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Chernobyl, Comrades!

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Posts

  • bongibongi Awaiting Email Confirmation
    i'm not really in it for a discussion i'm just venting

  • JansonJanson Registered User regular
    Aye; but other people will always try to goad you into one.

    sharasugar_80.png sharanomsugar_80.png
  • SzechuanosaurusSzechuanosaurus Registered User, ClubPA
    Carbon Offsetting is an environmental timebomb.

    You think Chernobyl was bad, just wait 'til all those extra forests we're frantically planting come to the end of their life span.

  • CalliusCallius Registered User regular
    bongi wrote: »
    sorry i was just reading an article in the newspaper about a group of environmentalists who oppose the planting of biofuel crops on the grounds that it is destroying natural habitats for other organisms
    Which is a valid argument.

    tonksigblack.png
  • JansonJanson Registered User regular
    Carbon Offsetting is an environmental timebomb.

    You think Chernobyl was bad, just wait 'til all those extra forests we're frantically planting come to the end of their life span.

    I hear that any more forests in the Northern hemisphere aren't needed anyway.

    sharasugar_80.png sharanomsugar_80.png
  • RuckusRuckus Registered User regular
    Yall should see what Canada C.A.N.D.U. 4 U

    Raneados wrote: »
    so what SPECIFICALLY is the problem with my hole?
  • bongibongi Awaiting Email Confirmation
    Callius wrote: »
    bongi wrote: »
    sorry i was just reading an article in the newspaper about a group of environmentalists who oppose the planting of biofuel crops on the grounds that it is destroying natural habitats for other organisms
    Which is a valid argument.

    i'm not saying it's an invalid argument, i'm saying that it was environmentalists that pushed for biofuel adoption in the first place, and now they're complaining because the biolfuel plantations are driving off other organisms

    it's like they all want their cake and they all want to eat it too

  • SzechuanosaurusSzechuanosaurus Registered User, ClubPA
    Janson wrote: »
    Carbon Offsetting is an environmental timebomb.

    You think Chernobyl was bad, just wait 'til all those extra forests we're frantically planting come to the end of their life span.

    I hear that any more forests in the Northern hemisphere aren't needed anyway.

    The problem is, businesses have gotten it into their heads that they can keep emitting carbon so long as they pay to plant more trees to soak it up. But that means planting more and more trees every year to soak up all the extra carbon we're still emitting. And guess what happens when a tree dies? Carbon emission. All the carbon it's soaked up over it's life span. And it emits a lot quicker than new trees can soak it up.

  • CalliusCallius Registered User regular
    Janson wrote: »
    I hear that any more forests in the Northern hemisphere aren't needed anyway.
    Well, the thing is that they're needed at the low-to-mid latitudes, but actually can do harm at the upper latitudes, due changing the absorption rate of heat because of their darker colour.

    It's a really mixed bag and needs to be done with a bit more intellect than "trees are great, let's plant them everywhere!"

    tonksigblack.png
  • CalliusCallius Registered User regular
    bongi wrote: »
    i'm not saying it's an invalid argument, i'm saying that it was environmentalists that pushed for biofuel adoption in the first place, and now they're complaining because the biolfuel plantations are driving off other organisms

    it's like they all want their cake and they all want to eat it too
    Actually, a large number of environmentalists that I know (myself included) feel that biofuel, while beneficial, is a red herring.

    It's mostly the agricultural lobby (in the US at least) that's pushing for biofuel.

    tonksigblack.png
  • DefenderDefender Registered User regular
    Janson wrote: »
    See what I learnt is on the forums you need to go in-depth on whatever generalising statements you make because there is always some one lurking and waiting to argue you you.

    No, there isn't always someone who

    goddammit

    hello massa, I jar jar binks
    I've overheard someone say "Don't say something is retarded, its not cool to make fun of retards. Just say its gay."
  • bongibongi Awaiting Email Confirmation
    Callius wrote: »
    bongi wrote: »
    i'm not saying it's an invalid argument, i'm saying that it was environmentalists that pushed for biofuel adoption in the first place, and now they're complaining because the biolfuel plantations are driving off other organisms

    it's like they all want their cake and they all want to eat it too
    Actually, a large number of environmentalists that I know (myself included) feel that biofuel, while beneficial, is a red herring.

