I wouldn't go so far as saying a flaming pile of hot garbage. Maybe more like what might have been a comfortable pair of socks if it weren't so damp and wrinkled.
That's a good metaphor. There was one hell of a downpour when it came out, to be sure. Makes it hard to evaluate what one would think of it in the absence of that, since it's everywhere.
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Warlock82Never pet a burning dogRegistered Userregular
Weren't delays the main complaint about MN9's development cycle? I'm perfectly fine with waiting on the game to be ready, but I find it kind of odd to compare it to MN9 in that specific way.
That said, I kinda felt like MN9 was a decent game. Of course, it being The Kickstarter Game for the longest time doesn't exactly bring expectations down. "Decent but flawed" slides into the side of unacceptable after that much hype. It's a damn shame that the reception pretty much ensures that there will never be another game in that series, since I thought there were places the characters could go that I wanted to see. C'est la vie, I guess.
Personally I didn't hate the game as much as some people, but I think the difference is MN9 was delayed because of a single bug with the multiplayer portion that caused it to fail certification. For a lot of people, the thought is "ok, so release it and patch the multiplayer in later." I always understood why this wasn't really feasible (for marketing reasons among other things). That said, for as long as the game was delayed trying to fix apparently this single bug, it was released in kind of a rough state. Unlike Bloodstained where the delays are to improve the game, it's pretty obvious MN9 was not touched during that delay period other than fixing the specific problems. If they had been able to use that time to fine tune things - maybe spice up the graphics a bit, tune level difficulty, make the Wii U version less crappy, etc, I think people would have been a lot more forgiving.
Granted, I don't think they had the money to keep staff working on it during that time so I can see why they didn't, but I also don't think most people get that, especially when the game made as much as it did on Kickstarter.
Oh, also, there's the fact that ever since Deep Silver became involved they became secretive as shit and even waited to comment on the many delay rumors for quite awhile. That's the kind of thing I think that got people to turn on the game. Bloodstained has been really good about keeping backers in the loop I feel.
KalnaurI See Rain . . .Centralia, WARegistered Userregular
I know there was hate for MN9, but I think I'm glad I skipped it. Much like the hype for that game. Much like the hype for No Man's Sky (so I went in only expecting what the devs wrote on their August 8th blog entry).
I feel like hype is a thing for those much younger than me, by, like, 10-15 years (for reference, I'm 37 in a little over 2 months). Now, I just look around from time to time and see if anything's coming out that looks good. Hit up the threads for things every so often. And then I wait, and see how it comes along a few months later. And then forget about it again. Hype too often becomes obsession, and I'm just not up for that anymore.
I make art things! deviantART:Kalnaur ::: Origin: Kalnaur ::: UPlay: Kalnaur
The only thing I'm worried about with the delay is the possibility of them cancelling the Wii U version. But we'll see. If it happens I guess I'll just go with another version.
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Warlock82Never pet a burning dogRegistered Userregular
The only thing I'm worried about with the delay is the possibility of them cancelling the Wii U version. But we'll see. If it happens I guess I'll just go with another version.
Yeah I thought about that... Wii U will be long dead at that point. Wonder if they will move to NX?
MN9 also had them stating very clearly that there was no delay announcement coming and there would be no more delays. And then announced a delay the very next day.
At the end, MN9's delays were a running joke. Enhanced and exasperated by all the other events going on with the game and company. People aren't going to generally mind one or two delays. It's the difference between stumbling once or twice, and faceplanting over and over and over.
Kickstarters in general should just adopt a new system for setting a release date. Take the date you're going to write down. Then, erase the month and just leave the year. Then add 1 to the year. There, there's the release date you should tell the people. Don't even reveal the month until preferebly when the game has gone gold and you're pressing discs or submitting final review code.
"The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
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mastertheheroProfessional Video Editor & Book AuthorRegistered Userregular
And this is why I don't kickstart video games. I don't have the kind of money to just burn away on empty or underwhelming promises.
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SteevLWhat can I do for you?Registered Userregular
And this is why I don't kickstart video games. I don't have the kind of money to just burn away on empty or underwhelming promises.
It can definitely be a crapshoot, but I've been pretty happy with the results of most of the Kickstarters I've contributed to, even when they were delayed. And it's rare that they ever come out on their projected date. It is definitely not for everyone!
And this is why I don't kickstart video games. I don't have the kind of money to just burn away on empty or underwhelming promises.
It can definitely be a crapshoot, but I've been pretty happy with the results of most of the Kickstarters I've contributed to, even when they were delayed. And it's rare that they ever come out on their projected date. It is definitely not for everyone!
