Well, since Ukraine is a successor state to the Soviet Union, they gain ownership to said Universitys and any other public buildings/institutions within their boarders.
But also I'm pretty sure Kiev is giving up on keeping control over the east and probably wants to secure their investments.
Shame the Russians had to stoke this shit.
I find it quite ironic that they didn't fund one of those universities(well, they payed salaries, of course, but that was pretty much it - no money for reconstruction or even money for expenses like heating the buildings during winter), but now they want to move it away.
But also I'm pretty sure Kiev is giving up on keeping control over the east and probably wants to secure their investments.
Shame the Russians had to stoke this shit.
I find it quite ironic that they didn't fund one of those universities(well, they payed salaries, of course, but that was pretty much it - no money for reconstruction or even money for expenses like heating the buildings during winter), but now they want to move it away.
Well, I doubt they mean to move the buildings.
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AManFromEarthLet's get to twerk!The King in the SwampRegistered Userregular
Here's the thing. You live in Ukraine. The Ukrainian government can do as they please within international norms and your appropriate response will be in next month's elections.
I think it's dumb to move a university, but I honestly can't say it's completely illogical for them to do so. It's their university.
Donetsk is not a country.
That can change! Maybe it should at some point, I don't know, but as it stands now them's da breaks.
A while back my state closed down a Department of Transportation depot because it's expense was too much of a liability. The equipment and jobs were either eliminated, or moved a couple hundred miles away.
We didn't even engage in armed rebellion!
Face it - when you rebel against the government, they move their assets out. It will happen anywhere in the world.
Hell, it wouldn't be entirely unreasonable for them to entirely shutter the University and move their people out. Because that's what happens when an area isn't safe and secure!
Here's the thing. You live in Ukraine. The Ukrainian government can do as they please within international norms and your appropriate response will be in next month's elections.
Considering that there is no opposition to current parties, my only response is to not vote.
As for the universities, they already lost a lot of students due to war, and they will lose more if they move it to some distant city.
Four people are dead as a playground is shelled in Donetsk. No word yet on which side pulled the trigger but I'd guess both will blame the other.
Yeah, they will. I actually noted that neither of them admits the collateral damage. At least rebels have the excuse that there is no reason for them to bomb their own city, though I'm not sure how much destruction near airport is due to their artillery.
But as for Ukrainians, it's out of question that their shells killed civilians. But I never heard any of them admiting that they inflict collateral damage. They just say that in all cases, it's rebels bombing cities in which they are situated. Sometimes they even try to bomb their own forces, apparently.
Here's the thing. You live in Ukraine. The Ukrainian government can do as they please within international norms and your appropriate response will be in next month's elections.
Considering that there is no opposition to current parties, my only response is to not vote.
As for the universities, they already lost a lot of students due to war, and they will lose more if they move it to some distant city.
I doubt anybody's going to university right now anyways.
Here's the thing. You live in Ukraine. The Ukrainian government can do as they please within international norms and your appropriate response will be in next month's elections.
Considering that there is no opposition to current parties, my only response is to not vote.
As for the universities, they already lost a lot of students due to war, and they will lose more if they move it to some distant city.
I doubt anybody's going to university right now anyways.
I did it today, though yeah, right now it's going to be a remote education. But judging by the way they said it, they want to move it there completely, no matter the outcome. Though I hope it's just tough words to decrease the support that rebels have here from civil population.
Why would they allow you to keep the universities if you are engaged in active revolt and bad faith negotiations?
Nah, it mostly annoys me that they say something like "You are totaly our territory, and you are our citizens currently being held by terrorists and we are going to reclaim you in no time" while at the same time they want to move out universities, destroy factories and stop paying pensions and salaries.
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AManFromEarthLet's get to twerk!The King in the SwampRegistered Userregular
Why would they allow you to keep the universities if you are engaged in active revolt and bad faith negotiations?
Nah, it mostly annoys me that they say something like "You are totaly our territory, and you are our citizens currently being held by terrorists and we are going to reclaim you in no time" while at the same time they want to move out universities, destroy factories and stop paying pensions and salaries.