    It's mostly the agricultural lobby (in the US at least) that's pushing for biofuel.

    where do most environmentalists plan to get energy from?

  • RuckusRuckus Registered User regular
    Janson wrote: »
    Carbon Offsetting is an environmental timebomb.

    You think Chernobyl was bad, just wait 'til all those extra forests we're frantically planting come to the end of their life span.

    I hear that any more forests in the Northern hemisphere aren't needed anyway.

    The problem is, businesses have gotten it into their heads that they can keep emitting carbon so long as they pay to plant more trees to soak it up. But that means planting more and more trees every year to soak up all the extra carbon we're still emitting. And guess what happens when a tree dies? Carbon emission. All the carbon it's soaked up over it's life span. And it emits a lot quicker than new trees can soak it up.

    Sort of like this?
    TreeA --> Energy + Carbon
    TreeB + Carbon --> Energy + 2Carbon
    TreeC + 2Carbon --> Energy +3Carbon

    Raneados wrote: »
    so what SPECIFICALLY is the problem with my hole?
  • SilmarilSilmaril Mr Ha Ha Hapless. Registered User regular
    bongi wrote: »
    Callius wrote: »
    bongi wrote: »
    i'm not saying it's an invalid argument, i'm saying that it was environmentalists that pushed for biofuel adoption in the first place, and now they're complaining because the biolfuel plantations are driving off other organisms

    it's like they all want their cake and they all want to eat it too
    Actually, a large number of environmentalists that I know (myself included) feel that biofuel, while beneficial, is a red herring.

    It's mostly the agricultural lobby (in the US at least) that's pushing for biofuel.

    where do most environmentalists plan to get energy from?

    Lentils

    twispandcatsbysigsmall.jpg
  • lostwordslostwords Registered User regular
    bongi wrote: »

    where do most environmentalists plan to get energy from?


    In the future, cars will run on good intentions and love

    rat.jpg facebook? tumbler? steam/ps3 thingie: lostwords Wishlist! satan here!
  • DefenderDefender Registered User regular
    The answer is clearly to launch TreeC into space when it dies.

    hello massa, I jar jar binks
    I've overheard someone say "Don't say something is retarded, its not cool to make fun of retards. Just say its gay."
  • SzechuanosaurusSzechuanosaurus Registered User, ClubPA
    Ruckus wrote: »
    Janson wrote: »
    Carbon Offsetting is an environmental timebomb.

    You think Chernobyl was bad, just wait 'til all those extra forests we're frantically planting come to the end of their life span.

    I hear that any more forests in the Northern hemisphere aren't needed anyway.

    The problem is, businesses have gotten it into their heads that they can keep emitting carbon so long as they pay to plant more trees to soak it up. But that means planting more and more trees every year to soak up all the extra carbon we're still emitting. And guess what happens when a tree dies? Carbon emission. All the carbon it's soaked up over it's life span. And it emits a lot quicker than new trees can soak it up.

    Sort of like this?
    TreeA --> Energy + Carbon
    TreeB + Carbon --> Energy + 2Carbon
    TreeC + 2Carbon --> Energy +3Carbon

    I don't know what that is, but if it ends in the apocalypse then yes, sort of like that.

  • SzechuanosaurusSzechuanosaurus Registered User, ClubPA
    Defender wrote: »
    The answer is clearly to launch TreeC into space when it dies.

    That might work. So long as you plant a forest or two to cover the carbon emissions of the rocket fuel.



    Wait, that's not going to work at all.

  • HunterHunter Chemist with a heart of Au Registered User regular
    Callius wrote: »
    bongi wrote: »
    i'm not saying it's an invalid argument, i'm saying that it was environmentalists that pushed for biofuel adoption in the first place, and now they're complaining because the biolfuel plantations are driving off other organisms

    it's like they all want their cake and they all want to eat it too
    Actually, a large number of environmentalists that I know (myself included) feel that biofuel, while beneficial, is a red herring.

    It's mostly the agricultural lobby (in the US at least) that's pushing for biofuel.

    It's a decent stopgap, but yeah you're right.

    Hydrogen fuel is the future, or safe nuclear without the wastes.

    The issue with hydrogen fuels today is the source. Freaking assholes are getting it from petroleum sources because it's easier and more efficient then electrolysis of water. Like that solves any of the economic or environmental problems associated with gas power.

