There's a link on the Failbetter site to the kickstarter for The House of Many Doors, which appears to be some sort of centipede train explorer thing inspired by Sunless Sea. Not linking because kickstarter, but I have been jonesing for more Sunless Sea and hoping for news on the zubmariner DLC... got that instead. Interesting?
It doesn't shock me that they want to start a new project. In the interviews with the Sunless Sea developers, they said there is a lot they got wrong with Sunless Sea - mostly in terms of where the game should have focused more on the RPG or Rogue-like aspects.
Maybe, but I really love the writing and most of the mechanics of Sunless Sea, so I guess I don't think they need to re-invent the wheel. That said, the new project seems to be something they picked up from a guy who was inspired by SS and got brought to the Failbetter offices to hone his art, so that's just a cool story all around.
Sunless Sea has the punishing early difficulty, permadeath, and some of the randomness of a roguelike. It has the rich story, predictable early-game, slow pace, and flat late-game difficulty arc of a CRPG. We even have a default roguelike permadeath save system and an optional more CRPG-like save system.
This is the source of very nearly everything that’s wrong with the game. It’s left us with an uneven difficulty curve. It’s irritated players who don’t relish repeating early story. It exacerbates other issues of player confusion - Sunless Sea is already an unusual game that requires captains to make chancy journeys of exploration to survive, and teaching players to do that rather than sticking to home and grinding is already difficult. We’ve seen a number of reviews that say the game is ‘almost a classic’ and falls short on exactly this point.
Phillishere on
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38thDoelets never be stupid againwait lets always be stupid foreverRegistered Userregular
I think what went wrong is that you are always reading the same stories. They are great the first few times, but since you keep dying/replaying the stories, eventually you are just clicking through without reading anything. A lot of islands only have one story, some don't have any stories at all. I understand why they did it, they take a lot of care in what they write, but I think if each captain had different adventures and stories rather than just the option to make different choices (some of which are mechanically better) in the same stories the game would have a lot more longevity.
Hey, Lucid, I'm basically a non-stop fountain of nightmares if you want 'em, so let me know if you want me to keep them coming, top you up eventually, etc. Feel free to pull handle, receive nightmare whenever.
Edit: You know, out of context, this is pretty fucked up right here.
dporowski on
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MayabirdPecking at the keyboardRegistered Userregular
Did you know that in Fallen London you can only sell 60,000 of the same object at a time?
38thDoelets never be stupid againwait lets always be stupid foreverRegistered Userregular
Don't make Favors in high places, get them from Parties or rare successes.
The only ways to get secluded addresses I know of are the pleasure yacht card and the men from the ministry option on composing work for the empress if not kicked out of court.
Happy Hallowmass everyone! A Fallen London holiday has struck again. I'm available to confess or hear confessions for anyone still playing, and it is another opportunity to seize your destiny for anyone who has not yet.
Happy Hallowmass everyone! A Fallen London holiday has struck again. I'm available to confess or hear confessions for anyone still playing, and it is another opportunity to seize your destiny for anyone who has not yet.
How do you get a destiny? All these years, I haven't gotten one.
In other news, I'm about 800 echoes away from buying an Overgoat!
Happy Hallowmass everyone! A Fallen London holiday has struck again. I'm available to confess or hear confessions for anyone still playing, and it is another opportunity to seize your destiny for anyone who has not yet.
How do you get a destiny? All these years, I haven't gotten one.
In other news, I'm about 800 echoes away from buying an Overgoat!
For this event, you just need to have nightmares and making waves at 5, then just wait till you draw the event card. I think this works better than the fishing and crap on mutton island, a lot less wasted actions. Oh,and if anyone wants to do the whole confession thing, feel free to shoot me a calling card, Name is the same as here.
"You will change beyond all understanding, but something of you will remain."
Nice, thanks for the help. Got a destiny that actually fits my in-game character and goals.
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MayabirdPecking at the keyboardRegistered Userregular
I wouldn't mind some more contacts as well, since we get five free evenings a week and I don't know many people in-game. My name in Fallen London is also the same as my name here.
So anyone else played the Flint? I'm on my way back now and, well....all was not well. Very fun though, and really cool to see the Presbyrite and learn more about the Mountain. Spoilers for my choices
Saved the sister, chose that not all will be well and lost my Deputy (the repentent forger) to stonedome. Drank from the wound, that was a big mistake, lost about 40 levels of persuasive.
