It came down to me vs an Atlas D, a Jenner and a griffin that had no weapons and was cored. I prioritized the atlas, but the griffin keeps jumping in and taking the kill shot that I'm trying to put on the atlas, by the time I burn through him to get to the atlas, I'm cored and the jenner makes short work of me. The moral of the story is that Clan LPL are the bees knees.
Why do clan LRMs fire in a big stream of blue anger, but IS LRMs fire in big blobs of fuck you?
So that you have the chance to get behind cover from some of the clan missiles. If you want to fire clan missiles in an IS mech get the CatapultA1 and chainfire LRM5s
+1
Options
NipsHe/HimLuxuriating in existential crisis.Registered Userregular
Why do clan LRMs fire in a big stream of blue anger, but IS LRMs fire in big blobs of fuck you?
So that you have the chance to get behind cover from some of the clan missiles. If you want to fire clan missiles in an IS mech get the CatapultA1 and chainfire LRM5s
Further: it was a balance decision on PGI's part to make the Clan LRMs not strictly better than IS ones, given that Clan LRMs are half the weight and do damage under 180m.
It is debatable whether balance was actually achieved. As with most things regarding Clan equipment.
Why do clan LRMs fire in a big stream of blue anger, but IS LRMs fire in big blobs of fuck you?
So that you have the chance to get behind cover from some of the clan missiles. If you want to fire clan missiles in an IS mech get the CatapultA1 and chainfire LRM5s
Further: it was a balance decision on PGI's part to make the Clan LRMs not strictly better than IS ones, given that Clan LRMs are half the weight and do damage under 180m.
It is debatable whether balance was actually achieved. As with most things regarding Clan equipment.
Considering the screen shake I'd rather they hit at once and IS LRMs be the ones that stream.
It came down to me vs an Atlas D, a Jenner and a griffin that had no weapons and was cored. I prioritized the atlas, but the griffin keeps jumping in and taking the kill shot that I'm trying to put on the atlas, by the time I burn through him to get to the atlas, I'm cored and the jenner makes short work of me. The moral of the story is that Clan LPL are the bees knees.
Also, pugs can work together!
I was in a game a couple weeks ago on crystal desert, it was 3 on 3 at the end, with everybody damaged.. and I forget the chassis' involved exactly, but 2 of the enemy were lights and one was a clan medium/heavy mech laser sniping us from range. I was in my AC10 Firebrand and in good shape because I'm teh sneaky and have radar dep and actually landed a shot or two on the pair of lights circling us, but not before they took out the Nova (or something, I forget) on my team. One of the lights overheated and shut down getting the killshot on that Nova, and I put a pair of bullets in his CT to kill him. While all of this was going on, the 3rd member of my team, a Battlemaster or Banshee or some other thick IS assault that's not an Atlas, got all his weapons blasted off and actually ran away a short distance from the brawl and shut down!
I was alone, low on ammo, and in the open and tried to close on the laser sniper with an enemy Spider or something slowly taking me apart and alas did not make it. I went spectator and saw that the last guy was actually seeing all this happening from his shut down mech, though I couldn't tell that he had no weapons. I said something like
"It would have been nice if the guy in the Banshee were helping us instead of hiding!" in chat, and he replied "I don't have any weapons!!!", and I said "Well, you could have drawn some fire off us, or gotten in the way, die with honor!" so he powered up his mech and marched his ass directly at the enemy laser sniper and died. At least he didn't make us wait for them to find him.
Why do clan LRMs fire in a big stream of blue anger, but IS LRMs fire in big blobs of fuck you?
So that you have the chance to get behind cover from some of the clan missiles. If you want to fire clan missiles in an IS mech get the CatapultA1 and chainfire LRM5s
Further: it was a balance decision on PGI's part to make the Clan LRMs not strictly better than IS ones, given that Clan LRMs are half the weight and do damage under 180m.
It is debatable whether balance was actually achieved. As with most things regarding Clan equipment.
Considering the screen shake I'd rather they hit at once and IS LRMs be the ones that stream.
They just need to remove most of the screen shake from LRMs. Missiles doing 1 damage a piece shouldn't be hitting like an AC5.
Why do clan LRMs fire in a big stream of blue anger, but IS LRMs fire in big blobs of fuck you?
