mechanically, what do all the 'okay whatever / YOU'LL PAY FOR THIS' choices you get in diplomacy actually do?
I get that with the settlement or archaeology ones you're making a promise that you can break or pay off later, but I never know how to respond when somebody denounces me
it was the smallest on the list but
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
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jakobaggerLO THY DREAD EMPIRE CHAOS IS RESTOREDRegistered Userregular
If you're going space don't you basically have to go order at this point? You've got enough faith production that you should be able to store up some Great Engineers and build the whole damn rocket in one turn if you get the T3 "rush engine parts w/ engineers" tenet.
I really like Autocracy with this kind of approach. Double strategic resources is pretty sweet, and the +5 Food/Science in the capitol tenet is actually more like +5 Food/+12~ Science, which while not a huge pile that late in the game, it sure makes a difference. Although the +1 Food/Culture/Gold/Hammer/Science per city tenet and Five-Year Plan tenet in Order are almost certainly better, I find the Prora to be a much better draw into an ideology than the Kremlin.
I really like Autocracy with this kind of approach. Double strategic resources is pretty sweet, and the +5 Food/Science in the capitol tenet is actually more like +5 Food/+12~ Science, which while not a huge pile that late in the game, it sure makes a difference. Although the +1 Food/Culture/Gold/Hammer/Science per city tenet and Five-Year Plan tenet in Order are almost certainly better, I find the Prora to be a much better draw into an ideology than the Kremlin.
Meanwhile the like 20 happiness we'll be getting from monuments is a big draw for me.
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
Yeah, Autocracy just doesn't win on any front. The Prora is better than the admittedly terrible Kremlin, but Order has so much easy Happiness and Production (and the Happiness comes from buildings puppets will have/build) that it doesn't matter. It also doesn't help that Gunboat Diplomacy has some quirks.
Autocracy is good for nukes, though! I had a game as Russian Autocracy and had something like 64 Uranium, which should have been 16 if not for my CB and tenet. I'll be the first to admit, however, that there's no way I'd ever get 64 GDRs.
I think the last time I used a nuke in a non "HAHAHAHA fuck y'all I'm in space, motherfuckers" way was in Civ2. When I was like 12.
Anyway, update will finally come tonight, barring many overtimes in the Wings/Bruins game. I have instead been rigging Deity games until I won one (Huns, duel map, pick a non-military enemy civ) because I wanted that achievement finally. Also watching other hockey.
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
I think the only time I've used nukes in Civ 5 was to ninja-cap a capital that was about to finish a spaceship. I've had Hiawatha lay waste to my cities in a few games, though.
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ShogunHair long; money long; me and broke wizards we don't get alongRegistered Userregular
I nuked Catherine once as England even though I was going to win with a certainty. And I took her only city not drenched in fallout in the negotiations. Fuckin bitch.
Maria attacks! She has roughly tech parity, her capital is invulnerable until artillery. Lame. Carthage we can maybe take though. I fear the frigates.
The choke point solves a lot of problems though. They don't want to attack that musket and I have a ton of ranged dudes across the channel.
It goes about how you'd expect. They do manage to push me off the east coast with frigates and kill a crossbow. Bummer.
ARRRRRRRRRGH. At least settle some good land, assholes.
That's a little better, but still.
This is done, despite pillaging from Zanzibar on the far west coast. Stupid Portugal being allied with them. As best I can tell they built a billion Naos, sent them over hereish and got a ton of cash, which they used to bribe some of my city states. Grrrr.
Start moving in on Carthage. Clever observers will note I forgot something.
The general.
WHAT. You're dumb.
Sigh.
Alright. MAXIMUM HITLER TIME
I lose a couple units trying to take Carthage, because I'm dumb and forgot the general. So stupid. We make peace after this, because I need some time to murder DIdo.
Portugal also beat me to Order by a couple turns, so only one free policy. BLARGH
Next time: Dynamite is discovered, I start actually building units, and maybe some internal trade routes are established. Also: Carthage WILL be eliminated. With extreme prejudice.
