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Nobody Expects the [SCOTUS] 5-4 Decision! (Read the OP)

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    So It GoesSo It Goes We keep moving...Registered User regular
    Direct vs. circumstantial has nothing to do with it, and is a distinction mostly used in TV shows.

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    TaramoorTaramoor Storyteller Registered User regular
    So It Goes wrote: »
    The leading case is Brady: the prosecution has an affirmative duty to turn over all exculpatory evidence in their possession and control to the defense. Evidence in the police dept is in the possession and control of the DA.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brady_v._Maryland

    Are there any negative consequences if they DON'T turn over exculpatory evidence?

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    joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Class Traitor Smoke-filled roomRegistered User regular
    Taramoor wrote: »
    So It Goes wrote: »
    The leading case is Brady: the prosecution has an affirmative duty to turn over all exculpatory evidence in their possession and control to the defense. Evidence in the police dept is in the possession and control of the DA.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brady_v._Maryland

    Are there any negative consequences if they DON'T turn over exculpatory evidence?

    I'm pretty sure it's grounds for an appeal, at the least.

  • Options
    So It GoesSo It Goes We keep moving...Registered User regular
    edited August 2014
    Taramoor wrote: »
    So It Goes wrote: »
    The leading case is Brady: the prosecution has an affirmative duty to turn over all exculpatory evidence in their possession and control to the defense. Evidence in the police dept is in the possession and control of the DA.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brady_v._Maryland

    Are there any negative consequences if they DON'T turn over exculpatory evidence?

    Conviction should be reversed if this is found out after the fact. During the case defense attorneys can make the court compel the DA to turn over something they think they are entitled to have have but hasn't been given to the defense yet. The court could do an in camera review of something and determine whether it should be turned over.

    Depending on the severity of failing to comply with Brady, bar sanctions could be brought against the prosecutor. But keep in mind reasonable legal minds can differ as to what is actually exculpatory. Defense attorneys use that term very broadly, prosecutors narrowly.

    I forget what this has to do with the case we were discussing though...

    So It Goes on
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    AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    So It Goes wrote: »
    The leading case is Brady: the prosecution has an affirmative duty to turn over all exculpatory evidence in their possession and control to the defense. Evidence in the police dept is in the possession and control of the DA.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brady_v._Maryland

    The problem is that the current court has been chipping away at Brady.

    XBL: Nox Aeternum / PSN: NoxAeternum / NN:NoxAeternum / Steam: noxaeternum
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    FoefallerFoefaller Registered User regular
    So It Goes wrote: »
    Taramoor wrote: »
    So It Goes wrote: »
    The leading case is Brady: the prosecution has an affirmative duty to turn over all exculpatory evidence in their possession and control to the defense. Evidence in the police dept is in the possession and control of the DA.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brady_v._Maryland

    Are there any negative consequences if they DON'T turn over exculpatory evidence?

    Conviction should be reversed if this is found out after the fact. During the case defense attorneys can make the court compel the DA to turn over something they think they are entitled to have have but hasn't been given to the defense yet. The court could do an in camera review of something and determine whether it should be turned over.

    Depending on the severity of failing to comply with Brady, bar sanctions could be brought against the prosecutor. But keep in mind reasonable legal minds can differ as to what is actually exculpatory. Defense attorneys use that term very broadly, prosecutors narrowly.

    I forget what this has to do with the case we were discussing though...

    Somebody brought up the "Anything you say can and will be used against you" part of the Miranda Rights and believed it meant that the police don't have to give out exculpatory evidence, when actually means that while the 5th amendment protects you from having to incriminate yourself, it doesn't deny you the "right" to put your foot in your mouth, so to speak.

    steam_sig.png
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    TaramoorTaramoor Storyteller Registered User regular
    edited August 2014
    Foefaller wrote: »
    So It Goes wrote: »
    Taramoor wrote: »
    So It Goes wrote: »
    The leading case is Brady: the prosecution has an affirmative duty to turn over all exculpatory evidence in their possession and control to the defense. Evidence in the police dept is in the possession and control of the DA.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brady_v._Maryland

    Are there any negative consequences if they DON'T turn over exculpatory evidence?

    Conviction should be reversed if this is found out after the fact. During the case defense attorneys can make the court compel the DA to turn over something they think they are entitled to have have but hasn't been given to the defense yet. The court could do an in camera review of something and determine whether it should be turned over.