So that you have the chance to get behind cover from some of the clan missiles. If you want to fire clan missiles in an IS mech get the CatapultA1 and chainfire LRM5s
Further: it was a balance decision on PGI's part to make the Clan LRMs not strictly better than IS ones, given that Clan LRMs are half the weight and do damage under 180m.
It is debatable whether balance was actually achieved. As with most things regarding Clan equipment.
Considering the screen shake I'd rather they hit at once and IS LRMs be the ones that stream.
They just need to remove most of the screen shake from LRMs. Missiles doing 1 damage a piece shouldn't be hitting like an AC5.
If you are weaponless, it is your sworn duty to strap yourself to the chest of the nearest and biggest competent mech and be his meatshield.
Or face hug an enemy mech. It's fun to watch them freak out.
That's probably easier than finding someone competent in mwo.
Speaking of incompetence, Me. My Jager A, I know AMS and Terrain and shit..but I don't understand how I can launch over 1200 missiles in a round and come out with less than 200 damage.
I think I'm going to run this next time, frees me up from having to deal with missile locks to deal with short range threats, and lets me be at least slightly viable if I lose range advantage thanks to the ERLLs
If you are weaponless, it is your sworn duty to strap yourself to the chest of the nearest and biggest competent mech and be his meatshield.
Or face hug an enemy mech. It's fun to watch them freak out.
That's probably easier than finding someone competent in mwo.
Speaking of incompetence, Me. My Jager A, I know AMS and Terrain and shit..but I don't understand how I can launch over 1200 missiles in a round and come out with less than 200 damage.
Makes me wish they'd introduce MRMs
LRMs are horribly inaccurate even in optimal conditions. They are ton-for-ton the worst weapon in the game imo. The sheer tonnage of all the ammo you need to continue launching missiles (even with one launcher) all game is crippling to IS builds. Any team that wins with LRMs probably would have performed better with lasers or ballistic weapons. Being more precise, these weapons actually generate less damage per kill, which may mislead people into thinking LRMs are more effective.
On top of this, Clan mechs can equip double the tubes per ton of an IS mech and fill leftover weight with 1 ton ER Medium Lasers that can perform nearly as well as the Large Lasers available to IS, or half ton ER Smalls that are nearly identical to IS Mediums. They are nearly as good in a brawl as an IS Mech thanks to Clan XL, but also carry an effective LRM setup (lololol no minimum range) in comparison to gimpy IS builds carrying around just LRMs and a Tag laser. Since Clan launchers are already ripple fire, there is no additional penalty in equipping oversized launchers unlike many unfortunate Atlas builds.
For many pubs, they may think 200 damage is a pretty good game. Personally, I get pretty frustrated when I'm putting 30 missile volleys into a mech with a Red CT to no effect.
In conclusion, LRMs aren't good. Clan LRM Mechs aren't actually good, they're just comparable to a good IS build despite wasting nearly all their weight on LRMs. I'd love to hear someone's impressions if they took the LRMs off a Clan build and ran just the backup weapons. I'm pretty confident it would still perform well.
the problem with LRMs is that they're kind of a 'win more' weapon; you can put out a lot of damage with them, but in the situations where they're most effective you're just killing the enemy a little bit faster than you would've anyway. Other setups have a lot more ability to actually swing the outcome of a game.
every once in a while you'll get a pub team on caustic that accidentally combines NARV/UAC with LRMs in a way that's really effective and that leads people to complain about the 'LRM meta,' but there are just many games where LRMs get shut down by ECM and map features.
clan LRMs really are a lot worse than their IS counterparts though; they get eaten up by AMS and the stream on 15s and 20s is hilariously long
it was the smallest on the list but
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
the problem with LRMs is that they're kind of a 'win more' weapon; you can put out a lot of damage with them, but in the situations where they're most effective you're just killing the enemy a little bit faster than you would've anyway. Other setups have a lot more ability to actually swing the outcome of a game.
every once in a while you'll get a pub team on caustic that accidentally combines NARV/UAC with LRMs in a way that's really effective and that leads people to complain about the 'LRM meta,' but there are just many games where LRMs get shut down by ECM and map features.
clan LRMs really are a lot worse than their IS counterparts though; they get eaten up by AMS and the stream on 15s and 20s is hilariously long
A Clan LRM 15 loses about 10 missiles against AMS in my experience. With two LRM 15's (7 tons, funny, 3 lighter than an IS LRM20), that's a 20 missile barrage. So, at the cost of one missile hardpoint, they neutralize my AMS.
