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The [Zelda] thread. BOTW spoilers WILL be posted before release. Watch your step!

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Posts

  • OmnipotentBagelOmnipotentBagel Shell, Teeth, Eyes, Flame, Claws, Breath, Scales, FUN!Registered User regular
    Wyborn wrote: »
    Wyborn wrote: »
    Triple AAA games are absolutely contingent on dlc purchase

    It's how they have kept the cost at 60 dollars

    Is this something Ninten—no that's not a fair question, fucking of course they haven't

    Is this something other developers, especially Japanese ones, have talked about? I understand it makes the model more sustainable, but I didn't understand it to be necessary for the existence of the genre. I mean, some DLC can cost as much to make as the main game in terms of its assets and content (like the Shovel Knight DLC, and I cna't imagine how expensive the Witcher 3 DLC was)

    The assets and content may be expensive, but it's built on an underlying engine and gameplay system that's already been built, which is a very significant cost of development.

    That's true, but asset creation and tweaking of new systems can also be a super significant investment! Plague of Shadows was more expensive to produce than Shovel Knight, and Specter of TOrment might be even moreso?

    But the point is that DLC of a certain kind isn't pure pro—

    No one's saying they're pure profit. And using Shovel Knight as an example is super missing the mark on this discussion because they're not a AAA game, their development was crowdfunded and their release method driven by promises made during that campaign. It has almost no applicability to how AAA budgeting works.

    Think of it this way--a lot of games are sold on thin margins or even at a loss, with the intent that DLC built off the pre-existing game base can be sold at higher margins afterwards to make up for the gap. This is very common these days because the budget expectations for AAA are pretty out of control compared to the $60 price point.

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  • WybornWyborn GET EQUIPPED Registered User regular
    edited February 17
    chart3.0.jpg

    So right now, EA's whole strategy is pretty seriously built around the idea that sales overall are going down so you need to get more out of the people that ARE buying

    That doesn't, to be fair, 100% mean these games wouldn't exist without DLC, but it seems pretty clear to me that they are absolutely supplementing dev costs with DLC money and that they wouldn't be able to do as much with these games if they weren't selling it

    This is a damn good chart but I think it's also a little off the mark, since it's a chart about digital revenue and digital sales of EA games are often going to be heavily discounted through Origin, right? This makes a lot of sense if they're expecting you to buy DLC for a game that's selling for over half off

    Wyborn on
  • Care Free BombCare Free Bomb Registered User regular
    It always depends on what they're going for with DLC and how robust the base game is. The parts of Shovel Knight that persists between game modes is fairly small because each character controls radically differently and those tight controls are what makes that game good. BotW on the other hand will likely have you play as Link or someone who controls like Link and they can put new assets in new configurations that will work within the existing engine without having to ensure the gameplay feels good because they've already done that.

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  • OmnipotentBagelOmnipotentBagel Shell, Teeth, Eyes, Flame, Claws, Breath, Scales, FUN!Registered User regular
    Wyborn wrote: »
    chart3.0.jpg

    So right now, EA's whole strategy is pretty seriously built around the idea that sales overall are going down so you need to get more out of the people that ARE buying

    That doesn't, to be fair, 100% mean these games wouldn't exist without DLC, but it seems pretty clear to me that they are absolutely supplementing dev costs with DLC money and that they wouldn't be able to do as much with these games if they weren't selling it

    This is a damn good chart but I think it's also a little off the mark, since it's a chart about digital revenue and digital sales of EA games are often going to be heavily discounted through Origin, right? This makes a lot of sense if they're expecting you to buy DLC for a game that's selling for over half off

    Okay but why do you think they're getting discounted so heavily? Because sales are down. Businesses don't discount products unless they're failing to get the market penetration they're expecting.

    Nintendo rarely discounts their software, which means they're EXTRA dependent on hitting their sales figures--something that gets harder to do all the time in the current market. So it's really easy to extrapolate that this season pass is at least a hedged bet on generating additional revenue for the game to give them more leeway with expected sales figures.

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  • ChincymcchillaChincymcchilla Registered User regular
    If you think origin heavily discounts games you haven't used origin much

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  • GoatmonGoatmon I can't stop. This is all I have left.Registered User regular
    edited February 17
    It's really no one's fault but theirs that they need DLC to make a profit.

    The overspending in the development of modern games has gotten kind of ridiculous. Like, to the point that games are sometimes required to sell upwards of 5-8 million copies to not be considered a total failure.

    Jim Sterling has a few talks about that over the years in his Jimquisition series.

    Here's one example.