    Depending on the severity of failing to comply with Brady, bar sanctions could be brought against the prosecutor. But keep in mind reasonable legal minds can differ as to what is actually exculpatory. Defense attorneys use that term very broadly, prosecutors narrowly.

    I forget what this has to do with the case we were discussing though...

    Somebody brought up the "Anything you say can and will be used against you" part of the Miranda Rights and believed it meant that the police don't have to give out exculpatory evidence, when actually means that while the 5th amendment protects you from having to incriminate yourself, it doesn't deny you the "right" to put your foot in your mouth, so to speak.

    Actually it means that anything you say will be used against you, and nothing you say or do will be used in your favor.

    The recent court ruling just appends that to mean that anything you say will be used against you, as well as anything you don't say.

    Taramoor on
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    ElJeffeElJeffe Moderator, ClubPA mod
    Taramoor wrote: »
    Foefaller wrote: »
    So It Goes wrote: »
    Taramoor wrote: »
    So It Goes wrote: »
    The leading case is Brady: the prosecution has an affirmative duty to turn over all exculpatory evidence in their possession and control to the defense. Evidence in the police dept is in the possession and control of the DA.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brady_v._Maryland

    Are there any negative consequences if they DON'T turn over exculpatory evidence?

    Conviction should be reversed if this is found out after the fact. During the case defense attorneys can make the court compel the DA to turn over something they think they are entitled to have have but hasn't been given to the defense yet. The court could do an in camera review of something and determine whether it should be turned over.

    Depending on the severity of failing to comply with Brady, bar sanctions could be brought against the prosecutor. But keep in mind reasonable legal minds can differ as to what is actually exculpatory. Defense attorneys use that term very broadly, prosecutors narrowly.

    I forget what this has to do with the case we were discussing though...

    Somebody brought up the "Anything you say can and will be used against you" part of the Miranda Rights and believed it meant that the police don't have to give out exculpatory evidence, when actually means that while the 5th amendment protects you from having to incriminate yourself, it doesn't deny you the "right" to put your foot in your mouth, so to speak.

    Actually it means that anything you say will be used against you, and nothing you say or do will be used in your favor.

    The recent court ruling just appends that to mean that anything you say will be used against you, as well as anything you don't say.

    "You have the right to get fucked, because we're basically going to convict you no matter what happens at this point."

    I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
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    silence1186silence1186 Character shields down! As a wingmanRegistered User regular
    "We don't even care if you did it! Just so long as SOMEBODY goes to jail."

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    MillMill Registered User regular
    So Roberts just put a stay on the the 4th's gay marriage ruling. Had he not done that, gays and lesbians would have been able to start getting legally married in VA tomorrow. The 6th is suppose to have a ruling soon and that may create a split, since there seems to be bets that they may likely uphold a gay marriage ban.

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    AbsalonAbsalon Lands of Always WinterRegistered User regular
    edited August 2014
    Great, so now we wait for Emperor Anthony to check if he currently feels like acting like a decent human being or not.

    Absalon on
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    monikermoniker Registered User regular
    Absalon wrote: »
    Great, so now we wait for Emperor Anthony to check if he currently feels like acting like a decent human being or not.

    That was always going to be the case because they were always going to stay the rulings until the Court decides the issue next term. I just can't wait until June when it comes down and ends all the damn idiocy about this.

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    V1mV1m Registered User regular
    moniker wrote: »
    Absalon wrote: »
    Great, so now we wait for Emperor Anthony to check if he currently feels like acting like a decent human being or not.

    That was always going to be the case because they were always going to stay the rulings until the Court decides the issue next term. I just can't wait until June when it comes down and ends all the damn idiocy about this.

    I'll be hugely surprised if it ends all the damb idiocy about this.

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    MillMill Registered User regular
    V1m wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    Absalon wrote: »
    Great, so now we wait for Emperor Anthony to check if he currently feels like acting like a decent human being or not.

    That was always going to be the case because they were always going to stay the rulings until the Court decides the issue next term. I just can't wait until June when it comes down and ends all the damn idiocy about this.

    I'll be hugely surprised if it ends all the damb idiocy about this.