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MayabirdPecking at the keyboardRegistered Userregular
WHO WANTS CHRISTMAS CARDS?
Fallen London - you can get seven from the Advent Calendar. I have two left. Different cards give different bonuses to both sender and receiver so I would definitely be up for a couple more exchanges.
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Dr. ChaosPost nuclear nuisanceRegistered Userregular
edited December 2015
Going to give Fallen London another shot before I buy Sunless Sea which has been on my to do list of awesome looking indie games to buy.
Last time I tried FL (the browser game), seemed interesting but I kind of just wandered off after something shiny elsewhere and didn't really get into the thick of the game.
So, bought Sunless Sea during the Steam sale, did a few runs before going to bed...
General question: I explored the nearby vicinity and soon ran out of food and fuel. Is this what I'm supposed to do, then die and start the next character, as I think the loading screen and help manual imply? If so that's fine, but I don't want to run my second, third and fourth characters into the ground the same way if I'm actually supposed to be trading and setting up a sustainable cycle.
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38thDoelets never be stupid againwait lets always be stupid foreverRegistered Userregular
Trading in general is not very profitable until later on. Exploration really pays for itself with port reports and such. If you can find the salt lions and bring that to london that is some good money, only lasts a few trips though. Try bringing more food and fuel on a trip. Usually when I leave london my hold is full of fuel and food and I return nearly starving and nearly out of gas.
I didn't spend echoes on anything but food and fuel. After hitting the four or five nearby ports I only had 2 or 3 fuel & food left, and I can't retire. I guess I could sell the gun, which isn't doing much good.
Basically, I need someone to say yeah, that's normal, just send your ship out and die. 'Cause otherwise I really don't want to.
Yeah, I wasn't expecting to win -- the game says I won't in so many words. But I have some kind of aversion to sending my poor crew & captain out with barely any food or fuel to starve to death in already-explored territory.
I didn't spend echoes on anything but food and fuel. After hitting the four or five nearby ports I only had 2 or 3 fuel & food left, and I can't retire. I guess I could sell the gun, which isn't doing much good.
Basically, I need someone to say yeah, that's normal, just send your ship out and die. 'Cause otherwise I really don't want to.
The answer is yes and no.
There are certain sets of skills and routes that make the early game a lot easier. As others mentioned, the Salt Lions are intentionally designed as an early game profit center. Once you get your groove, accidental death from just tooling around trading and visiting ports becomes rare.
Figuring this out without an Internet guide - and even with to some extent - usually requires a good deal of trial and error. Once you do, the primary dangers of the game come from taking risky chances to visit distant ports or finishing quests.
The biggest piece of advice I would have is to aim for upgrading to either the cargo ship or the corvette as soon as possible. The cargo ship is a prime moneymaker (very useful for building up legacies to make subsequent playthroughs easier), and the corvette can take and dish out a good deal of damage when upgraded. Both are far less fragile than the starting ship. Then aim for townhouse and heirlooms to pass onto the next generation.
So, bought Sunless Sea during the Steam sale, did a few runs before going to bed...
General question: I explored the nearby vicinity and soon ran out of food and fuel. Is this what I'm supposed to do, then die and start the next character, as I think the loading screen and help manual imply? If so that's fine, but I don't want to run my second, third and fourth characters into the ground the same way if I'm actually supposed to be trading and setting up a sustainable cycle.
Open up the map. See the vertical bands dividing the map? If you're not going at least 3 bands over to the east, you likely aren't going to be making enough echoes to recoup what you spent in food and fuel. Turn off your lights if needed to reduce fuel use, only turning them on when you're in a spot with naturally occurring light so you can get the terror reduction from multiple light sources or if you're terror is otherwise getting too high. Eventually you'll learn which ports can be used to refresh supplies and the ones near the edges of the map that stay fixed each run to let you make longer trips.
In the end, you're not a trader. You can make money running certain goods to or from certain ports but those are almost all limited in how often you can run them. Port reports from traveling far are your real source of sustaining yourself.
