OK. This is a doctor. Someone who worked with Ebola patients and then went out while he was feeling a little off but didn't have a fever yet. This time, I'm blaming this guy for not taking an appropriate level of extra care. Back from treating Ebola patients? Feeling a little off? Time to skip bowling night...
I hope he gets good help and survives, and im sure the risk of further infection is very small but seriously. Let's use some common sense here. A little bit of personal health paranoia can be a good thing
He felt sick on Tuesday and then took the Subway on Wednesday. Oh good.
Although it actually mentions that he wasn't presenting symptoms at the time he was on the subway, so the chance anyone could get infected that way is low.
The nurses in Dallas haven't donated any plasma since falling ill, and I'm pretty sure if anyone else comes down with a case, "i donated plasma" will probably come up.
Plasma doesn't just get shipped out ten minutes after you donate it. The screening done on it is incredibly extensive, and the average amount of time from date of donation until date that a product using the donated plasma is used on a patient is a year or more.
When you donate plasma (at least in my area) you're also asked a battery of questions related to CJD as well as living in a list of African countries as well as having sex with a man any time after 1977, having sex with anyone for money or drugs, having sex with anyone who has had sex with anyone for money or drugs, as well as questions relating to whatever the current boogeyman disease is (West Nile, Bird Flu, etc).
Donating plasma and receiving blood plasma products is perfectly safe, ever since "AIDS" became a household term the testing has been very, very stringent.
This doesn't mean the public will act reasonable or smart about things if "Ebola patient donated plasma" ever becomes a headline though.
Geez, okay, the nurse who called the CDC and was told she could fly, sure. But doc, DOC, you were literally in Africa with DWB to treat ebola. I'm not saying you should've isolated yourself for 3 weeks upon your return, but how about not going to the bowling alley at least?
If only bowling night was moved to shabbos and we could have avoided this w
The nurses in Dallas haven't donated any plasma since falling ill, and I'm pretty sure if anyone else comes down with a case, "i donated plasma" will probably come up.
Plasma doesn't just get shipped out ten minutes after you donate it. The screening done on it is incredibly extensive, and the average amount of time from date of donation until date that a product using the donated plasma is used on a patient is a year or more.
When you donate plasma (at least in my area) you're also asked a battery of questions related to CJD as well as living in a list of African countries as well as having sex with a man any time after 1977, having sex with anyone for money or drugs, having sex with anyone who has had sex with anyone for money or drugs, as well as questions relating to whatever the current boogeyman disease is (West Nile, Bird Flu, etc).
Donating plasma and receiving blood plasma products is perfectly safe, ever since "AIDS" became a household term the testing has been very, very stringent.
This doesn't mean the public will act reasonable or smart about things if "Ebola patient donated plasma" ever becomes a headline though.
We used to get that battery of questions, but about 3 or 4 months ago it dropped from a 40+ questionnaire to 15 questions (now 17 with the 2 ebola questions). Now it's "Are you healthy and well today? Did you read the risk poster? Does anything on the poster apply to you?" type of questions. Maybe I'll actually pay attention to the questions when I donate in about 12 hours to get exactly what they say. After the 20th time you tune those questions out.
And yeah, the plasma is tested for everything they can practically test for and the danger of getting anything from a plasma product is so low I think it literally is zero. And you're also right that it wouldn't stop the media from trying to create a panic.
OK. This is a doctor. Someone who worked with Ebola patients and then went out while he was feeling a little off but didn't have a fever yet. This time, I'm blaming this guy for not taking an appropriate level of extra care. Back from treating Ebola patients? Feeling a little off? Time to skip bowling night...
I hope he gets good help and survives, and im sure the risk of further infection is very small but seriously. Let's use some common sense here. A little bit of personal health paranoia can be a good thing
He felt sick on Tuesday and then took the Subway on Wednesday. Oh good.
Jesus Christ....
Far worse then the minuscule chances of infection here is gonna be the potential for absolute panic and everyone with a head cold in NYC heading to the emergency room soon.