    Yeah, I mean look at what the fundie crowd starting doing after Roe V Wade. I'd say, expect them to go full derp but those clowns already are, so just expect the idiocy to get more appalling. Silver lining is that it might really turn enough people off, that the shitty movement loses steam and becomes politically toxic. Or we'll get stuck waiting for the biggest age demographic with a shitty view to die off, so that indulging in the idiocy is no longer politically expedient.

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    AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    Mill wrote: »
    V1m wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    Absalon wrote: »
    Great, so now we wait for Emperor Anthony to check if he currently feels like acting like a decent human being or not.

    That was always going to be the case because they were always going to stay the rulings until the Court decides the issue next term. I just can't wait until June when it comes down and ends all the damn idiocy about this.

    I'll be hugely surprised if it ends all the damb idiocy about this.

    Yeah, I mean look at what the fundie crowd starting doing after Roe V Wade. I'd say, expect them to go full derp but those clowns already are, so just expect the idiocy to get more appalling. Silver lining is that it might really turn enough people off, that the shitty movement loses steam and becomes politically toxic. Or we'll get stuck waiting for the biggest age demographic with a shitty view to die off, so that indulging in the idiocy is no longer politically expedient.

    Actually, the fundies were supportive of (or at the least quiet about) the Roe decision, in large part because at the time, opposition to abortion was seen as a primarily Catholic belief. At that time, the big baliwick of the Protestant evangelicals was racism and defending its use. It wasn't until the mid-80's that they tacked to homosexuality and abortion as campaigns to rally around.

    XBL: Nox Aeternum / PSN: NoxAeternum / NN:NoxAeternum / Steam: noxaeternum
  • Options
    V1mV1m Registered User regular
    Mill wrote: »
    V1m wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    Absalon wrote: »
    Great, so now we wait for Emperor Anthony to check if he currently feels like acting like a decent human being or not.

    That was always going to be the case because they were always going to stay the rulings until the Court decides the issue next term. I just can't wait until June when it comes down and ends all the damn idiocy about this.

    I'll be hugely surprised if it ends all the damb idiocy about this.

    Yeah, I mean look at what the fundie crowd starting doing after Roe V Wade. I'd say, expect them to go full derp but those clowns already are, so just expect the idiocy to get more appalling. Silver lining is that it might really turn enough people off, that the shitty movement loses steam and becomes politically toxic. Or we'll get stuck waiting for the biggest age demographic with a shitty view to die off, so that indulging in the idiocy is no longer politically expedient.

    Actually, the fundies were supportive of (or at the least quiet about) the Roe decision, in large part because at the time, opposition to abortion was seen as a primarily Catholic belief. At that time, the big baliwick of the Protestant evangelicals was racism and defending its use. It wasn't until the mid-80's that they tacked to homosexuality and abortion as campaigns to rally around.

    mmm identity politics

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    monikermoniker Registered User regular
    Mill wrote: »
    V1m wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    Absalon wrote: »
    Great, so now we wait for Emperor Anthony to check if he currently feels like acting like a decent human being or not.

    That was always going to be the case because they were always going to stay the rulings until the Court decides the issue next term. I just can't wait until June when it comes down and ends all the damn idiocy about this.

    I'll be hugely surprised if it ends all the damb idiocy about this.

    Yeah, I mean look at what the fundie crowd starting doing after Roe V Wade. I'd say, expect them to go full derp but those clowns already are, so just expect the idiocy to get more appalling. Silver lining is that it might really turn enough people off, that the shitty movement loses steam and becomes politically toxic. Or we'll get stuck waiting for the biggest age demographic with a shitty view to die off, so that indulging in the idiocy is no longer politically expedient.

    I don't see how this is at all comparable to Roe or Casey rather than being comparable to Loving. Which, aside from being a direct comparison throughout the arguments over gay marriage, when have you ever heard of Loving v Virginia? I'm sure there will be a few stupid county clerks here and there, but I don't expect there will be all that many, nor would I expect it to last more than a couple years beyond next June.

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    PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    moniker wrote: »
    Mill wrote: »
    V1m wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    Absalon wrote: »
    Great, so now we wait for Emperor Anthony to check if he currently feels like acting like a decent human being or not.

    That was always going to be the case because they were always going to stay the rulings until the Court decides the issue next term. I just can't wait until June when it comes down and ends all the damn idiocy about this.

    I'll be hugely surprised if it ends all the damb idiocy about this.

