Racism undoubtedly caused this to go the way it did. It should not have happened this way. However, the police did what they were supposed to do even if they did it incredibly badly. The police officers involved are cowards and racists but the fact that they were responding to a person with a gun threatening people* means that they technically did nothing wrong. I am not saying that what they did was not wrong, and they likely are still able to be successfully charged with something (presuming an unbiased court). But they do have a real defense, unlike Darren Wilson whose defense was made up bullshit because he did everything wrong.
*whether or not the kid was threatening people that is what the police officers were told.
You have a really strange definition of "what they were supposed to do"
The answer to anything is not "Immediately shoot them"
Did they tell the kid to put down the gun? No, and not only for the reason that the kid wasn't holding the gun at the time
Even if that kid was literally threatening to murder everyone what the police did was still way past the border of acceptable. You're supposed to reason with the person.
Dispatchers don't tell people what callers "think" or guess. Especially when weapons are involved. So 911 didn't do anything wrong.
I also urge you to take a gander at the air soft gun which emphatically does not have an orange anything and in fact looks identical to the real thing.
Third the call was about a young male subject waving a gun at people. Not just sitting there with it.
That said. The video shows the officer being too quick to shoot. Did they yell hands up and then when the hands stayed near the waist he shot? I'm watching without sound so I honestly don't know.
It's a dumb tragedy, but there's enough problems with policing without getting things wrong. And yes I'm basically positive that race played a part so let's preemptively not argue about that.
"Is he black or white" is such a chilling question. Like, the guy is describing the kid, what he's wearing etc etc, but the only thing that matters to the operator is "is he black or white?" and "do you know him?"
Dispatchers don't tell people what callers "think" or guess. Especially when weapons are involved. So 911 didn't do anything wrong.
I also urge you to take a gander at the air soft gun which emphatically does not have an orange anything and in fact looks identical to the real thing.
Third the call was about a young male subject waving a gun at people. Not just sitting there with it.
That said. The video shows the officer being too quick to shoot. Did they yell hands up and then when the hands stayed near the waist he shot? I'm watching without sound so I honestly don't know.
It's a dumb tragedy, but there's enough problems with policing without getting things wrong. And yes I'm basically positive that race played a part so let's preemptively not argue about that.
Yeah we really need to strike down the policy that states that police should all be completely blind and therefore unable to judge situations on their own, or stuff like this will keep happening.
Or.... oh no? The police do, in fact, have working eyes? Oh.
Actually, "Those cops were blind" would also explain the driving.
There is literally zero way for anybody to convince me, ever, that rolling up to within feet of a child, jumping out of the car, and shooting him dead is an acceptable execution of policy or justice.
That it adheres to SOME regulations is irrelevant. It breaks more, and killed a goddamn child.
There is literally zero way for anybody to convince me, ever, that rolling up to within feet of a child, jumping out of the car, and shooting him dead is an acceptable execution of policy or justice.
That it adheres to SOME regulations is irrelevant. It breaks more, and killed a goddamn child.
I agree actually. The video is pretty damning. That was a shit job he did.
Yeah, I watched that video, and there is absolutely no way any assessment of the situation happened on that scene, prior to shooting.
That officer rolled up to that scene ready to kill, and that's exactly what happened.
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Clint EastwoodMy baby's in there someplaceShe crawled right inRegistered Userregular
Living in Missouri, a few hours from Ferguson, there's, if not a surprising amount, a lot more people defending the officer or shitting all over mike brown...shit, my stepbrother is about to graduate police academy, and even he thinks officer Wilson is a fuckup. The victim blaming sucks.
Hopefully, if what the officers did was not against procedure, they'll change their procedures when dealing with possible firearm incidents. And if what they did was against procedure then procedure should be more heavily enforced. [wishful thinking]
What they could have done is stayed at a distance, secured the area so there was no civilians nearby, and then brought in SWAT as a show of force. By then the kid would have surrendered and dropped the gun, or if it was a real criminal threat the police would have the situation well under control. The police get to use their power and show off their fancy military hardware and the kid lives.
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ArtreusI'm a wizardAnd that looks fucked upRegistered Userregular
edited November 2014
Image dump from the protest last night. After seeing pictures from the night before I understand the police presence a bit more. There were waaay more people Tuesday, I think. Only about 150-200 last night.
The early reports seem to have proven largely true, on the basic facts stated. There was a kid in a park, waving what looked like a gun around, and where exactly his hands and the gun-looking thing were was too ambiguous for safety when the cops showed up.
Except for the large piece left out, that the video we thankfully have shows.
I'm pretty sure it's an officer's job to assess the situation. Every other scrap of information you have is hearsay, from some unknown source. Like, i'm not a cop, but i'm preeetty sure if you're the first one there, it's your job to figure out what the fuck is going on first, before you do anything.
And what we see in the video is the cops roll up and shoot the kid. There is no way they took a second to see what was going on. In the video, the kid is already on the ground by the time the car stops.
