Why would you feel the need to have to counter pick a bloodseeker? He still isn't that scary in pubs, you could probably pick a support with stuns like lion and carry a TP for the lvl 6 roam to a sidelane or the mid tower dive.
Just because its a pub, and even though I know how to beat a Bloodcyka doesnt mean my team does. I would rather just counter him in in lane and prevent him from getting the good start he needs to be successful. I mean, if people can't follow simple instructions like, "Don't build a mek; I got it covered", then I hate to assume they can do anything constructive on their own.
Ok but if you have that much trust in your team mates, why do you think viper would know how to counter him?
Because even a dumb viper should be able to abuse the harass?
Why would you feel the need to have to counter pick a bloodseeker? He still isn't that scary in pubs, you could probably pick a support with stuns like lion and carry a TP for the lvl 6 roam to a sidelane or the mid tower dive.
Just because its a pub, and even though I know how to beat a Bloodcyka doesnt mean my team does. I would rather just counter him in in lane and prevent him from getting the good start he needs to be successful. I mean, if people can't follow simple instructions like, "Don't build a mek; I got it covered", then I hate to assume they can do anything constructive on their own.
Ok but if you have that much trust in your team mates, why do you think viper would know how to counter him?
Because even a dumb viper should be able to abuse the harass?
I don't believe your pub is too dumb to know to not move on rupture and use a TP but smart enough to orb walk and skill viper properly.
Double mek though, that shit just happens sometimes in pubs. You don't want it but it's not that bad. Twice the chance the carrier remembers to use it or if they have a doom. :P
Honestly? Nuthin' wrong with two Meks in my eyes, at least in a pub, at least as long as they both get used in team fights. Played in a 4k team game yesterday where that'd have been far more useful than the unused pipe we got.
Honestly there is so much agonising over hero picks and item builds at lower MMR levels and yet so much is decided by how and where you engage in team fights. So often the swing is caused in a 5v5 where two guys decide to try and run, when they are clearly going to die anyway, and if they'd just auto attacked, the fight could have been won. Instead it's a wipe, and then it's a snowball. Too often guys aren't aware of other guys abilities.
Anyhoo, I'm kinda buzzed, so tonight I'm going to try some unranked timbersaw because first he looks so fucking fun and secondly because apparently his VO work indicates he's actually afraid of trees. That shit is fucking hilarious.
Bzzzzzzzz
ALRIGHT FINE I GOT AN AVATAR
Steam: adamjnet
0
3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
Honestly? Nuthin' wrong with two Meks in my eyes, at least in a pub, at least as long as they both get used in team fights. Played in a 4k team game yesterday where that'd have been far more useful than the unused pipe we got.
Honestly there is so much agonising over hero picks and item builds at lower MMR levels and yet so much is decided by how and where you engage in team fights. So often the swing is caused in a 5v5 where two guys decide to try and run, when they are clearly going to die anyway, and if they'd just auto attacked, the fight could have been won. Instead it's a wipe, and then it's a snowball. Too often guys aren't aware of other guys abilities.
Anyhoo, I'm kinda buzzed, so tonight I'm going to try some unranked timbersaw because first he looks so fucking fun and secondly because apparently his VO work indicates he's actually afraid of trees. That shit is fucking hilarious.
Bzzzzzzzz
The problem is that most pubs probably don't realize you have to stagger the Mek uses by 25 seconds. You can't pop them in succession.
Honestly? Nuthin' wrong with two Meks in my eyes, at least in a pub, at least as long as they both get used in team fights.
multiple mek activations won't stack*, meaning under ideal circumstances two Meks give you very little (lowers the cooldown on mek heal to 25 seconds from 45, with proper usage).
*
[Mekansm's] Healing does not affect any units that have been healed by Restore in the last 25 seconds.