Yeah, I don't think I have regretted any, even MN9 (though maybe I gave them more money than I should have)
I definitely regret MN9. It isn't that it's a bad game. It's just that the game they delivered has no soul. It's the most generic, bland, and uninteresting game I've played. The enemy designs were super lame, the bosses were all very "by the number" and the whole thing just felt like they phoned it in.
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KalnaurI See Rain . . .Centralia, WARegistered Userregular
I definitely regret MN9. It isn't that it's a bad game. It's just that the game they delivered has no soul. It's the most generic, bland, and uninteresting game I've played. The enemy designs were super lame, the bosses were all very "by the number" and the whole thing just felt like they phoned it in.
But isn't that early Mega Man to a T?
I make art things! deviantART:Kalnaur ::: Origin: Kalnaur ::: UPlay: Kalnaur
I'm sorry the game was a bad experience for you, Lucascraft. I can't say I feel the same way about the game, but I won't pretend that my experience is more valid.
Enlong on
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KalnaurI See Rain . . .Centralia, WARegistered Userregular
edited September 2016
Sorry, that sounds more confrontational than I mean it, let me step back.
I played Mega Man 3 as a kid. Only that one. Recently, I played through the rest of the base Mega Man through 6, and besides some small upgrades here and there, every game felt pretty much the same. Same bosses, same enemies, same everything. Without the nostalgia to carry it, my experience was that the games were fine, but they felt like the same game, in 6 different iterations.
Now, I found X and X2 to be at least different enough to say that both makes sense to exist in a series of games. Even if the justification was thin, it felt like there was a reason for that series to continue. But for me, personally, Mega Man 1-6 feel like the exact same game.
If I had nostalgia for the series, I can see how it could mean more to me, but I really don't, so it doesn't, so the base games feel really shallow. The same could be said for many NES games, though, TBH. There wasn't really much they could do with the games then, and a lot came from quarter-eating arcade machines.
So that's where I'm coming from. I don't mean to attack someone's Mega Man vision, but for me, coming at the games from now, after having played MM3 and MMX-X3, I don't have a particularly charitable impression of the early games. That doesn't mean you can't or don't. It just means that's where I'm coming from when I look at Mega Man.
Kalnaur on
I make art things! deviantART:Kalnaur ::: Origin: Kalnaur ::: UPlay: Kalnaur
SteevLWhat can I do for you?Registered Userregular
I didn't think I'd be posting anything else about MercurySteam in here, but they just did a lengthy interview with EuroGamer all about Lords of Shadow. It's an interesting read, and they say LoS2 still sold pretty well, although not as good as the first game.
I absolutely loved the first one. Played the hell out of it. Got the platinum trophy. It was probably my favorite game that came out that year.
I played the demo of LoS2, and it was so radically different in terms of combat style, pacing, and just general feel that it felt like a different game, rather than a sequel. Needless to say, I was promptly un-sold on the sequel by the demo, and so I've never even played the full retail version of LoS2. Maybe it was good. I don't know. The demo did a very good job of turning me off to it.
To me, it felt a little too much like Devil May Cry, which is not what I was looking for in that game.
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SteevLWhat can I do for you?Registered Userregular
To me, the combat felt pretty much the same as LoS, just a little more polished. I didn't feel like that was LoS2's main problem.
For me, the problem was the clumsily-told story. The world design was also not the greatest.
I absolutely loved the first one. Played the hell out of it. Got the platinum trophy. It was probably my favorite game that came out that year.
I played the demo of LoS2, and it was so radically different in terms of combat style, pacing, and just general feel that it felt like a different game, rather than a sequel. Needless to say, I was promptly un-sold on the sequel by the demo, and so I've never even played the full retail version of LoS2. Maybe it was good. I don't know. The demo did a very good job of turning me off to it.
To me, it felt a little too much like Devil May Cry, which is not what I was looking for in that game.
LoS 1 is a criminally underrated game. It's moody, well-acted, with a ton of lore, a dash of fantasy, and an awesome combat system (especially when you unlock magic). Each stage has its own feeling, and there are a ton of moments where you're dwarfed by the scenery, which only adds to the feeling of it being you vs. the world. It's a legitimately haunting, memorable experience, one I recommend to just about everyone I talk to.
I absolutely loved the first one. Played the hell out of it. Got the platinum trophy. It was probably my favorite game that came out that year.
I played the demo of LoS2, and it was so radically different in terms of combat style, pacing, and just general feel that it felt like a different game, rather than a sequel. Needless to say, I was promptly un-sold on the sequel by the demo, and so I've never even played the full retail version of LoS2. Maybe it was good. I don't know. The demo did a very good job of turning me off to it.
To me, it felt a little too much like Devil May Cry, which is not what I was looking for in that game.
