FortyTwostrongest man in the world The Land of Pleasant Living Registered Userregular
The Orioles lost two to the Cubs, some Orioles fans are losing their shit.
This is what 2012 did to the Orioles' fanbase; a bunch of new people (mostly Ravens fans), jumped on the bandwagon and now they shit themselves every time something bad happens.
The O's need to win 17 games, it doesn't particularly matter which 17 they win at this point.
I'm honestly a little annoyed with the cubs for winning these games because all they're doing is giving themselves a worse draft pick
That is what I am saying man - Arrieta should be trade bait in the offseason. He probably is not going to be the vanguard of the next great Cubs team, his value will never be higher.
I'm honestly a little annoyed with the cubs for winning these games because all they're doing is giving themselves a worse draft pick
That is what I am saying man - Arrieta should be trade bait in the offseason. He probably is not going to be the vanguard of the next great Cubs team, his value will never be higher.
He's not a free agent until 2018. Even if he isn't an ace, he's shaping up to be a solid middle of the rotation guy at worst, and they haven't made a habit of trading guys when they still have three years of team control
I'm honestly a little annoyed with the cubs for winning these games because all they're doing is giving themselves a worse draft pick
That is what I am saying man - Arrieta should be trade bait in the offseason. He probably is not going to be the vanguard of the next great Cubs team, his value will never be higher.
He's not a free agent until 2018. Even if he isn't an ace, he's shaping up to be a solid middle of the rotation guy at worst, and they haven't made a habit of trading guys when they still have three years of team control
Trust me Arrieta at his worst is barely get in the rotation. Again, I really hope he has finally put it all together, and I wouldn't be actively shopping him, but if the right deal came along...
Let's just say that I don't think Arrieta is a guy you are looking to build around, yet hr could be a guy that gets you a bigger piece.
FortyTwostrongest man in the world The Land of Pleasant Living Registered Userregular
I think the AL East essentially became a two-team "race" last night. The Yankees still holding on for dear life.
You have to think Toronto gets nuked in the offseason. Bautista and Encarnacion likely traded, Gibbons fired, Anthopoulos fired. It is going to be a blood bath.
I think the AL East essentially became a two-team "race" last night. The Yankees still holding on for dear life.
You have to think Toronto gets nuked in the offseason. Bautista and Encarnacion likely traded, Gibbons fired, Anthopoulos fired. It is going to be a blood bath.
They aren't trading Edwin, he just got a big team-friendly extension. Bautista might go, but he's also got a couple years left on a cheap deal. They have to re-sign Melky, but everyone else can pretty much fall into the ocean and not be missed, Especially Rasmus. 15 homers doesn't make up for a 30% strikeout rate.
1) Silence 2) Books must be returned by the last date shown 3) Do not interfere with the nature of causality
I think the AL East essentially became a two-team "race" last night. The Yankees still holding on for dear life.
You have to think Toronto gets nuked in the offseason. Bautista and Encarnacion likely traded, Gibbons fired, Anthopoulos fired. It is going to be a blood bath.
They aren't trading Edwin, he just got a big team-friendly extension. Bautista might go, but he's also got a couple years left on a cheap deal. They have to re-sign Melky, but everyone else can pretty much fall into the ocean and not be missed, Especially Rasmus. 15 homers doesn't make up for a 30% strikeout rate.
Thats just it, that team-friendly extension makes Edwin VERY valuable. The Jays farm system is crap right now and I don't think Edwin is going to be on the next division-winning Jays team. They gambled heavy the last two offseasons and busted badly, very badly. Bautista seems like he wants out of Toronto. I don't know how the GM and Gibbons keep their jobs after the last three seasons.
They didn't just fall short, they have been sub .500 team in a division that is much more competitive than it was a decade ago.
Right now the Jays have a choice, hold onto the vets and hope things break the right way next year, or blow it up and restock the farm system and upper minors and start playing for 2016-17.
Again, the Jays have been such a disaster this Summer, I don't know how this team survives it.
Colby Rasmus, sheeeet - I remember Orioles fans STRONGLY advocating that they trade Jones for Rasmus and when Colby ended up on the Jays oh the predictions of how the Orioles would rue the day, and the proclamations of "This is what a real organization does."