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
ebum, the the Dragon At The End of The World, stalks the dreams of the other civilization leaders. They rattle swords and shout curses at him, but he is always sitting outside their palaces, maw cavernous and feet bloodied.
Do you know what is a fucking pain? Fighting emperor level allied Sweden and Spain in the late Renaissance/early Industrial. Fucking Caroleans. With 20 unhappiness because your theoretical fucking allies the Dutch stab you in the back just after you conquer Venice who had also attacked you. Oh also, you're the worst civ in the game (Ottomans).
I mean, I'm winning and once artillery come on line I'm going to utterly annihilate both Spain and the Dutch and then go after Sweden with tanks. But still!
Janissaries are good though, apparently.
Note: I NEVER declared war, they just all hate me because I built seven cities and the AIs get all pissy if you go above four. Only one of them was even aggressive, and it's not like Venice can build new ones anyway.
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
Pretend there's a whole bunch of shots of artillery firing at cities, etc etc etc.
I'm going to call that one, because frankly being at war with everyone forever in a war I'm obviously going to win is kind of boring. And the lack of updates is because of that.
So I'm calling the Maya game.
I'm now looking for suggestions on what you'd like to see.
Civs, map types, size (not above large, I could do large, but it would be a bit slow), if you want a scenario, if there's a mod you want me to try, victory condition, gimmick.
Default difficulty will be emperor, but if it's something I'm totally unfamiliar with mod/scenario wise might kick it back down to monarch.
Unless there's an overwhelming favorite suggestion from the crowd, the one I find the most interesting will win.
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
The Mass Effect mod is pretty well-done and it got a nice BNW update a couple days ago. More specifically, KROGAAAAAAAAAAAAN! would be my preference, but up to you.
Ooh, and either make all the other civs random ME civs, or pick vanilla civs so it's a perfectly normal game, except, like, there's Geth.
The AI gets pissy if you do anything that makes you the clear winner and possibly weak on any front, had plenty of games where I had 10+ cities without them caring. Simply depends on the map and what the AI's chosen routes to victory are.
I had a game as Ethiopa where Mongolia and Spain were my BFFs. They adopted my religion happily, followed into Order after me and there was no backstabbing up until I won a council victory.
Of course, the Dutch and Iriquoix kept declaring war on one, two or all three of us basically seemingly at random, which I seem to remember being fairly nonaggressive civs in the past. I do kind of like this level of unpredictability, though. The super-friendly Mongolia starting 16 hexes North of Addis Ababa certainly surprised the hell out of me, and Madrid wasn't that far off to my West (maybe 30 hexes) and just went to absolute town on Carthage and Byzantine, wrecking their proverbial and literal shit up and down the coast all game.
In regards to what I'd like to see next:
How about an Earth-like map as a random civ? I'd like to see how someone better than me tackles a completely unknown situation and makes all decisions on the fly. It might also be nice to see a game where you didn't go batshit insane and start murdering the AI super early (I understand that they are asking for it, but sometimes you can be Dude Love instead of Papa Shango).
Challenge
1. You may only build primary cities near wonders (capital excepted).
2. For each primary city you may build a supporting secondary city.
3. Wonders may only be built in primary cities.
"The western world sips from a poisonous cocktail: Polarisation, populism, protectionism and post-truth"
-Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
I had a game as Ethiopa where Mongolia and Spain were my BFFs. They adopted my religion happily, followed into Order after me and there was no backstabbing up until I won a council victory.
Of course, the Dutch and Iriquoix kept declaring war on one, two or all three of us basically seemingly at random, which I seem to remember being fairly nonaggressive civs in the past. I do kind of like this level of unpredictability, though. The super-friendly Mongolia starting 16 hexes North of Addis Ababa certainly surprised the hell out of me, and Madrid wasn't that far off to my West (maybe 30 hexes) and just went to absolute town on Carthage and Byzantine, wrecking their proverbial and literal shit up and down the coast all game.
