Sorry in advance for the novel, but i need some advice with some relationship issues.
So i've been dating someone for a few years now, i really love her a lot, and want to spend the rest of my life with her. no question. we get along incredibly well, and as far as i know, she loves me as well. However, we've had a couple conversations lately that kind of worry me. She's concerned there is something missing from our relationship, and to be honest, i can see where she's coming from. She mentioned her previous relationship that was pretty dysfunctional, but passionate. we seem to be the opposite, more or less. I don't think we're completely passionless, but it is a bit early in our relationship to fall into routine. oftentimes we get home, eat dinner, and sit in front of the tv, and just go to bed. I think she is actually similar to me, in being guarded a bit, and she said that is the one thing her ex could really bring out of her, and i don't. There are more specific issues as well. I have a fair amount of CC debt, on top of a car, and a house that put me in a giant hole to begin with. She is worried i'm not really focused on our future and paying that off, she's not wrong in that case as i have a bit of a delay of gratification issue. When i want something, or to go on a trip, i'll figure out how to make it happen, possibly getting further into debt to do so. She doesn't want to be the "bad guy" in saying no, we (well, I really) can't afford to do something. i told her i don't think of her as not fun when something like that happens, as soon as she says "no that's not a good idea" i snap out of it and agree, but she doesn't want to have to do that at all. I can understand that.
I am very laid back, and i think in the past i've developed that as a bit of a defensive mechanism to deal with my life. Nothing really bothers me that much, but i also don't really make a big deal about even things i enjoy. I don't want to be laid back in every aspect of my relationship, i want to be passionate (but not a psycho)and her to always know that i love her with all my heart. I'll be honest, i'm not sure i know how to change. I'm not young, and i've been living my life this way for quite a while. This is not the first time that a girl has brought this up either, in the past i convinced myself that they are being overly dramatic (or whatever), and that i am fine the way i am. All that thinking got me was single again, and i don't feel the same way now.
We just had one of these conversations last night, and honestly, all i can really think to do is talk to a counselor or something. anyone have any advice? Should i suggest couples counseling? She is not saying i'm entirely at fault for our issues at all, she recognizes that she's to blame as well. i think the fact that we both put others feelings/enjoyment/whatever ahead of our own, is causing us to not be sure how to really connect with each other.
TL;DR version: I'm a very laid back person, bordering on impassionate. People in the past have assumed that i just don't care. My GF is similarly laid back, but not nearly as aloof as i am. She is concerned not that i don't love her, she knows i do, but that we're just running through the motions, and the underlying emotional attachment might not be there. I feel it is, but i'm not sure how to change our interactions to reflect this. probably going to talk to a counselor or something, but im curious if anyone has any other ideas.
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Do those things.
I suggest counseling for the two of you before it's too late. As well as counseling for yourself, maybe a professional can help you find some passion.
Counseling might not be a bad idea. If she doesn't want to go, it might not be a bad idea for you to do it on your own, just to work on you for awhile.
As a couple of smaller suggestions that you can work on right away - try eating dinner with the TV off. You can have a radio on in the background if you need some noise, but it won't grab your attention away from each other so much. Focus on things you enjoy doing together. Hell, if you're both readers, maybe try reading each other's favorite books and discuss them. Be aware of her, as in notice when she's having a good hair day, or when she seems tired.
Re: the debt, get together at least a basic outline of a budget that includes throwing money at those old debts and not going further into debt if unnecessary.
Best of luck making it work, man.
I too am similar.... to both of you! My divorce was a few years ago though.
Not that I'm saying your relationship is heading down that road Dr OP. It's a strange thing, seems like you're both open about the lack of passion. Used to be I thought communicating and mentioning the elephant was enough to be self aware of the issue and sort of head off the problem, this is not true I'm going to agree with J if lack of passion is described as X then you need to know what X is described as passionate and do those things (if you so choose). The hardest part is finding out what X is, it's difficult to communicate the tiny things that make love more passionate. It's even more difficult if you're worried about doing it as well as an ex.
I read this book that I can't for the life of me remember. But, the author had this funny little analogy for the little things that people do to "prove their love" or be more passionate. They considered it currency, with all the flaws of this for that, debt, inflation etc - but worse! There's an exchange rate, what you see as deeply moving and passionate she see's as boring or weird, same goes for what she does for you. Just an interesting idea. (Ninja edit) I left out the most important part, point is people like to be paid in their own currency if she does little cute things to "pay you" odds are doing something similar to pay her back is the way to go, I can't do anything with your dinar!
So, with that said. I would ask what things can be done to bring out the passion (A counselor could be handy here to pin down what things need to be done), furthermore I would make up my own passionate things to do (without being psycho as you mentioned) and just see what sticks.