    Yeah, I mean look at what the fundie crowd starting doing after Roe V Wade. I'd say, expect them to go full derp but those clowns already are, so just expect the idiocy to get more appalling. Silver lining is that it might really turn enough people off, that the shitty movement loses steam and becomes politically toxic. Or we'll get stuck waiting for the biggest age demographic with a shitty view to die off, so that indulging in the idiocy is no longer politically expedient.

    I don't see how this is at all comparable to Roe or Casey rather than being comparable to Loving. Which, aside from being a direct comparison throughout the arguments over gay marriage, when have you ever heard of Loving v Virginia? I'm sure there will be a few stupid county clerks here and there, but I don't expect there will be all that many, nor would I expect it to last more than a couple years beyond next June.

    Unless, of course, the Supreme Court manages to fuck it up and forbids gay marriage at the federal level.

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    TaramoorTaramoor Storyteller Registered User regular
    moniker wrote: »
    Mill wrote: »
    V1m wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    Absalon wrote: »
    Great, so now we wait for Emperor Anthony to check if he currently feels like acting like a decent human being or not.

    That was always going to be the case because they were always going to stay the rulings until the Court decides the issue next term. I just can't wait until June when it comes down and ends all the damn idiocy about this.

    I'll be hugely surprised if it ends all the damb idiocy about this.

    Yeah, I mean look at what the fundie crowd starting doing after Roe V Wade. I'd say, expect them to go full derp but those clowns already are, so just expect the idiocy to get more appalling. Silver lining is that it might really turn enough people off, that the shitty movement loses steam and becomes politically toxic. Or we'll get stuck waiting for the biggest age demographic with a shitty view to die off, so that indulging in the idiocy is no longer politically expedient.

    I don't see how this is at all comparable to Roe or Casey rather than being comparable to Loving. Which, aside from being a direct comparison throughout the arguments over gay marriage, when have you ever heard of Loving v Virginia? I'm sure there will be a few stupid county clerks here and there, but I don't expect there will be all that many, nor would I expect it to last more than a couple years beyond next June.

    Unless, of course, the Supreme Court manages to fuck it up and forbids gay marriage at the federal level.

    I hate how possible that seems.

  • Options
    monikermoniker Registered User regular
    moniker wrote: »
    Mill wrote: »
    V1m wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    Absalon wrote: »
    Great, so now we wait for Emperor Anthony to check if he currently feels like acting like a decent human being or not.

    That was always going to be the case because they were always going to stay the rulings until the Court decides the issue next term. I just can't wait until June when it comes down and ends all the damn idiocy about this.

    I'll be hugely surprised if it ends all the damb idiocy about this.

    Yeah, I mean look at what the fundie crowd starting doing after Roe V Wade. I'd say, expect them to go full derp but those clowns already are, so just expect the idiocy to get more appalling. Silver lining is that it might really turn enough people off, that the shitty movement loses steam and becomes politically toxic. Or we'll get stuck waiting for the biggest age demographic with a shitty view to die off, so that indulging in the idiocy is no longer politically expedient.

    I don't see how this is at all comparable to Roe or Casey rather than being comparable to Loving. Which, aside from being a direct comparison throughout the arguments over gay marriage, when have you ever heard of Loving v Virginia? I'm sure there will be a few stupid county clerks here and there, but I don't expect there will be all that many, nor would I expect it to last more than a couple years beyond next June.

    Unless, of course, the Supreme Court manages to fuck it up and forbids gay marriage at the federal level.

    Sure, if Justice Kennedy suddenly decides to completely reverse himself on the issue and ignores all the precedents he himself set.

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    So It GoesSo It Goes We keep moving...Registered User regular
    moniker wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    Mill wrote: »
    V1m wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    Absalon wrote: »
    Great, so now we wait for Emperor Anthony to check if he currently feels like acting like a decent human being or not.

    That was always going to be the case because they were always going to stay the rulings until the Court decides the issue next term. I just can't wait until June when it comes down and ends all the damn idiocy about this.

    I'll be hugely surprised if it ends all the damb idiocy about this.

    Yeah, I mean look at what the fundie crowd starting doing after Roe V Wade. I'd say, expect them to go full derp but those clowns already are, so just expect the idiocy to get more appalling. Silver lining is that it might really turn enough people off, that the shitty movement loses steam and becomes politically toxic. Or we'll get stuck waiting for the biggest age demographic with a shitty view to die off, so that indulging in the idiocy is no longer politically expedient.

