So much of the science in this movie was terrible, beyond movie science. I think it's a serious disservice to the Godzilla mythos to just treat a nuke like any other bomb after it goes off.
TheBlackWind on
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
So this movie was pretty great.
The creepiest scene was before the film, when they were advertising Klondike Bars in the style of a 70s porn.
I'm a bit hype for Godzilla 2 because if they go the DESTROY ALL MONSTER'S route, they can do a Muto exctinction event.
Which would be AMAZING.
I know Edwards says he wants to do a Destroy All Monsters inspired movie, but I don't see how that meshes with his desire for "restraint". What's he gonna do, trick people into thinking two monsters are gonna fight and then cut away several dozen times?
BTW, the art book specifically states that the MUTOs are mammals.
I'm a bit hype for Godzilla 2 because if they go the DESTROY ALL MONSTER'S route, they can do a Muto exctinction event.
Which would be AMAZING.
I know Edwards says he wants to do a Destroy All Monsters inspired movie, but I don't see how that meshes with his desire for "restraint". What's he gonna do, trick people into thinking two monsters are gonna fight and then cut away several dozen times?
BTW, the art book specifically states that the MUTOs are mammals.
I'm a bit hype for Godzilla 2 because if they go the DESTROY ALL MONSTER'S route, they can do a Muto exctinction event.
Which would be AMAZING.
I know Edwards says he wants to do a Destroy All Monsters inspired movie, but I don't see how that meshes with his desire for "restraint". What's he gonna do, trick people into thinking two monsters are gonna fight and then cut away several dozen times?
BTW, the art book specifically states that the MUTOs are mammals.
Oh it's totally easy to show restraint and be a Destroy all Monster's movie.
Open with a panicked intern with a Monarch labeled jacket rushing to boss. with dozen's of paper's showing increased seismic activity around the world.
Cure Monarch boss getting the thousand yard stare and saying "Get me the President"
The guts of the movie would be humans of different goverment's/organizations tracking down the exact locations of seismic activity, discovery, and global discussion on how to deal with all of these things awakening because of the events of the first Godzilla movie.
Cue big G surfacing and "attacking" different nuclear plants across the globe. At the last plant, after weeks of attacks he just sits and WAITS.
Muto's surface(most, if not all, redesign's of classic Godzilla monster's). All head to Godzilla's location.
MalReynoldsThe Hunter S Thompson of incredibly mild medicinesRegistered Userregular
Maybe Godzilla went after the MUTOs because they were eating up latent radiation on the Earth and it was fucking with his food source.
I also liked that he was portrayed as ridiculously put upon and bothered by having to fight.
"A new take on the epic fantasy genre... Darkly comic, relatable characters... twisted storyline."
"Readers who prefer tension and romance, Maledictions: The Offering, delivers... As serious YA fiction, I’ll give it five stars out of five. As a novel? Four and a half." - Liz Ellor My new novel: Maledictions: The Offering. Now in Paperback!
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Apothe0sisHave you ever questioned the nature of your reality?Registered Userregular
As I said in my post in the Movies thread- the entire ecology they were going for actually makes sense and is interesting if you just ignore everything Ken Watanabe ever says in the movie.
I would say that his character is working on partial information, so a lot of what he's saying is educated guesswork.
How educated - that's up to the viewer.
Then what narrative purpose does he serve? Next to none. The informational content of everything he did could have been provided by an army intelligence analyst saying "we don't know much about them. Except they're big and radioactive. And there's at least two kinds. And we couldn't kill them with nukes."
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Apothe0sisHave you ever questioned the nature of your reality?Registered Userregular
Does anyone know what the point of the pocketwatch/Hiroshima exchange was between Ken "Worst Scientist Ever" Watanabe and the CO from Alphas?
Watanabe was opposed to using the nukes because of Hiroshima.
But why does it relate? There aren't a lot of parallels other than the fact that Hiroshima was bombed and they're going to use nuclear weapons.
If the concerns where that it wouldn't work then the Hiroshima angle is irrelevant.
If he wants Godzilla to fight then the Hiroshima reference is likewise irrelevant.
If it's a principled concern about using Nuclear weapons then that's pretty much entirely defanged by the fact that they're moving it to an ostensibly safe distance, have evacuated the civilian population and the alternative is let gigantic unstoppable monsters from destroy everything.
