), his own administration has been negotiating for a $3 billion loan from the I.M.F. since last year. Economists here say Venezuela does not need the money as much as it needs the credibility that such a loan would convey. The country has also been negotiating a second loan of undisclosed size to ease the social impact of any hardships imposed by an I.M.F. agreement.
As I said previously, I'm not about to defend previous governments, but at least we could find basic products in super markets and flee the country more easily back then. My best friend at the time moved to the US in 1994. The fact that these other people did bad things doesn't justify the current happenings.
I was just amazed at how similar the events that preceded Chavez's rise map to the how the West caused and responded to the 2008 financial crisis. That and the reporter's complete and utter acceptance of free market austerity as the correct prescription for events combined with his incredulity that it was leading to economic upheaval and unrest.
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Captain Marcusnow arrives the hour of actionRegistered Userregular
I guess spending $TEXAS to buy off the poor and ensure that they'll always vote for you (not to mention propaganda against everyone who is non-poor) is just A-OK in the book of Canada, or wherever you're from. Machine politics, ho!
The South hated the North because they were racist traitors. They would have hated the North anyways if Lincoln had paid them for their burnt plantations. But that was a century and a half ago, and there is definitely no unrest/rift today, so again, you're wrong.
I guess spending $TEXAS to buy off the poor and ensure that they'll always vote for you (not to mention propaganda against everyone who is non-poor) is just A-OK in the book of Canada, or wherever you're from. Machine politics, ho!
The South hated the North because they were racist traitors. They would have hated the North anyways if Lincoln had paid them for their burnt plantations. But that was a century and a half ago, and there is definitely no unrest/rift today, so again, you're wrong.
Every advanced country spends $TEXAS to buy off the poor. When they don't, they get riots and unrest. The smart ones also finds ways of keeping people from being poor.
The problem isn't that Venezuela decided to create a social welfare program from its oil money. Norway does the same thing. The problem isn't that the country is a democracy. They're a messy one, but most of them are. The problem is that Chavez reacted to nonfunctional rightwing ideological economics destroying his country by adopting nonfunctional leftwing ideological economics.
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Captain Marcusnow arrives the hour of actionRegistered Userregular
Well yeah, I get that everyone buys off the poor, but he bought them off and ignored everyone else. It's not like Norway flips off the middle class while handing out subsidies to the poor.
I don't know, maybe if the Venezualan opposition had tried to defeat Chavez at the ballot box rather than attempted coups then things would have been different.
That presupposes the country has a functioning democracy where the government doesn't abuse their authority to suppress political opposition.
It does have / had a functioning democratic system. All of Venezuela's elections under Chavez were monitored by unfriendly 3rd parties, and nobody was able to find any fault with them.
Remember that Chavez did rather nearly lose his last election.
I do remember. I also remember the conditions of the campaigns before the elections. A functioning democracy hinges on more than the events on election day.
Sigh. It's always the same with Americans.
If there had been an unquestionably, unimpeachably clean DEMOCRACY! in Venezuela, would this actually change your outlook on Chavez's administration? Probably not, right? I mean, the crime and corruption would still be there, democracy or not.
The elections in Venezuela were fairer and more even handed than the elections in your own damn country - but democracy isn't everything. It turns out that a civil war leaves lasting wounds, and those wounds are more easily exacerbated in small territories with limited resources & trade.
I guess spending $TEXAS to buy off the poor and ensure that they'll always vote for you (not to mention propaganda against everyone who is non-poor) is just A-OK in the book of Canada, or wherever you're from. Machine politics, ho!
The South hated the North because they were racist traitors. They would have hated the North anyways if Lincoln had paid them for their burnt plantations. But that was a century and a half ago, and there is definitely no unrest/rift today, so again, you're wrong.
Every advanced country spends $TEXAS to buy off the poor. When they don't, they get riots and unrest. The smart ones also finds ways of keeping people from being poor.