OK. This is a doctor. Someone who worked with Ebola patients and then went out while he was feeling a little off but didn't have a fever yet. This time, I'm blaming this guy for not taking an appropriate level of extra care. Back from treating Ebola patients? Feeling a little off? Time to skip bowling night...
I hope he gets good help and survives, and im sure the risk of further infection is very small but seriously. Let's use some common sense here. A little bit of personal health paranoia can be a good thing
He felt sick on Tuesday and then took the Subway on Wednesday. Oh good.
Jesus Christ....
Far worse then the minuscule chances of infection here is gonna be the potential for absolute panic and everyone with a head cold in NYC heading to the emergency room soon.
This is bad no matter how you look at it. If any other infections come up in NYC in the next week it's going to be full blown madness.
OK. This is a doctor. Someone who worked with Ebola patients and then went out while he was feeling a little off but didn't have a fever yet. This time, I'm blaming this guy for not taking an appropriate level of extra care. Back from treating Ebola patients? Feeling a little off? Time to skip bowling night...
I hope he gets good help and survives, and im sure the risk of further infection is very small but seriously. Let's use some common sense here. A little bit of personal health paranoia can be a good thing
He felt sick on Tuesday and then took the Subway on Wednesday. Oh good.
Jesus Christ....
Far worse then the minuscule chances of infection here is gonna be the potential for absolute panic and everyone with a head cold in NYC heading to the emergency room soon.
This is bad no matter how you look at it. If any other infections come up in NYC in the next week it's going to be full blown madness.
God yeah, as soon as someone seems to have maybe caught it from riding the subway, the city is gonna explode with god knows what.
TraceGNU Terry Pratchett; GNU Gus; GNU Carrie Fisher; GNU Adam WeRegistered Userregular
Day 1
It finally happened. Ebola has reached New York State.
I've barred the windows and doors. No one goes outside at night and even during the day we're using the buddy system so that no one gets infected. We're going to need to find more weapons and ammo before too long.
I've already noticed the neighbors disappearing. Some of them I know fled up North, to the frozen wastes of Canada. Others took the easy way out, not wanting to die bleeding from their eye sockets or to infect anyone else.
Already the local stores are being looted. I had to break someone's leg for a gas can.
It should go without saying that the local utilities are down. Wi-fi still works but I expect that will fail before long.
The wife sits and listens to the white noise on the radio, hoping to hear a message or something. I'm not exactly sure she's all there anymore.
The kids don't know what's happening, but they know something did. No more school, no more going over to friends. No more car trips. It's the quietest I've ever seen them, saddest too.
Hopefully it doesn't spread to others, g/f is in the hospital now in Albany, that'd be the next logical place it'd probably end up after NYC I'd imagine, inside NY anyways.
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
Hopefully it doesn't spread to others, g/f is in the hospital now in Albany, that'd be the next logical place it'd probably end up after NYC I'd imagine, inside NY anyways.
but geez, it seems we haven't once done the exact right thing.
the closest example I can think of was the guy that ended up having malaria. It wasn't ebola, but at least the procedure was sound!
Our media keeps a very close eye on everything we do and gladly reports the screw ups while ignoring the successes. Our media is making it seem worse than it is.
Hopefully it doesn't spread to others, g/f is in the hospital now in Albany, that'd be the next logical place it'd probably end up after NYC I'd imagine, inside NY anyways.
It's waaaay early for that kind of speculation.
I know bruh, I was just venting. Doctors are shitty and it would not surprise me if he was at the local country club with a few other physicians and forgot to mention it (or didn't to avoid panic from him).
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
but geez, it seems we haven't once done the exact right thing.
the closest example I can think of was the guy that ended up having malaria. It wasn't ebola, but at least the procedure was sound!
Our media keeps a very close eye on everything we do and gladly reports the screw ups while ignoring the successes. Our media is making it seem worse than it is.
Have there been any properly handled cases in the states yet?
Aside from the ones flown over in the special jets?
but geez, it seems we haven't once done the exact right thing.
the closest example I can think of was the guy that ended up having malaria. It wasn't ebola, but at least the procedure was sound!