38thDoelets never be stupid againwait lets always be stupid foreverRegistered Userregular
Eh. As much as I like Fallen London and enjoyed Sunless Sea, I can't see spending on zubmariner. Sunless Sea is sooooo slow. I can see in the video that the speed has not increased. There aren't really any new stories with the hundreds of captains you'll be playing either. There is stuff I still have to do in Sunless get all the achievements and such but its just so slow I keep bumping other games up from my back log.
Eh. As much as I like Fallen London and enjoyed Sunless Sea, I can't see spending on zubmariner. Sunless Sea is sooooo slow. I can see in the video that the speed has not increased. There aren't really any new stories with the hundreds of captains you'll be playing either. There is stuff I still have to do in Sunless get all the achievements and such but its just so slow I keep bumping other games up from my back log.
I believe theres a mod on the workshop that increases the speed of sailing that I keep seeing recommended.
Eh. As much as I like Fallen London and enjoyed Sunless Sea, I can't see spending on zubmariner. Sunless Sea is sooooo slow. I can see in the video that the speed has not increased. There aren't really any new stories with the hundreds of captains you'll be playing either. There is stuff I still have to do in Sunless get all the achievements and such but its just so slow I keep bumping other games up from my back log.
I see someone never upgraded their engine. If anything, the Impeller is too fast... You get places before Something Awaits You.
They also add stories all the time.
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38thDoelets never be stupid againwait lets always be stupid foreverRegistered Userregular
No, I did upgrade my engine, but like you said you still have to wait for SAY. Just the traveling around takes forever, sunlight trade or wine>coffee>parabolan cloth. Eh. I should try killing lifebergs I guess.
Sunless sea is probably the game I'd most like to see get a full triple AAA make over being able to walk around my ship and all these amazing places...it'd be the perfect game.
Oh well just have to settle for almost perfect. Have any of the recent patches added anything that needs a new save to see, it's been absolutely ages since I last played.
Eh. As much as I like Fallen London and enjoyed Sunless Sea, I can't see spending on zubmariner. Sunless Sea is sooooo slow. I can see in the video that the speed has not increased. There aren't really any new stories with the hundreds of captains you'll be playing either. There is stuff I still have to do in Sunless get all the achievements and such but its just so slow I keep bumping other games up from my back log.
The issue that kept me from getting deeper into Sunless Sea was less that it was slow and more that it encouraged repeatedly grinding the same route over and over for money more than it rewarded actually exploring new places and finishing stories. A ton of locations and stories were more or less off the table at the start because there was no way to carry enough food and fuel for a round-trip and still have enough room left over for important quest items, and the first ship to solve that problem without murdering your combat potential cost a FORTUNE.
Eh. As much as I like Fallen London and enjoyed Sunless Sea, I can't see spending on zubmariner. Sunless Sea is sooooo slow. I can see in the video that the speed has not increased. There aren't really any new stories with the hundreds of captains you'll be playing either. There is stuff I still have to do in Sunless get all the achievements and such but its just so slow I keep bumping other games up from my back log.
The issue that kept me from getting deeper into Sunless Sea was less that it was slow and more that it encouraged repeatedly grinding the same route over and over for money more than it rewarded actually exploring new places and finishing stories. A ton of locations and stories were more or less off the table at the start because there was no way to carry enough food and fuel for a round-trip and still have enough room left over for important quest items, and the first ship to solve that problem without murdering your combat potential cost a FORTUNE.
You could always look up and use cheatengine...give yourself a whole load of cash. It is pretty mind numbing running a trade route over and over in a world chock full of interesting content to see.
Eh. As much as I like Fallen London and enjoyed Sunless Sea, I can't see spending on zubmariner. Sunless Sea is sooooo slow. I can see in the video that the speed has not increased. There aren't really any new stories with the hundreds of captains you'll be playing either. There is stuff I still have to do in Sunless get all the achievements and such but its just so slow I keep bumping other games up from my back log.
The issue that kept me from getting deeper into Sunless Sea was less that it was slow and more that it encouraged repeatedly grinding the same route over and over for money more than it rewarded actually exploring new places and finishing stories. A ton of locations and stories were more or less off the table at the start because there was no way to carry enough food and fuel for a round-trip and still have enough room left over for important quest items, and the first ship to solve that problem without murdering your combat potential cost a FORTUNE.
Eh, you can't make grand tours of the map in the starter ship, but if you know where you're going you can get around pretty well. And there isn't much grinding you can do in the early game besides the salt lions.