I don't think it's a good call to trade guys with long, team friendly contracts when they have a bunch of years of team control left. Having someone who can play every day in the majors and is already locked up under your team's control is worth a lot more than a prospect that might be able to do so in the future. It's not necessarily something you rule out entirely, no, but I doubt that contract is going to increase the quality of the offers enough to outweigh the value that player already provides.
Like, I've been seeing rumblings about the Mets working a trade for one of the Cubs' shortstops since they traded for Addison Russel, and it doesn't really make any sense. "The Cubs should trade them Castro! He's a perfect fit for the Mets!" Yeah, let's trade the established major league talent that still has offensive upside and like five more years of team control because the Mets might have a pitcher or something, that's a great call. Or one of these prospects that can probably play just about any position on the field except for catcher! Yeah!
I blame the New York media for this, though.
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FortyTwostrongest man in the world The Land of Pleasant Living Registered Userregular
I am trying to picture a how the situation in question #10 would arise.
I don't think it's a good call to trade guys with long, team friendly contracts when they have a bunch of years of team control left. Having someone who can play every day in the majors and is already locked up under your team's control is worth a lot more than a prospect that might be able to do so in the future. It's not necessarily something you rule out entirely, no, but I doubt that contract is going to increase the quality of the offers enough to outweigh the value that player already provides.
Like, I've been seeing rumblings about the Mets working a trade for one of the Cubs' shortstops since they traded for Addison Russel, and it doesn't really make any sense. "The Cubs should trade them Castro! He's a perfect fit for the Mets!" Yeah, let's trade the established major league talent that still has offensive upside and like five more years of team control because the Mets might have a pitcher or something, that's a great call. Or one of these prospects that can probably play just about any position on the field except for catcher! Yeah!
I blame the New York media for this, though.
Yeah, I don't think you should be trading your best players unless it's an expiring contract, especially Edwin, who's got four more years. There's no way you'd get the return for Edwin that would make that trade worthwhile, and the Jays have the secondary issue of Toronto being a "hockey first, everything else a distant second" town. If the Jays completely give up and trade away absolutely everyone, the fans simply won't go to the park. At the low point of the JP Ricciardi, they couldn't get 10k to watch Halladay in his prime because the team was the drizzling shits except for him. They had to work very, very hard to get the attendance back to the decent numbers it's now at, and Rogers isn't going to authorize a full rebuild at this point. If they tank completely out of the gate next year, they'll trade everyone they can, but a season where they finish above .500, were in first for a decent stretch, and could have theoretically competed if Rogers didn't pretend they don't have 90% of the money in Canada and could have just gone full Yankee at the the deadline or in the off-season, you can't just blow up the entire team when they technically exceeded pre-season expectations (i.e. none).
That said, there are a lot of guys that won't be back (Janssen, Santos, Morrow, Francisco, Colby, possibly Lind), and they really have to decide if Lawrie is ever actually going to play a full season and at what position, and go from there. The rotation isn't actually that bad for next year, it all depends on what whomever the new GM is does. And I don't know about firing AA, but Gibbons was the wrong choice from day one and should be fired the second the season ends.
1) Silence 2) Books must be returned by the last date shown 3) Do not interfere with the nature of causality
I don't think it's a good call to trade guys with long, team friendly contracts when they have a bunch of years of team control left. Having someone who can play every day in the majors and is already locked up under your team's control is worth a lot more than a prospect that might be able to do so in the future. It's not necessarily something you rule out entirely, no, but I doubt that contract is going to increase the quality of the offers enough to outweigh the value that player already provides.
Like, I've been seeing rumblings about the Mets working a trade for one of the Cubs' shortstops since they traded for Addison Russel, and it doesn't really make any sense. "The Cubs should trade them Castro! He's a perfect fit for the Mets!" Yeah, let's trade the established major league talent that still has offensive upside and like five more years of team control because the Mets might have a pitcher or something, that's a great call. Or one of these prospects that can probably play just about any position on the field except for catcher! Yeah!
I blame the New York media for this, though.
