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Women, basketball, hos and radio hosts

CaswynbenCaswynben Registered User
edited April 2007 in Debate and/or Discourse
Recently, a radio personality, Don Imus, made some disparaging comments about the Womens basketball team at Rutger's university. Those that didn't watch should know that this women's team made it to the NCAA finals for the first time ever. Don Imus had this to say about them on his show :
Don Imus wrote:
That's some nappy-headed hos there, I'm going to tell you that now (laughing). Man, that's some ... whoo ..
What was he thinking? Who knows. The dude was suspended from his show and has been profusely apologizing to anyone that will listen, probably being pushed by his higher ups to rectify this situation, lest he lose his job. What I would like to talk about here is how the Rutger's team responded to the man's statements.
Now, every single day, the coaches, ESPN, the players, hell, Charles Barkley are all weighing in on this issue. They have held several press conferences, a face meeting with the radio personality, supports groups. Quotes like these have been floating around the internet :
We were stripped of this moment by the degrading comments made by Mr. Imus last Wednesday. We were insulted and, yes, we were angry.
"We have all been physically, mentally and emotionally spent. But we also understood a long time ago that no one can make you feel inferior unless you allow them … that we can't let other people steal our joy."
Dan Imus had two of his advertisers pull out
http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2007/04/11/ap3601305.html

All I have to say about this is, why? While I find Mr. Imus' comments to be offensive and stupid, why do we blow up what he said to this kind of proportions? These girls are at the top of their game, and they let a jackass like this bring them down. Hell, they made demands of this guy. If he wants to say something stupid, sexist and racist, let him. That is his opinion and doesn't effect your accomplishments. I would understand if maybe this was their coach, but this is a complete stranger.
Why do we associate so much harm with what amount to only words?
Don Imus isn't the first dude to say something dumb on the radio, why is this one being given so much attention?
How much is too much? The guy has apologized, when will he be able to get back to his life as a radio comedian.
Are these girls perhaps playing the victim a little too much?

Caswynben on
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Posts

  • electricitylikesmeelectricitylikesme Registered User regular
    edited April 2007
    I don't get it, are you saying Dom Imus shouldn't be losing his job and the rest of his career for managing to fail to learn any sort of modicum of respect for women apparently?

  • MalkorMalkor Registered User regular
    edited April 2007
    These aren't professional basketball players, or the semi-professionals of the NCAA men's teams. These are young women who were attacked on a show shown nationwide because of their race primarily and because the don't conform to conventional standards of beauty. I think the two weeks suspension and loss of some of his sponsors is a fitting punishment, I don't think he should be fired, 'cause he is a shock jock. He just needs to keep his shock less personal.

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  • The CatThe Cat Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited April 2007
    its more the race thing that's bothersome, but yeah, apparently consequences are only for non-famous people.

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  • ElendilElendil Registered User regular
    edited April 2007
    Hasn't this happened before to him?

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  • ZsetrekZsetrek Registered User regular
    edited April 2007
    nappy-head

    I'll admit - I had to use urban dictionary.

  • TrevorTrevor Registered User regular
    edited April 2007
    I guess I don't get it. People put enough stock in what he says to be honestly offended when he says something? I seriously can't wrap my head around being bothered by something an old white guy says on morning radio. Sure, he happens to be a racist sexist jackass. The only difference between him and thousands of other people is that someone gave him a microphone, it's not like he speaks for the majority of people and pointed out some sort of fundamental truth that everyone else was ignoring.

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  • CaswynbenCaswynben Registered User
    edited April 2007
    I don't get it, are you saying Dom Imus shouldn't be losing his job and the rest of his career for managing to fail to learn any sort of modicum of respect for women apparently?
    Of course not. He should be fired, but I don't think there should be this much media hubbub over the incident. I am more disappointed in the players, however, who are getting this messed up over an insult from a stranger.