    Goatmon on
    OmnipotentBagelAndy Joe
  • WybornWyborn GET EQUIPPED Registered User regular
    OK forget for a minute about this argument, it's worth pursuing but right this second I don't care about that nearly as much as I care about a tacit standing agreement to not post spoilers in this thread

    Are we, as group, cool about not posting leaked information about the game in this thread?

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  • Care Free BombCare Free Bomb Registered User regular
    I would very much like folks not to post spoilers

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  • OmnipotentBagelOmnipotentBagel Shell, Teeth, Eyes, Flame, Claws, Breath, Scales, FUN!Registered User regular
    As long as they're behind spoiler tags and labeled in some way, I have no problem with them being posted. I won't be reading them, but it's easy enough to avoid if people use the system that was built for it.

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  • Mr. GMr. G Registered User regular
    As long as they're behind spoiler tags and labeled in some way, I have no problem with them being posted. I won't be reading them, but it's easy enough to avoid if people use the system that was built for it.

    I don't want them at all because then you will get full pages of nothing but spoiler tag posts from the people that don't care

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  • ChincymcchillaChincymcchilla Registered User regular
    Wyborn wrote: »
    OK forget for a minute about this argument, it's worth pursuing but right this second I don't care about that nearly as much as I care about a tacit standing agreement to not post spoilers in this thread

    Are we, as group, cool about not posting leaked information about the game in this thread?

    Dude

    I get that you care about spoilers

    But no, I'm sorry, there is a spoiler tag button

    I promise to put a big ol spoiler warning and put it behind spoilers

    But asking people to not post them at all because you don't want to have to summon up the willpower to not click the spoiler button is unreasonable

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  • BlueBlueBlueBlue Registered User regular
    As a group, I'm cool with you posting spoilers here, dear reader

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  • OmnipotentBagelOmnipotentBagel Shell, Teeth, Eyes, Flame, Claws, Breath, Scales, FUN!Registered User regular
    Mr. G wrote: »
    As long as they're behind spoiler tags and labeled in some way, I have no problem with them being posted. I won't be reading them, but it's easy enough to avoid if people use the system that was built for it.

    I don't want them at all because then you will get full pages of nothing but spoiler tag posts from the people that don't care

    And? You just don't read those posts. It's super easy not to read a post when you have to actively click a button to see its content. The whole reason spoiler tags exist in the first place is to solve this exact problem. It's a public forum--everyone deserves to have the conversations they want.

    Like, I'm super anti-spoiler and I don't see why this is a problem.

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  • WybornWyborn GET EQUIPPED Registered User regular
    edited February 17
    I'm not asking for a hard rule where Tube comes in and slaps anyone who posts spoilers from the game, and I don't think anyone else is

    It's strictly a courtesy that's being asked for here. There are lots of spaces to have spoiler conversation for a game that's not out for two more weeks, and I would deeply appreciate it if those conversations were had somewhere that's not here, in this specific thread, because someone always fucks up the spoiler tags (among other reasons).

    Wyborn on
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  • Mr. GMr. G Registered User regular
    Also y'all are terrible at keeping this stuff to just the tags

    Because I KNOW I'm gonna see something like
    A Post wrote:
    Zelda's role in the story
    She doesn't actually do that much
    UGH
    I can't believe this

    And now I've seen enough to figure it out

    But whatever, I've already unsubscribed from the thread

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  • OmnipotentBagelOmnipotentBagel Shell, Teeth, Eyes, Flame, Claws, Breath, Scales, FUN!Registered User regular
    I mean, if your concern is people NOT FOLLOWING PROPER POSTING ETTIQUETTE, then a blanket "no spoilers" rule isn't going to help because you're dealing with people who don't care about the rules.

    I just feel the spoiler debate cuts both ways. It's shitty posting behavior to spoil people on new things in a public forum but it's equally shitty posting behavior for a subset of the community to try and dictate what everyone is and isn't allowed to talk about. The spoiler system exists to bridge that gap.