I mean, it's not intuitive; I don't think it's even in the item tooltip? But yeah, that's why pro teams only build 1 Mek instead of having everyone build one.
the library tooltip for mekansm mentions it but the in-game one does not
anyway you should be born with an encyclopedic knowledge of dota mechanics hth
The Dota gods do not want me to learn how to play Tinker, apparently. Every single game, I queue up with the intention of picking Tink. And I announce my intention to do so to my team. And in every single game, one of my teammates demands mid, or the other team picks Tinker. I've been playing him in bot games to get my rotations down, and I do okay. Like, around 700xp and gold per minute. I know its not shit-hot, but it feels okay to me.
I'm just not coordinated enough at this point to be able to utilize him to the fullest extent. Like, I'm really good at ...
Boots to lane
March
Bottle charge, Soul Ring
Rearm
Repeat steps 2-4 until threatened or you need mana
If I TP into an area with enemies nearby, I always rocket before I march, or Rocket/Rearm spam. It works pretty damned well. And with all of that stuff, I'm pretty decent. Its when I need to add in a Sheep Stick and a Dagon that I get tripped up and start fat-fingering the whole thing. I may just pick up a Scepter on him from now on, since it upgrades like all of his skills, and doesn't require me to push any extra buttons.
The Dota gods do not want me to learn how to play Tinker, apparently. Every single game, I queue up with the intention of picking Tink. And I announce my intention to do so to my team. And in every single game, one of my teammates demands mid, or the other team picks Tinker. I've been playing him in bot games to get my rotations down, and I do okay. Like, around 700xp and gold per minute. I know its not shit-hot, but it feels okay to me.
I'm just not coordinated enough at this point to be able to utilize him to the fullest extent. Like, I'm really good at ...
Boots to lane
March
Bottle charge, Soul Ring
Rearm
Repeat steps 2-4 until threatened or you need mana
If I TP into an area with enemies nearby, I always rocket before I march, or Rocket/Rearm spam. It works pretty damned well. And with all of that stuff, I'm pretty decent. Its when I need to add in a Sheep Stick and a Dagon that I get tripped up and start fat-fingering the whole thing. I may just pick up a Scepter on him from now on, since it upgrades like all of his skills, and doesn't require me to push any extra buttons.
You really REALLY want a blink on tinker. Like 1st item after BoT/soul ring/bottle.
Agha upgrades his laser cast range and makes 4 rockets shoot out. Rockets are neat, laser is maybe a bit better but the cast animation is too long in comparison to everything else. Agha you can actually cast laser in big fights but I don't know if it's actually worth it.
At some point you're gonna have soul ring->bottle->rearm hotkeys not only memorized but so ingrained that when you get a shiva or something to replace the soul ring you'll be spamming that all the time.
You want as many active items on tinker as possible because of rearm. Like blink+force might be overkill for mobility but end goal is BoT, blink dagger, hex, dagon 5, ethereal blade, shivas. Soul ring and bottle till you fill it out.
Just fucking 1st pick tinker if you're solo in a pub, go sidelane if pudge isn't budging from mid or farm ancients if you've got that down. Eventually you'll get BoT and then you can farm lanes/jungle easier.
700 GPM is pretty good for tinker but I have no idea how well bots react to him. Furion already screws them, I can't imagine what tinker does. Do they acknowledge the march area?
Timbersaw's kind of hard. Like, yeah, he's tanky, but I can't seem to make an impact on the game with him. Too often I get stuck without trees to latch to; I thought the Chain would be much more readily available to me than it is. Any advice?
So far in my limited amount of games I've found I really like Vengeful Spirit - any heroes similar to her? I generally gravitate towards support roles anyway so any suggestions are appreciated. In LoL I mostly played Lux - who I have heard is similar to Crystal Maiden but haven't really tried her yet.
You really REALLY want a blink on tinker. Like 1st item after BoT/soul ring/bottle.
I know, man. I just can't make it work yet; I'm not coordinated enough to pull it all together. What I've been doing is teleporting to lane and then blinking into the trees to protect myself from anyone that might be nearby. It works well, but I find it awkward as hell. My hotkeys could be better, I'm sure. I actually use the MMO setup, where my abilities are on 1-2-3-4 and my items are Z-X-C, etc. I can hit Z-X-C (bottle, boots, soul ring) really well, but anything after that is an awkward stretch.