In regards to what I'd like to see next:
How about an Earth-like map as a random civ? I'd like to see how someone better than me tackles a completely unknown situation and makes all decisions on the fly. It might also be nice to see a game where you didn't go batshit insane and start murdering the AI super early (I understand that they are asking for it, but sometimes you can be Dude Love instead of Papa Shango).
I'm all for peace! It's just you know... I like expanding and when I feel boxed in I lash out.
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
The Smoky Skies scenario is pretty fun, and relatively quick. They shuffled the tech tree quite a bit and you (and the AI) start with 3 or 4 settlers and are basically unable to build any more than that. However, you get to have airships and landships and steam powered aircraft to impose your will with. I had a lot of fun with it the couple times I played it.
Alternatively, the BNW scenario Scramble For Africa sounds intriguing, but I've never gotten around to playing it.
how do you even manage to piss that many AIs off in a science game? I usually do enough trading and religion and so on to keep at least a couple of my neighbors happy with me
it was the smallest on the list but
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
how do you even manage to piss that many AIs off in a science game? I usually do enough trading and religion and so on to keep at least a couple of my neighbors happy with me
Well, I murdered Germany and England because they were too close/had the good land. Annnnnnd then the thread wanted me to kill Venice/Carthage so we did that...
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
I'm in the piety tree already. Next game will probably be on emperor and I'll let y'all suggest gimmicks until I find one amusing.
Venice. Domination Only. OCC. I loved the hell out of doing that once.
OK, it's not Domination, but...
Interlude
Hey it's a game with Venice. OCC, Emperor. A brief thing, just because this would have been super boring to read about. Venice itself... well, you'll see.
Anyway, I wasn't going to present anything from this game until I ran across this. A formation of four embarked Austrian Great Prophets. Whatever, AI.
I was trying to get to 2k culture off of one city, but I just didn't have the hammers to win the World's Fair, despite several others being at war and the International Games also being available. Did get to 1k, which I suppose is fine.
This annoys me. Call it an economic victory, because that's what it is, Firaxis. Bribe all the city states! Which I had by the middle of the Renaissance.
Anyway, I won and got my OCC achievement, hooray. Could have taken this down with culture, actually. If I had bothered with an airport and the Louvre, would have been up around 800 with the internet.
Because...
I moved Venice two hexes to the sw from where it had started and picked up marble. So Venice had... a few wonders. And was making wonders and research and that's it from like, turn 40 on. It ended up with...
A few of them. 20something, I think.
Which isn't to say I neglected my military! Two military city states, bought some of my own dudes, upgraded a bunch. I had the largest army for most of the game, and could have crushed everyone fairly easily. But I was everyone's friends!
enlightenedbum on
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
I wish there was more to diplomatic victory. Someway to get the AI to vote for someone other than themselves.
Anyone else there was a way for groups of nations to win. When ever the AI tells me that they feel that our mutual friendship with another civ could lead to great things, I always wish there was a way we could form a permanent defensive pact between the three nations, like NATO irl. I think the late game being dominated by alliances would be cool.
I wish there was more to diplomatic victory. Someway to get the AI to vote for someone other than themselves.
Anyone else there was a way for groups of nations to win. When ever the AI tells me that they feel that our mutual friendship with another civ could lead to great things, I always wish there was a way we could form a permanent defensive pact between the three nations, like NATO irl. I think the late game being dominated by alliances would be cool.
You can get people to vote for you, and I even sniped a victory with it once. Unfortunately the only way to do it is with Returned to Life civs, who obviously owe you one. Having Attila in a game can be a blessing for that reason, because he'll run over a few civs but never actually get his science off the ground, so you've got a couple RTL options later on.
jakobaggerLO THY DREAD EMPIRE CHAOS IS RESTOREDRegistered Userregular
The Civilization subreddit (ew, reddit. I know, I know.) has some weekly or maybe monthly challenges that might be fun. Some of them are just crazy map settings, others require you to play a certain way etc.