I don't know, maybe if the Venezualan opposition had tried to defeat Chavez at the ballot box rather than attempted coups then things would have been different.
That presupposes the country has a functioning democracy where the government doesn't abuse their authority to suppress political opposition.
It does have / had a functioning democratic system. All of Venezuela's elections under Chavez were monitored by unfriendly 3rd parties, and nobody was able to find any fault with them.
Remember that Chavez did rather nearly lose his last election.
I do remember. I also remember the conditions of the campaigns before the elections. A functioning democracy hinges on more than the events on election day.
Sigh. It's always the same with Americans.
If there had been an unquestionably, unimpeachably clean DEMOCRACY! in Venezuela, would this actually change your outlook on Chavez's administration? Probably not, right? I mean, the crime and corruption would still be there, democracy or not.
Actually, it probably would have changed my outlook, especially in this line of discussion, which was about the democratic system in Venezuela, and not their problems with crime or corruption.
The elections in Venezuela were fairer and more even handed than the elections in your own damn country - but democracy isn't everything. It turns out that a civil war leaves lasting wounds, and those wounds are more easily exacerbated in small territories with limited resources & trade.
I don't think I've come across a post on these boards before that has so drastically damaged my opinion of another member. I hope the warm little shiver of condescension was worth it.
Let not any one pacify his conscience by the delusion that he can do no harm if he takes no part, and forms no opinion.
Besides the fact that there's a lot of links on this very thread that destroy your arguments (some of them provided before your rant), this is not the thread for said long-winded, nonsensical anti-US rants.
She will give an address at the OAS this Friday using the chance provided for Panama, the regime tried to jail her to stop her (and may do so after she returns).
I find it hard to be disappointed by something that could be seen coming from a mile away.
We just had our official currency further devaluated by 400% (it's not hyperbole), which means minimum wage is the equivalent of $54 a month. So much for a country that was left "better off than when he stepped into power" by chavez.
I don't know if you've noticed that I capitalize names, but fail to do so with chavez and maduro. That's on purpose. I have no respect for them, so I refuse to capitalize their names.
If it were up to me, I'd let USA take all the fucking oil in this damn country if it means it will be worth more than a piece of shit.
Of course he did. And there's no mention of his past either. Not to mention his eliding over the fact that not all of those 30 dead were opposition members.
Of course he did. And there's no mention of his past either. Not to mention his eliding over the fact that not all of those 30 dead were opposition members.
There was a correction at the bottom for that, but editors don't generally put that sort of thing in the column itself.
Not to mention some other riots that occurred yesterday in Maracaibo. They even went ahead and burned or destroyed most if not all cars parked at a building's parking lot. I have friends who live nearby and they were terrified.
I'm genuinely scared. It's quiet where I live, but I've read reports (accompanied by photos and videos) of people from other parts of my city saying that they're being attacked and their internet access and phone line being interrupted.
I wish I could ask other countries to help Venezuela, but nobody does anything for free and I doubt they'll see profit in helping us. I hope those who voted for the current regime are happy, because they helped destroy Venezuela.
Judging by history, any "help" would be a thinly veiled excuse to send in a military incursion to privatize Venezuela's oil
because nationalizing foreign built and operated machinery is totally a legit way of doing things. yeah oil companies may not be saints but lets not kid ourselves taking someones shit and not reimbursing them for it is just as bad.
So, Maduro published a op-ed on the New York Times.
My personal opinion that it was ghostwritten aside (this is the man that talks with birds), here's some fact checking about the most outrageous lie on it and one of the biggest myths on chavismo: That chavismo was the creator of free healthcare and free education on the country.
So, Maduro published a op-ed on the New York Times.
My personal opinion that it was ghostwritten aside (this is the man that talks with birds), here's some fact checking about the most outrageous lie on it and one of the biggest myths on chavismo: That chavismo was the creator of free healthcare and free education on the country.
