[Fargo TV thread] Season 3 I can Help

Preacher

This is a thread for discussing the FX series that just debuted last night named after the Cohen Brothers movie though it is not a tv adapation of the movie.

So discuss this Fargo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jFU0r0xG_c

Not this Fargo.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpdOXSEkvO8

As far as my thought about last nights episodes. Spoilers for people who didn't want to stay up till 11:30 on a work night.

Man what an escalation of events from a guy who is a hen picked loser, to a wife murdering psycho. Clearly Billy Bob's characters influence is corrupting. I mean shortly after meeting Freeman's character the guy is punching his brother out and murdering his wife. There is just something off about Thornton, he disappeared in the basement, seemingly showed up in Duluth immediately thereafter (or was that supposed to be before because I swear it seemed like a precursor to the events in the show, but it showed up at the end).

Loved the lady cop though, she was delightful. Bilbo is horrible though, such a bad person.

Also this whole exchange was great, but I really loved this particular bit.



The line about them removing dragons from maps not removing the dragons was equally as great

Captain Tragedy

Yeah, I really dug the first episode.

I was pretty shocked by Nygard killing his wife. The show to that point seemed to be setting up Freeman as a normal, put-upon, fairly decent person who got caught up in something he didn't directly cause, since Malvo took it upon himself to kill his bully without Nygard actually agreeing (kinda like the Hitchcock version of Strangers on a Train). And then...the hammer. And it wasn't "he hit her in the heat of passion" and then felt bad and tried to save her before she died, he just kept hitting her over and over...

And Billy Bob Thorton as a agent of chaos is pretty great.

SyphonBlue

They made a Fargo TV show?

Preacher

Yes, though so far its not actually in Fargo at all.

With regards to your spoiler Captain.

AV club kind of hit the nail on the head (har har) about Nygard killing his wife being something the audience wanted until we didn't. Like we wanted him to do something to her, and then when he strikes her with the hammer we're shown here from a first person perspective, as if telling the audience "is this not what you wanted?" And then we see her fall on her with the hammer striking her over and over as if to say "no no its not."

Elki

Oh, I didn't know this already started airing. I'll check it out.

Captain Tragedy

Other than the first scene where William H. Macy meets up with the kidnappers, the movie didn't take place in Fargo either.

Preacher

True, so its keeping that going for it.

Harbringer197

The show seems interesting....I feel sorry for Nygaard

Up until he bludgeoned his wife heck up until that point he was seemingly on the road to actually asserting himself. Would what he did be considered 1st or 2nd degree murder?

Also:

I wonder how that M249 SAW will play into the story?

Preacher

Well the degree of murder depends on the state, I have no idea with the midwest. Probably could claim heat of the moment if arrested at the time when Vern was going to, now though? Now it will look premeditated.

I'm guessing the Saw won't factor in, it was like an obvious chekov's gun moment, and he broke it.

Sam

http://www.popmatters.com/review/180822-fargo-martin-freeman-and-billy-bob-thornton-in-snow/

“Some roads you shouldn’t go down.”
—Lorne Malvo (Billy Bob Thornton)

On a dark, snowbound street in industrial Duluth, Minnesota, an earnest police officer Gus Grimly (Colin Hanks) pulls over a car for speeding and reckless driving. It seems a routine part of his job, but behind the mundanity lurks the specter of danger and violence. The car is driven by an intense, rootless criminal-for-hire Malvo (Billy Bob Thornton) with the blood of no less than two (and arguably three) dead men already on his hands.

He doesn’t much feel like getting into an altercation with this mild-mannered Midwesterner, badge or no badge, and calmly asks the officer to return to his car and be on his way home to his daughter (he can hear her on a walkie-talkie in the squad car). He eventually asks him, with Manichean literality, to step into the light instead of stepping into the darkness.

This is the scene that ends the premiere episode of Fargo, a ten-part television re-envisioning of Joel and Ethan Coen’s film. Written by Noah Hawley and directed by Adam Bernstein, with the Coens lending their blessing with an executive producer credit, the television show is also set in Minnesota and also offers a tale of criminals and brutality, an off-kilter tone, and, as the scene between Malvo and Grimly demonstrates, a stark depiction of moral choices. What it doesn’t share are the original characters and, most unfortunately, the movie’s mix of wit and chill.