    I don't see how this is at all comparable to Roe or Casey rather than being comparable to Loving. Which, aside from being a direct comparison throughout the arguments over gay marriage, when have you ever heard of Loving v Virginia? I'm sure there will be a few stupid county clerks here and there, but I don't expect there will be all that many, nor would I expect it to last more than a couple years beyond next June.

    Unless, of course, the Supreme Court manages to fuck it up and forbids gay marriage at the federal level.

    Sure, if Justice Kennedy suddenly decides to completely reverse himself on the issue and ignores all the precedents he himself set.

    And also decides to take up a federal issue when all the appeals are from state laws

  • Options
    MillMill Registered User regular
    moniker wrote: »
    Mill wrote: »
    V1m wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    Absalon wrote: »
    Great, so now we wait for Emperor Anthony to check if he currently feels like acting like a decent human being or not.

    That was always going to be the case because they were always going to stay the rulings until the Court decides the issue next term. I just can't wait until June when it comes down and ends all the damn idiocy about this.

    I'll be hugely surprised if it ends all the damb idiocy about this.

    Yeah, I mean look at what the fundie crowd starting doing after Roe V Wade. I'd say, expect them to go full derp but those clowns already are, so just expect the idiocy to get more appalling. Silver lining is that it might really turn enough people off, that the shitty movement loses steam and becomes politically toxic. Or we'll get stuck waiting for the biggest age demographic with a shitty view to die off, so that indulging in the idiocy is no longer politically expedient.

    I don't see how this is at all comparable to Roe or Casey rather than being comparable to Loving. Which, aside from being a direct comparison throughout the arguments over gay marriage, when have you ever heard of Loving v Virginia? I'm sure there will be a few stupid county clerks here and there, but I don't expect there will be all that many, nor would I expect it to last more than a couple years beyond next June.

    I'm fully expecting the toxic tea party, which has gotten a stronger hold on the Republican party to bitch about activist judges when they don't get the ruling they want. Followed by efforts to try and change the law and/or not follow it. Given the current political climate, I'm not convinced that the derp proceeding gay marriage bans being struck down by the SCOTUS will be a few years. Not unless the current conservative movement, running things like the tea party, gets disemboweled for being so awful.

  • Options
    monikermoniker Registered User regular
    Mill wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    Mill wrote: »
    V1m wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    Absalon wrote: »
    Great, so now we wait for Emperor Anthony to check if he currently feels like acting like a decent human being or not.

    That was always going to be the case because they were always going to stay the rulings until the Court decides the issue next term. I just can't wait until June when it comes down and ends all the damn idiocy about this.

    I'll be hugely surprised if it ends all the damb idiocy about this.

    Yeah, I mean look at what the fundie crowd starting doing after Roe V Wade. I'd say, expect them to go full derp but those clowns already are, so just expect the idiocy to get more appalling. Silver lining is that it might really turn enough people off, that the shitty movement loses steam and becomes politically toxic. Or we'll get stuck waiting for the biggest age demographic with a shitty view to die off, so that indulging in the idiocy is no longer politically expedient.

    I don't see how this is at all comparable to Roe or Casey rather than being comparable to Loving. Which, aside from being a direct comparison throughout the arguments over gay marriage, when have you ever heard of Loving v Virginia? I'm sure there will be a few stupid county clerks here and there, but I don't expect there will be all that many, nor would I expect it to last more than a couple years beyond next June.

    I'm fully expecting the toxic tea party, which has gotten a stronger hold on the Republican party to bitch about activist judges when they don't get the ruling they want. Followed by efforts to try and change the law and/or not follow it. Given the current political climate, I'm not convinced that the derp proceeding gay marriage bans being struck down by the SCOTUS will be a few years. Not unless the current conservative movement, running things like the tea party, gets disemboweled for being so awful.

    y0ffodnhgeejsgoevfw40w.png

    Nobody is going to want to talk about this by the 2016 general beyond some very local level officials. Especially after nothing happens. For the same reason that the ACA has hardly been mentioned in most campaign ads this go 'round. The Supreme Court is going to make their ruling and that will be the end of it aside from the gnashing of teeth. And you can only gnash your teeth for so long until its just gums.