If my AMS spent more of its effectiveness on missiles and not the side of a hill, I might not mind the 1.5+ ton cost. Not to mention the amount of extra ammo a Clan mech can carry in LRMs can overwhelm my AMS ammo supply. And, don't forget, Clans get twice the AMS ammo per ton (seriously?)
Fortunately, no they don't. But with a single CLRM15 weighing 3.5 tons, they can carry 630 missiles without exceeding the weight of an IS LRM15. With the 8 ton minimum IS spends to run an LRM15, a Clanner can pack 810 missiles. That's almost enough to expend 1 ton of IS AMS ammo.
I see LRMs as an closing weapon. Most of the time on my bigger mechs I keep a pair of lrm5s. Just a ton or two of ammo and it works pretty well. Launch some salvos on the way. I tend to watch the fight while launching and then move in for my main weapons for kills.
Though my current Awesome is carrying 2xlrm15s with 720 missiles but I still see the main weapons are the medium lasers and the ppcs.
Though right now I would say the lrm army with the shake is pretty nuts. You can be cored by some of the more organized groups with lrm boats.
I wouldn't call LRMs ineffective in any way. I use the Stormcrow with LRMs, SRMs, & NARC and it's probably my highest W/L & KDR mech. Though noticeably it's performance is lacking when we do more organized group play (and double or triple stacked ECM shuts me down). The trick, like any other weapon system in MWO online (or any form of warfare really) is positioning. That Stalker who is firing his LRMs from near max range with no way to verify that he has good targets is a terrible player. He might do more damage boating LL, but he'd probably still get killed out without breaking 200 damage. When I play in the Stormcrow missile truck or Goldenboy or Founder's Catapult, I'm either right behind the pushing assaults & heavies or else on the flanks looking for the snipers who don't have cover from my direction. I consistently do 500 damage in those mechs (though I usually bring about 1080 missiles).
Has anyone tried the screen shake module? I can fire pretty well through the screen shake (your reticle doesn't move) but I can't through the explosion and smoke.
I'm working my way through firestarters and am trying to basic my -S right now. My current build has 1xERLLas 3xMLas 4xJJ XL295. What does everyone else run on the -S? I had been using 6xMLas but that seemed to lack any range. Should I need a form of poke with a mech that goes ~140kph? I'm new to piloting lights.
I'm working my way through firestarters and am trying to basic my -S right now. My current build has 1xERLLas 3xMLas 4xJJ XL295. What does everyone else run on the -S? I had been using 6xMLas but that seemed to lack any range. Should I need a form of poke with a mech that goes ~140kph? I'm new to piloting lights.
The highlight of the -S is that dual AMS, so you simply find a build that you like and then subtract 2-3 tons for the dual AMS + ammo. As for piloting lights, there are generally two playstyles. First is the hide and poke, which you commonly see from ECM spiders and ravens. The idea there is that you have one or two large lasers that you use to attack from range and ECM to make you untargetable. Then you poke mechs in the back and flanks until they spot you, then you run away and fight again later. The second playstyle is the skirmishing light that runs around during the brawl coring out bigger mechs from behind. In that one you usually see 4-6 ML or SPLs, JJ, and as much cooling as you can take so as not to sacrifice speed. You always keep moving (though I usually cruise at about 1/2 to 2/3 speed when to help me aim better) and run and duck behind cover as soon as attention is sent your way. Additionally with either playstyle you're secondary job is to hunt for lone heavy and assault mechs who have strayed from the pack. Usually you can use your superior maneuverability to simply take them out without taking much damage in return. This is tougher to do against crafty assaults who place their backs against the wall and before you've elited your mech. If you're having too much trouble staying in their rear arc then it's much safer and just as productive to simply harass them. The idea here is that you're taking a mech 2-3 times your weight out of the main fight to give your group a weight advantage. Rarely does this amount to anything in PUGs.
Playing lights in bullet format:
- pick either LL or MLs. Once you feel comfortable aiming dual SRM4s are also nice.
- run and duck behind cover when you are shot at. Don't keep fighting a bigger mech.
- if you're being chased by another light lead them back to where your team is.
