Unless we're talking PVP of course. Then it's the most OP shit to date in the game.
"Oh, you were fighting better the entire fight, not taking a single hit while your opponent is almost dead? Too bad, he just got one lucky hit with his parry despite you varying your attacks constantly. Aaand you're dead in one hit!
Balance? No, I've never heard of it, what's that? Can't be too important!"
I like that it gives you an option if the fight is going poorly. And parrying is definitely high risk/reward. If you don't land the parry you get punished pretty badly for it.
It's not high risk/reward, at least not after the latest patch which changed the monastery back so it has instant parry frames again, meaning you can reflex parry pretty much everything.
Also, you can talk about predictability all you want and to a degree you are right, but there's a line where it ends. My weapon only has so many animations, and even with 2 different weapons equipped it's entirely possible that your opponent can parry every single one of your attacks - except two handed R2s which are slow enough to be dodged on reflex.
Add to that the random chance element that they just parry at the right time without possibly knowing what's about to come and still parrying my attack due to sheer luck - which, with loose parry frames and long attack animations is actually a considerable problem in combat - and parrying is as dumb as it gets.
They can't do both. They can't fuck up a parry and dodge your R2 on reflex.
I'm sick of seeing arguments that assume omniscient opponents.
They don't have to. I'm saying you have enought time to distinguish, unless they're too close, in which case you don't have enough time to tell.
Why can't a parry just leave you open to normal attacks for a second or so? Why the ridiculous "critical hit" damage? It introduces nothing but problems.
MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
edited July 2014
Honestly I think it got rolled back because they did a patch and the monastary schimitar nerf was originally a calibration. It's likely it was a bug. It wasn't mentioned in the notes.
Normal parries are not a problem.
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
Parries are a problem in that certain players can make loads of mistakes and be fine, but if you make one mistake against them you're dead. There's no reason not to carry a dagger with you and throw out parries at random times, which is exactly what a lot of people do.
I'd like it if switching weapons disabled your ability to critical hit for a couple seconds.
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MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
edited July 2014
Alternatively you could keep a faster weapon on you, switch to it, and punish parry attempts.
Weapon switching works both ways.
Likely they'll tone down critical hit damage on all weapons at some point.
For example did you know rapier's went through a short period in between calibrations where they couldn't critical worth a damn? They're definitely futzing with these things guys don't worry. Just wait for the next patch I bet they fiddle with the schims again.
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
Yeah it's not unbeatable or anything, just another aspect of the game's design that throws things off balance. It's basic game design to try to avoid situations where every player objectively benefits from doing the same thing, like using lots of buffs and carrying a dagger and wearing heavy armor and backstab protection and even just leveling endlessly. At a certain soul memory tier if you're not doing all those things you're at a significant disadvantage against people who do.
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MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
edited July 2014
Yeah but, again, they are deliberately not adhering to basic conventional game design and have been from the start and people loved them for it.
They throw shit together and then adjust afterwards. Over time they actually are getting better at throwing shit together.
If anything, in this game, they have produced one of the most balanced souls games ever.
You couldn't use strength weapons at all in dark souls 1. It was suicide.
Out of all the pve weapons a mere handful were real, honest to god, viable weapons. And of those weapons several of them had really shit moves in their moveset that you just had to deal with because the other moves were great.
And pretty much all of them were either dex or quality.
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
I'm just worried about how far (or not far) they'll go with their adjustments. Right now when it comes to equipping a dagger, it's a choice between playing optimally or playing at a disadvantage. Ideally it should be a choice between the pros and cons of equipping a dagger, both being valid decisions. There are quite a few of these issues in the game that require significant changes to fix.
Valid decision-making is one of the biggest things that makes games engaging, no matter how far you're veering from conventional game design.
[edit] Yeah it's definitely better than the other souls games in a lot of ways. I still love the game but I just want to love it more.
Deans on
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MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
edited July 2014
Yeah I know, I'm just saying these issues are actually relatively small in the big scheme of things, looking back at the past games.
Why in two or three games they might make something actually good!
God knows if I held them up to my standards of video game design they wouldn't even be allowed into the classroom.
Oddly I don't hate them for it, because I recognise that it doesn't apply here. They're trying their own thing, which really means learning from scratch.
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
On the topic of parries...I got a curved sword, per a suggestion I read somewhere. Holy balls...the parry animation on that thing is ridiculous. I never even considered parrying a viable tactic for me due to my inability to stop swinging my weapons until my character falls over from exhaustion...but that animation on the curved sword is amazing. Just..the bee's knees. The cat's ass. I went back through Lost Bastille to practice my timing and all I heard was that satisfying "schoomph" noise it makes when you successfully parry. L2, *schoomph*, wait a second, R1. Repeat until all of area is dead. I even parried a guy in PvP while climbing Belfry Luna. He invaded with that fancy curved greatsword you can get in the chest in the mansion. He hit me once or twice while I got a solid rhythm down, but I never showed signs of swinging or parrying. He went in for the kill, I parried, rammed my Estoc into his face-hole and it was over. It's insanely easy to parry with this sword.