  • ElendilElendil Registered User regular
    edited April 2007
    Trevor wrote: »
    I guess I don't get it. People put enough stock in what he says to be honestly offended when he says something? I seriously can't wrap my head around being bothered by something an old white guy says on morning radio. Sure, he happens to be a racist sexist jackass. The only difference between him and thousands of other people is that someone gave him a microphone, it's not like he speaks for the majority of people and pointed out some sort of fundamental truth that everyone else was ignoring.
    Do you think he should be paid to do this?

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  • MalkorMalkor Registered User regular
    edited April 2007
    What? If some stranger insulted you on television and then the media kept playing it over and over and over again, I think you'd be pretty 'messed up'. No sane person would just shrug their shoulders or laugh it off if their name and image were plastered all over the place.

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  • CaswynbenCaswynben Registered User
    edited April 2007
    I am pretty sure if the team had not blown the whole situation up, it would not be all over the news.

  • MalkorMalkor Registered User regular
    edited April 2007
    Caswynben wrote: »
    I am pretty sure if the team had not blown the whole situation up, it would not be all over the news.

    Do you mean how they went on television yesterday, six days after what he said? Is that blowing the whole situation up?


    edit: Once this type of story is picked up by an orginisation like Media Matters or the AP, its going to get national attention. If I put a video of you doing something you liked and made some stupid racist or prejudicial comments, then put it live on air for the world to see, you'd probably freak out too after it's played a hundreds of times a day.

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  • CalciumCalcium Registered User
    edited April 2007
    Feel free to make a sexist or racist joke to your friends, and they'll laugh while secretly thinking less of you. A public figure who could possibly influence people to act like him have no business acting that way. The media attention is over the top, but maybe he'll learn his lesson from that.

  • MentalExerciseMentalExercise Indefenestrable Registered User regular
    edited April 2007
    Imus' shock jock persona won't protect him this time. Unfortunately his ratings will. Although in the long run this will damage those ratings greatly. The fact that it was a comment more than a rant is also mitigating. He will, over the long haul, lose a lot of ratings, and get canceled years earlier than he would have otherwise. I'm on the fence on this one. I don't beleive in controlling peoples' language in a general sense, but this was way over the line. I think maybe he should be allowed to keep his job, but get kneecapped. That seems like the only logical solution.

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  • japanjapan Registered User regular
    edited April 2007
    Trevor wrote: »
    I guess I don't get it. People put enough stock in what he says to be honestly offended when he says something? I seriously can't wrap my head around being bothered by something an old white guy says on morning radio. Sure, he happens to be a racist sexist jackass. The only difference between him and thousands of other people is that someone gave him a microphone, it's not like he speaks for the majority of people and pointed out some sort of fundamental truth that everyone else was ignoring.

    Boom. There's the difference. If what you say is going to be transmitted to a national audience, it would make sense to make sure your statements aren't going to offend a significant proportion of that audience. Particularly if it's a medium that isn't concerned with making political statements like sports journalism.

    People listen to him to hear about sports. The broadcaster makes money by targetting ads to that audience. If the person you employ to retain that audience starts reducing it instead then they've become a liability (the excessive apologising and symbolic hauling over hot coals is intended to be "damage control"). People aren't going to listen to a broadcaster that insults them.

  • MittenMitten Registered User
    edited April 2007
    I think Don Imus is an asshole. I think everyone else is twice the asshole for sensationalizing the incident and plastering it all over the news.

  • MalkorMalkor Registered User regular
    edited April 2007
    Seriously. All this time spent talking about his show could be better used talking about Anna Nicole Smith's (RIP) baby.

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  • nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    edited April 2007
    People stll listne to Imus?

    What he said was dumb but quit whining already. The I'm scarred for life shit is ridiculous(rediculous even!). Are people really offended this easily or is the media just a bunch of wanks?

  • TrevorTrevor Registered User regular
    edited April 2007
    Elendil wrote: »
    Do you think he should be paid to do this?