While the TV Fargo goes down its own solitary snow-swept roads, its sprawling cast of characters featuring proxies for the film’s iconic figures. Frances McDormand’s perky Marg Gunderson has a spiritual heir in Deputy Molly Solverson (Allison Tolman), a small-town cop’s daughter with keen investigative skills. There’s also a beaten down, middle-aged man who winds up way over his head in the world of crime.

The show’s version of William H. Macy’s sad-sack Jerry Lundegaard is Lester Nygaard (Martin Freeman), an insurance salesman belittled by his wife (Kelly Holden Bashar), overshadowed by his younger brother (Joshua Close), and even bullied as an adult by his high school tormentor, now the successful owner of a trucking company. A chance hospital waiting room meeting between Nygaard and Malvo sets in motion a bloody series of killings.

As the show begins with the same facetious “true story” disclaimer as the movie, we’re reminded that it was always going to be hard for this version to seem like anything more than Coen Brothers fan-fic. But this Fargo is too often tedious, a bit of a surprise considering the talent assembled here. Freeman’s Lester is a nervous everyman with an impeccably rendered Minnesotan accent. Thornton hasn’t mustered this much twinkle-eyed malevolence since Bad Santa at least; Malvo is loads of dark fun, too easily manipulating every other individual he meets. And Tolman’s big eyes convey intelligence as well as bafflement at the eccentricity around her, not quite protected by her bulky parka.

If the characters resemble their precursors visually, so too does their environment, its Bemidji, MInnesota recalling both the snowy vistas of Roger Deakins’ cinematography and the middle-class trappings of the Coens’ richly, drolly imagined regional setting. The show was shot in Calgary, Alberta, Canada, as apt a substitute for the real Minnesota as you could ask for, if you’ve made up your mind to ask for a substitute. (Even the Coens ended up having to shoot in North Dakota to get the snowscapes they envisioned, after all.) The series’ second episode concludes with a superb sequence of a body disposal on a frozen lake that is shot, scored, and choreographed like a very fine deleted scene from the movie.

With all the homages and borrowings, we might wonder why the TV Fargo is so frustratingly uneven and generally, weirdly dull? Hawley’s film noir plot is reasonably Coen-esque in its twists and misunderstandings and character-motivated actions. But it can’t match the extremely particular style of the inimitable and unpredictable Coens, a target Hawley apparently chose for himself and misses by a country mile.

Hawley’s Fargo is an anthology-style story that will evidently resolve at the end of the last episode (he has called it “a 10-hour movie”). Following the introductory episode, the narrative quickly expands beyond Solverson’s investigation of Nygaard’s role in the murders to include Malvo smoking out a blackmail plot against a self-promoting regional supermarket magnate (Oliver Platt) and a pair of toughs (Russell Harvard and Adam Goldberg) arriving in town with an ominous mission.

But something’s missing. Fargo’s predominant problem is that it is resolutely, ineptly unfunny. The Coens punctuated their chronicle of chilly despondence and deep immorality with shafts of hopeful decency, as well as their signature quirky humor. Hawley takes a more generic approach, too familiar in TV, relying on slapstick or sometimes, on the actors’ comic abilities to find the laughs in his words, but the result is inconsistent. It’s as if, like so many casual viewers of the original film, the show’s creative team considered the Minnesota Nice accent itself to be the source of the comedy, rather than what the characters were saying.

Like Malvo’s odious but also somewhat facile contrast between light and darkness, this seems a superficial gloss rather than complex storytelling, a thin layer of snow instead of a deep-packed remnant of a creative blizzard.

/

Captain Tragedy

Wow, you managed to find the literally only negative review of the show.

metaghost

The bully's children were, too me, indicative of what that review is getting at with regards to the show's fairly inept attempts at humor, along with gross misuse of Bob Odenkirk's comedic talents during his 20 seconds of screentime.

The premier wasn't bad, but I can't say I'm particularly curious about what will happen in future installments.