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    V1mV1m Registered User regular
    moniker wrote: »
    Mill wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    Mill wrote: »
    V1m wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    Absalon wrote: »
    Great, so now we wait for Emperor Anthony to check if he currently feels like acting like a decent human being or not.

    That was always going to be the case because they were always going to stay the rulings until the Court decides the issue next term. I just can't wait until June when it comes down and ends all the damn idiocy about this.

    I'll be hugely surprised if it ends all the damb idiocy about this.

    Yeah, I mean look at what the fundie crowd starting doing after Roe V Wade. I'd say, expect them to go full derp but those clowns already are, so just expect the idiocy to get more appalling. Silver lining is that it might really turn enough people off, that the shitty movement loses steam and becomes politically toxic. Or we'll get stuck waiting for the biggest age demographic with a shitty view to die off, so that indulging in the idiocy is no longer politically expedient.

    I don't see how this is at all comparable to Roe or Casey rather than being comparable to Loving. Which, aside from being a direct comparison throughout the arguments over gay marriage, when have you ever heard of Loving v Virginia? I'm sure there will be a few stupid county clerks here and there, but I don't expect there will be all that many, nor would I expect it to last more than a couple years beyond next June.

    I'm fully expecting the toxic tea party, which has gotten a stronger hold on the Republican party to bitch about activist judges when they don't get the ruling they want. Followed by efforts to try and change the law and/or not follow it. Given the current political climate, I'm not convinced that the derp proceeding gay marriage bans being struck down by the SCOTUS will be a few years. Not unless the current conservative movement, running things like the tea party, gets disemboweled for being so awful.

    y0ffodnhgeejsgoevfw40w.png

    Nobody is going to want to talk about this by the 2016 general beyond some very local level officials. Especially after nothing happens. For the same reason that the ACA has hardly been mentioned in most campaign ads this go 'round. The Supreme Court is going to make their ruling and that will be the end of it aside from the gnashing of teeth. And you can only gnash your teeth for so long until its just gums.

    How do those percentages look for habitual voters in swing states?

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    spool32spool32 Contrary Library Registered User regular
    looking forward to the SCOTUS ruling against all the bans because

    1) it is the right thing to do
    2) it is consistent with a pro-liberty stance that I prefer.
    3) it will remove an effective club used today to justifiably beat Republicans in the head.

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    spool32spool32 Contrary Library Registered User regular
    edited August 2014
    Suriko wrote: »
    The SCOTUS ruling on abortion didn't address point 3.

    Comparing feelings on abortion to feelings on gay marriage is a mistake. A large mistake.

    spool32 on
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    enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    There is a 0% chance the GOP base and thus GOP politicians would shut up about legal gay marriage if SCOTUS declared the bans unconstitutional.

    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
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    SurikoSuriko AustraliaRegistered User regular
    spool32 wrote: »
    Suriko wrote: »
    The SCOTUS ruling on abortion didn't address point 3.

    Comparing feelings on abortion to feelings on gay marriage is a mistake. A large mistake.

    The idea that a SCOTUS ruling in favour of gay marriage would make the Republican Party throw up their hands in defeat is fanciful at best. Regardless of one's feeling on abortion, it shows that the party isn't going to give up on the basis of a supreme court ruling.

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    spool32spool32 Contrary Library Registered User regular
    Suriko wrote: »
    spool32 wrote: »
    Suriko wrote: »
    The SCOTUS ruling on abortion didn't address point 3.

    Comparing feelings on abortion to feelings on gay marriage is a mistake. A large mistake.

    The idea that a SCOTUS ruling in favour of gay marriage would make the Republican Party throw up their hands in defeat is fanciful at best. Regardless of one's feeling on abortion, it shows that the party isn't going to give up on the basis of a supreme court ruling.

    I don't think it shows that at all, because the two aren't comparable. Honestly I think it's a little bit disgusting to compare them at all. It dramatically trivializes abortion.

    The Republican Party isn't the gay marriage problem, though there's a lot of intersection with it. Far more than with the Democrats, but it wasn't that long ago when a darling of the Democrats declined to do anything about California banning gay marriage.

    Thanks, Obama.

    I don't think the party is dedicated to preventing gay marriage, even though those who are dedicated to doing so are mostly in the Republican party. Maybe it is wishful thinking, but I don't think the younger members of either party oppose it, and I think it'll quickly vanish from the mainstream. By 2020 it won't even be a campaign issue in the Presidential election, except as ammunition loaded by Democrats to fire at their enemies and raise a bit of cash.