    If people are willing to listen to it, sure. I've never listened to him and I'm not about to start. Judging by the outrage and dropping of sponsorship it seems like more people are going to be not listening to him and he probably will get paid less. That's the cost of being a misogynistic bigot. I still don't see why this is a national incident or why the team feels that their efforts have been cheapened in any way. I do believe in free speech, and think that if he doesn't like women or black people then he should be able to say however he feels if he's willing to accept the financial repercussions and backlash from people who aren't hateful sexists. I don't think my moral outrage should dictate anyone's paycheck in any way except that they won't be getting any of my money. That being said, I still think he's a silly old man that shouldn't be taken seriously.

    Edit: But wait, there's more!
    japan wrote: »

    Boom. There's the difference. If what you say is going to be transmitted to a national audience, it would make sense to make sure your statements aren't going to offend a significant proportion of that audience. Particularly if it's a medium that isn't concerned with making political statements like sports journalism.

    People listen to him to hear about sports. The broadcaster makes money by targetting ads to that audience. If the person you employ to retain that audience starts reducing it instead then they've become a liability (the excessive apologising and symbolic hauling over hot coals is intended to be "damage control"). People aren't going to listen to a broadcaster that insults them.

    People tune in to hear about sports? Correct me if I'm wrong, I thought his radio show as just him blathering into a microphone for a couple hours (I even checking Wikipedia and Google News to make sure). Seems to me like his show is his opinion, so I think the people tuning into his show for sports highlights are about as misguided as an old man who has no filter between his mind and his mouth.

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  • Descendant XDescendant X Registered User regular
    edited April 2007
    My grandfather thinks that Don Imus is great.

    That statement alone should be reason enough to get him off the air.

    (Obviously it requires you to make some assumptions about my grandfather. I'm sure that you'll reach the right ones. He is a nice ol' bastard, but very, very misguided.)

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  • mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    edited April 2007
    Trevor wrote: »
    I still don't see why this is a national incident or why the team feels that their efforts have been cheapened in any way.

    One could say that having the spotlight taken from their efforts and instead focused on what one dumb asshole said could have a slight cheapening effect. Of course, one could also argue that that was caused more by the media reaction to his comments than the comments themselves. After all, I doubt any of the players listen to his show, and I doubt many of their friends do either. They'd probably not have heard about it for weeks if it hadn't turned into the newest media circus.

    And shit, it's Don Imus. The guy's known for being an offensive asshole. He's been doing it since before most of us were born. I don't know how this is any worse than tons of things he's said in the past, and he survived those. He may change advertisers, he may even change networks, but the guy will probably die in front of a fucking microphone.

  • GooeyGooey Registered User regular
    edited April 2007
    Ok, I'm pleading ignorance.

    Nappy has always meant "dirty, unwashed" and "ho" has always been a shortened/slang form of "whore" to me.

    Is there some racist conotation that I've missed in my cultural education?



    Anyway, my stance is if you don't like what he has to say, don't listen. Racism/sexism/whateverism runs rampant in our media/entertainment all the time and no one makes a big stink about it. I have to admit I've never listened to Imus ever in my life. But I'm just not exactly sure why this guy has to be nailed to the cross when a thousand others are doing the same thing every day.

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  • RoundBoyRoundBoy Registered User
    edited April 2007
    Its not a matter if Imus is a dick or not... the 'real' crux of the matter is Sharpton calling for heads, and CBS offering heads to be cleaved.

    I offer this:

    Instead of focusing on a stupid joking comment, how about Mr. Sharpton and other black 'leaders' come and address the violence in the black community at large?

    For example, Philadelphia is well on the way to passing records in murders city wide, with 108 so far. In fact, at a memorial vigil for someone shot and killed on easter sunday, to groups of girls started shooting at each other, and some unrelated person was shot in the back.

    But I'm sure an old radio dinosaur like Imus is a much better target for dumb comments made,one of many that can also be found on popular rap albums.