Edit: If I switch my Estoc or Rapier to 2-handed mode, does backstabs/parries do more damage? Just curious of that's something I should be doing when I poke someone who's laying helplessly on the ground.
StrifeRaZoR on
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
Yeah, I changed to Estoc/Morningstar. It is a combo I am enjoying.
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MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
Edit: If I switch my Estoc or Rapier to 2-handed mode, does backstabs/parries do more damage? Just curious of that's something I should be doing when I poke someone who's laying helplessly on the ground.
It only adds a very small amount.
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
the worst thing is that i'm pretty sure they swiped the reduced lock-on range effect from like dark anor londo or the darkened lost sinner fight and arbitrarily threw it into the shrine of amana just to fuck with people
i needed to be just about in melee range even to throw my goddang lightning spears
the worst thing is that i'm pretty sure they swiped the reduced lock-on range effect from like dark anor londo or the darkened lost sinner fight and arbitrarily threw it into the shrine of amana just to fuck with people
i needed to be just about in melee range even to throw my goddang lightning spears
There's a trick to aiming the spears without needing lock-on, or using binoculars.
With the camera reset and pointing straight ahead, just walk straight towards your target, treating the middle of your head as the sight, effectively.
Then just throw the spear. You'll find that the lightning spear goes pretty much where you're facing. Soul spears and some other spells have a little homing on them, so you can get by without precise aiming, but I've found myself able to snipe with lightning spears like this.
Edit: Obviously, this will only throw horizontally - if your target is on a different vertical position to you, then this trick won't work.
i've been kinda doing that at points, but i can't get it super reliably (which is unfortunate now that lightning spear casts got knocked down by like two thirds - missing blows)
Oh dear lord. I just got my first ever Death From Above attack in PvP. Was in Undead Purgatory (Or Huntsman's Corpse...whichever is after the bridge that you lower with the lever). Guy invades. I'm up on the high ground on the cliff that you have to follow. I see him running from where I came from. Switch to two-handed Estoc mode and fall off the ledge right onto his head. Wham. He has like...20% hp left, which was easily finished off with my amazing prowess with my Estoc/Rapier powerstance combo where I just poke in random directions until shit dies.
so lately I'm grinding cracked red eye orbs in the BoB arena on my powerstance spear char, was up to 25 or so yesterday...today I queue up and my first duel starts early when a guy speedhacks into the prep room before the gate opens, spams corrosive mist at lightspeed to break all my gear and punches me to death. I add him to inquire about his motivations because I am a masochist and of course he's a level 1 steam account named twilight sparkle because bronies lolol.
because he beat me to death through the dragonrider greatshield
pondering just making a run for it
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
edited July 2014
I'm at what I assume is the ends of the undead crypt. The hall of ghost clerics plus knight dudes. I like the Estoc better than the bastard, may change to darksteel katana eventually.
giant/large club has never been better, it's still mostly gimmick but 1000+ damage r2s that can't be interrupted are no joke. never bothered with any other blunt 2h, most people that want to 2h pvp gravitate to greatswords and halberds - I got lag backstabbed for a solid 2k damage earlier today by a mastodon halberd.
sometimes I seriously can't tell if some of these people I'm dueling are hacking or incredible lagfests. when they warp across the arena and backstab me, and as I full-out sprint away I get warped back fifty feet and backstabbed again...it's really toeing the line.
in theory I don't see a greataxe being that much worse for a 2500+ hp tank of a pvp character than the generic claymores and mastodon weapons everyone uses...but anecdotally I don't think I've ever lost to anyone using them and never see them unless it's a guy powerstancing gyrm and drakekeeper axes, which seems to be an oddly popular combo.
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MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
sometimes I seriously can't tell if some of these people I'm dueling are hacking or incredible lagfests. when they warp across the arena and backstab me, and as I full-out sprint away I get warped back fifty feet and backstabbed again...it's really toeing the line.
If yer on PC it's just steam's helpful reconnection. By rights any fight that does that you should have lost your connection already but Steam rerouted it for you.
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
that feeling when you cast great magic barrier before a duel and eat a megahex for zero damage
WHERE IS YOUR GOD NOW
I'm enjoying my "magic magic shield" (drops off the apostles in undead crypt, then I infused it) with 100% magic resistance vs. sorcerers in BoB duels. doubles as a small shield for parry baiting if I just get fucking lazy like a lot of people do and want to risk a 300-400 damage poke for a possible 1500+ damage reward.
fighting some dude with lol agility who is rolling out of everything
manage to sneak behind him a couple of times when he overextends a combo, try to hit him, only to get the little pre-backstab animation and no backstab
Any tips for dealing with a crash that happens in one specific area (running up a ramp in no man's wharf)? Every time I walk up that ramp my computer straight up restarts. No blue screen or anything before hand.