Well the writing is on the wall re: frozen conflict status here. It's pretty clear that for the foreseeable future Kiev will not have de facto control over this area so pulling out resources to keep Russia from being able to use them is pretty par for the course.
I'd like to believe this gets resolved in a beneficial way for all parties, but the realist in me knows not to put it all on red.
The fights never stopped, there was no truce. Also, yesterday there was a counter-strike of sorts - two civil buildings got damaged about 500 or so meters from where I live. It wasn't that powerful, but their windows are out, which is bad to say the least, with impending winter. I do wonder, however, if they ever hit anything they're aiming at.
The fights never stopped, there was no truce. Also, yesterday there was a counter-strike of sorts - two civil buildings got damaged about 500 or so meters from where I live. It wasn't that powerful, but their windows are out, which is bad to say the least, with impending winter. I do wonder, however, if they ever hit anything they're aiming at.
How safe/possible would it be for you to travel to the other side of the country right now? If it was easy I would think you would've already done it, but I wouldn't want to be within 500 kilometers of what's going on, let alone 500 regular meters.
Well from what I've seen @Redthirst is more Russian than Ukrainian (idk how to phrase it well so I'm sorry if that offends, its not my intention)
Roots in the East, family and occupation there, speaks Russian primarily.
While I may have been very "Pro-Ukrainian" in here, I understand that refugees from the East, especially Russian speakers, might not recieve the warmest welcome in the West. And then theres packing up most of your life, leaving the rest to fate, and hoping to land on your feet in the west of the country.
Stuck between possible death and almost certian financial ruin. I wouldn't wish it on anyone.
Well, my pro-Russianess(is that even a word) toned down a lot, but the cituation looks bad either way. Also, Poroshenko said, jokingly or not, that he wants to make English into the second main language instead of Russian. Going to be fun watching them trying to speak it, when half of them can't even speak Ukrainian without mixing Russian words in there.
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AManFromEarthLet's get to twerk!The King in the SwampRegistered Userregular
Hahaha
what?
English?
I mean I guess it's the lingua franca of the age, but still.
Its probably more important as a neutral tongue since, right now, mandating either Ukrainian or Russian is fraught with political implications. The fact that is also objectively useful to know as the lingua franca is a bonus.
Give it a generation and even a half assed effort will do the trick. Obviously Ukraine is different from say Poland or Hungary but I understand that anyone schooled from the 1990s onwards is more likely to have English than Russian.
That being said, it would seem even without ethnic ties, Russian would be useful for Ukrainians who are not Russian aligned.
Freedom for the Northern Isles!
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TraceGNU Terry Pratchett; GNU Gus; GNU Carrie Fisher; GNU Adam WeRegistered Userregular
I mean I guess it's the lingua franca of the age, but still.
I read that as a clear "fuck you" to Putin.
It is. It is also a "fuck you" to ever one of Russian ethnicity. Especially considering that English was taught in schools, it just wasn't mandatory - some schools didn't learn it, and some taught another international language, like French or Spanish.
Well from what I've seen @Redthirst is more Russian than Ukrainian (idk how to phrase it well so I'm sorry if that offends, its not my intention)
Roots in the East, family and occupation there, speaks Russian primarily.
While I may have been very "Pro-Ukrainian" in here, I understand that refugees from the East, especially Russian speakers, might not recieve the warmest welcome in the West. And then theres packing up most of your life, leaving the rest to fate, and hoping to land on your feet in the west of the country.
Stuck between possible death and almost certian financial ruin. I wouldn't wish it on anyone.
Financial Ruin is hopefully temporary.
I'm surprised there aren't any "Get me the hell out of Ukraine" Kickstarters.
Well from what I've seen @Redthirst is more Russian than Ukrainian (idk how to phrase it well so I'm sorry if that offends, its not my intention)
Roots in the East, family and occupation there, speaks Russian primarily.
While I may have been very "Pro-Ukrainian" in here, I understand that refugees from the East, especially Russian speakers, might not recieve the warmest welcome in the West. And then theres packing up most of your life, leaving the rest to fate, and hoping to land on your feet in the west of the country.