    If you're that concerned about it, avoiding the thread altogether is the only way to be safe no matter what, because you physically CAN'T stop people from breaking the rules, established or communal, so there's always a risk

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  • Care Free BombCare Free Bomb Registered User regular
    Wyborn's not trying to dictate anything, he's asking nicely

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  • BlueBlueBlueBlue Registered User regular
    Mr. G wrote: »
    Also y'all are terrible at keeping this stuff to just the tags

    Because I KNOW I'm gonna see something like
    A Post wrote:
    Zelda's role in the story
    She doesn't actually do that much
    UGH
    I can't believe this

    And now I've seen enough to figure it out

    But whatever, I've already unsubscribed from the thread

    Wow did you see the leaks too? Because
    I have not actually seen any, it is a ruse
    By the way dear reader I am also cool with you using spoilers for jokes in the middle of everyone using them for spoilers. Honestly I think people who go into a thread on a topic while knowing immenent spoilers abound are straight up asking to be spoiled, even if everyone has made a blood pact not to do it

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  • OmnipotentBagelOmnipotentBagel Shell, Teeth, Eyes, Flame, Claws, Breath, Scales, FUN!Registered User regular
    edited February 17
    Wyborn's not trying to dictate anything, he's asking nicely

    He's asking nicely for us all to agree to not talk about a wide swath of on-topic conversation--conversation that some people want to have. That's politely trying to dictate the conversation.

    OmnipotentBagel on
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  • ChincymcchillaChincymcchilla Registered User regular
    Also I've been actively looking for spoilers since -Tal posted that and haven't been able to find anything so I think you're probably safe for a while at least

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  • BlueBlueBlueBlue Registered User regular
    Also I've been actively looking for spoilers since -Tal posted that and haven't been able to find anything so I think you're probably safe for a while at least

    Some fella in the gt thread saying the same thing, that potentially it's a hoax

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  • BlueBlueBlueBlue Registered User regular
    Were I Nintendo I would not be able to keep myself from making an unassuming twitch account and start playing the demo they've showed a million times, some message on the screen like "since there may be other leaked copies I'm not reading chat" and just spend hours not even attempting to do anything new, just messing around with physics and setting grass on fire or whatever

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  • OmnipotentBagelOmnipotentBagel Shell, Teeth, Eyes, Flame, Claws, Breath, Scales, FUN!Registered User regular
    BlueBlue wrote: »
    Were I Nintendo I would not be able to keep myself from making an unassuming twitch account and start playing the demo they've showed a million times, some message on the screen like "since there may be other leaked copies I'm not reading chat" and just spend hours not even attempting to do anything new, just messing around with physics and setting grass on fire or whatever

    I mean, not even an unassuming one--that seems like the exact sort of thing Treehouse would do.

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  • -Tal-Tal The history of Hyrule is the history of the Calamity Ganon. Registered User regular
    There's a youtuber playing the game but so far I don't believe they have left the starting area

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  • BlueBlueBlueBlue Registered User regular
    edited February 17
    The idea is that with some no-name account people would mistake it for the leaked full version

    Too bad the streamer just can't get past these bokoblins and is too determined to walk around them

    Edit ^oh dang it's real

    BlueBlue on
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  • KwoaruKwoaru Registered User regular
    edited February 17
    Wyborn wrote: »
    I'm not asking for a hard rule where Tube comes in and slaps anyone who posts spoilers from the game, and I don't think anyone else is

    It's strictly a courtesy that's being asked for here. There are lots of spaces to have spoiler conversation for a game that's not out for two more weeks, and I would deeply appreciate it if those conversations were had somewhere that's not here, in this specific thread, because someone always fucks up the spoiler tags (among other reasons).
    I mean, clearly labeled spoiler tags are kind of the most anyone can reasonably ask

    and you're right that historically this forum is the worst about trying to be clever and talk around spoilers so if there are copies in the wild then this thread, the nintendo thread, and proooobably the video game mega thread podcast thread are all worth staying out of

    Kwoaru on
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  • OmnipotentBagelOmnipotentBagel Shell, Teeth, Eyes, Flame, Claws, Breath, Scales, FUN!Registered User regular
    BlueBlue wrote: »
    The idea is that with some no-name account people would mistake it for the leaked full version

    Too bad the streamer just can't get past these bokoblins and is too determined to walk around them

    Edit ^oh dang it's real

    Oh, gotcha. A false flag leak. Yeah I've wondered why that doesn't happen more often. I've heard stories of devs "leaking" torrents of their games with code removed to prevent them from working past a "demo" area, in order to drown fully working pirated copies and thought that was a really clever way to approach it.

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  • WybornWyborn GET EQUIPPED Registered User regular
    For the sake of clarity, I am not attempting to dictate the course of the conversation here. I am asking for the people in this thread who want to discuss full-game spoilers in this thread, regardless of if they intend to play the game to completion or not, to wait until the game's release to post full-game spoilers. By all means discuss them to your heart's content, but I would appreciate it immensely that if you do so in this thread it at least wait until people in the thread are able to actually play the game and might reasonably expect wild spoilers to be trundling about.

    That's the last I'll ask of it. If that's too much to ask, I will understand.