Battletag BYToady#1454
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MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
fighting some dude with lol agility who is rolling out of everything
manage to sneak behind him a couple of times when he overextends a combo, try to hit him, only to get the little pre-backstab animation and no backstab
why you do this to me dark souls
that's one of the better changes
backstabs don't start at 0 frames.
the pre backstab animation starts at 0 frames.
that animation has to hit before you get the actual backstab
so they can roll away in the frames between starting the pre-stab animation and it connecting
but hey if you want 0 frame instant backstabs again...
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
fighting some dude with lol agility who is rolling out of everything
manage to sneak behind him a couple of times when he overextends a combo, try to hit him, only to get the little pre-backstab animation and no backstab
why you do this to me dark souls
that's one of the better changes
backstabs don't start at 0 frames.
the pre backstab animation starts at 0 frames.
that animation has to hit before you get the actual backstab
so they can roll away in the frames between starting the pre-stab animation and it connecting
but hey if you want 0 frame instant backstabs again...
i didn't want the backstab i just wanted to hit them
don't stick me with a slow-ass animation for an attack that ain't even gonna land
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MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
fighting some dude with lol agility who is rolling out of everything
manage to sneak behind him a couple of times when he overextends a combo, try to hit him, only to get the little pre-backstab animation and no backstab
why you do this to me dark souls
that's one of the better changes
backstabs don't start at 0 frames.
the pre backstab animation starts at 0 frames.
that animation has to hit before you get the actual backstab
so they can roll away in the frames between starting the pre-stab animation and it connecting
but hey if you want 0 frame instant backstabs again...
i didn't want the backstab i just wanted to hit them
don't stick me with a slow-ass animation for an attack that ain't even gonna land
it wouldn't have triggered unless it was going to land
he just escaped it
a wee bit quicker and you would have backstabbed him
also it isn't slow to connect it's only slow on whiff
it's actually easily the fastest attack of 90% of weapons if it connects
on whiff it has a big follow through
i know it really sucks and is frustrating I'm just telling you what happened and why
instead of throwing up your hands what you should do, next time, is get in there just that tiny bit faster for the backstab which will be worth all the hits
all of them
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
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MrMiscreantMean motor scooterHiding in the back seat of your carRegistered Userregular
For the longest time, I really had no idea why people thought the Shrine was a pain, since my first character was a "Just do whatever it takes to get through it" jack-of-all-trades who could easily snipe or cast spells at distant targets. But, thinking that character might make the DLC too easy (SL 195), I just played through again with a melee and basic pyromancy Geralt of Rivia themed build, so I have to get right up on all the casters to take them out.
Cruising around Earthen Rise..or Earthen Temple...that place with all the goddamn poison. First time here on a dex-based character, so it's pretty fun. I forgot about the room with the 3 sorceress chicks literally 10 seconds after I cleared it and lit the bonfire up above the boss fog gate. Rested up to repair my weapons then sprinted back down so that I could go ahead and get rid of the snake lady. Oh...right...3 casters in this room. Right as that thought crept into my mind, so did a clusterfuck of fireballs. Not my greatest moment. Luckily 2 of the caster chicks poisoned themselves with the urns and I got to watch them fall over right as I was about to respawn 20 freakin' feet above where I just screwed up.
PS. The Claws are pretty horrible. I equip them when I put my summon sign down so people will assume I'm some sort of awesome dude that has found a niche weapon combo. Works like a charm. As soon as I'm summoned I switch back to Rapier/Estoc and just start rolling my fingers over R1/R2/L1/L2. It's worked this far. Don't fix what ain't broke.
Posts
They don't have to. I'm saying you have enought time to distinguish, unless they're too close, in which case you don't have enough time to tell.
Why can't a parry just leave you open to normal attacks for a second or so? Why the ridiculous "critical hit" damage? It introduces nothing but problems.
Steam ID: 76561198021298113
Origin ID: SR71C_Blackbird
Normal parries are not a problem.
I'd like it if switching weapons disabled your ability to critical hit for a couple seconds.
Weapon switching works both ways.
Likely they'll tone down critical hit damage on all weapons at some point.
For example did you know rapier's went through a short period in between calibrations where they couldn't critical worth a damn? They're definitely futzing with these things guys don't worry. Just wait for the next patch I bet they fiddle with the schims again.
They throw shit together and then adjust afterwards. Over time they actually are getting better at throwing shit together.
If anything, in this game, they have produced one of the most balanced souls games ever.