I find that 90% of the game is opened up to me the moment I start shoveling coal into the engine of a Phorcyd-class Corvette, which really isn't all that expensive. It has the speed, offensive punch, and durability to get me started on any path I want to go down. It can't run cargo that well, but it pulls quest items like a champ, and there's damn few sea monsters that can seriously threaten me in it, especially after obtaining the Memento Mori.
Eh. As much as I like Fallen London and enjoyed Sunless Sea, I can't see spending on zubmariner. Sunless Sea is sooooo slow. I can see in the video that the speed has not increased. There aren't really any new stories with the hundreds of captains you'll be playing either. There is stuff I still have to do in Sunless get all the achievements and such but its just so slow I keep bumping other games up from my back log.
The issue that kept me from getting deeper into Sunless Sea was less that it was slow and more that it encouraged repeatedly grinding the same route over and over for money more than it rewarded actually exploring new places and finishing stories. A ton of locations and stories were more or less off the table at the start because there was no way to carry enough food and fuel for a round-trip and still have enough room left over for important quest items, and the first ship to solve that problem without murdering your combat potential cost a FORTUNE.
Eh, you can't make grand tours of the map in the starter ship, but if you know where you're going you can get around pretty well. And there isn't much grinding you can do in the early game besides the salt lions.
You absolutely can. Or at least I could. Maybe I have a lucky map? I'm not sure.
I have to buy fuel at Khan's Shadow and Mt Palmerson, but between free resupply events, occasional Echo events, some very minor trading (you can only fit like 5 units of whatever in the hold, but it doesn't hurt), and the HUGE number of port reports you get upon your return, it's safe and profitable. Odds of being able to finish an Admiralty commission for Strategic Intelligence is also pretty high.
I find that 90% of the game is opened up to me the moment I start shoveling coal into the engine of a Phorcyd-class Corvette, which really isn't all that expensive. It has the speed, offensive punch, and durability to get me started on any path I want to go down. It can't run cargo that well, but it pulls quest items like a champ, and there's damn few sea monsters that can seriously threaten me in it, especially after obtaining the Memento Mori.
You're totally golden once you get the Phorcyd. But getting 3500 Echoes from nothing with no intermediate upgrades took me ages.
There's a link on the Failbetter site to the kickstarter for The House of Many Doors, which appears to be some sort of centipede train explorer thing inspired by Sunless Sea. Not linking because kickstarter, but I have been jonesing for more Sunless Sea and hoping for news on the zubmariner DLC... got that instead. Interesting?
It doesn't shock me that they want to start a new project. In the interviews with the Sunless Sea developers, they said there is a lot they got wrong with Sunless Sea - mostly in terms of where the game should have focused more on the RPG or Rogue-like aspects.
Maybe, but I really love the writing and most of the mechanics of Sunless Sea, so I guess I don't think they need to re-invent the wheel. That said, the new project seems to be something they picked up from a guy who was inspired by SS and got brought to the Failbetter offices to hone his art, so that's just a cool story all around.
Sunless Sea has the punishing early difficulty, permadeath, and some of the randomness of a roguelike. It has the rich story, predictable early-game, slow pace, and flat late-game difficulty arc of a CRPG. We even have a default roguelike permadeath save system and an optional more CRPG-like save system.
This is the source of very nearly everything that’s wrong with the game. It’s left us with an uneven difficulty curve. It’s irritated players who don’t relish repeating early story. It exacerbates other issues of player confusion - Sunless Sea is already an unusual game that requires captains to make chancy journeys of exploration to survive, and teaching players to do that rather than sticking to home and grinding is already difficult. We’ve seen a number of reviews that say the game is ‘almost a classic’ and falls short on exactly this point.
It's a good read but I think he's being a bit to hard on the game, I think the difficulty curve isn't anywhere that bad. About the worst I could say for sunless sea is trading needed to feel more interesting...as it is you spend a lot of time grinding a familiar trade route that doesn't change. Which he alludes to in trying to get players to actually explore.
Maybe some balancing on how much resources it takes to explore would solve that particular issue.
I'm probably the wrong person to comment really, the game seems more CRPG then roguelike and I vastly prefer that for a story rich world like this one. Maybe he wanted the game to be more roguelike.