    I would call Sharpton, but, I'm a white guy.. He doesn't take my calls. :sad panda:

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  • TrevorTrevor Registered User regular
    edited April 2007
    Gooey wrote: »
    Ok, I'm pleading ignorance.

    Nappy has always meant "dirty, unwashed" and "ho" has always been a shortened/slang form of "whore" to me.

    Is there some racist conotation that I've missed in my cultural education?



    Anyway, my stance is if you don't like what he has to say, don't listen. Racism/sexism/whateverism runs rampant in our media/entertainment all the time and no one makes a big stink about it. I have to admit I've never listened to Imus ever in my life. But I'm just not exactly sure why this guy has to be nailed to the cross when a thousand others are doing the same thing every day.


    I got you covered.

    "nappy (adj.)
    "downy," 1499, from nap (n.). Meaning "fuzzy, kinky," used in colloquial or derogatory ref. to the hair of black people, is from 1950." - Online Etymology Dictionary

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  • japanjapan Registered User regular
    edited April 2007
    Trevor wrote: »
    Edit: But wait, there's more!
    japan wrote: »

    Boom. There's the difference. If what you say is going to be transmitted to a national audience, it would make sense to make sure your statements aren't going to offend a significant proportion of that audience. Particularly if it's a medium that isn't concerned with making political statements like sports journalism.

    People listen to him to hear about sports. The broadcaster makes money by targetting ads to that audience. If the person you employ to retain that audience starts reducing it instead then they've become a liability (the excessive apologising and symbolic hauling over hot coals is intended to be "damage control"). People aren't going to listen to a broadcaster that insults them.

    People tune in to hear about sports? Correct me if I'm wrong, I thought his radio show as just him blathering into a microphone for a couple hours (I even checking Wikipedia and Google News to make sure). Seems to me like his show is his opinion, so I think the people tuning into his show for sports highlights are about as misguided as an old man who has no filter between his mind and his mouth.

    Oops, sorry. The coverage I've read of this left me with the impression that he was a sports broadcaster, if this isn't the case then disregard.

  • GooeyGooey Registered User regular
    edited April 2007
    Trevor wrote: »
    Gooey wrote: »
    Ok, I'm pleading ignorance.

    Nappy has always meant "dirty, unwashed" and "ho" has always been a shortened/slang form of "whore" to me.

    Is there some racist conotation that I've missed in my cultural education?



    Anyway, my stance is if you don't like what he has to say, don't listen. Racism/sexism/whateverism runs rampant in our media/entertainment all the time and no one makes a big stink about it. I have to admit I've never listened to Imus ever in my life. But I'm just not exactly sure why this guy has to be nailed to the cross when a thousand others are doing the same thing every day.


    I got you covered.

    "nappy (adj.)
    "downy," 1499, from nap (n.). Meaning "fuzzy, kinky," used in colloquial or derogatory ref. to the hair of black people, is from 1950." - Online Etymology Dictionary

    Hmm. Well I can honestly say that I've never heard that this is a racist word ever in my life. Come to think of it, I've used it a lot (with my personal definition). Someone please tell me I'm not the only one.

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  • mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    edited April 2007
    RoundBoy wrote: »
    But I'm sure an old radio dinosaur like Imus is a much better target for dumb comments made, one of many that can also be found on popular rap albums.

    Comments can vary in offensiveness based on who says them and in what context. A young black rapper talking about random "nappy headed hos" is totally different than an old white guy calling specific black women "nappy headed hos."

  • mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    edited April 2007
    Gooey wrote: »
    Hmm. Well I can honestly say that I've never heard that this is a racist word ever in my life. Come to think of it, I've used it a lot (with my personal definition). Someone please tell me I'm not the only one.

    It's not an inherently racist word. It just becomes so when used in certain contexts.

  • TrevorTrevor Registered User regular
    edited April 2007
    Gooey wrote: »
    Hmm. Well I can honestly say that I've never heard that this is a racist word ever in my life. Come to think of it, I've used it a lot (with my personal definition). Someone please tell me I'm not the only one.