Also, and this is important, we see that the kid is alone in the park when the cops show up. That means there is no one around for the kid to be a danger to, and the police should have noticed this. And that means the police can take some time assessing the situation from a comparatively safe location before rushing their ass into danger. They can also take a bit more time when they do push in. And they damn well should have, for their own and the communities safety.
But they didn't, and now an innocent kid is dead. I think the officers owe some atonement for this.
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WeaverWho are you?What do you want?Registered Userregular
The cops fucking executed that kid in Cleveland, and on video, but just like with Dillon Taylor, they'll be ruled justified. It's even more slam dunk for the cops this time because this kid had a real looking gun instead of nothing at all.
Disgusting.
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MrMonroepassed outon the floor nowRegistered Userregular
We were supposed to have a "no politics" rule at Thanksgiving dinner tonight.
Then my aunt, who suggested it in the first place, brought up Ferguson within about twenty minutes of us sitting down for hors d'oeuvres, and insisted that it wasn't a "political" issue.
Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.
The early reports seem to have proven largely true, on the basic facts stated. There was a kid in a park, waving what looked like a gun around, and where exactly his hands and the gun-looking thing were was too ambiguous for safety when the cops showed up.
Except for the large piece left out, that the video we thankfully have shows.
I'm pretty sure it's an officer's job to assess the situation. Every other scrap of information you have is hearsay, from some unknown source. Like, i'm not a cop, but i'm preeetty sure if you're the first one there, it's your job to figure out what the fuck is going on first, before you do anything.
And what we see in the video is the cops roll up and shoot the kid. There is no way they took a second to see what was going on. In the video, the kid is already on the ground by the time the car stops.
Also, and this is important, we see that the kid is alone in the park when the cops show up. That means there is no one around for the kid to be a danger to, and the police should have noticed this. And that means the police can take some time assessing the situation from a comparatively safe location before rushing their ass into danger. They can also take a bit more time when they do push in. And they damn well should have, for their own and the communities safety.
But they didn't, and now an innocent kid is dead. I think the officers owe some atonement for this.
Is this it America? Is this sacrifice pure enough for you to accept something is systemically wrong?
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Shortytouching the meatIntergalactic Cool CourtRegistered Userregular
No, people have decided that dead children are a fair price to pay for an armed society
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VivixenneRemember your training, and we'll get through this just fine.Registered Userregular
I don't think the UK was too surprised nothing changed, seems like no matter what happens nothing will change.
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Metzger MeisterIt Gets Worsebefore it gets any better.Registered Userregular
So there's this super rad song a buddy just linked me to that's all about police violence and stuff and I wanna link it somewhere but I'm not sure it's entirely appropriate for this thread and it's a liiiittle heavy for the YouTube thread.
I don't think the UK was too surprised nothing changed, seems like no matter what happens nothing will change.
Some states did actually change. My state of Maryland instituted much stronger gun control laws.
And we are now being sued by a collection of several other states to overturn our laws.
Hey how about you stay the fuck out of our state, you assholes? Go fuck up your own state, there's no reason for you to get involved in our shit.
New York did too but it was half stupid and half reasonable and entirely unfunded so it hasn't done much except create confusion. Though NY started with fairly reasonable gun control laws to begin with.
For awhile now they've been trying to leverage some states concealed carry being relatively easy into forcing that on every state because of the full faith and credit clause of the Constitution. See, local governance is only a good thing when we're stopping the gays from marrying or teaching the "controversy" surrounding evolution.
The really annoying thing is that there are some emerging issues in gun laws that a reasonable country would deal with (3D printing, "unfinished" receivers with the increase of hobbyist CNC's, the rise of pneumatic powered airguns, hell, even "bump firing" accessories) that we will never ever even discuss because of the NRA.
The reaction is sorta New Jersey's fault for writing a shitty law. NJ has a law on the books that says once somebody sells a "smart gun" anywhere in the US that after 3 years all guns in NJ have to have that system in place. So not wanting somebody to sell it is logical if you want NJ to still have access to "normal" guns. They're not against it for no reason though I strongly suspect plenty of them would be against it even without the NJ laws existence.
The death threat thing is just completely fucking insane.
Posts
You have a really strange definition of "what they were supposed to do"
The answer to anything is not "Immediately shoot them"
Did they tell the kid to put down the gun? No, and not only for the reason that the kid wasn't holding the gun at the time
I also urge you to take a gander at the air soft gun which emphatically does not have an orange anything and in fact looks identical to the real thing.
Third the call was about a young male subject waving a gun at people. Not just sitting there with it.
That said. The video shows the officer being too quick to shoot. Did they yell hands up and then when the hands stayed near the waist he shot? I'm watching without sound so I honestly don't know.
It's a dumb tragedy, but there's enough problems with policing without getting things wrong. And yes I'm basically positive that race played a part so let's preemptively not argue about that.
Steam - Talon Valdez :Blizz - Talonious#1860 : Xbox Live & LoL - Talonious Monk @TaloniousMonk Hail Satan
Don't sensationalize needlessly.
Steam - Talon Valdez :Blizz - Talonious#1860 : Xbox Live & LoL - Talonious Monk @TaloniousMonk Hail Satan
Yeah we really need to strike down the policy that states that police should all be completely blind and therefore unable to judge situations on their own, or stuff like this will keep happening.