Stuck between possible death and almost certian financial ruin. I wouldn't wish it on anyone.
Financial Ruin is hopefully temporary.
I'm surprised there aren't any "Get me the hell out of Ukraine" Kickstarters.
Well from what I've seen @Redthirst is more Russian than Ukrainian (idk how to phrase it well so I'm sorry if that offends, its not my intention)
Roots in the East, family and occupation there, speaks Russian primarily.
While I may have been very "Pro-Ukrainian" in here, I understand that refugees from the East, especially Russian speakers, might not recieve the warmest welcome in the West. And then theres packing up most of your life, leaving the rest to fate, and hoping to land on your feet in the west of the country.
Stuck between possible death and almost certian financial ruin. I wouldn't wish it on anyone.
Financial Ruin is hopefully temporary.
I'm surprised there aren't any "Get me the hell out of Ukraine" Kickstarters.
Well, my pro-Russianess(is that even a word) toned down a lot, but the cituation looks bad either way. Also, Poroshenko said, jokingly or not, that he wants to make English into the second main language instead of Russian. Going to be fun watching them trying to speak it, when half of them can't even speak Ukrainian without mixing Russian words in there.
Yeah, ideally both Russian and Ukrainian would be respected languages in Ukraine, especially is the east.
But the current situation has made that very difficult.
Well, my pro-Russianess(is that even a word) toned down a lot, but the cituation looks bad either way. Also, Poroshenko said, jokingly or not, that he wants to make English into the second main language instead of Russian. Going to be fun watching them trying to speak it, when half of them can't even speak Ukrainian without mixing Russian words in there.
Yeah, ideally both Russian and Ukrainian would be respected languages in Ukraine, especially is the east.
But the current situation has made that very difficult.
Frankly, a lot of the issues that the rebels have ostensibly been fighting for have been things which they could have achieved in parliament; recognition of russian as a second language seems like a no brainer and the concerns revolving antiquated industry could have been dealt with via investment from EU buisnesses.
I do understand that relations with the EU could see a flood of foreign products in Ukraine, as well as isolating Russian (who they export to).
If the West wants to help end this, saying that the Ukrainian government must respect the Russian language and promise economic aid to the nation; especially in rebuilding the East's industry.
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AManFromEarthLet's get to twerk!The King in the SwampRegistered Userregular
I do understand that relations with the EU could see a flood of foreign products in Ukraine, as well as isolating Russian (who they export to).
If the West wants to help end this, saying that the Ukrainian government must respect the Russian language and promise economic aid to the nation; especially in rebuilding the East's industry.
This is something we've been really bad at. It's easy to fall into the Russia As Supervillain trap, I think we should do more to show we actually do give a shit about the Russian minorities in eastern countries. It's not their fault that Stalin imported them to try to breed out the rest of the country.
This should also be applied to the Baltic nations, to stem off any attempts by the Russians to subvert their governments in the interest of "protecting Russians".
It costs us nothing but a small amount of our pride.
Well, my pro-Russianess(is that even a word) toned down a lot, but the cituation looks bad either way. Also, Poroshenko said, jokingly or not, that he wants to make English into the second main language instead of Russian. Going to be fun watching them trying to speak it, when half of them can't even speak Ukrainian without mixing Russian words in there.
Yeah, ideally both Russian and Ukrainian would be respected languages in Ukraine, especially is the east.
But the current situation has made that very difficult.
Frankly, a lot of the issues that the rebels have ostensibly been fighting for have been things which they could have achieved in parliament; recognition of russian as a second language seems like a no brainer and the concerns revolving antiquated industry could have been dealt with via investment from EU buisnesses.
Most of the issues the Rebels have said they are fighting for have been made less likely by their actions.
Well, my pro-Russianess(is that even a word) toned down a lot, but the cituation looks bad either way. Also, Poroshenko said, jokingly or not, that he wants to make English into the second main language instead of Russian. Going to be fun watching them trying to speak it, when half of them can't even speak Ukrainian without mixing Russian words in there.