Toro's not exactly what I would call an unbiased source. Not to mention that he tries to make the argument that the US didn't have their hands in the 2002 coup, which is a laughable argument. Note that he didn't try to deny that the current opposition leadership was involved in the 2002 coup, which would be an impossible task.
Ok, I'll address this despite that I shouldn't have to repeat it, because is evident:
For those complaining about the 2002 coup, how did Chávez got on the news again? Ah right, the 1992 coup. Just like many of his friends, now the bastards that rule the country like their personal fiefdom.
Almost all politicians on the country have participated on a coup. It is what it is. So is not a real argument.
Also, my parents graduated from those free colleges and those free public schools that didn't existed before, according to Maduro. Same as almost all 30+ year olds on the country, including the regime's supporters.
I attended a public school during all but one of my junior school years, and never once did I have to pay for tuition. In fact, we were given free milk, school bags, notebooks, pencils, and a small but very helpful pension (I thought we received books as well, but after asking my mom, she confirmed that they didn't give those away). I think they stopped doing giving away stuff (they called it a scholarship, which confused me a little when I came across the term again later on) in either 1994 or 1995, which coincides with Perez's resignation.
I can't vouch for public hospitals out of personal experience, but my guess is that health care was also free before chavez.
My point is, stop pretending that the Venezuelan regime is democratic, because all evidence so far proves beyond any doubt that it isn't.
Yeah, but he's kinda pointing out that the line of reasoning that led to your last post is why the Who have a song singing about the new boss, same as the old boss...
The fact that "the other guy did it," in and of itself, does not make it okay.
Under the old boss there wasn't lines for toilet paper...
As a start.
EDIT: On a serious note, the serious problems of rampant crime and scarcity are 100% fault of the regime, same as the repression and the lack of freedom on the press. That's why people are fighting to get rid of the regime, and no amount of complaining about the politicians (that, despite everything, are actually fighting for the damn country) will change that.
Also, given that democracy on Venezuela is a farce, Goverment change has to happen somehow.
This is an excellent argument. Let's apply it to other situations.
"For those complaining about the genocide of Jews in Hitler's Germany, how did Stalin get in the news again? Ah, right, the 1934 Holodomor.
Almost all totalitarian dictators have participated on a genocide. It is what it is. So is not a real argument".
If you trying to claim Hitler was worse than Stalin because genocide, then no, it is not a valid argument. If being involved in the 2002 coup makes a person unsuitable for leadership, then why doesn't being involved in the 1992 coup.
Let not any one pacify his conscience by the delusion that he can do no harm if he takes no part, and forms no opinion.
This is an excellent argument. Let's apply it to other situations.
"For those complaining about the genocide of Jews in Hitler's Germany, how did Stalin get in the news again? Ah, right, the 1934 Holodomor.
Almost all totalitarian dictators have participated on a genocide. It is what it is. So is not a real argument".
If you trying to claim Hitler was worse than Stalin because genocide, then no, it is not a valid argument. If being involved in the 2002 coup makes a person unsuitable for leadership, then why doesn't being involved in the 1992 coup.
Because not all coups are the same. Again, I'll point out what I said earlier - the 2002 coup was all about reestablishing the old order with the patricians in power, the middle class underneath, and everyone else gets fucked. Which is why the lower classes have been slow to warm to the opposition - they know exactly where their bread is buttered, and as long as patrician retreads like Lopez are the face of the movement, that imagery is not going away.
This is an excellent argument. Let's apply it to other situations.
"For those complaining about the genocide of Jews in Hitler's Germany, how did Stalin get in the news again? Ah, right, the 1934 Holodomor.
Almost all totalitarian dictators have participated on a genocide. It is what it is. So is not a real argument".
If you trying to claim Hitler was worse than Stalin because genocide, then no, it is not a valid argument. If being involved in the 2002 coup makes a person unsuitable for leadership, then why doesn't being involved in the 1992 coup.