So far in my limited amount of games I've found I really like Vengeful Spirit - any heroes similar to her? I generally gravitate towards support roles anyway so any suggestions are appreciated. In LoL I mostly played Lux - who I have heard is similar to Crystal Maiden but haven't really tried her yet.
I sent you a friend request. You should start rolling with us.
If you like Venge, there are a lot of other heroes you might enjoy. I can give you some suggestions, but it really just depends on what you like about Venge: if you want a ranged support with a low cooldown stun and an area debuff, Jakiro fits the bill; if you want a support with an aura, both Crystal Maiden (mana regeneration) and Beastmaster (attack speed) could work. Venge's ultimate is pretty unique, however, in that it allows you to pick off targets by swapping them back into your group, and also to save important allies by swapping them out of nasty situations (like a Chronosphere).
You really REALLY want a blink on tinker. Like 1st item after BoT/soul ring/bottle.
I know, man. I just can't make it work yet; I'm not coordinated enough to pull it all together. What I've been doing is teleporting to lane and then blinking into the trees to protect myself from anyone that might be nearby. It works well, but I find it awkward as hell. My hotkeys could be better, I'm sure. I actually use the MMO setup, where my abilities are on 1-2-3-4 and my items are Z-X-C, etc. I can hit Z-X-C (bottle, boots, soul ring) really well, but anything after that is an awkward stretch.
I also Bind items to my mouse thumb buttons and spacebar. I put mobility items on the spacebar, Blink and Force Staff, and Disables/nukes on the thumb buttons. Regen type stuff is on 1 and 2, rarely do I press 3.
DOTA 2 Pug story time!
This was actually an interesting game, I was on Windranger, laned with Drow on Dire hardlane, against Jugg and Lifestealer. We dominated that lane, anytime either of them went in for a last hit, he gets shot like 4 times - and that Drow aura is nasty early game. Ran Naix into the jungle in about 45 seconds. We pushed top down, then group for a deathball and start taking teamfights. A few very close 4v5s later, which we took, I realized Drow wasn't with us at all anymore. She had bought BoTs and Drums, and was split pushing like a madwoman. She ended up with a Blink Dagger and a Ghost Scepter as well. We managed a pretty good series of teamfights 4v5, but after a bit their Lifestealer and Nyx just had my number. BUT, every teamfight we had, win or lose, Drow took a tower. I was initially going to scream bloody murder for her "shit" items, but man it worked great.
Because if you're going to attempt to squeeze that big black monster into your slot you will need to be able to take at least 12 inches or else you're going to have a bad time...
So far in my limited amount of games I've found I really like Vengeful Spirit - any heroes similar to her? I generally gravitate towards support roles anyway so any suggestions are appreciated. In LoL I mostly played Lux - who I have heard is similar to Crystal Maiden but haven't really tried her yet.
I sent you a friend request. You should start rolling with us.
If you like Venge, there are a lot of other heroes you might enjoy. I can give you some suggestions, but it really just depends on what you like about Venge: if you want a ranged support with a low cooldown stun and an area debuff, Jakiro fits the bill; if you want a support with an aura, both Crystal Maiden (mana regeneration) and Beastmaster (attack speed) could work. Venge's ultimate is pretty unique, however, in that it allows you to pick off targets by swapping them back into your group, and also to save important allies by swapping them out of nasty situations (like a Chronosphere).
Playing with a Crystal Maiden in the game is so much fun. Laning is like, 1000x easier with so much mana floating around.
+1
DomhnallMinty D. Vision!ScotlandRegistered Userregular
Kotl mid totally legit. 4 support team errday.
Xbox Live - Minty D Vision Steam - Minty D. Vision! Origin/BF3 - MintyDVision
I've played KotL mid before. Although he can't benefit from the farm as much as a proper mid hero, as supports go he is one of the best to put there, because he can take the tower extremely early thanks to clearing creeps, will get almost all of the farm, and can bully the opposing mid hero very easily. A KotL mid is a great way to guarantee a very early Mek and then Aghs on him.
+1
DomhnallMinty D. Vision!ScotlandRegistered Userregular
That is what I did (minus the mek). Even foiled two gank attempts due to my superior ability to run back up my hill. Storm and Nature's didn't know what to do.