Also, you should be keenly aware that relationships are not ever ALL passion all the time, it's draining - and people tend to either see only the good or only the bad things from past relationships.
And so on and so forth.
I was going to suggest that we "unplug" every once in a while, no TV, no Phones, etc.
I think part of my problem is that i'm nervous that romantic gestures will be seen as corny and have the opposite effect. i have a pretty hefty fear of rejection as well. I get stuck in my own head, and talk myself right out of doing anything because i'm afraid it's stupid.
If my memory hasn't failed me, I think @ceres is one of those folks?
Couples counselling would be wise in any case.
EDIT: Yup, memory = fail.
Sorry. I'm sure I read it in a previous H/A thread dealing with a relationship crisis, but I don't remember who it was.
Ask her, straight up, "What are three small things that I could do, or say, that would make you feel connected/appreciated/whatever" Write them down (Seriously, write them down.) and then go out of you way to do or say one of those thing. This may seem a bit forced or even artificial, but what it does is forces you to be more aware of her, and not go into autopilot when you get home. It also gets you in the habit of doing or saying something that shows your appreciation.
You could also go out of your way to pay her one small compliment every day. This is a great habit to cultivate and it will make her feel good about herself. This can be as simple as "I like what you did with your hair today. You look nice." or "I noticed you did XYZ thing for me, I really appreciate that." The trick is to be genuine, and try to change it up.
Once a week or so, declare a technology free evening and do something together. Play a board or card game. Go for a walk, sit and talk, whatever.
She is probably not going to think less of you for trying, and if you try something and it doesn't work out at all, you figure out why and then modify or don't do it again.
Most people (if not all) are creatures of habit, and now that you've kinda of settled down with each other a bit there ain't no need to try anymore. That's not to say it should all be on you, but someone needs to take a bit more of a stand to stir stuff up a bit and see what happens.
Even little stuff can show you are not taking her for granted, which is what I'm assuming you're dealing with and not that you're depressed or something.
I think that's what she might be looking for- not the fact that you tell her you love her, but the fact that you show her you do. Like they say, talk is cheap.
I can has cheezburger, yes?
There is a galaxy of free or cheap things you can do to bring a smile to her lips and a little swivel to her hips every time she thinks of you.
Turn off the TV. TV is a fantasy of life and passion is in a life fantastic. TV is for those moments when you are both too exhausted and just want some noise to cuddle to or a team to cheer together.
Decide, if only for now, the kind of person you'd like to be for her. Find a role model, or create one in your mind. Work toward something - anything.
I highly recommend a book called Swoon, but Betsy Prioleau, which is basically about how being a ladies man works. Take it with a grain of salt, and remember that it mostly (but not always) describes non-monogamous men, but it is chock full of good ideas that can make be just as wonderful when applied to only one special person.
For specific examples: Massages, hair-stroking, cooking, surprises, asking questions about non-generic topics (What is your favorite bird call?), swapping stories of your youths, bringing her interesting objects you find (make sure it's not poison ivy!), playing chase in the park, learning a poem to recite, writing a love note by hand, making her a bagged lunch, creating a timeline of goals and a budget chart to show how you can reach them, compare baby name preferences, learn how to use your voice to make her toes curl, plan a date out from start to finish including the meal and the outfits, after learning what you KNOW she would like, and so on.
I am plagued by these issues, myself, and I still struggle with them on a daily basis, but change is available (and O it is fulfilling). I've been slowly moving toward a mental construct of a swashbuckler type (I am not recommending that for you - I'm a bit odd), and it's done amazing things for my ability to hold someone's attention.
The Consideration Technique
Make a list of things you know she likes, and make a list of things you like about her. Keep these lists updated when you think of a new thing. Then, at least once a week, do a thing she likes and tell her it was because of a thing you like about her. It doesn't have to be something big or expensive, it could just be... clean the bathroom mirror and write a note that says "you're cute when you wake up" or something.
Specific variation for you: SECRETLY make a budget, one that really discourages you from doing things to go further in debt (there are other places you can get advice on budgeting). Then, if you can pull it off jovially, do this: write down times when you were tempted and avoided temptation, wait a week, then buy or make her something really small and write "I was going to buy Grand Turismo, but instead I bought you this York Peppermint Patty and put the rest in the bank" or "I was going to order a new laptop, but instead I made you a mix tape full of songs about computers."