Our media keeps a very close eye on everything we do and gladly reports the screw ups while ignoring the successes. Our media is making it seem worse than it is.
Have there been any properly handled cases in the states yet?
Aside from the ones flown over in the special jets?
The two secondary infections (and, by the way the only two transmissions that have actually occurred in the US) aren't dead yet. I assume their prognoses are decent since the media has moved on to this new guy.
Also, "has there been any success (ignoring the successful cases)?" isn't really an effective question.
What's the liklihood you'll survive if treated for Ebola? I see lots of mentioning of people dying, but if you catch it before you're bleeding out your eyes, you're pretty much guaranteed to survive right?
bowen on
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
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AManFromEarthLet's get to twerk!The King in the SwampRegistered Userregular
What's the liklihood you'll survive if treated for Ebola? I see lots of mentioning of people dying, but if you catch it before you're bleeding out your eyes, you're pretty much guaranteed to survive right?
Not really.
I mean you stand a good chance of surviving if you catch it and you live here, because we can pump you full of drugs and keep you hydrated while you shit out your intestines, but it's still got a pretty high mortality rate.
Nope. Treatment helps, but IIRC its like 50% vs 70% mortality
Damn that sucks.
If I was a nurse I'd be taking super extra precautions. I have no idea why you'd treat it as just another day.
I'd also probably just refuse to treat it and risk losing my license. Better to be out of a job than a > 50/50 chance of being dead in a month.
bowen on
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
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MayabirdPecking at the keyboardRegistered Userregular
Of the eight people who've been treated for Ebola in the U.S. (not counting the latest case yet), one died and the rest either recovered or are in recovery. One of the Texas nurses has already been released. 2/3 of the medically evacuated cases to other first world countries have recovered. If you can get the best treatment, we're talking maybe 10-30% mortality at this time, which is a far cry from the 70% mortality in West Africa.
but geez, it seems we haven't once done the exact right thing.
the closest example I can think of was the guy that ended up having malaria. It wasn't ebola, but at least the procedure was sound!
Our media keeps a very close eye on everything we do and gladly reports the screw ups while ignoring the successes. Our media is making it seem worse than it is.
Have there been any properly handled cases in the states yet?
Aside from the ones flown over in the special jets?
Well, if you go over any medical case with a fine enough toothed comb, as with anything you'll find that no case of anything is '100% properly handled'. There are too many moving parts for their not to be some mistakes / error, which is where you fall back onto redundant processes, double checks, etc.
Now, with ebola you're dealing with a new and relatively unique medical issue, and (here in the US, discounting the people specially flown in) you have a sample size of ~4 cases - two nurses, Duncan, and this doctor.
Duncan's case wasn't properly handled, and his initial visit seems to represent an honest to god breakdown in process.
The first infected nurse seems to have been properly handled.
The optics are bad on the second nurse, but an arguable case can be made that she was properly handled. Yes people are shitting themselves over her flying, but her flying home was precautionary, she was asymptomatic, and while slightly higher than 98.6 she was still within the 'normal' range of temperatures.
There aren't enough details to determine if this doctor's case was properly handled or not. I'd say possibly, we'll need to know the extent of his symptoms (or lack there of) before it can really be determined.
Remember, people are human. Symptoms aren't always clear, and a lot of times reporting is post-hoc; after someone gets sick they may realize 'well, I wasn't hungry and it took me a while to get going this morning, I must have been coming down with something.'
For instance, fevers of < 101 aren't really fevers. Once you hit 101, you're sick fucker, get to a hospital.
100 is a normal body temperature, most people don't run that hot, but, you can.
I assume that as a nurse she knows how to properly take her own temperature (it's surprising how many people don't)...but even then, typically thermometers have an error range of +/- 1-2*.
You're right about 101 (if you have reason to think you've got ebola). Otherwise, I think the number is 104 for an otherwise healthy adult.
the doctor is sounds like he handled himself ok. People are shitting themselves that he went out and ate, went bowling and took the train. but that was all before he had symptoms. Once he noticed he had a fever he sequestered himself in his apt and called the hospital. and they took him out in a containment unit to one of the best hospitals in the region.