  • ChincymcchillaChincymcchilla Registered User regular
    Wyborn wrote: »
    For the sake of clarity, I am not attempting to dictate the course of the conversation here. I am asking for the people in this thread who want to discuss full-game spoilers in this thread, regardless of if they intend to play the game to completion or not, to wait until the game's release to post full-game spoilers. By all means discuss them to your heart's content, but I would appreciate it immensely that if you do so in this thread it at least wait until people in the thread are able to actually play the game and might reasonably expect wild spoilers to be trundling about.

    That's the last I'll ask of it. If that's too much to ask, I will understand.

    so you aren't trying to dictate the course of conversation, except don't discuss it in this thread? That's what that means, dude

    Again, noone's going to post open spoilers and if they do they're breaking the rules, but the spoiler tag system exists so that people who want to talk about something can. Asking people who want to discuss it to not do so, even under spoiler tags, until x criteria is met IS dictating the conversation, no matter how nicely.

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  • WybornWyborn GET EQUIPPED Registered User regular
    Dictation implies there's an imperative of some kind. This isn't one, nor has it been from the beginning. A request and dictation can be equated, but I think it is disingenuous to do so.

    But that was the last I intended to ask, and of course you guys are right that the only way to be sure is to not be in the thread. So, the thread is yours, and I'll see you guys on the other side.

  • ChincymcchillaChincymcchilla Registered User regular
    In non-spoiler related discussion

    A DVD and CD set of the Zelda 30th anniversary Tokyo Philharmonic performance is now available

    I might pick this up since I've never been able to attend any of the Zelda symphony performances

    dailydot.com/bazaar/zelda-30th-anniversary/

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  • darunia106darunia106 J-bob in games Death MountainRegistered User regular
    From someone who has attended one of those it is definitely worth it for the music alone.

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  • SilverWindSilverWind Registered User regular
    The giant-ass version of the guidebook is now also available for preorder on Amazon in the US and Canada

    This has been a very expensive Zelda purchasing year

    I'll probably see you guys in here (or the next thread) after I finish the game! Byeeeeee <3

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  • OptyOpty Registered User regular
    It's weird when someone asks nicely if everyone as a group is willing to agree to something and the people who disagree accuse him of trying to be a dictator rather than politely disagreeing.

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  • BlueBlueBlueBlue Registered User regular
    hey that reminds me of something that happened recently

    pretty weird

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  • Emerlmaster999Emerlmaster999 Shark of Positivity Zora's DomainRegistered User regular
    Kwoaru wrote: »
    man the duck is evil and like the first thing link does in botw is pounce on that duck and crack its neck with his teeth like a wild animal

    its non optional you have to kill and eat that duck or its a game over

    I guess that duck didn't pay its bill.

    I thought this was an @OmnipotentBagel post when I initially read it.

    Cause that's a Joel-ass pun.

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  • Speed RacerSpeed Racer Scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratchRegistered User regular
    "there's a spoiler button" is some weak shit when people have demonstrated time and time again that they're terrible about spoiling context clues

    "I can't believe Darth Vader was Luke's <spoiler>father</spoiler> all along!" helps nobody and it absolutely, absolutely happens when conversations about spoilers drift on long enough

    but it's not like we can tell ya'll what to do

    Maddoc
  • Bluedude152Bluedude152 Registered User regular
    "there's a spoiler button" is some weak shit when people have demonstrated time and time again that they're terrible about spoiling context clues

    "I can't believe Darth Vader was Luke's <spoiler>father</spoiler> all along!" helps nobody and it absolutely, absolutely happens when conversations about spoilers drift on long enough

    but it's not like we can tell ya'll what to do

    Gone Home.....

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  • -Tal-Tal The history of Hyrule is the history of the Calamity Ganon. Registered User regular
    The mcelroy bros are not experts. Travis insists he's a sexpert, but
    if there's a degree on his wall, I haven't seen it

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  • OmnipotentBagelOmnipotentBagel Shell, Teeth, Eyes, Flame, Claws, Breath, Scales, FUN!Registered User regular
    "there's a spoiler button" is some weak shit when people have demonstrated time and time again that they're terrible about spoiling context clues

    "I can't believe Darth Vader was Luke's <spoiler>father</spoiler> all along!" helps nobody and it absolutely, absolutely happens when conversations about spoilers drift on long enough

    but it's not like we can tell ya'll what to do

    I mean, if people aren't going to use spoilers correctly, they're also not going to respect requests not to talk about spoilers. "People might misuse this feature so nobody can use it" is some weak-ass argument.

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