Xbox Live - Minty D Vision Steam - Minty D. Vision! Origin/BF3 - MintyDVision
I've played KotL mid before. Although he can't benefit from the farm as much as a proper mid hero, as supports go he is one of the best to put there, because he can take the tower extremely early thanks to clearing creeps, will get almost all of the farm, and can bully the opposing mid hero very easily. A KotL mid is a great way to guarantee a very early Mek and then Aghs on him.
I play with a guy who does this fairly often, and it works out pretty well because KOTL can totally make use of the cash to put towards Aghanims. I mean it's probably not as good as the more standard mids for a variety of reasons, but if it works...
If you really want to up your MMR, you have to commit to an extreme amount of games. Even if you have an absurd consistent winrate like 60%, it will take you a few months to move up to around 3k. It's the nature of the beast unfortunately. I wish the system was some how different (the way my friends describe the system in league of legends makes it sound pretty fun), but I don't really know what you'd do with it.
EDIT: Man, that darude set for the VIP party was actually pretty great. It was a flashback to all my favorite late 90's/early 20's techno.
LATE NIGHT ADDENDUM: When you random Broodmother, Earthshaker on the other team is not your friend.
Because if you're going to attempt to squeeze that big black monster into your slot you will need to be able to take at least 12 inches or else you're going to have a bad time...
The keys to getting out of elo hell/severe trench etc. in any MOBA are the following steps:
1. Play heroes you can fairly easily carry with. Someone like weaver might be ideal, as he has survivability since you can't rely on your team.
2. Build items that shut down the person owning on the other team. I'm betting most of witch doctors kills were with his ult, which you can easily shut down with a hex/silence etc. If he was a pro with his BKB during it, go abyssal.
@Dusda, you can always come play with us, man. We don't really do ranked matches (we certainly could, but for some reason, we never do). In my experience, there's very little difference between ranked and non-ranked matches, except that in non-ranked matches, I don't obsess about my MMR or get shitty when it decreases. If I want to track my progress in that department, I typically just go to my Dotabuff profile and check: if it says "Normal Skill" next to a game, that's under 3200 MMR; if it says "High Skill", it was 3200-3800; "Very High Skill" is 3800+.
Not every game will display the bracket like that, but its consistent enough that you can get a general idea of what your MMR is. Mine is consistently "High" with occasional "Very High" spikes.
MMR is retarded, they really should move to a League system a la SC2 or LoL.
If they do that I'll start playing ranked, until then I'll be perfectly happy with not having some screechy nerd tell me to kill myself over 25 internet points.
gt: Bobby2Socks | steam: Billy Boot-Snatcher
You talk clean and bomb hospitals, so I speak with the foulest mouth possible
I'm pretty thoroughly convinced that there's no single recipe for getting better at DOTA and raising your MMR. You can focus on mechanics (last hitting, reflexes), sure, but what are mechanics without map awareness? You can focus on map awareness, but what is map awareness without good spell/ability usage? You can focus on spell/ability usage, but what is spell/ability usage without good mechanics?
The complex truth is that DOTA is a game of windows. Every action you take should be aimed at exploiting a window of opportunity for a specific benefit, while minimizing the window of opportunity created for your opponents. These windows can be anything: Securing a kill on an out of position enemy, pushing a tower, taking rosh, stacking a camp, getting a single last hit, whatever.
The better you are at accessing a window, then executing what needs to occur to take advantage of that window, the better you are at the game. Sometimes it happens all at once, like it just dawns on you, I need to do THIS and I can snowball, etc. Other times it's like banging your head against a wall.
I'm at 4K MMR, which is probably where I'll stay. Getting better at this point requires a serious commitment to developing a lot of skills, and I'm having fun as is.
Posts
Because even a dumb viper should be able to abuse the harass?
I don't believe your pub is too dumb to know to not move on rupture and use a TP but smart enough to orb walk and skill viper properly.