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TraceGNU Terry Pratchett; GNU Gus; GNU Carrie Fisher; GNU Adam WeRegistered Userregular
Does anyone know what the point of the pocketwatch/Hiroshima exchange was between Ken "Worst Scientist Ever" Watanabe and the CO from Alphas?
Watanabe was opposed to using the nukes because of Hiroshima.
But why does it relate? There aren't a lot of parallels other than the fact that Hiroshima was bombed and they're going to use nuclear weapons.
If the concerns where that it wouldn't work then the Hiroshima angle is irrelevant.
If he wants Godzilla to fight then the Hiroshima reference is likewise irrelevant.
If it's a principled concern about using Nuclear weapons then that's pretty much entirely defanged by the fact that they're moving it to an ostensibly safe distance, have evacuated the civilian population and the alternative is let gigantic unstoppable monsters from destroy everything.
Because nukes are bad or something.
Also there is no way that boat managed to get that nuke to a safe distance in 5 minutes.
HamHamJ on
While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
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TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
No, see, Japan was nuked, substance
Bombarding you with guilt rays about the energy source that powered the computers to render the monster to lecture the audience.
It brings balance.
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AstaerethIn the belly of the beastRegistered Userregular
I really liked Alphas. But the cancellation is worth it for retroactively making that series incredibly dark. The second season asked the question, "Is protecting those we love worth compromising our morals?" and the cancellation answers, "No."
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Golden YakBurnished BovineThe sunny beaches of CanadaRegistered Userregular
Does anyone know what the point of the pocketwatch/Hiroshima exchange was between Ken "Worst Scientist Ever" Watanabe and the CO from Alphas?
Watanabe was opposed to using the nukes because of Hiroshima.
But why does it relate? There aren't a lot of parallels other than the fact that Hiroshima was bombed and they're going to use nuclear weapons.
It's human using atomic weapons vs. nature using atomic monsters.
We should let nature take its course. Because when has nature running unchecked ever been bad news for humanity?
Oh right, a whole bunch.
I wish they'd nuked Godzilla after he got his ass beat by the MUTOs, and the nuke re-charges him and gives him his atomic breath or something. I'd have been happy if that was the extent of the human involvement in the actual kaiju fighting.
Look, you guys are just consulting the wrong data.
This paper provides detailed answers to most of the questions you might have about monsters, monster scientists and the interaction between monsters and modern munitions.
As I said in my post in the Movies thread- the entire ecology they were going for actually makes sense and is interesting if you just ignore everything Ken Watanabe ever says in the movie.
I would say that his character is working on partial information, so a lot of what he's saying is educated guesswork.
How educated - that's up to the viewer.
Then what narrative purpose does he serve? Next to none. The informational content of everything he did could have been provided by an army intelligence analyst saying "we don't know much about them. Except they're big and radioactive. And there's at least two kinds. And we couldn't kill them with nukes."
He's an unreliable narrator, and the nature of his unreliability serves to underscore the movie's theme of nature being beyond mortal ken. This is a man who has spent his career studying these creatures, and it's clear that the best he can truly do is educated guesswork.
As I said in my post in the Movies thread- the entire ecology they were going for actually makes sense and is interesting if you just ignore everything Ken Watanabe ever says in the movie.
I would say that his character is working on partial information, so a lot of what he's saying is educated guesswork.
How educated - that's up to the viewer.
Then what narrative purpose does he serve? Next to none. The informational content of everything he did could have been provided by an army intelligence analyst saying "we don't know much about them. Except they're big and radioactive. And there's at least two kinds. And we couldn't kill them with nukes."
He's an unreliable narrator, and the nature of his unreliability serves to underscore the movie's theme of nature being beyond mortal ken. This is a man who has spent his career studying these creatures, and it's clear that the best he can truly do is educated guesswork.
He isn't. The fact that he's unreliable and provides Legolas-esque commentary doesn't make him an unreliable narrator.
The movie doesn't present him that way at all. His unreliability is a bug, not a feature.
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AstaerethIn the belly of the beastRegistered Userregular
He's not an unreliable narrator because he isn't a narrator.