Or.... oh no? The police do, in fact, have working eyes? Oh.
Actually, "Those cops were blind" would also explain the driving.
Thanks. sorry, I'll edit.
It does sound really bad in context though.
But ok
Steam - Talon Valdez :Blizz - Talonious#1860 : Xbox Live & LoL - Talonious Monk @TaloniousMonk Hail Satan
That it adheres to SOME regulations is irrelevant. It breaks more, and killed a goddamn child.
I agree actually. The video is pretty damning. That was a shit job he did.
Steam - Talon Valdez :Blizz - Talonious#1860 : Xbox Live & LoL - Talonious Monk @TaloniousMonk Hail Satan
That officer rolled up to that scene ready to kill, and that's exactly what happened.
What they could have done is stayed at a distance, secured the area so there was no civilians nearby, and then brought in SWAT as a show of force. By then the kid would have surrendered and dropped the gun, or if it was a real criminal threat the police would have the situation well under control. The police get to use their power and show off their fancy military hardware and the kid lives.
Though yeah graffiti out there is a bit surprising
Key word here is "relatively."
The early reports seem to have proven largely true, on the basic facts stated. There was a kid in a park, waving what looked like a gun around, and where exactly his hands and the gun-looking thing were was too ambiguous for safety when the cops showed up.
Except for the large piece left out, that the video we thankfully have shows.
I'm pretty sure it's an officer's job to assess the situation. Every other scrap of information you have is hearsay, from some unknown source. Like, i'm not a cop, but i'm preeetty sure if you're the first one there, it's your job to figure out what the fuck is going on first, before you do anything.
And what we see in the video is the cops roll up and shoot the kid. There is no way they took a second to see what was going on. In the video, the kid is already on the ground by the time the car stops.
Also, and this is important, we see that the kid is alone in the park when the cops show up. That means there is no one around for the kid to be a danger to, and the police should have noticed this. And that means the police can take some time assessing the situation from a comparatively safe location before rushing their ass into danger. They can also take a bit more time when they do push in. And they damn well should have, for their own and the communities safety.
But they didn't, and now an innocent kid is dead. I think the officers owe some atonement for this.
Disgusting.
Then my aunt, who suggested it in the first place, brought up Ferguson within about twenty minutes of us sitting down for hors d'oeuvres, and insisted that it wasn't a "political" issue.
He earned it.
Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.
Is this it America? Is this sacrifice pure enough for you to accept something is systemically wrong?
The general reaction in Australia to the failed gun control laws after Sandy Hook was basically just jaw-dropped, stunned silence.
And we are now being sued by a collection of several other states to overturn our laws.
Hey how about you stay the fuck out of our state, you assholes? Go fuck up your own state, there's no reason for you to get involved in our shit.
PSN/Steam/NNID: SyphonBlue | BNet: SyphonBlue#1126
I did not know that! It must not have got much media attention over here, which is a shame because thats a step in the right direction!
Here is a good article where you can see the states that are run by literal crazy sociopaths vs non-crazy pants people
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2013/12/10/us/state-gun-laws-enacted-in-the-year-since-newtown.html?_r=0
PSN/Steam/NNID: SyphonBlue | BNet: SyphonBlue#1126
New York did too but it was half stupid and half reasonable and entirely unfunded so it hasn't done much except create confusion. Though NY started with fairly reasonable gun control laws to begin with.
For awhile now they've been trying to leverage some states concealed carry being relatively easy into forcing that on every state because of the full faith and credit clause of the Constitution. See, local governance is only a good thing when we're stopping the gays from marrying or teaching the "controversy" surrounding evolution.
The really annoying thing is that there are some emerging issues in gun laws that a reasonable country would deal with (3D printing, "unfinished" receivers with the increase of hobbyist CNC's, the rise of pneumatic powered airguns, hell, even "bump firing" accessories) that we will never ever even discuss because of the NRA.
That is a really interesting infograph. Its good to see some states have improved things. Positive for the future? I hope so!
Was.
Because gun rights sociopaths forced him to cancel his plans after he received innumerable death threats.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/maryland-dealer-will-defy-gun-rights-advocates-by-selling-nations-first-smart-gun/2014/05/01/564efa48-d14d-11e3-937f-d3026234b51c_story.html
PSN/Steam/NNID: SyphonBlue | BNet: SyphonBlue#1126
The reaction is sorta New Jersey's fault for writing a shitty law. NJ has a law on the books that says once somebody sells a "smart gun" anywhere in the US that after 3 years all guns in NJ have to have that system in place. So not wanting somebody to sell it is logical if you want NJ to still have access to "normal" guns. They're not against it for no reason though I strongly suspect plenty of them would be against it even without the NJ laws existence.
The death threat thing is just completely fucking insane.
You know. In all the gun fights I get in that normally I would survive.
Steam - Talon Valdez :Blizz - Talonious#1860 : Xbox Live & LoL - Talonious Monk @TaloniousMonk Hail Satan