Shoshone proxy general rush into mega expansion is always entertaining and usually a bit chaotic if you want something that switches from extreme aggression into extreme empire building. Once you have your portion of the map blanketed in cities any VC goes, commiting genocide before leaving the ancient era is something I always enjoy trying to recover from.
Mass Effect mod is the most popular but... I've never played any of them so feel like I would be lost.
I played with it yesterday, uhhh Harbinger is some sort of insane cheat race or something, they start with a city that seems a bit slow, but their money/research is absurdly high. Also their units cost 10 gold and when they kill something they seem to have a high chance of converting that unit. First game I played I built a bunch and sent them out into the world and when I found another civ I just declared war on them and my unending army of barbarian units won.
Also you start with a giant death robot, and if you can get terra cotta, you get two. The other races seem to swing between really good perks and ehhhh.
Oh, also the units that you convert can also convert. Game went basically: Their scouts meet my husks, I declare war and convert. 10 turns later my army of 20+ units show up and burns their town down while moving on to the next. Converting more barbarians along the way. Playing with every Civ as harbinger + raging barbarians would be... interesting.
Posts
I get that with the settlement or archaeology ones you're making a promise that you can break or pay off later, but I never know how to respond when somebody denounces me
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
Communism can into space.
Meanwhile the like 20 happiness we'll be getting from monuments is a big draw for me.
Anyway, update will finally come tonight, barring many overtimes in the Wings/Bruins game. I have instead been rigging Deity games until I won one (Huns, duel map, pick a non-military enemy civ) because I wanted that achievement finally. Also watching other hockey.
Shogun Streams Vidya
Maria attacks! She has roughly tech parity, her capital is invulnerable until artillery. Lame. Carthage we can maybe take though. I fear the frigates.
The choke point solves a lot of problems though. They don't want to attack that musket and I have a ton of ranged dudes across the channel.
It goes about how you'd expect. They do manage to push me off the east coast with frigates and kill a crossbow. Bummer.
ARRRRRRRRRGH. At least settle some good land, assholes.
That's a little better, but still.
This is done, despite pillaging from Zanzibar on the far west coast. Stupid Portugal being allied with them. As best I can tell they built a billion Naos, sent them over hereish and got a ton of cash, which they used to bribe some of my city states. Grrrr.
Start moving in on Carthage. Clever observers will note I forgot something.
WHAT. You're dumb.
Sigh.
Alright. MAXIMUM HITLER TIME
I lose a couple units trying to take Carthage, because I'm dumb and forgot the general. So stupid. We make peace after this, because I need some time to murder DIdo.
Portugal also beat me to Order by a couple turns, so only one free policy. BLARGH
Next time: Dynamite is discovered, I start actually building units, and maybe some internal trade routes are established. Also: Carthage WILL be eliminated. With extreme prejudice.
Penny Arcade Rockstar Social Club / This is why I despise cyclists
I mean, I'm winning and once artillery come on line I'm going to utterly annihilate both Spain and the Dutch and then go after Sweden with tanks. But still!
Janissaries are good though, apparently.
Note: I NEVER declared war, they just all hate me because I built seven cities and the AIs get all pissy if you go above four. Only one of them was even aggressive, and it's not like Venice can build new ones anyway.
I'm going to call that one, because frankly being at war with everyone forever in a war I'm obviously going to win is kind of boring. And the lack of updates is because of that.
So I'm calling the Maya game.
I'm now looking for suggestions on what you'd like to see.
Civs, map types, size (not above large, I could do large, but it would be a bit slow), if you want a scenario, if there's a mod you want me to try, victory condition, gimmick.
Default difficulty will be emperor, but if it's something I'm totally unfamiliar with mod/scenario wise might kick it back down to monarch.
Unless there's an overwhelming favorite suggestion from the crowd, the one I find the most interesting will win.
Ooh, and either make all the other civs random ME civs, or pick vanilla civs so it's a perfectly normal game, except, like, there's Geth.