But the fact that he says things like "He's a force for balance" does not mean we have to believe him, or that the movie intends us to.
I mentioned it in another thread, but it really felt like the human characters come from a different movie.
Maybe a movie with more of a message, maybe it was supposed to be more anti-nuclear, but it has all this threads and then just drops the instant Watanabe says "let them fight" to go all Tyrannosaurus Ex Machina. The bomb even goes off and everyone is fine so "eh who cares?"
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Apothe0sisHave you ever questioned the nature of your reality?Registered Userregular
He's not an unreliable narrator because he isn't a narrator.
But the fact that he says things like "He's a force for balance" does not mean we have to believe him, or that the movie intends us to.
The movie intends us to.
Yeah. He is literally magic Japanese dude who knows everything about giant monsters because he's from Japan.
Except he's frequently shown as flat out wrong.
He works for a data gathering body. The data they have is limited. They present this - it's especially underscored when they review both what Cranston said and his information; not only were they in the dark about looking for a return signal from the male MUTO, they didn't even consider the possibility.
Hell, there's even a scene where they thought the breakout of the MUTO was tied with Godzilla.
Right church, wrong pew.
He's not some sort of omniscient, mystical guy and the narrative supports that relatively well.
"A new take on the epic fantasy genre... Darkly comic, relatable characters... twisted storyline."
"Readers who prefer tension and romance, Maledictions: The Offering, delivers... As serious YA fiction, I’ll give it five stars out of five. As a novel? Four and a half." - Liz Ellor My new novel: Maledictions: The Offering. Now in Paperback!
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AbsoluteZeroThe new film by Quentin KoopantinoRegistered Userregular
In preparation for Godzilla 2014, I watched the American bastardization of the 1954 original followed by 2004's Godzilla Final Wars.
The original was pretty great save for all the Mr American Man shoehorned into it, and with expectations adjusted for 1950's film making. They showed a lot of restraint in revealing Godzilla in all his glory, but once they finally let him loose he raised hell and it was great. I was a little disappointed that they vaporized his ass, but they probably weren't thinking franchise. It was just a disaster movie, through and through, and a meditation on the atomic bomb.
Godzilla Final Wars was... good lord... it was poop from a butt. It was Power Rangers and The Matrix had a crack baby. It made me want to vomit my balls out my ass. The plot made zero fucking sense, the acting was awful, it was just about the campiest shit I've seen since Batman & Robin, though thank God(zilla) there were fewer puns. Some of the monster fighting was fun, but the way the suitmation actors ham it up really draws attention to the fact that these are guys in ridiculous rubber suits and not giant monsters. If they cut out everything except for Godzilla kicking ass, it would have been passable.
Godzilla 2014 however, was just about everything I ever wanted a Godzilla movie to be. It harkens back to the disaster film tone of the 1954 original, and keeps the campy bullshit to a minimum. I loved Bryan Cranston, and was hugely disappointed his character was killed off so early. It seems insane to me that he was essentially traded as the main character for his son. The actor who portrayed him was not offensively bad, just boring, and didn't have a whole lot to do except give us a front line soldier to follow into battle. His wife had literally nothing to do in the whole film except worry about her husband. It appeared she was a nurse or something, they could have created a plot for her that involved saving patients or something mildly interesting, or they could have just cut a lot of unneeded scenes of her looking shocked. They also could have cut a lot of the mission control scenes which only seem to exist to explain things to the audience that should have been obvious (we see a monster destroy Las Vegas, cut to the control room -- Captain, the MUTO is in Las Vegas!). They seemed to be pushing a plot thread with Ken Watanabe's character involving him trying to prevent the military from using an atomic bomb against the monsters, but that fizzled and went nowhere. They could have cut that bit all together, or actually made something of it. Finally, the monster carnage was just about the greatest fucking thing ever. The only thing they need for a sequel is more monsters wrecking shit and less boring humans.
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MalReynoldsThe Hunter S Thompson of incredibly mild medicinesRegistered Userregular
When Wantanabe was talking to the dude about the nuke, the whole pocketwatch scene was
"Hey check this out."
"What's this?"
"A-bomb killed my dad. You guys thought it was a super keen idea at the time, and it turned out to be a horrifying event that had lasting ramifications to this day, so maybe don't be so flippant with the use of atomic weapons."