You couldn't use strength weapons at all in dark souls 1. It was suicide.
Out of all the pve weapons a mere handful were real, honest to god, viable weapons. And of those weapons several of them had really shit moves in their moveset that you just had to deal with because the other moves were great.
And pretty much all of them were either dex or quality.
Valid decision-making is one of the biggest things that makes games engaging, no matter how far you're veering from conventional game design.
[edit] Yeah it's definitely better than the other souls games in a lot of ways. I still love the game but I just want to love it more.
Why in two or three games they might make something actually good!
God knows if I held them up to my standards of video game design they wouldn't even be allowed into the classroom.
Oddly I don't hate them for it, because I recognise that it doesn't apply here. They're trying their own thing, which really means learning from scratch.
Edit: If I switch my Estoc or Rapier to 2-handed mode, does backstabs/parries do more damage? Just curious of that's something I should be doing when I poke someone who's laying helplessly on the ground.
It only adds a very small amount.
i needed to be just about in melee range even to throw my goddang lightning spears
There's a trick to aiming the spears without needing lock-on, or using binoculars.
With the camera reset and pointing straight ahead, just walk straight towards your target, treating the middle of your head as the sight, effectively.
Then just throw the spear. You'll find that the lightning spear goes pretty much where you're facing. Soul spears and some other spells have a little homing on them, so you can get by without precise aiming, but I've found myself able to snipe with lightning spears like this.
Edit: Obviously, this will only throw horizontally - if your target is on a different vertical position to you, then this trick won't work.
i didn't think of the camera reset though
Aaah man this game...this game...
oh, internet
"fuck it, we'll just give them infinite stamina"
THE LAST DUDE
because he beat me to death through the dragonrider greatshield
pondering just making a run for it
the tracking is so awful
giant/large club has never been better, it's still mostly gimmick but 1000+ damage r2s that can't be interrupted are no joke. never bothered with any other blunt 2h, most people that want to 2h pvp gravitate to greatswords and halberds - I got lag backstabbed for a solid 2k damage earlier today by a mastodon halberd.
sometimes I seriously can't tell if some of these people I'm dueling are hacking or incredible lagfests. when they warp across the arena and backstab me, and as I full-out sprint away I get warped back fifty feet and backstabbed again...it's really toeing the line.
played around with the drakekeeper's a bit, then took it for a spin in pvp and got absolutely rekt
i can't hit anyone
If yer on PC it's just steam's helpful reconnection. By rights any fight that does that you should have lost your connection already but Steam rerouted it for you.
WHERE IS YOUR GOD NOW
I'm enjoying my "magic magic shield" (drops off the apostles in undead crypt, then I infused it) with 100% magic resistance vs. sorcerers in BoB duels. doubles as a small shield for parry baiting if I just get fucking lazy like a lot of people do and want to risk a 300-400 damage poke for a possible 1500+ damage reward.
fighting some dude with lol agility who is rolling out of everything
manage to sneak behind him a couple of times when he overextends a combo, try to hit him, only to get the little pre-backstab animation and no backstab
why you do this to me dark souls
that's one of the better changes
backstabs don't start at 0 frames.
the pre backstab animation starts at 0 frames.
that animation has to hit before you get the actual backstab
so they can roll away in the frames between starting the pre-stab animation and it connecting
but hey if you want 0 frame instant backstabs again...
don't stick me with a slow-ass animation for an attack that ain't even gonna land
it wouldn't have triggered unless it was going to land
he just escaped it
a wee bit quicker and you would have backstabbed him
also it isn't slow to connect it's only slow on whiff
it's actually easily the fastest attack of 90% of weapons if it connects
on whiff it has a big follow through
i know it really sucks and is frustrating I'm just telling you what happened and why
instead of throwing up your hands what you should do, next time, is get in there just that tiny bit faster for the backstab which will be worth all the hits
all of them
For the longest time, I really had no idea why people thought the Shrine was a pain, since my first character was a "Just do whatever it takes to get through it" jack-of-all-trades who could easily snipe or cast spells at distant targets. But, thinking that character might make the DLC too easy (SL 195), I just played through again with a melee and basic pyromancy Geralt of Rivia themed build, so I have to get right up on all the casters to take them out.
I get it now. I really get it.
PSN: CitizenXero
NNID: TheFennec
Also, I have no idea at all what is going on with the plot.
I just watch lore videos. Because yea unless you know what to look for, it's hard to know what the cheese is up.
PS. The Claws are pretty horrible. I equip them when I put my summon sign down so people will assume I'm some sort of awesome dude that has found a niche weapon combo. Works like a charm. As soon as I'm summoned I switch back to Rapier/Estoc and just start rolling my fingers over R1/R2/L1/L2. It's worked this far. Don't fix what ain't broke.