Yeah, I don't think you should be trading your best players unless it's an expiring contract, especially Edwin, who's got four more years. There's no way you'd get the return for Edwin that would make that trade worthwhile, and the Jays have the secondary issue of Toronto being a "hockey first, everything else a distant second" town. If the Jays completely give up and trade away absolutely everyone, the fans simply won't go to the park. At the low point of the JP Ricciardi, they couldn't get 10k to watch Halladay in his prime because the team was the drizzling shits except for him. They had to work very, very hard to get the attendance back to the decent numbers it's now at, and Rogers isn't going to authorize a full rebuild at this point. If they tank completely out of the gate next year, they'll trade everyone they can, but a season where they finish above .500, were in first for a decent stretch, and could have theoretically competed if Rogers didn't pretend they don't have 90% of the money in Canada and could have just gone full Yankee at the the deadline or in the off-season, you can't just blow up the entire team when they technically exceeded pre-season expectations (i.e. none).
That said, there are a lot of guys that won't be back (Janssen, Santos, Morrow, Francisco, Colby, possibly Lind), and they really have to decide if Lawrie is ever actually going to play a full season and at what position, and go from there. The rotation isn't actually that bad for next year, it all depends on what whomever the new GM is does. And I don't know about firing AA, but Gibbons was the wrong choice from day one and should be fired the second the season ends.
Going full rebuild is tough. But it might be the right thing to do. Like you said, so many people leaving next year; Lawrie has to be one of the most frustrating players in baseball. The Jays are in a real bind going forward, but they have to decide what the likelihood of real competition is in the near future. Edwin is signed through 2016 with a team option for 17. So for me the question remain is this: Will this team be challenging for a division title within that timeframe? What would need to be done to get there?
If they hold on to Edwin, I still think they might be better off trading Bautista. Reading quotes from him I get the impression that he is very frustrated and might want out.
What would you say needs to happen for the Jays to legitimately contend within the next two years?
AngryThe glory I had witnessedwas just a sleight of handRegistered Userregular
The Jays have one position player currently playing above single A.
Yeah, you don't want to trade good players on team friendly contracts, but you also need to work and get your minor league system back up to par so you have some form of independent sustainability.
But really, the Jays biggest problem is being owned by Rogers.
Anthopolous will get fired for swinging and missing at a championship run after he worked literal magic and purged out two of the worst contracts in baseball. People were all pissy with him after the trade deadline passed and nothing happened. Well, it's tough to make deals when your owners won't approve adding literally any money to the payroll.
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This is what 2012 did to the Orioles' fanbase; a bunch of new people (mostly Ravens fans), jumped on the bandwagon and now they shit themselves every time something bad happens.
The O's need to win 17 games, it doesn't particularly matter which 17 they win at this point.
Fortytwo's blog about fatherhood, life, and everything.
That is what I am saying man - Arrieta should be trade bait in the offseason. He probably is not going to be the vanguard of the next great Cubs team, his value will never be higher.
Fortytwo's blog about fatherhood, life, and everything.
He's not a free agent until 2018. Even if he isn't an ace, he's shaping up to be a solid middle of the rotation guy at worst, and they haven't made a habit of trading guys when they still have three years of team control
was odd
Trust me Arrieta at his worst is barely get in the rotation. Again, I really hope he has finally put it all together, and I wouldn't be actively shopping him, but if the right deal came along...
Let's just say that I don't think Arrieta is a guy you are looking to build around, yet hr could be a guy that gets you a bigger piece.
Fortytwo's blog about fatherhood, life, and everything.
Third straight blown weekend, Richards done for the year.
nothing like needing wins and getting literally the rays
! ! !
It's a good thing my team wasn't in contention.
I had a solid run, I am pretty happy with this season. A couple moves, a little luck, I will be better next year.
Fortytwo's blog about fatherhood, life, and everything.
You have to think Toronto gets nuked in the offseason. Bautista and Encarnacion likely traded, Gibbons fired, Anthopoulos fired. It is going to be a blood bath.
Fortytwo's blog about fatherhood, life, and everything.
weird
They aren't trading Edwin, he just got a big team-friendly extension. Bautista might go, but he's also got a couple years left on a cheap deal. They have to re-sign Melky, but everyone else can pretty much fall into the ocean and not be missed, Especially Rasmus. 15 homers doesn't make up for a 30% strikeout rate.