    Within a decade, the people most guilty of perpetuating conflict over gay marriage will be far, far rightwing evangelicals and amoral progressive strategists flogging the dead horse to get a little more cash from its hide.

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    spool32spool32 Contrary Library Registered User regular
    edited August 2014

    Thanks, Obama.


    double post but I'm just going to leave that part.

    spool32 on
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    V1mV1m Registered User regular
    spool32 wrote: »
    looking forward to the SCOTUS ruling against all the bans because

    1) it is the right thing to do
    2) it is consistent with a pro-liberty stance that I prefer.
    3) it will remove an effective club used today to justifiably beat Republicans in the head.

    Indeed; just look at how making abortion legal ensured that no republicans got mired in that issue in 2012.

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    V1mV1m Registered User regular
    Better keep voting for them anyway, though. Otherwise they'll never get the message and change.

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    AbsalonAbsalon Lands of Always WinterRegistered User regular
    edited August 2014
    Women are more plentiful than gay people. Losing control over women's rights is a bigger blow against Christian power. Plus, babies? Adorable. So we shouldn't kill them, and that is what abortion is. That's pretty much where we still are with at least 20 % of Americans.

    Absalon on
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    MuddypawsMuddypaws Lactodorum, UKRegistered User regular
    As soon as the mother poops out a baby it's a moocher to these people if born into the wrong family (anyone who isn't them).

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    monikermoniker Registered User regular
    Suriko wrote: »
    spool32 wrote: »
    Suriko wrote: »
    The SCOTUS ruling on abortion didn't address point 3.

    Comparing feelings on abortion to feelings on gay marriage is a mistake. A large mistake.

    The idea that a SCOTUS ruling in favour of gay marriage would make the Republican Party throw up their hands in defeat is fanciful at best. Regardless of one's feeling on abortion, it shows that the party isn't going to give up on the basis of a supreme court ruling.

    When is the last time you heard a politician decry miscegenation?

    Not 'use a racist dogwhistle about it' but actually address the public policy implications of legalized miscegenation.

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    monikermoniker Registered User regular
    V1m wrote: »
    spool32 wrote: »
    looking forward to the SCOTUS ruling against all the bans because

    1) it is the right thing to do
    2) it is consistent with a pro-liberty stance that I prefer.
    3) it will remove an effective club used today to justifiably beat Republicans in the head.

    Indeed; just look at how making abortion legal ensured that no republicans got mired in that issue in 2012.

    How is Windsor and the upcoming Kitchen ruling more comparable to Roe and Casey rather than to Loving?

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    V1mV1m Registered User regular
    moniker wrote: »
    V1m wrote: »
    spool32 wrote: »
    looking forward to the SCOTUS ruling against all the bans because

    1) it is the right thing to do
    2) it is consistent with a pro-liberty stance that I prefer.
    3) it will remove an effective club used today to justifiably beat Republicans in the head.

    Indeed; just look at how making abortion legal ensured that no republicans got mired in that issue in 2012.

    How is Windsor and the upcoming Kitchen ruling more comparable to Roe and Casey rather than to Loving?

    I've no idea.

    I'm just saying it's historically the case that a supreme court ruling doesn't make an issue "settled" in US politics. Or even a vote-loser.

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    monikermoniker Registered User regular
    V1m wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    V1m wrote: »
    spool32 wrote: »
    looking forward to the SCOTUS ruling against all the bans because

    1) it is the right thing to do
    2) it is consistent with a pro-liberty stance that I prefer.
    3) it will remove an effective club used today to justifiably beat Republicans in the head.

    Indeed; just look at how making abortion legal ensured that no republicans got mired in that issue in 2012.

    How is Windsor and the upcoming Kitchen ruling more comparable to Roe and Casey rather than to Loving?

    I've no idea.

    Then maybe you shouldn't?
    I'm just saying it's historically the case that a supreme court ruling doesn't make an issue "settled" in US politics. Or even a vote-loser.

    Historically, that is entirely dependent on the ruling. How many campaign ads are talking about Kelo v New London?

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    So It GoesSo It Goes We keep moving...Registered User regular
    I agree that once SCOTUS lays it down most Repubs are gonna shut up about it or at least recognize the "battle" is lost

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