For instance, fevers of < 101 aren't really fevers. Once you hit 101, you're sick fucker, get to a hospital.
100 is a normal body temperature, most people don't run that hot, but, you can.
I assume that as a nurse she knows how to properly take her own temperature (it's surprising how many people don't)...but even then, typically thermometers have an error range of +/- 1-2*.
You're right about 101 (if you have reason to think you've got ebola). Otherwise, I think the number is 104 for an otherwise healthy adult.
>=103 is dangerous for adults, get your ass to a hospital.
101 is for ebola and/or transplant patients
< 101 is a normal body temp. You can push 101 after some vigorous aerobic exercise too.
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
Nope. Treatment helps, but IIRC its like 50% vs 70% mortality
Damn that sucks.
If I was a nurse I'd be taking super extra precautions. I have no idea why you'd treat it as just another day.
I'd also probably just refuse to treat it and risk losing my license. Better to be out of a job than a > 50/50 chance of being dead in a month.
It's only a 50/50 chance if you actually catch Ebola, which isn't anywhere near guaranteed.
It wouldn't be losing your license and job so much as losing any career in the medical field for the rest of your life.
To be fair though, anyone who becomes a doctor or a nurse and then decides not to treat a patient because they are afraid of their disease has no right to work in the medical field in the first place.
You'll find a lot more people become doctors and nurses not out of a sense of ideal to treat the sick, but because capitalism sucks and it's hard to find a good paying job.
Nursing tends to be one of the easier fields to get into if you can manage to pass biology, and pays substantially well at the lower echelons with starting out.
Like, entry level nurses getting $18 an hour for the normal shifts. So you can see why that would be, I hope.
Yes, I'm not going to begrudge people making a living and not wanting to throw their life and their family's lives away because it offends someone's moral code of what's right and wrong.
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
Well is that 50% including the blood transfusion with antibodies thing?
I mean, I think we're batting much better than that with people who got infected in the US so far but that's a small sample size so who knows.
It's possible that things like that do significantly improve survival rates. I don't think there's enough instances of first-world treatment to fully know how the survival rates are affected
That's not a field you need to be in if your primary desire is money.
Fun fact : nearly everyone you know falls into this category at some level, not many people are altruistic, life is not an episode of ER
I don't program because I love to program, I program because it was a good job option and I'm good at it.
Most nurses don't necessarily "AGAINST ALL HOPE I WILL CARE FOR A PATIENT" most are altruistic to a degree, but not enough to kill themselves over it. For instance, my girlfriend wants to work on a transplant floor because she's a transplant patient, and wants to help and give hope to those kinds of people.
She does not, for instance, give a flying fuck about saving people with ebola, and in fact would be more than willing to quit over it. Forever.
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
That's not a field you need to be in if your primary desire is money.
Fun fact : nearly everyone you know falls into this category at some level, not many people are altruistic, life is not an episode of ER
I don't program because I love to program, I program because it was a good job option and I'm good at it.
Most nurses don't necessarily "AGAINST ALL HOPE I WILL CARE FOR A PATIENT" most are altruistic to a degree, but not enough to kill themselves over it. For instance, my girlfriend wants to work on a transplant floor because she's a transplant patient, and wants to help and give hope to those kinds of people.
She does not, for instance, give a flying fuck about saving people with ebola, and in fact would be more than willing to quit over it. Forever.
Your girlfriend isn't cut out for a medical job if there are aspects of it that she doesn't "give a flying fuck about".
People don't live or die based on your programming skill or your desire to program or not on any given day.
That's not a field you need to be in if your primary desire is money.
Fun fact : nearly everyone you know falls into this category at some level, not many people are altruistic, life is not an episode of ER
I don't program because I love to program, I program because it was a good job option and I'm good at it.
Most nurses don't necessarily "AGAINST ALL HOPE I WILL CARE FOR A PATIENT" most are altruistic to a degree, but not enough to kill themselves over it. For instance, my girlfriend wants to work on a transplant floor because she's a transplant patient, and wants to help and give hope to those kinds of people.