    Yeah, I wouldn't worry about being accidentally racist. I think it's one of those things that backwards racists started using when they ran out of other things to call black people 50 years ago.

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  • MalkorMalkor Registered User regular
    edited April 2007
    Don Imus broadcasts from WFAN and is syndicated to other markets. WFAN is primarily sports talk radio.

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  • RoundBoyRoundBoy Registered User
    edited April 2007
    mcdermott wrote: »
    RoundBoy wrote: »
    But I'm sure an old radio dinosaur like Imus is a much better target for dumb comments made, one of many that can also be found on popular rap albums.

    Comments can vary in offensiveness based on who says them and in what context. A young black rapper talking about random "nappy headed hos" is totally different than an old white guy calling specific black women "nappy headed hos."

    Part of the problem is attributing 'Nappy' and 'ho's' to just black women .. whereas its not the case at all. As said above, these words are not racist in themselves, but only in context.

    Now what was the context? Are some of the players black? Is that why it is now a racial issue? What if he simply called the women 'dumb bitches' or even 'dumb hos' ? Would there still be a scandal?

    I can take this also in Sharption's comments during his radio show, when Imus said something along the lines of 'I just can win with you people'. Sharpton went right on the offensive asking what was meant by that.. when it simply identified a group of people.. not really just 'black people'

    I don't hate Sharpton, he is just an attention whore looking to ge as much media exposure as possible. Nor do I have specific empathy for Imus, as I can say I have *never* listened to his show. Ever. I am almost ready to blame CBS because while it could have been appropriate to suspend people for dumb ass remarks, they will probably end up firing him. This is just one more signpost on the spiral downwards this country is taking with religion, race, politics, sex,etc.. Its still a great country .. but we are starting to do it wrong.

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  • MalkorMalkor Registered User regular
    edited April 2007
    Al Sharpton is definitely always ready to march or get on his soapbox. I think after the initial apology then market forces would have caused Imus to lose some sponsors, hit him in the wallet and that would be that until he offended some other group.

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  • mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    edited April 2007
    RoundBoy wrote: »
    Now what was the context? Are some of the players black? Is that why it is now a racial issue? What if he simply called the women 'dumb bitches' or even 'dumb hos' ? Would there still be a scandal?

    Wow, you obviously don't watch much news because the segment of the show where the comment was made has been replayed about 17 million times. It's right below Anna Nicole.

    Yes, nearly all of the players are black. He was basically referring to how the team is a bunch of hardcore-looking black chicks with tattoos and what not.

  • GooeyGooey Registered User regular
    edited April 2007
    mcdermott wrote: »
    RoundBoy wrote: »
    Now what was the context? Are some of the players black? Is that why it is now a racial issue? What if he simply called the women 'dumb bitches' or even 'dumb hos' ? Would there still be a scandal?

    Wow, you obviously don't watch much news because the segment of the show where the comment was made has been replayed about 17 million times. It's right below Anna Nicole.

    Yes, nearly all of the players are black. He was basically referring to how the team is a bunch of hardcore-looking black chicks with tattoos and what not.

    But aren't they?

    I had a class in college with a few girls on the women's basketball team. They were/are nationaly ranked. The team was entirely black then and still is now as far as I know. When we were grouped together for group work, I had no problem admitting that they were "scary" and could easily kick my ass. They thought it was hysterical. I instantly became "that funny white guy."

    I guess it all depends on context.

    Can we please talk about Anna Nicole's baby now? That's what I really care about.

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  • Nova_CNova_C Sniff Sniff Snorf Beyond The WallRegistered User regular
    edited April 2007
    I'm just plain old confused by most of this. I mean, I'd never heard of the guy before this and I'd never heard the term 'nappy' before this, but...come on:
    "It kind of scars us. We grew up in a world where racism exists, and there's nothing we can do to change that," said Matee Ajavon, a junior guard. "I think that this has scarred me for life."