Because not all coups are the same. Again, I'll point out what I said earlier - the 2002 coup was all about reestablishing the old order with the patricians in power, the middle class underneath, and everyone else gets fucked. Which is why the lower classes have been slow to warm to the opposition - they know exactly where their bread is buttered, and as long as patrician retreads like Lopez are the face of the movement, that imagery is not going away.
Under the old boss there wasn't lines for toilet paper...
As a start.
EDIT: On a serious note, the serious problems of rampant crime and scarcity are 100% fault of the regime, same as the repression and the lack of freedom on the press. That's why people are fighting to get rid of the regime, and no amount of complaining about the politicians (that, despite everything, are actually fighting for the damn country) will change that.
Also, given that democracy on Venezuela is a farce, Goverment change has to happen somehow.
No, it's just that the underclass routinely got screwed over.
As for the press, that's actually very much a product of 2002 - one of the key elements of the coup was the use of media channels to control and influence the flow of information. Which is why I find the cries of repression to be hypocritical - you don't turn the press into a weapon, then cry when its weaponization is noted and contended with.
Poor people are getting more screwed over now that hospitals don't have the means to provide minimum quality health care. Newborns have to be put in cardboard boxes, which is fucking sad. When I find the picture, I'll post it here.
Not to mention that some hospitals are also missing other materials because they don't have enough foreign exchange to acquire them (remember that everything is either imported or made with imported materials).
Ladies and gentlemen, the democratic vocation of a follower of the "best electoral system of the woooorld". For the record, I believe on democracy, but I also believe that doesn't work with a shit-tier Electoral Council and a crushing, heavily politized Statist bureaucratic machine hellbent on crushing everything on it's path.
More responses to Maduro's article, from Julio Borges (leader of one of the oppo parties, Justice First):
Ladies and gentlemen, the democratic vocation of a follower of the "best electoral system of the woooorld". For the record, I believe on democracy, but I also believe that doesn't work with a shit-tier Electoral Council and a crushing, heavily politized Statist bureaucratic machine hellbent on crushing everything on it's path.
More responses to Maduro's article, from Julio Borges (leader of one of the oppo parties, Justice First):
That's a quote from Jimmy Carter about elections on Venezuela. Notice that the Carter Institute has backpedaled from that position since then (the damage was already done). Their current position has been linked several times on this thread.
Yesterday was an ugly day, there was a sadistic attack against Central University (one of those free colleges that "didn't existed")students about to protest by regime supporters.
A recent text that I read (on Spanish) had the best argument against the old "but the poor" excuse. Besides being a textbook Argumentum ad populum, it's a form of condescending colonialism that worries more about an imaginary, abstract construct than the actual flesh-and-blood human beings that suffer under the regime.
More people dead on 2013 than in Iraq aka out of control crime, scarcity of food and medicines, institutions that are rotten to the core, these are real problems that won't go away, no matter how people rationalize their way around them.
Posts
In this case, they are affixed to its government because the way they do business is to sabotage every business run in the country (how do you think that national production was halted?) until they're the sole providers of everything, like Cuba. Right now the government is investing more money on anti-protest gadgets than on boosting national production, so a change of government wouldn't magically fix everything, but would mean a faster recovery for the country (because 1 is a higher number than -200). The government took control of most producers of milk and other products, and they bankrupted a while after that.
A change of gobernment would also mean that we'd stop giving away oil for free to Cuba and other Latin American countries. Oh, sorry, we receive low quality medical care from Cuba in exchange for cheap oil.
Have I told you that most of the products sold here are either imported or made with imported prime materials? Well, Polar won't be able produce beer and malt beverages in cans for long because their providers can't obtain the raw material needed for them.
But there's some truth to what you said, because Venezuela is plagued by apathy, unfortunately. My brother told me that in 2004, he saw someone throw garbage on the street, and after they saw him startled, they just dismissed him by saying "oh, you reacted like that just because of me throwing garbage on the street? Big deal, I thought something else had happened." And it's still true today, you'd be amazed at how often I see people throwing garbage on the street.