- try to keep them locked on if possible to get some LRM support, but don't count on it to save your life.
- use your superior speed to always be where you're needed most: either on a flank or where the brawl is.
- don't stand still. Even when taking a capture point I'll either be completely behind cover or running around in a tight circle.
- manage heat by cooling down away from the fight. Never shut down in the middle of a fight or you will instantly be legged and then killed.
I may have accidentally, somehow, hit Farangu's Dragon with streaks, and Beorn's Timberwolf with LRMS when he walked in front of me.
I did intentionally sweep Mazzy's Awesome legs with lasers however, after he revealed heretical Marik sympathies.
Marik is the true light, you will see it at some point.
But also I think my last game one of you guys killed me. Not sure which one. One of you mentioned a team kill and what happened was I killed the awesome in front of me and the shots went through and finished me.
I may have accidentally, somehow, hit Farangu's Dragon with streaks, and Beorn's Timberwolf with LRMS when he walked in front of me.
I did intentionally sweep Mazzy's Awesome legs with lasers however, after he revealed heretical Marik sympathies.
Marik is the true light, you will see it at some point.
But also I think my last game one of you guys killed me. Not sure which one. One of you mentioned a team kill and what happened was I killed the awesome in front of me and the shots went through and finished me.
Every game I am going to sweep the leg, Until the searing light of truth purges you of these heretical notions.
I may have accidentally, somehow, hit Farangu's Dragon with streaks, and Beorn's Timberwolf with LRMS when he walked in front of me.
I did intentionally sweep Mazzy's Awesome legs with lasers however, after he revealed heretical Marik sympathies.
Marik is the true light, you will see it at some point.
But also I think my last game one of you guys killed me. Not sure which one. One of you mentioned a team kill and what happened was I killed the awesome in front of me and the shots went through and finished me.
Every game I am going to sweep the leg, Until the searing light of truth purges you of these heretical notions.
I think you will have a long way to go.
Marik has been my favorite for a long time.
Mostly thanks to some of the FWL novels.
0
Options
GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
LRM's are neither as good as some pubbies make them out to be, or as bad as some people here make them out to be. They are a support weapon, and for that purpose, they work as advertised. On my TBR's I use them as gap closers more than anything else. My main damage is still going to be my lasers, but when I'm BVR I have missiles to lob over at targets painted by scouts.
I am running a DRG-5N tonight, the only Dragon I've got. I really need to unlock speed tweak. I'm not even sure if I'm running that good of a build. I have a 340XL (I think? Not in game right now), 2x ERLLAS, 3x MG (2t), 1x SRM 6 (2.5t), AMS (1.5t), max armor, DHS. It seems to work just fine as an all-rounder and especially as a brawler, but the armor seems nearly too light. I think with a bit more speed I would have greater success.
I may have accidentally, somehow, hit Farangu's Dragon with streaks, and Beorn's Timberwolf with LRMS when he walked in front of me.
I did intentionally sweep Mazzy's Awesome legs with lasers however, after he revealed heretical Marik sympathies.
Marik is the true light, you will see it at some point.
But also I think my last game one of you guys killed me. Not sure which one. One of you mentioned a team kill and what happened was I killed the awesome in front of me and the shots went through and finished me.
Every game I am going to sweep the leg, Until the searing light of truth purges you of these heretical notions.
I think you will have a long way to go.
Marik has been my favorite for a long time.
Mostly thanks to some of the FWL novels.
I like Marik a lot myself but there were... like two FWL-focused novels tops and they were horrible.
Thinking about putting the standard 260 back into it and making it a SRM brawler.
SRM brawlers are pretty sweet, but I think Mediums do it better. With the JM6-A I'd probably just go with 2AC10s or whatever other flavor of boom you're used to. I don't think of the Jager when i think of LRM boats. My philosophy with LRMs is different though; see my post above.
Posts
It came down to me vs an Atlas D, a Jenner and a griffin that had no weapons and was cored. I prioritized the atlas, but the griffin keeps jumping in and taking the kill shot that I'm trying to put on the atlas, by the time I burn through him to get to the atlas, I'm cored and the jenner makes short work of me. The moral of the story is that Clan LPL are the bees knees.
Also, pugs can work together!