    What the hell is that?

    And the guy he was interviewing, Bernard McGuirk, said, "Some hardcore hos", to which Imus responded with his 'nappy-headed' thing, and yet, only Imus is taking heat. Interesting. Because I see as much misogyny in McGuirk's statement but apparently it's not a problem so long as you don't use a slang term associated with racism against blacks.

    And Sharpton can kiss my ass. His kind of grandstanding and overreacting only encourages racism.

    Imus got suspended and is losing advertisers. His job is in jeopardy as is career in general. Sounds to me like he's getting what he deserves but the lynch mob goes on.

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  • wookieeArmourwookieeArmour Registered User
    edited April 2007
    It was a pretty stupid comment, but I think this trend of forcing people to eat shit in front of al sharpton should end. Who the fuck is Al sharpton anyway? He's made negative comments toward jews in less enlightened times and didn't have to answer for it because he's black.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not a white revisionist. I think racism should be confronted and it's still a problem. But Al sharpton isn't really the man to do it.

    I don't understand how this can take up so much time in the news with things like the scandles in Washington and the war in Iraq going on. It makes me angry to see CNN spending so much time on it.

    Why the fuck should the presidential candidate weigh in on some asshole making a stupid racist comment?

    I also don't understand why the same people who go after such an easy target like this old ignorant white man don't try to tackle a real target like gangster rap and hip hop? Saying, "they should stop to" doesn't really mean anything. Take them to task. Have 50 cents on the Al sharpton show and tell him to stop using the word HO and the N word.

  • piLpiL Registered User regular
    edited April 2007
    Trevor wrote: »
    Gooey wrote: »
    Hmm. Well I can honestly say that I've never heard that this is a racist word ever in my life. Come to think of it, I've used it a lot (with my personal definition). Someone please tell me I'm not the only one.

    Yeah, I wouldn't worry about being accidentally racist. I think it's one of those things that backwards racists started using when they ran out of other things to call black people 50 years ago.

    I think I learned about it from The Craft.



    mcdermott wrote: »
    Comments can vary in offensiveness based on who says them and in what context. A young black rapper talking about random "nappy headed hos" is totally different than an old white guy calling specific black women "nappy headed hos."

    This is going to sound a little cliche, but it's okay when they do it.

  • wookieeArmourwookieeArmour Registered User
    edited April 2007
    It's not ok, even by their standards, they just don't have the balls to go after rap music.

    It's like with feminists and porn. Sex workers are easy targets to attack, but when it comes to the institutions that create the issues (the church, marriage) they shy away.

  • EinEin New Jersey, USARegistered User regular
    edited April 2007
    As a student at Rutgers right now, I am just dropping in here to say that I think people are ridiculously blowing this out of proportion, and if anything, I have come to dislike Sharpton from this event. These are just my personal views on all of it.

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  • wookieeArmourwookieeArmour Registered User
    edited April 2007
    I think the more sharpton does this, when it's a really small issue like this, the less credibility he will have.

  • GanluanGanluan Registered User regular
    edited April 2007
    They were discussing this on the radio this morning, and they were talking about Snoop Dogg's response in particular... I can't find it in an article online, but he basically said how it's different for him to call women "ho's", because "he's not some white man sitting up in a tower" or something to that effect.

    How is that any less racist? The whole thing becomes more and more divisive as it's blown up by people like Sharpton, and I'm amazed Jesse Jackson hasn't been shouting from the mountaintops yet.

    Wasn't there something a while ago where Oprah was saying how misogynistic and violent rap was becoming, and she got told that she was anti-black or something similar?

    What he said wasn't even funny and not very smart, but the witch hunt resulting from it is ridiculous. I was hoping the girls from Rutgers would have stood up to say "we accept his apology, and we don't let old shock jock's misguided jokes detract from our successes". Instead we hear how this scars them for life and has ruined the year... what the hell?

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