Then both atomic weapons get captured.
Granted, they didn't do a dramatic cutback to Wantanabe's character going, "See, this is what I meant when I handed you the watch, that you should be a little more careful with what you consider to be an absolute solution to an ongoing problem, because now it has ramifications that you didn't really consider, so."
but I thought the point was made.
"A new take on the epic fantasy genre... Darkly comic, relatable characters... twisted storyline."
"Readers who prefer tension and romance, Maledictions: The Offering, delivers... As serious YA fiction, I’ll give it five stars out of five. As a novel? Four and a half." - Liz Ellor My new novel: Maledictions: The Offering. Now in Paperback!
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AbsoluteZeroThe new film by Quentin KoopantinoRegistered Userregular
edited May 2014
Since Watanabe's character didn't have much to do outside of tell us what a Godzilla is, I was hoping they would have done something more than the watch scene if he really felt so passionately about it. Maybe have him sabotaging one of the bombs so it can't detonate. To make matters worse, when the nuke did go off at the end, it had zero consequences. There were none of the horrors Watanabe's character alluded to. Apparently as long as nukes go off over water, everything is hunky dory.
Why does everyone think that all the bombs going off and radioactive breath and monster emp waves weren't harmful? The movie cuts out immediately, for all we know a year after the credits roll everyone's hair falls out and half the pacific seaboard is hospitalized for radiation sickness.
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AbsoluteZeroThe new film by Quentin KoopantinoRegistered Userregular
Saving it for the sequel?
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MalReynoldsThe Hunter S Thompson of incredibly mild medicinesRegistered Userregular
Because they pointed out that Godzilla feeds on radiation like the MUTOs.
I thought it was kind of implied that there wouldn't be lasting radiation due to it being the primary foodsource for the creatures; we see them eat nukes, but the breakout at Yucca (and the birth of the male) were shown to be spongelike absorption events.
"A new take on the epic fantasy genre... Darkly comic, relatable characters... twisted storyline."
"Readers who prefer tension and romance, Maledictions: The Offering, delivers... As serious YA fiction, I’ll give it five stars out of five. As a novel? Four and a half." - Liz Ellor My new novel: Maledictions: The Offering. Now in Paperback!
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Golden YakBurnished BovineThe sunny beaches of CanadaRegistered Userregular
I'm hoping Godzilla eating radiation is the reason they give for why there won't be a ton of harmful fallout.
"GODZILLA SAVES CITY!" as a headline kind've loses its cool factor if the byline is 'City Rendered Uninhabitable for Millennia'.
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Apothe0sisHave you ever questioned the nature of your reality?Registered Userregular
He's not an unreliable narrator because he isn't a narrator.
But the fact that he says things like "He's a force for balance" does not mean we have to believe him, or that the movie intends us to.
The movie intends us to.
Yeah. He is literally magic Japanese dude who knows everything about giant monsters because he's from Japan.
Except he's frequently shown as flat out wrong.
He works for a data gathering body. The data they have is limited. They present this - it's especially underscored when they review both what Cranston said and his information; not only were they in the dark about looking for a return signal from the male MUTO, they didn't even consider the possibility.
Hell, there's even a scene where they thought the breakout of the MUTO was tied with Godzilla.
Right church, wrong pew.
He's not some sort of omniscient, mystical guy and the narrative supports that relatively well.
He is shown to be flat out wrong, but the movie/narrative never acknowledges that. In fact, in the language of movies we're supposed to think "He was right all along, if only they'd listened to him then Kick Ass wouldn't have needed to fix the nuke!".
Posts
The only thing that can kill a monster is another monster.
It's physics.
Yeah, why else would we have built god damn Jagers if this wasn't an established issue with kaiju?
The creepiest scene was before the film, when they were advertising Klondike Bars in the style of a 70s porn.
Did you miss the trailer where they say that the Bikini Atoll atom bomb tests were unsuccessful attempts to kill him?
Kinda gives new meaning to the term "Haboob" doesn't it?
twitch.tv/Taramoor
@TaramoorPlays
Taramoor on Youtube
Which would be AMAZING.
I hated that thing
I know Edwards says he wants to do a Destroy All Monsters inspired movie, but I don't see how that meshes with his desire for "restraint". What's he gonna do, trick people into thinking two monsters are gonna fight and then cut away several dozen times?