Penny Arcade Rockstar Social Club / This is why I despise cyclists
Of course, the Dutch and Iriquoix kept declaring war on one, two or all three of us basically seemingly at random, which I seem to remember being fairly nonaggressive civs in the past. I do kind of like this level of unpredictability, though. The super-friendly Mongolia starting 16 hexes North of Addis Ababa certainly surprised the hell out of me, and Madrid wasn't that far off to my West (maybe 30 hexes) and just went to absolute town on Carthage and Byzantine, wrecking their proverbial and literal shit up and down the coast all game.
In regards to what I'd like to see next:
How about an Earth-like map as a random civ? I'd like to see how someone better than me tackles a completely unknown situation and makes all decisions on the fly. It might also be nice to see a game where you didn't go batshit insane and start murdering the AI super early (I understand that they are asking for it, but sometimes you can be Dude Love instead of Papa Shango).
Challenge
1. You may only build primary cities near wonders (capital excepted).
2. For each primary city you may build a supporting secondary city.
3. Wonders may only be built in primary cities.
-Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
I'm all for peace! It's just you know... I like expanding and when I feel boxed in I lash out.
Penny Arcade Rockstar Social Club / This is why I despise cyclists
Alternatively, the BNW scenario Scramble For Africa sounds intriguing, but I've never gotten around to playing it.
You want Ron Perlman's phone number so you can just phone it in?
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
Well, I murdered Germany and England because they were too close/had the good land. Annnnnnd then the thread wanted me to kill Venice/Carthage so we did that...
OK, it's not Domination, but...
Interlude
Hey it's a game with Venice. OCC, Emperor. A brief thing, just because this would have been super boring to read about. Venice itself... well, you'll see.
Anyway, I wasn't going to present anything from this game until I ran across this. A formation of four embarked Austrian Great Prophets. Whatever, AI.
I was trying to get to 2k culture off of one city, but I just didn't have the hammers to win the World's Fair, despite several others being at war and the International Games also being available. Did get to 1k, which I suppose is fine.
This annoys me. Call it an economic victory, because that's what it is, Firaxis. Bribe all the city states! Which I had by the middle of the Renaissance.
Anyway, I won and got my OCC achievement, hooray. Could have taken this down with culture, actually. If I had bothered with an airport and the Louvre, would have been up around 800 with the internet.
Because...
I moved Venice two hexes to the sw from where it had started and picked up marble. So Venice had... a few wonders. And was making wonders and research and that's it from like, turn 40 on. It ended up with...
A few of them. 20something, I think.
Which isn't to say I neglected my military! Two military city states, bought some of my own dudes, upgraded a bunch. I had the largest army for most of the game, and could have crushed everyone fairly easily. But I was everyone's friends!
Anyone else there was a way for groups of nations to win. When ever the AI tells me that they feel that our mutual friendship with another civ could lead to great things, I always wish there was a way we could form a permanent defensive pact between the three nations, like NATO irl. I think the late game being dominated by alliances would be cool.
You can get people to vote for you, and I even sniped a victory with it once. Unfortunately the only way to do it is with Returned to Life civs, who obviously owe you one. Having Attila in a game can be a blessing for that reason, because he'll run over a few civs but never actually get his science off the ground, so you've got a couple RTL options later on.
Penny Arcade Rockstar Social Club / This is why I despise cyclists
I played with it yesterday, uhhh Harbinger is some sort of insane cheat race or something, they start with a city that seems a bit slow, but their money/research is absurdly high. Also their units cost 10 gold and when they kill something they seem to have a high chance of converting that unit. First game I played I built a bunch and sent them out into the world and when I found another civ I just declared war on them and my unending army of barbarian units won.
Also you start with a giant death robot, and if you can get terra cotta, you get two. The other races seem to swing between really good perks and ehhhh.
Oh, also the units that you convert can also convert. Game went basically: Their scouts meet my husks, I declare war and convert. 10 turns later my army of 20+ units show up and burns their town down while moving on to the next. Converting more barbarians along the way. Playing with every Civ as harbinger + raging barbarians would be... interesting.
And, yeah, as @Retaba has pointed out, you should make sure Harbinger is not present, except if you want to do an "everyone vs Harbinger" game.