Sam

Captain Tragedy wrote: »

Wow, you managed to find the literally only negative review of the show.

http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/television/2014/04/fx_s_tv_series_fargo_starring_martin_freeman_and_billy_bob_thornton_reviewed.html

Captain Tragedy

So...do you agree with the reviews? Or not? You posted the first review (and the now the second) without any comment of your own, so i wasn't sure if you were going 1) I saw the show and this review is how I feel, or 2) I haven't seen it, but this review is negative, so should I not check it out?, or 3) I haven't seen it, but I found a review that confirms my notion of what a TV series spun-off from Fargo would be so I won't bother.

Sam

1

i think it's extremely derivative to the point of being exploitive. not so much derivative of the original Fargo as the overall trend in suburban escapist sociopath fantasy, except this is just paper thin.

it was like people in the FX boardroom were reading all the Skyler White hate comments and a collective lightbulb went off in their heads.

HappylilElf

Preacher wrote: »

Yes, though so far its not actually in Fargo at all.

Neither was the movie :P

Preacher

I'm glad that review you posted without a spoiler tag no only includes spoilers for the current episode but future ones not aired. Good job.

BloodySloth

Sam wrote: »

1

i think it's extremely derivative to the point of being exploitive. not so much derivative of the original Fargo as the overall trend in suburban escapist sociopath fantasy, except this is just paper thin.

it was like people in the FX boardroom were reading all the Skyler White hate comments and a collective lightbulb went off in their heads.

I don't really feel that's fair. I think that if you really believe Fargo is setting up an escapist fantasy, then either you or I are really reading the first episode wrong, because I thought they went the extra mile to make his final step into the world of crime really horrifying for both the main character and the audience.

Harbringer197

I always felt that the Fargo movie much like the godfather was making the viewer a witness to something horrible. If you take away from it gee these people are cool then you've missed the point. same goes for breaking bad even more so because Massive spoilers

The only way for walter white to redeem himself is to kill himself

Its more a tale of well you got yourself into this mess time to see what you make out of it.

hell the main good guy who you're supposed to root for in the Fargo tv show is the exact opposite of pretty much every lead role.

she's not the prettiest cop or the smartest cop definitely not the strongest but she has common sense.

BloodySloth

I think they even toy with the idea that people might want or expect what Sam is talking about, but they pull away from it pretty clearly each time.

Broadly,with the entire idea that Nygaard could become more free and powerful by taking charge in his life the way Thornton's character mentions. He ends up destroying the washing machine, is incapable of expressing the "being an ape" ideal that Thornton monologued over, and at the end of the day, he's literally more trapped and helpless after killing his wife than he was before.

As a more specific, wink-and-nod element, they have that moment when he's staring at the "what if everyone else is wrong?" poster, and you think he might be coming to some sort of revelation, but nope, he was just staring at the wall, trying to muster up the courage to knock himself out and hopefully dodge all consequence, the way he has presumably done so his entire life.

Trace

Totally stealing "What if I have a fish?" for when I find myself in a motel.

also


aww jeez aww jeez aww jeez aww jeez

Preacher

BloodySloth wrote: »

I think they even toy with the idea that people might want or expect what Sam is talking about, but they pull away from it pretty clearly each time.

Broadly,with the entire idea that Nygaard could become more free and powerful by taking charge in his life the way Thornton's character mentions. He ends up destroying the washing machine, is incapable of expressing the "being an ape" ideal that Thornton monologued over, and at the end of the day, he's literally more trapped and helpless after killing his wife than he was before.

As a more specific, wink-and-nod element, they have that moment when he's staring at the "what if everyone else is wrong?" poster, and you think he might be coming to some sort of revelation, but nope, he was just staring at the wall, trying to muster up the courage to knock himself out and hopefully dodge all consequence, the way he has presumably done so his entire life.

Yeah it seems like only possibly the female now chief and possibly Colin Hanks are people to root for. Malvo is doing horrible things to amuse himself and Lester is a weasel.

Harbringer197

I must admit

Malvo convincing the kid to take a leak in his bosses car was pretty hilarious.