She does not, for instance, give a flying fuck about saving people with ebola, and in fact would be more than willing to quit over it. Forever.
Your girlfriend isn't cut out for a medical job if there are aspects of it that she doesn't "give a flying fuck about".
People don't live or die based on your programming skill or your desire to program or not on any given day.
You're a fucking goose man.
And yes, they actually do.
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
Posts
http://edition.cnn.com/2014/10/23/health/new-york-possible-ebola-case/index.html
Although it actually mentions that he wasn't presenting symptoms at the time he was on the subway, so the chance anyone could get infected that way is low.
Plasma doesn't just get shipped out ten minutes after you donate it. The screening done on it is incredibly extensive, and the average amount of time from date of donation until date that a product using the donated plasma is used on a patient is a year or more.
When you donate plasma (at least in my area) you're also asked a battery of questions related to CJD as well as living in a list of African countries as well as having sex with a man any time after 1977, having sex with anyone for money or drugs, having sex with anyone who has had sex with anyone for money or drugs, as well as questions relating to whatever the current boogeyman disease is (West Nile, Bird Flu, etc).
Donating plasma and receiving blood plasma products is perfectly safe, ever since "AIDS" became a household term the testing has been very, very stringent.
This doesn't mean the public will act reasonable or smart about things if "Ebola patient donated plasma" ever becomes a headline though.
If only bowling night was moved to shabbos and we could have avoided this w
We used to get that battery of questions, but about 3 or 4 months ago it dropped from a 40+ questionnaire to 15 questions (now 17 with the 2 ebola questions). Now it's "Are you healthy and well today? Did you read the risk poster? Does anything on the poster apply to you?" type of questions. Maybe I'll actually pay attention to the questions when I donate in about 12 hours to get exactly what they say. After the 20th time you tune those questions out.
And yeah, the plasma is tested for everything they can practically test for and the danger of getting anything from a plasma product is so low I think it literally is zero. And you're also right that it wouldn't stop the media from trying to create a panic.
Jesus Christ....
Far worse then the minuscule chances of infection here is gonna be the potential for absolute panic and everyone with a head cold in NYC heading to the emergency room soon.
This is bad no matter how you look at it. If any other infections come up in NYC in the next week it's going to be full blown madness.
God yeah, as soon as someone seems to have maybe caught it from riding the subway, the city is gonna explode with god knows what.
This just in: City's blood products not tested for Ebola. What is Obamacare trying to hide in our blood?
"Before Obamacare, there had never been a confirmed case of Ebola in the U.S."
Edit: Spoiler'd for huge.
Really?
-Indiana Solo, runner of blades
Before Ted Cruz was born there had never been a confirmed case of Ebola in the World
With humans anyways.
It finally happened. Ebola has reached New York State.
I've barred the windows and doors. No one goes outside at night and even during the day we're using the buddy system so that no one gets infected. We're going to need to find more weapons and ammo before too long.
I've already noticed the neighbors disappearing. Some of them I know fled up North, to the frozen wastes of Canada. Others took the easy way out, not wanting to die bleeding from their eye sockets or to infect anyone else.
Already the local stores are being looted. I had to break someone's leg for a gas can.
It should go without saying that the local utilities are down. Wi-fi still works but I expect that will fail before long.
The wife sits and listens to the white noise on the radio, hoping to hear a message or something. I'm not exactly sure she's all there anymore.
The kids don't know what's happening, but they know something did. No more school, no more going over to friends. No more car trips. It's the quietest I've ever seen them, saddest too.
At least the weather is going to be nice today.
It's waaaay early for that kind of speculation.
Our media keeps a very close eye on everything we do and gladly reports the screw ups while ignoring the successes. Our media is making it seem worse than it is.
I know bruh, I was just venting. Doctors are shitty and it would not surprise me if he was at the local country club with a few other physicians and forgot to mention it (or didn't to avoid panic from him).
Have there been any properly handled cases in the states yet?
Aside from the ones flown over in the special jets?