So that you have the chance to get behind cover from some of the clan missiles. If you want to fire clan missiles in an IS mech get the CatapultA1 and chainfire LRM5s
Further: it was a balance decision on PGI's part to make the Clan LRMs not strictly better than IS ones, given that Clan LRMs are half the weight and do damage under 180m.
It is debatable whether balance was actually achieved. As with most things regarding Clan equipment.
Considering the screen shake I'd rather they hit at once and IS LRMs be the ones that stream.
I was in a game a couple weeks ago on crystal desert, it was 3 on 3 at the end, with everybody damaged.. and I forget the chassis' involved exactly, but 2 of the enemy were lights and one was a clan medium/heavy mech laser sniping us from range. I was in my AC10 Firebrand and in good shape because I'm teh sneaky and have radar dep and actually landed a shot or two on the pair of lights circling us, but not before they took out the Nova (or something, I forget) on my team. One of the lights overheated and shut down getting the killshot on that Nova, and I put a pair of bullets in his CT to kill him. While all of this was going on, the 3rd member of my team, a Battlemaster or Banshee or some other thick IS assault that's not an Atlas, got all his weapons blasted off and actually ran away a short distance from the brawl and shut down!
I was alone, low on ammo, and in the open and tried to close on the laser sniper with an enemy Spider or something slowly taking me apart and alas did not make it. I went spectator and saw that the last guy was actually seeing all this happening from his shut down mech, though I couldn't tell that he had no weapons. I said something like
"It would have been nice if the guy in the Banshee were helping us instead of hiding!" in chat, and he replied "I don't have any weapons!!!", and I said "Well, you could have drawn some fire off us, or gotten in the way, die with honor!" so he powered up his mech and marched his ass directly at the enemy laser sniper and died. At least he didn't make us wait for them to find him.
They just need to remove most of the screen shake from LRMs. Missiles doing 1 damage a piece shouldn't be hitting like an AC5.
That shake is completely disabling at times.
So frustrating.
In other news liking my Awesome.
Not happy with my pubbies.
Or face hug an enemy mech. It's fun to watch them freak out.
That's probably easier than finding someone competent in mwo.
Speaking of incompetence, Me. My Jager A, I know AMS and Terrain and shit..but I don't understand how I can launch over 1200 missiles in a round and come out with less than 200 damage.
Makes me wish they'd introduce MRMs
I think I'm going to run this next time, frees me up from having to deal with missile locks to deal with short range threats, and lets me be at least slightly viable if I lose range advantage thanks to the ERLLs
LRMs are horribly inaccurate even in optimal conditions. They are ton-for-ton the worst weapon in the game imo. The sheer tonnage of all the ammo you need to continue launching missiles (even with one launcher) all game is crippling to IS builds. Any team that wins with LRMs probably would have performed better with lasers or ballistic weapons. Being more precise, these weapons actually generate less damage per kill, which may mislead people into thinking LRMs are more effective.
On top of this, Clan mechs can equip double the tubes per ton of an IS mech and fill leftover weight with 1 ton ER Medium Lasers that can perform nearly as well as the Large Lasers available to IS, or half ton ER Smalls that are nearly identical to IS Mediums. They are nearly as good in a brawl as an IS Mech thanks to Clan XL, but also carry an effective LRM setup (lololol no minimum range) in comparison to gimpy IS builds carrying around just LRMs and a Tag laser. Since Clan launchers are already ripple fire, there is no additional penalty in equipping oversized launchers unlike many unfortunate Atlas builds.
For many pubs, they may think 200 damage is a pretty good game. Personally, I get pretty frustrated when I'm putting 30 missile volleys into a mech with a Red CT to no effect.
In conclusion, LRMs aren't good. Clan LRM Mechs aren't actually good, they're just comparable to a good IS build despite wasting nearly all their weight on LRMs. I'd love to hear someone's impressions if they took the LRMs off a Clan build and ran just the backup weapons. I'm pretty confident it would still perform well.
every once in a while you'll get a pub team on caustic that accidentally combines NARV/UAC with LRMs in a way that's really effective and that leads people to complain about the 'LRM meta,' but there are just many games where LRMs get shut down by ECM and map features.
clan LRMs really are a lot worse than their IS counterparts though; they get eaten up by AMS and the stream on 15s and 20s is hilariously long
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
A Clan LRM 15 loses about 10 missiles against AMS in my experience. With two LRM 15's (7 tons, funny, 3 lighter than an IS LRM20), that's a 20 missile barrage. So, at the cost of one missile hardpoint, they neutralize my AMS.