Thats just it, that team-friendly extension makes Edwin VERY valuable. The Jays farm system is crap right now and I don't think Edwin is going to be on the next division-winning Jays team. They gambled heavy the last two offseasons and busted badly, very badly. Bautista seems like he wants out of Toronto. I don't know how the GM and Gibbons keep their jobs after the last three seasons.
They didn't just fall short, they have been sub .500 team in a division that is much more competitive than it was a decade ago.
Right now the Jays have a choice, hold onto the vets and hope things break the right way next year, or blow it up and restock the farm system and upper minors and start playing for 2016-17.
Again, the Jays have been such a disaster this Summer, I don't know how this team survives it.
Colby Rasmus, sheeeet - I remember Orioles fans STRONGLY advocating that they trade Jones for Rasmus and when Colby ended up on the Jays oh the predictions of how the Orioles would rue the day, and the proclamations of "This is what a real organization does."
I do not miss those days.
Fortytwo's blog about fatherhood, life, and everything.
Question #2 infuriated me.
Like, I've been seeing rumblings about the Mets working a trade for one of the Cubs' shortstops since they traded for Addison Russel, and it doesn't really make any sense. "The Cubs should trade them Castro! He's a perfect fit for the Mets!" Yeah, let's trade the established major league talent that still has offensive upside and like five more years of team control because the Mets might have a pitcher or something, that's a great call. Or one of these prospects that can probably play just about any position on the field except for catcher! Yeah!
I blame the New York media for this, though.
Fortytwo's blog about fatherhood, life, and everything.
Yeah, I don't think you should be trading your best players unless it's an expiring contract, especially Edwin, who's got four more years. There's no way you'd get the return for Edwin that would make that trade worthwhile, and the Jays have the secondary issue of Toronto being a "hockey first, everything else a distant second" town. If the Jays completely give up and trade away absolutely everyone, the fans simply won't go to the park. At the low point of the JP Ricciardi, they couldn't get 10k to watch Halladay in his prime because the team was the drizzling shits except for him. They had to work very, very hard to get the attendance back to the decent numbers it's now at, and Rogers isn't going to authorize a full rebuild at this point. If they tank completely out of the gate next year, they'll trade everyone they can, but a season where they finish above .500, were in first for a decent stretch, and could have theoretically competed if Rogers didn't pretend they don't have 90% of the money in Canada and could have just gone full Yankee at the the deadline or in the off-season, you can't just blow up the entire team when they technically exceeded pre-season expectations (i.e. none).
That said, there are a lot of guys that won't be back (Janssen, Santos, Morrow, Francisco, Colby, possibly Lind), and they really have to decide if Lawrie is ever actually going to play a full season and at what position, and go from there. The rotation isn't actually that bad for next year, it all depends on what whomever the new GM is does. And I don't know about firing AA, but Gibbons was the wrong choice from day one and should be fired the second the season ends.
Going full rebuild is tough. But it might be the right thing to do. Like you said, so many people leaving next year; Lawrie has to be one of the most frustrating players in baseball. The Jays are in a real bind going forward, but they have to decide what the likelihood of real competition is in the near future. Edwin is signed through 2016 with a team option for 17. So for me the question remain is this: Will this team be challenging for a division title within that timeframe? What would need to be done to get there?
If they hold on to Edwin, I still think they might be better off trading Bautista. Reading quotes from him I get the impression that he is very frustrated and might want out.
What would you say needs to happen for the Jays to legitimately contend within the next two years?
Fortytwo's blog about fatherhood, life, and everything.
rude
Fortytwo's blog about fatherhood, life, and everything.
Yeah, you don't want to trade good players on team friendly contracts, but you also need to work and get your minor league system back up to par so you have some form of independent sustainability.
But really, the Jays biggest problem is being owned by Rogers.
Anthopolous will get fired for swinging and missing at a championship run after he worked literal magic and purged out two of the worst contracts in baseball. People were all pissy with him after the trade deadline passed and nothing happened. Well, it's tough to make deals when your owners won't approve adding literally any money to the payroll.