Double mek though, that shit just happens sometimes in pubs. You don't want it but it's not that bad. Twice the chance the carrier remembers to use it or if they have a doom. :P
Honestly there is so much agonising over hero picks and item builds at lower MMR levels and yet so much is decided by how and where you engage in team fights. So often the swing is caused in a 5v5 where two guys decide to try and run, when they are clearly going to die anyway, and if they'd just auto attacked, the fight could have been won. Instead it's a wipe, and then it's a snowball. Too often guys aren't aware of other guys abilities.
Anyhoo, I'm kinda buzzed, so tonight I'm going to try some unranked timbersaw because first he looks so fucking fun and secondly because apparently his VO work indicates he's actually afraid of trees. That shit is fucking hilarious.
Bzzzzzzzz
Steam: adamjnet
The problem is that most pubs probably don't realize you have to stagger the Mek uses by 25 seconds. You can't pop them in succession.
*
Steam: adamjnet
I mean, it's not intuitive; I don't think it's even in the item tooltip? But yeah, that's why pro teams only build 1 Mek instead of having everyone build one.
anyway you should be born with an encyclopedic knowledge of dota mechanics hth
Like yesterday, I was incredibly embarassed to learn how Kraken shell works when the tide magically unhexed himself.
I'm just not coordinated enough at this point to be able to utilize him to the fullest extent. Like, I'm really good at ...
If I TP into an area with enemies nearby, I always rocket before I march, or Rocket/Rearm spam. It works pretty damned well. And with all of that stuff, I'm pretty decent. Its when I need to add in a Sheep Stick and a Dagon that I get tripped up and start fat-fingering the whole thing. I may just pick up a Scepter on him from now on, since it upgrades like all of his skills, and doesn't require me to push any extra buttons.
You really REALLY want a blink on tinker. Like 1st item after BoT/soul ring/bottle.
Agha upgrades his laser cast range and makes 4 rockets shoot out. Rockets are neat, laser is maybe a bit better but the cast animation is too long in comparison to everything else. Agha you can actually cast laser in big fights but I don't know if it's actually worth it.
At some point you're gonna have soul ring->bottle->rearm hotkeys not only memorized but so ingrained that when you get a shiva or something to replace the soul ring you'll be spamming that all the time.
You want as many active items on tinker as possible because of rearm. Like blink+force might be overkill for mobility but end goal is BoT, blink dagger, hex, dagon 5, ethereal blade, shivas. Soul ring and bottle till you fill it out.
Just fucking 1st pick tinker if you're solo in a pub, go sidelane if pudge isn't budging from mid or farm ancients if you've got that down. Eventually you'll get BoT and then you can farm lanes/jungle easier.
700 GPM is pretty good for tinker but I have no idea how well bots react to him. Furion already screws them, I can't imagine what tinker does. Do they acknowledge the march area?
Steam: adamjnet
You talk clean and bomb hospitals, so I speak with the foulest mouth possible
For a support role that has stun and benefits the heam with auras, there's plenty.
I know, man. I just can't make it work yet; I'm not coordinated enough to pull it all together. What I've been doing is teleporting to lane and then blinking into the trees to protect myself from anyone that might be nearby. It works well, but I find it awkward as hell. My hotkeys could be better, I'm sure. I actually use the MMO setup, where my abilities are on 1-2-3-4 and my items are Z-X-C, etc. I can hit Z-X-C (bottle, boots, soul ring) really well, but anything after that is an awkward stretch.
If you're specifically boner-ing about the idea of a giant laser beam, Phoenix could work. Not very similar to Lux otherwise though.
Also, someone play Doto with me nao, I'm sick of pubs.
You talk clean and bomb hospitals, so I speak with the foulest mouth possible
I sent you a friend request. You should start rolling with us.
If you like Venge, there are a lot of other heroes you might enjoy. I can give you some suggestions, but it really just depends on what you like about Venge: if you want a ranged support with a low cooldown stun and an area debuff, Jakiro fits the bill; if you want a support with an aura, both Crystal Maiden (mana regeneration) and Beastmaster (attack speed) could work. Venge's ultimate is pretty unique, however, in that it allows you to pick off targets by swapping them back into your group, and also to save important allies by swapping them out of nasty situations (like a Chronosphere).