Let me break down the logic here
1) She's clearly told you that she doesn't want to be the warden, and I get that. I once had a friend who was terrible with money, but every time I'd suggest they not buy that new game/car/toy, they'd make the saddest face ever, and usually agree. This would make me feel terrible, though the thing I'd asked was perfectly reasonable and in fact vital to us continuing to pay our rent. Even if you usually listen, this stuff takes a toll.
2) She does want the change, however, and demonstrating that you've changed positively because of her is a plus. I know the old chestnut about not trying to change people, but if someone voluntarily changes themselves in a way that makes them healthier as a direct response to your input, that feels amazing.
3) Waiting a week and then doing/writing something silly will reduce the pain for you (to keep you from looking wounded when you tell her how you gave something up), and having the associated gift be dumb or small reduces the drama and lightens the mood. Doing a note rather than handing her a gift adds another level of levity, and connecting it with a small gesture shows you're thinking of her.
I know that this seems really, really hard but if you can pull it off, it'd be INCREDIBLE. Seriously, I'd almost suggest financial counseling before emotional counseling. It will also relieve stress and worry, which are relationship KILLERS.
Character Analysis
You like to watch TV together? That's great. If you're both reserved, it can help you think of ways to emotionally engage - if you watch decent TV. Don't just sit there passively all the time - if a scene or episode is especially moving or interesting, think of a question or situation it reminds you of, and then start a conversation about that. Start the conversation with a small revelation on your part, if possible, so it doesn't seem like an interrogation. It can start with dumb things like a song or a joke the show reminded you of, then get deeper into stuff like old friendships and hopes and dreams and fears. TV is cool because it triggers emotions in a way we can analyze, and serves as a way to allow us to both connect with and distance ourselves from those emotions. It's not about your weird childhood, it's about Ron Fucking Swanson's weird childhood.
After stress is reduced (in the form of a better budget) and communication is opened (in the form of talkin' about TV), then positive stuff will happen more spontaneously. Honestly, you're pretty lucky that you're conscious of the financial issue, and that you've communicated with her about it as much as you have... it gives you a lot of information to act on.
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This is not meant to be creepy or demeaning, but really, when she talks about "passion" and "dysfunction" in her previous relationships, what else can you deduce? Why else would someone stay in a relationship that was that dysfunctional if the sex wasn't good? I've been there, and I almost came out unscathed... but that's neither here nor there.
I think what she's after is for you to be so insatiably attracted to her that you can't help yourself. A bit of the time when you first started dating, where the moment you saw each other you'd beat around the bush for a bit before ravenously making out (I might be guessing here, but the point remains).
After all, sex is what drives relationships. The other advice in the thread--going out on activities, doing things together--can be done with friends. Without sexual intimacy, you're just hanging out with a friend.
If this is true, consider my post again:
Especially the bolded area.
1. Gifts - Doesn't have to be expensive - if you see a small token that reminds you of her bring her that and see how she reacts.
2. Quality Time - Turn the TV off and engage. Go for walks.
3. Words of Affirmation - Some people simply need to hear you say you love them, some need to hear it everyday.
4. Acts of Service - This is like .. spontaneously doing the dishes, household chores, fixing something that is broken.
5. Physical Touch - Sex! And holding hands, and all the physical in between.
One thing to think about .. is you may be more comfortable with the one that works for YOU. But that's YOUR love language. The key is finding HER love language, that's the one that'll make her feel loved. It sounds like you may have a lot in common - but this part you might not have in common.
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Money is definitely a stressor, as my house is a giant money pit. couple that with buying things being a big stress reliever for me, and you get lots of debt...
Ceres has my mindset nailed down exactly, that is exactly the thought process i have when i think of something romantic. i kind of feel that way about sex sometimes too, i think: I'd kind of like to get frisky, hmm i don't know if she wants to, crap i'm out of shape, ok she probably doesn't want to, now i'll eat an entire cake.
i tend to talk myself right out of doing anything when i'm feeling down
The first point is the hardest one to get over for some people. Also, if you find you're putting all the effort into the relationship (valentine's day, your anniversary, etc) with planning and lavishing with love and gifts, you need to make that apparent because you putting in 100% and the other person putting in 50% sucks. Especially if you get told that your ideas stink and you're not romantic enough, in my eyes, the person doing the planning at least tried.
I'm not trying to get infracted, this seriously happened.
True story, my fiance and I were having dinner with our friend and his family, and my wine glass was empty and I was feeling nervous and just looking at it awkwardly because I was too shy to ask to more. A minute or two later, my friend's father asked my fiance if he would like more wine, and my fiance said, "Yes, but I would like to fill Din's cup first." All the older women started swooning as if he were George Clooney! And it made me feel really loved as well.
If that were all it takes to make a happy marriage, then I would not be getting divorced...