Posts
The lead designer's Gamasutra article on the good and bad of designing Sunless Sea is a great read.
Edit: You know, out of context, this is pretty fucked up right here.
I had way too many moon-pearls, didn't I?
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
The only ways to get secluded addresses I know of are the pleasure yacht card and the men from the ministry option on composing work for the empress if not kicked out of court.
How do you get a destiny? All these years, I haven't gotten one.
In other news, I'm about 800 echoes away from buying an Overgoat!
For this event, you just need to have nightmares and making waves at 5, then just wait till you draw the event card. I think this works better than the fishing and crap on mutton island, a lot less wasted actions. Oh,and if anyone wants to do the whole confession thing, feel free to shoot me a calling card, Name is the same as here.
Nice, thanks for the help. Got a destiny that actually fits my in-game character and goals.
Fallen London - you can get seven from the Advent Calendar. I have two left. Different cards give different bonuses to both sender and receiver so I would definitely be up for a couple more exchanges.
Last time I tried FL (the browser game), seemed interesting but I kind of just wandered off after something shiny elsewhere and didn't really get into the thick of the game.
General question: I explored the nearby vicinity and soon ran out of food and fuel. Is this what I'm supposed to do, then die and start the next character, as I think the loading screen and help manual imply? If so that's fine, but I don't want to run my second, third and fourth characters into the ground the same way if I'm actually supposed to be trading and setting up a sustainable cycle.
Basically, I need someone to say yeah, that's normal, just send your ship out and die. 'Cause otherwise I really don't want to.
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
The answer is yes and no.
There are certain sets of skills and routes that make the early game a lot easier. As others mentioned, the Salt Lions are intentionally designed as an early game profit center. Once you get your groove, accidental death from just tooling around trading and visiting ports becomes rare.
Figuring this out without an Internet guide - and even with to some extent - usually requires a good deal of trial and error. Once you do, the primary dangers of the game come from taking risky chances to visit distant ports or finishing quests.
The biggest piece of advice I would have is to aim for upgrading to either the cargo ship or the corvette as soon as possible. The cargo ship is a prime moneymaker (very useful for building up legacies to make subsequent playthroughs easier), and the corvette can take and dish out a good deal of damage when upgraded. Both are far less fragile than the starting ship. Then aim for townhouse and heirlooms to pass onto the next generation.
Open up the map. See the vertical bands dividing the map? If you're not going at least 3 bands over to the east, you likely aren't going to be making enough echoes to recoup what you spent in food and fuel. Turn off your lights if needed to reduce fuel use, only turning them on when you're in a spot with naturally occurring light so you can get the terror reduction from multiple light sources or if you're terror is otherwise getting too high. Eventually you'll learn which ports can be used to refresh supplies and the ones near the edges of the map that stay fixed each run to let you make longer trips.
In the end, you're not a trader. You can make money running certain goods to or from certain ports but those are almost all limited in how often you can run them. Port reports from traveling far are your real source of sustaining yourself.
Steam Profile
3DS: 3454-0268-5595 Battle.net: SteelAngel#1772
I see someone never upgraded their engine. If anything, the Impeller is too fast... You get places before Something Awaits You.
They also add stories all the time.
Oh well just have to settle for almost perfect. Have any of the recent patches added anything that needs a new save to see, it's been absolutely ages since I last played.
You could always look up and use cheatengine...give yourself a whole load of cash. It is pretty mind numbing running a trade route over and over in a world chock full of interesting content to see.
Eh, you can't make grand tours of the map in the starter ship, but if you know where you're going you can get around pretty well. And there isn't much grinding you can do in the early game besides the salt lions.
You're totally golden once you get the Phorcyd. But getting 3500 Echoes from nothing with no intermediate upgrades took me ages.
It's a good read but I think he's being a bit to hard on the game, I think the difficulty curve isn't anywhere that bad. About the worst I could say for sunless sea is trading needed to feel more interesting...as it is you spend a lot of time grinding a familiar trade route that doesn't change. Which he alludes to in trying to get players to actually explore.
Maybe some balancing on how much resources it takes to explore would solve that particular issue.
I'm probably the wrong person to comment really, the game seems more CRPG then roguelike and I vastly prefer that for a story rich world like this one. Maybe he wanted the game to be more roguelike.