LoS 1 is a criminally underrated game. It's moody, well-acted, with a ton of lore, a dash of fantasy, and an awesome combat system (especially when you unlock magic). Each stage has its own feeling, and there are a ton of moments where you're dwarfed by the scenery, which only adds to the feeling of it being you vs. the world. It's a legitimately haunting, memorable experience, one I recommend to just about everyone I talk to.
Which makes it doubly disappointing that LoS2 was poop from a butt.
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mastertheheroProfessional Video Editor & Book AuthorRegistered Userregular
Every time I hear about LoS2 I die a little on the inside. Such great potential, such fun combat, yet an utter failure in game design and narrative. The intro to LoS2 is so misleading. You think you're in for this epic adventure filled with titans and incredible new locales, instead it's just a giant factory with weird transitions into the past that made no sense. Turn into rats? Uh, sure ok. Can I finally fight the golems with machine guns? Uh no, they just mysteriously vanish from the game.
I didn't play LoS 2, but between being underwhelmed by the demo, and hearing unanimous less than kind things about the entire game, I feel like I dodged a bullet. Which is sad because the 1st game was so good.
I would've loved to have seen Dracula on a quest to end his own life, taking place across time and geography. Revisiting memorable locations from the first game, and visiting new ones. Haunted and taunted by Patrick Stuart the entire time.
There's nothing wrong with repeatng a formula if it works. LoS 1's slow burn and staccato pacing (several long stages, some short ones, and a couple that's just a boss fight, which was awesome) worked, IMO. The journey aspect worked.
KalnaurI See Rain . . .Centralia, WARegistered Userregular
The only thing I actually didn't like about LoS was the need to re-traverse old areas with new powers. While common for the series, LoS took more from the originals where backtracking was not there at all, and while I disliked the chapter format, it worked in distilling the feeling like you can't rewrite the story of Gabriel's life. I feel like having to retread old stages stole some of that feeling of only being able to go one direction, forward, inexorably.
Mirror of Fate, it made more sense to have castle traversal similar to the Igavanias. And LoS2 I have in the Steam library, but haven't played yet.
I make art things! deviantART:Kalnaur ::: Origin: Kalnaur ::: UPlay: Kalnaur
The delay is largely due to the huge amount of money they got, and their desire to actually put in all that extra content at release.
Interesting quote on Inti:
“If you look at what you saw here, that's some of Inti, and some of us. But if you looked at the demo that out at E3 that everybody liked, that was Inti's quality bar that they put forward and made. They are able to come out with high quality,” Iga explained. “However, to your point, one of the issues is that their style of building on a game, while it does tend to come up with high quality when they spend the time on it, they don't necessarily have the true understanding of how to procedurally use the best tools in Unreal. Without being able to use those, you can't create the game in the most efficient manner that you need to.”
“While we were working together to make sure it had everything in it, it was quite clear that we needed to bring in another team that is able to take that procedural know-how to be able to take something, copy it, use some random generation to populate an area in a more computer-driven way rather than people doing it all by hand,” he said. “Without doing that, just the sheer size of what we're trying to create would never be done on time. So bringing in someone to help like that is definitely necessary to make sure that we're going to make the game at the right quality, but also hitting this new timeline.”
Iga acknowledged that once a new studio comes on board, Inti Creates role in making Bloodstained will be reduced because they aren’t making the procedural pieces of the game.
And some waffling about whether or not the Wii U port will happen. Given the game's been pushed back to 2018 and Nintendo will literally stop selling the Wii U by March (if not before), I can understand if that version gets canned.
Posts
Personally I didn't hate the game as much as some people, but I think the difference is MN9 was delayed because of a single bug with the multiplayer portion that caused it to fail certification. For a lot of people, the thought is "ok, so release it and patch the multiplayer in later." I always understood why this wasn't really feasible (for marketing reasons among other things). That said, for as long as the game was delayed trying to fix apparently this single bug, it was released in kind of a rough state. Unlike Bloodstained where the delays are to improve the game, it's pretty obvious MN9 was not touched during that delay period other than fixing the specific problems. If they had been able to use that time to fine tune things - maybe spice up the graphics a bit, tune level difficulty, make the Wii U version less crappy, etc, I think people would have been a lot more forgiving.
Granted, I don't think they had the money to keep staff working on it during that time so I can see why they didn't, but I also don't think most people get that, especially when the game made as much as it did on Kickstarter.
Oh, also, there's the fact that ever since Deep Silver became involved they became secretive as shit and even waited to comment on the many delay rumors for quite awhile. That's the kind of thing I think that got people to turn on the game. Bloodstained has been really good about keeping backers in the loop I feel.