    Sammy_11Feb2012-2.jpgSammy_bath2_Feb2012-1.jpg
  • RuckusRuckus Registered User regular
    I wonder how much power you can generate with Cow Farts.

    Specifically, I wonder if you could power a Slaughterplant on Methane fueled generators.

    Raneados wrote: »
    so what SPECIFICALLY is the problem with my hole?
  • DefenderDefender Registered User regular
    No, stupid, you use a catapult.

    hello massa, I jar jar binks
    I've overheard someone say "Don't say something is retarded, its not cool to make fun of retards. Just say its gay."
  • SzechuanosaurusSzechuanosaurus Registered User, ClubPA
    Silmaril wrote: »
    bongi wrote: »
    Callius wrote: »
    bongi wrote: »
    i'm not saying it's an invalid argument, i'm saying that it was environmentalists that pushed for biofuel adoption in the first place, and now they're complaining because the biolfuel plantations are driving off other organisms

    it's like they all want their cake and they all want to eat it too
    Actually, a large number of environmentalists that I know (myself included) feel that biofuel, while beneficial, is a red herring.

    It's mostly the agricultural lobby (in the US at least) that's pushing for biofuel.

    where do most environmentalists plan to get energy from?

    Lentils


    If rubbing permafrost into my groin is wrong, hey, I don't wanna be right.

  • CalliusCallius Registered User regular
    bongi wrote: »
    where do most environmentalists plan to get energy from?
    A) quit generalizing, you're making yourself look even more stupid than you have to.

    2) Hunter just answered it. Though, I would also say that clean coal is a better stopgap than biofuel, though neither are ideal.

    tonksigblack.png
  • HunterHunter Chemist with a heart of Au Registered User regular
    bongi wrote: »
    Callius wrote: »
    bongi wrote: »
    i'm not saying it's an invalid argument, i'm saying that it was environmentalists that pushed for biofuel adoption in the first place, and now they're complaining because the biolfuel plantations are driving off other organisms

    it's like they all want their cake and they all want to eat it too
    Actually, a large number of environmentalists that I know (myself included) feel that biofuel, while beneficial, is a red herring.

    It's mostly the agricultural lobby (in the US at least) that's pushing for biofuel.

    where do most environmentalists plan to get energy from?

    If only there was a large source of energy in the vicinity of this planet we could tap. Like a solar battery or giant cosmic radiation plant, we could collect its photonic rays and store them for use.

    Sammy_11Feb2012-2.jpgSammy_bath2_Feb2012-1.jpg
  • CalliusCallius Registered User regular
    Ruckus wrote: »
    I wonder how much power you can generate with Cow Farts.

    Specifically, I wonder if you could power a Slaughterplant on Methane fueled generators.
    Natasha's dad went to a reclaimed methane powered cow farm. He brought back pictures and it was AWESOME.

    Definitely a step in the right direction.

    tonksigblack.png
  • DefenderDefender Registered User regular
    Mako energy.

    hello massa, I jar jar binks
    I've overheard someone say "Don't say something is retarded, its not cool to make fun of retards. Just say its gay."
  • CalliusCallius Registered User regular
    Hunter wrote: »
    If only there was a large source of energy in the vicinity of this planet we could tap. Like a solar battery or giant cosmic radiation plant, we could collect its photonic rays and store them for use.
    PS: relying on one source of energy manufacture and storage is stupid.

    tonksigblack.png
  • lostwordslostwords Registered User regular
    Someone should start working on plant/human hybrids.

    Bonus: when they die, you can burn their bodies for fuel.

    rat.jpg facebook? tumbler? steam/ps3 thingie: lostwords Wishlist! satan here!
  • HunterHunter Chemist with a heart of Au Registered User regular
    Wouldn't it be awesome if we figure out a way to fuel the world through masturbation. The internet would flow with the power of porn and manjuice.

    Sammy_11Feb2012-2.jpgSammy_bath2_Feb2012-1.jpg
  • SzechuanosaurusSzechuanosaurus Registered User, ClubPA
    Defender wrote: »
    No, stupid, you use a catapult.

    Well, it's an idea. But I'm going to have to see a report on projected carbon emissions from creating the raw materials, transporting them to the place of construction, labour transportation, power consumption at the construction site, transportation of the finished catapult to the launch site and transportation of tree C to the launch site before I sign off on it.