Yeah, ideally both Russian and Ukrainian would be respected languages in Ukraine, especially is the east.
But the current situation has made that very difficult.
Frankly, a lot of the issues that the rebels have ostensibly been fighting for have been things which they could have achieved in parliament; recognition of russian as a second language seems like a no brainer and the concerns revolving antiquated industry could have been dealt with via investment from EU buisnesses.
Most of the issues the Rebels have said they are fighting for have been made less likely by their actions.
I'm talking about if they had used their words instead of their fists.
Well, my pro-Russianess(is that even a word) toned down a lot, but the cituation looks bad either way. Also, Poroshenko said, jokingly or not, that he wants to make English into the second main language instead of Russian. Going to be fun watching them trying to speak it, when half of them can't even speak Ukrainian without mixing Russian words in there.
Yeah, ideally both Russian and Ukrainian would be respected languages in Ukraine, especially is the east.
But the current situation has made that very difficult.
Frankly, a lot of the issues that the rebels have ostensibly been fighting for have been things which they could have achieved in parliament; recognition of russian as a second language seems like a no brainer and the concerns revolving antiquated industry could have been dealt with via investment from EU buisnesses.
Not really. Pretty much every president, when he was going to elections, was promising to make Russian into second language. It was never achieved. And don't forget that I'm talking about the times when Russia was a friendly neighbor. And our parlament is not the place where you can resolve issues like these. Our parlament works like this: one party proposes something. Their opponenets will vote against it, no matter if it's good for the country or not. So the only way one party can do something is to gather enough people to control the parlament(226 people as of now). If your party has 226 people under their control, then you can do whatever you want, unless you want to change Consitution. In that case you will need more people.
So yeah, if we didn't recieve Russian as second official language when we had president from East and parlament pretty much under his control, then there is no chance that we would have it right now. Apparently it's a lot easier for current government to continue civil war than to resolve some of the core issues here. Not sure it will work though, considering how far it went.
I do understand that relations with the EU could see a flood of foreign products in Ukraine, as well as isolating Russian (who they export to).
If the West wants to help end this, saying that the Ukrainian government must respect the Russian language and promise economic aid to the nation; especially in rebuilding the East's industry.
This is something we've been really bad at. It's easy to fall into the Russia As Supervillain trap, I think we should do more to show we actually do give a shit about the Russian minorities in eastern countries. It's not their fault that Stalin imported them to try to breed out the rest of the country.
This should also be applied to the Baltic nations, to stem off any attempts by the Russians to subvert their governments in the interest of "protecting Russians".
It costs us nothing but a small amount of our pride.
Good luck getting the Estonians etc. to agree to metaphorically take it up the ass and agree to legitimize the results of forced russification.
[Our parlament works like this: one party proposes something. Their opponenets will vote against it, no matter if it's good for the country or not. So the only way one party can do something is to gather enough people to control the parlament
Posts
I find it quite ironic that they didn't fund one of those universities(well, they payed salaries, of course, but that was pretty much it - no money for reconstruction or even money for expenses like heating the buildings during winter), but now they want to move it away.
Well, I doubt they mean to move the buildings.
I think it's dumb to move a university, but I honestly can't say it's completely illogical for them to do so. It's their university.
Donetsk is not a country.
That can change! Maybe it should at some point, I don't know, but as it stands now them's da breaks.
We didn't even engage in armed rebellion!
Face it - when you rebel against the government, they move their assets out. It will happen anywhere in the world.
Hell, it wouldn't be entirely unreasonable for them to entirely shutter the University and move their people out. Because that's what happens when an area isn't safe and secure!
Considering that there is no opposition to current parties, my only response is to not vote.
As for the universities, they already lost a lot of students due to war, and they will lose more if they move it to some distant city.
Yeah, they will. I actually noted that neither of them admits the collateral damage. At least rebels have the excuse that there is no reason for them to bomb their own city, though I'm not sure how much destruction near airport is due to their artillery.