I feel like hype is a thing for those much younger than me, by, like, 10-15 years (for reference, I'm 37 in a little over 2 months). Now, I just look around from time to time and see if anything's coming out that looks good. Hit up the threads for things every so often. And then I wait, and see how it comes along a few months later. And then forget about it again. Hype too often becomes obsession, and I'm just not up for that anymore.
That too. And announcing the cartoon (which I am guessing is not happening now)
Switch (JeffConser): SW-3353-5433-5137 Wii U: Skeldare - 3DS: 1848-1663-9345
PM Me if you add me!
Yeah I thought about that... Wii U will be long dead at that point. Wonder if they will move to NX?
Kickstarters in general should just adopt a new system for setting a release date. Take the date you're going to write down. Then, erase the month and just leave the year. Then add 1 to the year. There, there's the release date you should tell the people. Don't even reveal the month until preferebly when the game has gone gold and you're pressing discs or submitting final review code.
It can definitely be a crapshoot, but I've been pretty happy with the results of most of the Kickstarters I've contributed to, even when they were delayed. And it's rare that they ever come out on their projected date. It is definitely not for everyone!
My Backloggery
Yeah, I don't think I have regretted any, even MN9 (though maybe I gave them more money than I should have)
But isn't that early Mega Man to a T?
I'm sorry the game was a bad experience for you, Lucascraft. I can't say I feel the same way about the game, but I won't pretend that my experience is more valid.
I played Mega Man 3 as a kid. Only that one. Recently, I played through the rest of the base Mega Man through 6, and besides some small upgrades here and there, every game felt pretty much the same. Same bosses, same enemies, same everything. Without the nostalgia to carry it, my experience was that the games were fine, but they felt like the same game, in 6 different iterations.
Now, I found X and X2 to be at least different enough to say that both makes sense to exist in a series of games. Even if the justification was thin, it felt like there was a reason for that series to continue. But for me, personally, Mega Man 1-6 feel like the exact same game.
If I had nostalgia for the series, I can see how it could mean more to me, but I really don't, so it doesn't, so the base games feel really shallow. The same could be said for many NES games, though, TBH. There wasn't really much they could do with the games then, and a lot came from quarter-eating arcade machines.
So that's where I'm coming from. I don't mean to attack someone's Mega Man vision, but for me, coming at the games from now, after having played MM3 and MMX-X3, I don't have a particularly charitable impression of the early games. That doesn't mean you can't or don't. It just means that's where I'm coming from when I look at Mega Man.
My Backloggery
I played the demo of LoS2, and it was so radically different in terms of combat style, pacing, and just general feel that it felt like a different game, rather than a sequel. Needless to say, I was promptly un-sold on the sequel by the demo, and so I've never even played the full retail version of LoS2. Maybe it was good. I don't know. The demo did a very good job of turning me off to it.
To me, it felt a little too much like Devil May Cry, which is not what I was looking for in that game.
For me, the problem was the clumsily-told story. The world design was also not the greatest.
My Backloggery
https://themegas.bandcamp.com/album/the-belmonts-cassette-ep
LoS 1 is a criminally underrated game. It's moody, well-acted, with a ton of lore, a dash of fantasy, and an awesome combat system (especially when you unlock magic). Each stage has its own feeling, and there are a ton of moments where you're dwarfed by the scenery, which only adds to the feeling of it being you vs. the world. It's a legitimately haunting, memorable experience, one I recommend to just about everyone I talk to.
Which makes it doubly disappointing that LoS2 was poop from a butt.
Gets me angry just talking about it.
I would've loved to have seen Dracula on a quest to end his own life, taking place across time and geography. Revisiting memorable locations from the first game, and visiting new ones. Haunted and taunted by Patrick Stuart the entire time.
There's nothing wrong with repeatng a formula if it works. LoS 1's slow burn and staccato pacing (several long stages, some short ones, and a couple that's just a boss fight, which was awesome) worked, IMO. The journey aspect worked.
Mirror of Fate, it made more sense to have castle traversal similar to the Igavanias. And LoS2 I have in the Steam library, but haven't played yet.
I correctly assumed it wasn't, and gave it an "Awesome" before I even pressed play.
I have no idea who they are, so I'm not sure if this is good news or not.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_505_video_games
You'd be forgiven for not recognizing like 95% of what they've put out, though.
Curt Shilling's boondoggle was originally named Green Monster Games, and then 38 Studios. I can't find any listing for 535 Games.
http://www.ign.com/articles/2016/10/05/why-bloodstained-was-delayed-to-2018
The delay is largely due to the huge amount of money they got, and their desire to actually put in all that extra content at release.
Interesting quote on Inti:
And some waffling about whether or not the Wii U port will happen. Given the game's been pushed back to 2018 and Nintendo will literally stop selling the Wii U by March (if not before), I can understand if that version gets canned.