  • bongibongi Awaiting Email Confirmation
    Hunter wrote: »
    bongi wrote: »
    Callius wrote: »
    bongi wrote: »
    i'm not saying it's an invalid argument, i'm saying that it was environmentalists that pushed for biofuel adoption in the first place, and now they're complaining because the biolfuel plantations are driving off other organisms

    it's like they all want their cake and they all want to eat it too
    Actually, a large number of environmentalists that I know (myself included) feel that biofuel, while beneficial, is a red herring.

    It's mostly the agricultural lobby (in the US at least) that's pushing for biofuel.

    where do most environmentalists plan to get energy from?

    If only there was a large source of energy in the vicinity of this planet we could tap. Like a solar battery or giant cosmic radiation plant, we could collect its photonic rays and store them for use.

    doesn't that also entail destruction of natural environments? to generate decent energy requires vast areas of photovoltaic cells, no?

    and nuclear power, i used to be behind it, but recent studies have showed that the net CO2 production is at best only marginally lower than fossil fuel production and at worst can be higher, depending upon the quality of ore extracted

    tcallius: i wasn't generalising in a demeaning way, i was asking because i'm genuinely curious; i had to learn about some of the energy alternatives in chemistry, but i don't know which ones are currently favoured

  • RuckusRuckus Registered User regular
    Callius wrote: »
    Ruckus wrote: »
    I wonder how much power you can generate with Cow Farts.

    Specifically, I wonder if you could power a Slaughterplant on Methane fueled generators.
    Natasha's dad went to a reclaimed methane powered cow farm. He brought back pictures and it was AWESOME.

    Definitely a step in the right direction.

    I saw one on Dirty Jobs that created biodegrading planting pots with cowpoop and used methane to power at least part of the operation.

    Raneados wrote: »
    so what SPECIFICALLY is the problem with my hole?
  • CalliusCallius Registered User regular
    Bongi, quick synopsis of the problems associated with biofuel:

    Destruction of habitat (possibly of imperiled(sp) habitat); increased pollution run off due to lack of forest buffer and increased nitrate; less efficient than other forms of fuel (biofuel is notoriously inefficient); amount of energy put into production and transportation of biofuel offsets the benefits greatly; reducing ariable land which can be used to feed people (yes, starvation is still a problem in the world);

    The list really goes on, but that's just a brief synopsis.

    tonksigblack.png
  • HunterHunter Chemist with a heart of Au Registered User regular
    Callius wrote: »
    Hunter wrote: »
    If only there was a large source of energy in the vicinity of this planet we could tap. Like a solar battery or giant cosmic radiation plant, we could collect its photonic rays and store them for use.
    PS: relying on one source of energy manufacture and storage is stupid.

    The sun has been and is the sole source of all our energy already, so I think it would be OK.

    Sammy_11Feb2012-2.jpgSammy_bath2_Feb2012-1.jpg
  • DefenderDefender Registered User regular
    Defender wrote: »
    No, stupid, you use a catapult.

    Well, it's an idea. But I'm going to have to see a report on projected carbon emissions from creating the raw materials, transporting them to the place of construction, labour transportation, power consumption at the construction site, transportation of the finished catapult to the launch site and transportation of tree C to the launch site before I sign off on it.

    "Use Amazon children for labor, and use TreeA and TreeB for materials."

    hello massa, I jar jar binks
    I've overheard someone say "Don't say something is retarded, its not cool to make fun of retards. Just say its gay."
  • RuckusRuckus Registered User regular
    Defender wrote: »
    Defender wrote: »
    No, stupid, you use a catapult.

    Well, it's an idea. But I'm going to have to see a report on projected carbon emissions from creating the raw materials, transporting them to the place of construction, labour transportation, power consumption at the construction site, transportation of the finished catapult to the launch site and transportation of tree C to the launch site before I sign off on it.

    "Use Amazon children for labor, and use TreeA and TreeB for materials."

    Defender, how are you not a governor or senator or something?