As I said previously, I'm not about to defend previous governments, but at least we could find basic products in super markets and flee the country more easily back then. My best friend at the time moved to the US in 1994. The fact that these other people did bad things doesn't justify the current happenings.
I was just amazed at how similar the events that preceded Chavez's rise map to the how the West caused and responded to the 2008 financial crisis. That and the reporter's complete and utter acceptance of free market austerity as the correct prescription for events combined with his incredulity that it was leading to economic upheaval and unrest.
The South hated the North because they were racist traitors. They would have hated the North anyways if Lincoln had paid them for their burnt plantations. But that was a century and a half ago, and there is definitely no unrest/rift today, so again, you're wrong.
Every advanced country spends $TEXAS to buy off the poor. When they don't, they get riots and unrest. The smart ones also finds ways of keeping people from being poor.
The problem isn't that Venezuela decided to create a social welfare program from its oil money. Norway does the same thing. The problem isn't that the country is a democracy. They're a messy one, but most of them are. The problem is that Chavez reacted to nonfunctional rightwing ideological economics destroying his country by adopting nonfunctional leftwing ideological economics.
Are you sure it wouldn't be less rampant?
Are you sure?
"We're not going to get you out of poverty so that you don't turn into escuálidos."
I wish my country were smart. Or advanced. Preferrably both, heh.
Actually, it probably would have changed my outlook, especially in this line of discussion, which was about the democratic system in Venezuela, and not their problems with crime or corruption.
Of course they were...
I don't think I've come across a post on these boards before that has so drastically damaged my opinion of another member. I hope the warm little shiver of condescension was worth it.
- John Stuart Mill
Besides the fact that there's a lot of links on this very thread that destroy your arguments (some of them provided before your rant), this is not the thread for said long-winded, nonsensical anti-US rants.
http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/45102564/highlight/481553
She will give an address at the OAS this Friday using the chance provided for Panama, the regime tried to jail her to stop her (and may do so after she returns).
Accomplices the whole of them. Here's the list:
Against:
Chile
Honduras
Costa Rica
Colombia
EEUU
Guatemala
México
Panamá
Paraguay
Perú
Canadá
Abstention:
Barbados
We just had our official currency further devaluated by 400% (it's not hyperbole), which means minimum wage is the equivalent of $54 a month. So much for a country that was left "better off than when he stepped into power" by chavez.
I don't know if you've noticed that I capitalize names, but fail to do so with chavez and maduro. That's on purpose. I have no respect for them, so I refuse to capitalize their names.
If it were up to me, I'd let USA take all the fucking oil in this damn country if it means it will be worth more than a piece of shit.
Also "we can't keep giving regulated prices on food since we need the cash for paying the National Guard/para-military thugs".
Today was a holiday on Colombia (place where black market dollars are sold) so we are going to see the actual value of the dollar tomorrow.
Leopoldo López got a NYT column:
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/26/opinion/venezuelas-failing-state.html
Of course he did. And there's no mention of his past either. Not to mention his eliding over the fact that not all of those 30 dead were opposition members.
There was a correction at the bottom for that, but editors don't generally put that sort of thing in the column itself.
Also, paramilitary groups stormed yet another building and threatened to rape a girl.
Not to mention some other riots that occurred yesterday in Maracaibo. They even went ahead and burned or destroyed most if not all cars parked at a building's parking lot. I have friends who live nearby and they were terrified.
http://diariocontraste.com/es/ultima-hora-petare-se-une-a-las-protestas-y-arman-barricadas-fotos/
I still don't know what good those barricades are going to do, but good to know the lower classes are also pissed off at the regime as well.
Bonus video!
This guy is so stupid, he looks like a Bugs Bunny villain. "Hey, the tear gas gun isn't working! Better take a look at the barrel and see what's going on!"
because nationalizing foreign built and operated machinery is totally a legit way of doing things. yeah oil companies may not be saints but lets not kid ourselves taking someones shit and not reimbursing them for it is just as bad.