BTW, the art book specifically states that the MUTOs are mammals.
<insert art major joke here>
why movies so expensive, i wanna see again
so good in imax yes
there were many flaws in this movie and pieces that could be improved but it was quite enjoyable in spite of them
Oh it's totally easy to show restraint and be a Destroy all Monster's movie.
Open with a panicked intern with a Monarch labeled jacket rushing to boss. with dozen's of paper's showing increased seismic activity around the world.
Cure Monarch boss getting the thousand yard stare and saying "Get me the President"
The guts of the movie would be humans of different goverment's/organizations tracking down the exact locations of seismic activity, discovery, and global discussion on how to deal with all of these things awakening because of the events of the first Godzilla movie.
Cue big G surfacing and "attacking" different nuclear plants across the globe. At the last plant, after weeks of attacks he just sits and WAITS.
Muto's surface(most, if not all, redesign's of classic Godzilla monster's). All head to Godzilla's location.
DESTROY
ALL
MONSTERS.
Roll credits.
C'mon, we all know it.
I also liked that he was portrayed as ridiculously put upon and bothered by having to fight.
"Readers who prefer tension and romance, Maledictions: The Offering, delivers... As serious YA fiction, I’ll give it five stars out of five. As a novel? Four and a half." - Liz Ellor
My new novel: Maledictions: The Offering. Now in Paperback!
Then what narrative purpose does he serve? Next to none. The informational content of everything he did could have been provided by an army intelligence analyst saying "we don't know much about them. Except they're big and radioactive. And there's at least two kinds. And we couldn't kill them with nukes."
Watanabe was opposed to using the nukes because of Hiroshima.
But why does it relate? There aren't a lot of parallels other than the fact that Hiroshima was bombed and they're going to use nuclear weapons.
If the concerns where that it wouldn't work then the Hiroshima angle is irrelevant.
If he wants Godzilla to fight then the Hiroshima reference is likewise irrelevant.
If it's a principled concern about using Nuclear weapons then that's pretty much entirely defanged by the fact that they're moving it to an ostensibly safe distance, have evacuated the civilian population and the alternative is let gigantic unstoppable monsters from destroy everything.
talk about unfair cancellation
Because nukes are bad or something.
Also there is no way that boat managed to get that nuke to a safe distance in 5 minutes.
Bombarding you with guilt rays about the energy source that powered the computers to render the monster to lecture the audience.
It brings balance.
I really liked Alphas. But the cancellation is worth it for retroactively making that series incredibly dark. The second season asked the question, "Is protecting those we love worth compromising our morals?" and the cancellation answers, "No."
It's human using atomic weapons vs. nature using atomic monsters.
We should let nature take its course. Because when has nature running unchecked ever been bad news for humanity?
Oh right, a whole bunch.
I wish they'd nuked Godzilla after he got his ass beat by the MUTOs, and the nuke re-charges him and gives him his atomic breath or something. I'd have been happy if that was the extent of the human involvement in the actual kaiju fighting.
This paper provides detailed answers to most of the questions you might have about monsters, monster scientists and the interaction between monsters and modern munitions.
He's an unreliable narrator, and the nature of his unreliability serves to underscore the movie's theme of nature being beyond mortal ken. This is a man who has spent his career studying these creatures, and it's clear that the best he can truly do is educated guesswork.
He isn't. The fact that he's unreliable and provides Legolas-esque commentary doesn't make him an unreliable narrator.
The movie doesn't present him that way at all. His unreliability is a bug, not a feature.
But the fact that he says things like "He's a force for balance" does not mean we have to believe him, or that the movie intends us to.
Maybe a movie with more of a message, maybe it was supposed to be more anti-nuclear, but it has all this threads and then just drops the instant Watanabe says "let them fight" to go all Tyrannosaurus Ex Machina. The bomb even goes off and everyone is fine so "eh who cares?"
The movie intends us to.
Yeah. He is literally magic Japanese dude who knows everything about giant monsters because he's from Japan.
Except he's frequently shown as flat out wrong.
He works for a data gathering body. The data they have is limited. They present this - it's especially underscored when they review both what Cranston said and his information; not only were they in the dark about looking for a return signal from the male MUTO, they didn't even consider the possibility.