I also Bind items to my mouse thumb buttons and spacebar. I put mobility items on the spacebar, Blink and Force Staff, and Disables/nukes on the thumb buttons. Regen type stuff is on 1 and 2, rarely do I press 3.
DOTA 2 Pug story time!
This was actually an interesting game, I was on Windranger, laned with Drow on Dire hardlane, against Jugg and Lifestealer. We dominated that lane, anytime either of them went in for a last hit, he gets shot like 4 times - and that Drow aura is nasty early game. Ran Naix into the jungle in about 45 seconds. We pushed top down, then group for a deathball and start taking teamfights. A few very close 4v5s later, which we took, I realized Drow wasn't with us at all anymore. She had bought BoTs and Drums, and was split pushing like a madwoman. She ended up with a Blink Dagger and a Ghost Scepter as well. We managed a pretty good series of teamfights 4v5, but after a bit their Lifestealer and Nyx just had my number. BUT, every teamfight we had, win or lose, Drow took a tower. I was initially going to scream bloody murder for her "shit" items, but man it worked great.
Everyone loves a support Pudge.
Playing with a Crystal Maiden in the game is so much fun. Laning is like, 1000x easier with so much mana floating around.
Steam - Minty D. Vision!
Origin/BF3 - MintyDVision
with @domhnall
I've played KotL mid before. Although he can't benefit from the farm as much as a proper mid hero, as supports go he is one of the best to put there, because he can take the tower extremely early thanks to clearing creeps, will get almost all of the farm, and can bully the opposing mid hero very easily. A KotL mid is a great way to guarantee a very early Mek and then Aghs on him.
Steam - Minty D. Vision!
Origin/BF3 - MintyDVision
Steam - Minty D. Vision!
Origin/BF3 - MintyDVision
I play with a guy who does this fairly often, and it works out pretty well because KOTL can totally make use of the cash to put towards Aghanims. I mean it's probably not as good as the more standard mids for a variety of reasons, but if it works...
I get a good group, play well, and go up 25. Then I get a bad group and do well but lose anyway and go down 25. Then I get a good group...*sigh*
EDIT: Man, that darude set for the VIP party was actually pretty great. It was a flashback to all my favorite late 90's/early 20's techno.
LATE NIGHT ADDENDUM: When you random Broodmother, Earthshaker on the other team is not your friend.
I don't even understand how anyone can be so bad as to feed 30 kills to a witch doctor.
1. Play heroes you can fairly easily carry with. Someone like weaver might be ideal, as he has survivability since you can't rely on your team.
2. Build items that shut down the person owning on the other team. I'm betting most of witch doctors kills were with his ult, which you can easily shut down with a hex/silence etc. If he was a pro with his BKB during it, go abyssal.
Not every game will display the bracket like that, but its consistent enough that you can get a general idea of what your MMR is. Mine is consistently "High" with occasional "Very High" spikes.
If they do that I'll start playing ranked, until then I'll be perfectly happy with not having some screechy nerd tell me to kill myself over 25 internet points.
You talk clean and bomb hospitals, so I speak with the foulest mouth possible
The complex truth is that DOTA is a game of windows. Every action you take should be aimed at exploiting a window of opportunity for a specific benefit, while minimizing the window of opportunity created for your opponents. These windows can be anything: Securing a kill on an out of position enemy, pushing a tower, taking rosh, stacking a camp, getting a single last hit, whatever.
The better you are at accessing a window, then executing what needs to occur to take advantage of that window, the better you are at the game. Sometimes it happens all at once, like it just dawns on you, I need to do THIS and I can snowball, etc. Other times it's like banging your head against a wall.
I'm at 4K MMR, which is probably where I'll stay. Getting better at this point requires a serious commitment to developing a lot of skills, and I'm having fun as is.
Our first game is now available for free on Google Play: Frontier: Isle of the Seven Gods
Not really. It removes at least some "proof" that what they're doing has some kind of basis behind it.
You talk clean and bomb hospitals, so I speak with the foulest mouth possible