My personal opinion that it was ghostwritten aside (this is the man that talks with birds), here's some fact checking about the most outrageous lie on it and one of the biggest myths on chavismo: That chavismo was the creator of free healthcare and free education on the country.
http://www.newrepublic.com/article/117240/nicolas-maduros-new-york-times-op-ed-distorts-venezuelan-history
Toro's not exactly what I would call an unbiased source. Not to mention that he tries to make the argument that the US didn't have their hands in the 2002 coup, which is a laughable argument. Note that he didn't try to deny that the current opposition leadership was involved in the 2002 coup, which would be an impossible task.
Edit: More on Toro from FAIR.
For those complaining about the 2002 coup, how did Chávez got on the news again? Ah right, the 1992 coup. Just like many of his friends, now the bastards that rule the country like their personal fiefdom.
Almost all politicians on the country have participated on a coup. It is what it is. So is not a real argument.
Also, my parents graduated from those free colleges and those free public schools that didn't existed before, according to Maduro. Same as almost all 30+ year olds on the country, including the regime's supporters.
I can't vouch for public hospitals out of personal experience, but my guess is that health care was also free before chavez.
My point is, stop pretending that the Venezuelan regime is democratic, because all evidence so far proves beyond any doubt that it isn't.
Yeah, but he's kinda pointing out that the line of reasoning that led to your last post is why the Who have a song singing about the new boss, same as the old boss...
The fact that "the other guy did it," in and of itself, does not make it okay.
As a start.
EDIT: On a serious note, the serious problems of rampant crime and scarcity are 100% fault of the regime, same as the repression and the lack of freedom on the press. That's why people are fighting to get rid of the regime, and no amount of complaining about the politicians (that, despite everything, are actually fighting for the damn country) will change that.
Also, given that democracy on Venezuela is a farce, Goverment change has to happen somehow.
If you trying to claim Hitler was worse than Stalin because genocide, then no, it is not a valid argument. If being involved in the 2002 coup makes a person unsuitable for leadership, then why doesn't being involved in the 1992 coup.
- John Stuart Mill
Because not all coups are the same. Again, I'll point out what I said earlier - the 2002 coup was all about reestablishing the old order with the patricians in power, the middle class underneath, and everyone else gets fucked. Which is why the lower classes have been slow to warm to the opposition - they know exactly where their bread is buttered, and as long as patrician retreads like Lopez are the face of the movement, that imagery is not going away.
People living in the slums of Caracas are also protesting now.
No, it's just that the underclass routinely got screwed over.
As for the press, that's actually very much a product of 2002 - one of the key elements of the coup was the use of media channels to control and influence the flow of information. Which is why I find the cries of repression to be hypocritical - you don't turn the press into a weapon, then cry when its weaponization is noted and contended with.
Not to mention that some hospitals are also missing other materials because they don't have enough foreign exchange to acquire them (remember that everything is either imported or made with imported materials).
Ladies and gentlemen, the democratic vocation of a follower of the "best electoral system of the woooorld". For the record, I believe on democracy, but I also believe that doesn't work with a shit-tier Electoral Council and a crushing, heavily politized Statist bureaucratic machine hellbent on crushing everything on it's path.
More responses to Maduro's article, from Julio Borges (leader of one of the oppo parties, Justice First):
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/03/opinion/understanding-the-protests-in-venezuela.html?ref=opinion&_r=2
And, a short explanation of why the economy of the coutnry is fucked up:
http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2014-04-01/venezuela-wants-to-spread-the-suffering
The black market dollar chart is the most striking aspect of the article.
Hey! Nobody in America claims we have the best electoral system in the world. Certainly not after that last Supreme Court decision.
Love and peace and Chavez's eyes.
Christ.
http://venezueladecoded.com/#
More people dead on 2013 than in Iraq aka out of control crime, scarcity of food and medicines, institutions that are rotten to the core, these are real problems that won't go away, no matter how people rationalize their way around them.