Hell, there's even a scene where they thought the breakout of the MUTO was tied with Godzilla.
Right church, wrong pew.
He's not some sort of omniscient, mystical guy and the narrative supports that relatively well.
"Readers who prefer tension and romance, Maledictions: The Offering, delivers... As serious YA fiction, I’ll give it five stars out of five. As a novel? Four and a half." - Liz Ellor
My new novel: Maledictions: The Offering. Now in Paperback!
The original was pretty great save for all the Mr American Man shoehorned into it, and with expectations adjusted for 1950's film making. They showed a lot of restraint in revealing Godzilla in all his glory, but once they finally let him loose he raised hell and it was great. I was a little disappointed that they vaporized his ass, but they probably weren't thinking franchise. It was just a disaster movie, through and through, and a meditation on the atomic bomb.
Godzilla Final Wars was... good lord... it was poop from a butt. It was Power Rangers and The Matrix had a crack baby. It made me want to vomit my balls out my ass. The plot made zero fucking sense, the acting was awful, it was just about the campiest shit I've seen since Batman & Robin, though thank God(zilla) there were fewer puns. Some of the monster fighting was fun, but the way the suitmation actors ham it up really draws attention to the fact that these are guys in ridiculous rubber suits and not giant monsters. If they cut out everything except for Godzilla kicking ass, it would have been passable.
Godzilla 2014 however, was just about everything I ever wanted a Godzilla movie to be. It harkens back to the disaster film tone of the 1954 original, and keeps the campy bullshit to a minimum. I loved Bryan Cranston, and was hugely disappointed his character was killed off so early. It seems insane to me that he was essentially traded as the main character for his son. The actor who portrayed him was not offensively bad, just boring, and didn't have a whole lot to do except give us a front line soldier to follow into battle. His wife had literally nothing to do in the whole film except worry about her husband. It appeared she was a nurse or something, they could have created a plot for her that involved saving patients or something mildly interesting, or they could have just cut a lot of unneeded scenes of her looking shocked. They also could have cut a lot of the mission control scenes which only seem to exist to explain things to the audience that should have been obvious (we see a monster destroy Las Vegas, cut to the control room -- Captain, the MUTO is in Las Vegas!). They seemed to be pushing a plot thread with Ken Watanabe's character involving him trying to prevent the military from using an atomic bomb against the monsters, but that fizzled and went nowhere. They could have cut that bit all together, or actually made something of it. Finally, the monster carnage was just about the greatest fucking thing ever. The only thing they need for a sequel is more monsters wrecking shit and less boring humans.
"Hey check this out."
"What's this?"
"A-bomb killed my dad. You guys thought it was a super keen idea at the time, and it turned out to be a horrifying event that had lasting ramifications to this day, so maybe don't be so flippant with the use of atomic weapons."
Then both atomic weapons get captured.
Granted, they didn't do a dramatic cutback to Wantanabe's character going, "See, this is what I meant when I handed you the watch, that you should be a little more careful with what you consider to be an absolute solution to an ongoing problem, because now it has ramifications that you didn't really consider, so."
but I thought the point was made.
"Readers who prefer tension and romance, Maledictions: The Offering, delivers... As serious YA fiction, I’ll give it five stars out of five. As a novel? Four and a half." - Liz Ellor
My new novel: Maledictions: The Offering. Now in Paperback!
I thought it was kind of implied that there wouldn't be lasting radiation due to it being the primary foodsource for the creatures; we see them eat nukes, but the breakout at Yucca (and the birth of the male) were shown to be spongelike absorption events.
"Readers who prefer tension and romance, Maledictions: The Offering, delivers... As serious YA fiction, I’ll give it five stars out of five. As a novel? Four and a half." - Liz Ellor
My new novel: Maledictions: The Offering. Now in Paperback!
"GODZILLA SAVES CITY!" as a headline kind've loses its cool factor if the byline is 'City Rendered Uninhabitable for Millennia'.
He is shown to be flat out wrong, but the movie/narrative never acknowledges that. In fact, in the language of movies we're supposed to think "He was right all along, if only they'd listened to him then Kick Ass wouldn't have needed to fix the nuke!".