But as for Ukrainians, it's out of question that their shells killed civilians. But I never heard any of them admiting that they inflict collateral damage. They just say that in all cases, it's rebels bombing cities in which they are situated. Sometimes they even try to bomb their own forces, apparently.
I doubt anybody's going to university right now anyways.
I did it today, though yeah, right now it's going to be a remote education. But judging by the way they said it, they want to move it there completely, no matter the outcome. Though I hope it's just tough words to decrease the support that rebels have here from civil population.
Nah, it mostly annoys me that they say something like "You are totaly our territory, and you are our citizens currently being held by terrorists and we are going to reclaim you in no time" while at the same time they want to move out universities, destroy factories and stop paying pensions and salaries.
Well the writing is on the wall re: frozen conflict status here. It's pretty clear that for the foreseeable future Kiev will not have de facto control over this area so pulling out resources to keep Russia from being able to use them is pretty par for the course.
I'd like to believe this gets resolved in a beneficial way for all parties, but the realist in me knows not to put it all on red.
Rebels push to take Donetsk airport http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-29455133
In all honesty, the fighting never stopped at the airport. They've been taking that area bit by bit since August.
How safe/possible would it be for you to travel to the other side of the country right now? If it was easy I would think you would've already done it, but I wouldn't want to be within 500 kilometers of what's going on, let alone 500 regular meters.
twitch.tv/Taramoor
@TaramoorPlays
Taramoor on Youtube
Roots in the East, family and occupation there, speaks Russian primarily.
While I may have been very "Pro-Ukrainian" in here, I understand that refugees from the East, especially Russian speakers, might not recieve the warmest welcome in the West. And then theres packing up most of your life, leaving the rest to fate, and hoping to land on your feet in the west of the country.
Stuck between possible death and almost certian financial ruin. I wouldn't wish it on anyone.
what?
English?
I mean I guess it's the lingua franca of the age, but still.
That being said, it would seem even without ethnic ties, Russian would be useful for Ukrainians who are not Russian aligned.
I read that as a clear "fuck you" to Putin.
It is. It is also a "fuck you" to ever one of Russian ethnicity. Especially considering that English was taught in schools, it just wasn't mandatory - some schools didn't learn it, and some taught another international language, like French or Spanish.
Financial Ruin is hopefully temporary.
I'm surprised there aren't any "Get me the hell out of Ukraine" Kickstarters.
twitch.tv/Taramoor
@TaramoorPlays
Taramoor on Youtube
The hell would the rewards be?
A sense of having helped someone for some
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
Yeah, ideally both Russian and Ukrainian would be respected languages in Ukraine, especially is the east.
But the current situation has made that very difficult.
Frankly, a lot of the issues that the rebels have ostensibly been fighting for have been things which they could have achieved in parliament; recognition of russian as a second language seems like a no brainer and the concerns revolving antiquated industry could have been dealt with via investment from EU buisnesses.
If the West wants to help end this, saying that the Ukrainian government must respect the Russian language and promise economic aid to the nation; especially in rebuilding the East's industry.
This is something we've been really bad at. It's easy to fall into the Russia As Supervillain trap, I think we should do more to show we actually do give a shit about the Russian minorities in eastern countries. It's not their fault that Stalin imported them to try to breed out the rest of the country.
This should also be applied to the Baltic nations, to stem off any attempts by the Russians to subvert their governments in the interest of "protecting Russians".
It costs us nothing but a small amount of our pride.
Most of the issues the Rebels have said they are fighting for have been made less likely by their actions.
I'm talking about if they had used their words instead of their fists.
http://mobile.businessweek.com/articles/2014-10-02/russians-unhappy-with-putin-like-latvia-for-move-abroad
So yeah, if we didn't recieve Russian as second official language when we had president from East and parlament pretty much under his control, then there is no chance that we would have it right now. Apparently it's a lot easier for current government to continue civil war than to resolve some of the core issues here. Not sure it will work though, considering how far it went.
Good luck getting the Estonians etc. to agree to metaphorically take it up the ass and agree to legitimize the results of forced russification.