Preacher

Last night's episode wasn't as explosive as last weeks, but it didn't really need to be, it was more of a descending action for us to see how these characters work/don't work within their world. Still I wish I spoke ASL, I'm pretty sure they weren't just saying what they claimed to be saying.

Captain Tragedy

This may be a network note situation, but the show doesn't seem to have a lot of faith in the audience remembering things/putting 2 and 2 together. I mean, flashing back/cutaways to the pilot at times wasn't that bad (though still unnecessary), but flashing back to the previous scene that occurred less than 5 minutes ago to show "hey remember we met a guy who had on lots of bronzer? Maybe he's connected to this bronzer-like smudge on the note!" seemed vaguely intelligence-insulting.

Preacher

I dunno man people are pretty dumb. Or at least that's what I always assumed 24 was telling me when they'd recap the first hours of a two hour premier event...

y2jake215

they really named the marge character "solverson"?

i like the show so far but that seems way too on the nose

Rex Beavers

I'm digging the show. I hope they have some kind of plausible explanation later for why Malvo seems to live his like its GTA for real and gets away with it.

I think my favorite scene so far is

the cop peacing the fuck out when he pulls Malvo over and he gets that terrifying speech. I like that we as viewers know that he probably avoided dying, but anyone he tells that story to probably wouldn't understand.

Joshmvii

I'm really enjoying this show, but if you asked me to say how good it is I don't know what I could say. I think it's because True Detective is the most recent new show I've watched, but like I just can't put my finger on how good Fargo is. All I really know is my wife and I have enjoyed watching each new episode as soon as we can, so that's good enough for me.

Preacher

Ultimately the end will justify how well the show is regarded. I'm enjoying it (well as much as one can after seeing a dog get killed and then that same week having to put down my own dog), but if its got a shitty ending I know that will color the journey. Much the same way the Bridge was interesting to start but as the show unraveled it got worse and worse.

Harbringer197

yeah the show pretty good.

also

was that brief case that guy found in the snow from the Fargo movie? Cause i remember that sorta being a thing I can't remember

and the whole sign language argument was a really well done scene.

Preacher

It was indeed from the movie, which ties this show to the movie directly.

The sign language thing had me rolling.

"Who stares at people like that."

"mormons."

SiliconStew

Preacher wrote: »

It was indeed from the movie, which ties this show to the movie directly.

Stavros' icescraper painting in his office doesn't seem so out of place now.

Bubby

Tonight's episode was great, and the preview for the back half looks nuts.

Egos

Joshmvii wrote: »

I'm really enjoying this show, but if you asked me to say how good it is I don't know what I could say. I think it's because True Detective is the most recent new show I've watched, but like I just can't put my finger on how good Fargo is. All I really know is my wife and I have enjoyed watching each new episode as soon as we can, so that's good enough for me.

I thought the first episode was great. Since then I feel like it hasn't maintained quite the same level of awesome. That said I do like Mr. Numbers and Mr. Wrench.

C2B

That last episode

Preacher

Its a humdinger.

At least malvo didn't shh shhh shh Goldberg as he slit his throat.

Captain Tragedy

Glenn Howerton's character was such an unlikable idiot who everyone was expecting to die the second he joined up with Malvo, but that final sequence of him slowly arriving at his fate was amazingly brutal and sad.

Also, Molly better not be dead. (What have you wrought, success of Game of Thrones?) I doubt she is, but still.

Preacher

Yeah it was painful to watch Howerton's death like that, more so than anyone else on the show we got a slow mo death spiral.

I hope Molly isn't dead, and I hope that Gus is not the one who shot her, if only for Gus, poor Gus, he just wanted to be a mail man, and the only thing he delivered to Molly was a bullet.

I'm probably the only one, but fuck Lester's brother, guy is a prick if he goes down for all of Lester's awful, all the better.

Trace

all I can say is

aww jeeze

Captain Tragedy

I like how they set up the idea that Lester was going to have some sort guilt or remorse about what he was doing when he saw his brother's family's photo and focused on the kid...but, nope, just getting the idea to plant the gun on the son.