The two secondary infections (and, by the way the only two transmissions that have actually occurred in the US) aren't dead yet. I assume their prognoses are decent since the media has moved on to this new guy.
Also, "has there been any success (ignoring the successful cases)?" isn't really an effective question.
Not really.
I mean you stand a good chance of surviving if you catch it and you live here, because we can pump you full of drugs and keep you hydrated while you shit out your intestines, but it's still got a pretty high mortality rate.
Damn that sucks.
If I was a nurse I'd be taking super extra precautions. I have no idea why you'd treat it as just another day.
I'd also probably just refuse to treat it and risk losing my license. Better to be out of a job than a > 50/50 chance of being dead in a month.
I mean, I think we're batting much better than that with people who got infected in the US so far but that's a small sample size so who knows.
Well, if you go over any medical case with a fine enough toothed comb, as with anything you'll find that no case of anything is '100% properly handled'. There are too many moving parts for their not to be some mistakes / error, which is where you fall back onto redundant processes, double checks, etc.
Now, with ebola you're dealing with a new and relatively unique medical issue, and (here in the US, discounting the people specially flown in) you have a sample size of ~4 cases - two nurses, Duncan, and this doctor.
Duncan's case wasn't properly handled, and his initial visit seems to represent an honest to god breakdown in process.
The first infected nurse seems to have been properly handled.
The optics are bad on the second nurse, but an arguable case can be made that she was properly handled. Yes people are shitting themselves over her flying, but her flying home was precautionary, she was asymptomatic, and while slightly higher than 98.6 she was still within the 'normal' range of temperatures.
There aren't enough details to determine if this doctor's case was properly handled or not. I'd say possibly, we'll need to know the extent of his symptoms (or lack there of) before it can really be determined.
Remember, people are human. Symptoms aren't always clear, and a lot of times reporting is post-hoc; after someone gets sick they may realize 'well, I wasn't hungry and it took me a while to get going this morning, I must have been coming down with something.'
100 is a normal body temperature, most people don't run that hot, but, you can.
I assume that as a nurse she knows how to properly take her own temperature (it's surprising how many people don't)...but even then, typically thermometers have an error range of +/- 1-2*.
You're right about 101 (if you have reason to think you've got ebola). Otherwise, I think the number is 104 for an otherwise healthy adult.
>=103 is dangerous for adults, get your ass to a hospital.
101 is for ebola and/or transplant patients
< 101 is a normal body temp. You can push 101 after some vigorous aerobic exercise too.
It's only a 50/50 chance if you actually catch Ebola, which isn't anywhere near guaranteed.
It wouldn't be losing your license and job so much as losing any career in the medical field for the rest of your life.
To be fair though, anyone who becomes a doctor or a nurse and then decides not to treat a patient because they are afraid of their disease has no right to work in the medical field in the first place.
Nursing tends to be one of the easier fields to get into if you can manage to pass biology, and pays substantially well at the lower echelons with starting out.
Like, entry level nurses getting $18 an hour for the normal shifts. So you can see why that would be, I hope.
Yes, I'm not going to begrudge people making a living and not wanting to throw their life and their family's lives away because it offends someone's moral code of what's right and wrong.
It's possible that things like that do significantly improve survival rates. I don't think there's enough instances of first-world treatment to fully know how the survival rates are affected
Fun fact : nearly everyone you know falls into this category at some level, not many people are altruistic, life is not an episode of ER
I don't program because I love to program, I program because it was a good job option and I'm good at it.
Most nurses don't necessarily "AGAINST ALL HOPE I WILL CARE FOR A PATIENT" most are altruistic to a degree, but not enough to kill themselves over it. For instance, my girlfriend wants to work on a transplant floor because she's a transplant patient, and wants to help and give hope to those kinds of people.
She does not, for instance, give a flying fuck about saving people with ebola, and in fact would be more than willing to quit over it. Forever.
Your girlfriend isn't cut out for a medical job if there are aspects of it that she doesn't "give a flying fuck about".
People don't live or die based on your programming skill or your desire to program or not on any given day.
You're a fucking goose man.
And yes, they actually do.