If my AMS spent more of its effectiveness on missiles and not the side of a hill, I might not mind the 1.5+ ton cost. Not to mention the amount of extra ammo a Clan mech can carry in LRMs can overwhelm my AMS ammo supply. And, don't forget, Clans get twice the AMS ammo per ton (seriously?)
Fortunately, no they don't. But with a single CLRM15 weighing 3.5 tons, they can carry 630 missiles without exceeding the weight of an IS LRM15. With the 8 ton minimum IS spends to run an LRM15, a Clanner can pack 810 missiles. That's almost enough to expend 1 ton of IS AMS ammo.
Though my current Awesome is carrying 2xlrm15s with 720 missiles but I still see the main weapons are the medium lasers and the ppcs.
Though right now I would say the lrm army with the shake is pretty nuts. You can be cored by some of the more organized groups with lrm boats.
Has anyone tried the screen shake module? I can fire pretty well through the screen shake (your reticle doesn't move) but I can't through the explosion and smoke.
I was when I quit today.
What is this, a year and a half after launch? And the netcode still doesn't work right.
I did intentionally sweep Mazzy's Awesome legs with lasers however, after he revealed heretical Marik sympathies.
Probably just the new server still being worked in. Did you guys get better ping now? I forgot to check when I was playing Saturday.
The highlight of the -S is that dual AMS, so you simply find a build that you like and then subtract 2-3 tons for the dual AMS + ammo. As for piloting lights, there are generally two playstyles. First is the hide and poke, which you commonly see from ECM spiders and ravens. The idea there is that you have one or two large lasers that you use to attack from range and ECM to make you untargetable. Then you poke mechs in the back and flanks until they spot you, then you run away and fight again later. The second playstyle is the skirmishing light that runs around during the brawl coring out bigger mechs from behind. In that one you usually see 4-6 ML or SPLs, JJ, and as much cooling as you can take so as not to sacrifice speed. You always keep moving (though I usually cruise at about 1/2 to 2/3 speed when to help me aim better) and run and duck behind cover as soon as attention is sent your way. Additionally with either playstyle you're secondary job is to hunt for lone heavy and assault mechs who have strayed from the pack. Usually you can use your superior maneuverability to simply take them out without taking much damage in return. This is tougher to do against crafty assaults who place their backs against the wall and before you've elited your mech. If you're having too much trouble staying in their rear arc then it's much safer and just as productive to simply harass them. The idea here is that you're taking a mech 2-3 times your weight out of the main fight to give your group a weight advantage. Rarely does this amount to anything in PUGs.
Playing lights in bullet format:
- pick either LL or MLs. Once you feel comfortable aiming dual SRM4s are also nice.
- run and duck behind cover when you are shot at. Don't keep fighting a bigger mech.
- if you're being chased by another light lead them back to where your team is.
- try to keep them locked on if possible to get some LRM support, but don't count on it to save your life.
- use your superior speed to always be where you're needed most: either on a flank or where the brawl is.
- don't stand still. Even when taking a capture point I'll either be completely behind cover or running around in a tight circle.
- manage heat by cooling down away from the fight. Never shut down in the middle of a fight or you will instantly be legged and then killed.
Marik is the true light, you will see it at some point.
But also I think my last game one of you guys killed me. Not sure which one. One of you mentioned a team kill and what happened was I killed the awesome in front of me and the shots went through and finished me.
Every game I am going to sweep the leg, Until the searing light of truth purges you of these heretical notions.
I think you will have a long way to go.
Marik has been my favorite for a long time.
Mostly thanks to some of the FWL novels.
I like Marik a lot myself but there were... like two FWL-focused novels tops and they were horrible.
Thinking about putting the standard 260 back into it and making it a SRM brawler.
There was an alleged fix for exactly this problem in one of the last couple patches, but it appears to have been unsuccessful.
SRM brawlers are pretty sweet, but I think Mediums do it better. With the JM6-A I'd probably just go with 2AC10s or whatever other flavor of boom you're used to. I don't think of the Jager when i think of LRM boats. My philosophy with LRMs is different though; see my post above.