    Raneados wrote: »
    so what SPECIFICALLY is the problem with my hole?
  • CalliusCallius Registered User regular
    bongi wrote: »
    doesn't that also entail destruction of natural environments? to generate decent energy requires vast areas of photovoltaic cells, no?

    and nuclear power, i used to be behind it, but recent studies have showed that the net CO2 production is at best only marginally lower than fossil fuel production and at worst can be higher, depending upon the quality of ore extracted

    tcallius: i wasn't generalising in a demeaning way, i was asking because i'm genuinely curious; i had to learn about some of the energy alternatives in chemistry, but i don't know which ones are currently favoured
    Solar Panels: Possibly, but you also have to realize how much surface area we currently take up and the possibility of retrofitting those areas with solar-arrays (namely the tops of buildings). Also remember that if we make that our sole source of energy we would be asking for trouble. However, rennovation of habitat isn't, by itself, a negative thing (well, it is but it's one of those "ends justify the means" types that we also use when constructing cities, highways and housing), you just have to be careful WHERE you build.

    Nuclear: Uh, last I heard nuclear produces absolutely NO CO2, save for the energy used to create and maintain the plant... but if we're able to extract the energy and store it safely for later use then this CO2 emmission would be non-existant since we could power the creation and maintenance on these 0-emmision solutions.

    tonksigblack.png
  • HunterHunter Chemist with a heart of Au Registered User regular
    bongi wrote: »
    Hunter wrote: »
    bongi wrote: »
    Callius wrote: »
    bongi wrote: »
    i'm not saying it's an invalid argument, i'm saying that it was environmentalists that pushed for biofuel adoption in the first place, and now they're complaining because the biolfuel plantations are driving off other organisms

    it's like they all want their cake and they all want to eat it too
    Actually, a large number of environmentalists that I know (myself included) feel that biofuel, while beneficial, is a red herring.

    It's mostly the agricultural lobby (in the US at least) that's pushing for biofuel.

    where do most environmentalists plan to get energy from?

    If only there was a large source of energy in the vicinity of this planet we could tap. Like a solar battery or giant cosmic radiation plant, we could collect its photonic rays and store them for use.

    doesn't that also entail destruction of natural environments? to generate decent energy requires vast areas of photovoltaic cells, no?

    and nuclear power, i used to be behind it, but recent studies have showed that the net CO2 production is at best only marginally lower than fossil fuel production and at worst can be higher, depending upon the quality of ore extracted

    tcallius: i wasn't generalising in a demeaning way, i was asking because i'm genuinely curious; i had to learn about some of the energy alternatives in chemistry, but i don't know which ones are currently favoured

    The problem is collection and conversion. Storage is fairly easy. If we spent half as much money in the last 30 years on collection cell technology and conversion technology as say finding new oil sources, then we would have solar powered everything now.

    Still, front runners now are Hydrogen and nuclear fusion. Hydrogen is limited by ceramic technologies needed to construct the engines to run the damn stuff to it's highest potential and fusion is still beyond our grasp to control or fully understand. At least we know is that it's physically possible.

    Sammy_11Feb2012-2.jpgSammy_bath2_Feb2012-1.jpg
  • msuitepyonmsuitepyon Registered User regular
    Callius wrote: »
    bongi wrote: »
    doesn't that also entail destruction of natural environments? to generate decent energy requires vast areas of photovoltaic cells, no?

    and nuclear power, i used to be behind it, but recent studies have showed that the net CO2 production is at best only marginally lower than fossil fuel production and at worst can be higher, depending upon the quality of ore extracted

    tcallius: i wasn't generalising in a demeaning way, i was asking because i'm genuinely curious; i had to learn about some of the energy alternatives in chemistry, but i don't know which ones are currently favoured
    Solar Panels: Possibly, but you also have to realize how much surface area we currently take up and the possibility of retrofitting those areas with solar-arrays (namely the tops of buildings). Also remember that if we make that our sole source of energy we would be asking for trouble. However, rennovation of habitat isn't, by itself, a negative thing (well, it is but it's one of those "ends justify the means" types that we also use when constructing cities, highways and housing), you just have to be careful WHERE you build.

    Nuclear: Uh, last I heard nuclear produces absolutely NO CO2, save for the energy used to create and maintain the plant... but if we're able to extract the energy and store it safely for later use then this CO2 emmission would be non-existant since we could power the creation and maintenance on these 0-emmision solutions.

    Nuclear energy's only output to the environment is steam.

  • CalliusCallius Registered User regular
    Hunter wrote: »
    The sun has been and is the sole source of all our energy already, so I think it would be OK.
    Tou-fucking-che.

    tonksigblack.png
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