We're told that when an Earth is blown up, that Universe is safe from being destroyed, but if that's the case, how do those universes go away in time for Secret Wars where there is only one universe left?
Accoridng to Reed-
"Something happened -- I don't know exactly what-- but the current number of remaining universes now stands at less than two dozen."
Could be Rabum Alal is not content to let Earth-less universes survive, and is on the move towards endgame so he's begun cleaning up. Black Swan did say that the Great Game of Worlds was only delaying the inevitable, and that the Great Destroyer would take everything in the end.
The stars are dying. The Celestials and the cosmic big-shots have vanished. There's more going on than just Incursions between Earths.
We're told that when an Earth is blown up, that Universe is safe from being destroyed, but if that's the case, how do those universes go away in time for Secret Wars where there is only one universe left?
Accoridng to Reed-
"Something happened -- I don't know exactly what-- but the current number of remaining universes now stands at less than two dozen."
Could be Rabum Alal is not content to let Earth-less universes survive, and is on the move towards endgame so he's begun cleaning up. Black Swan did say that the Great Game of Worlds was only delaying the inevitable, and that the Great Destroyer would take everything in the end.
The stars are dying. The Celestials and the cosmic big-shots have vanished. There's more going on than just Incursions between Earths.
Maybe
once the Earth is gone there's just nothing connecting those universes to ours anymore and they just aren't even detectable at that point. Whether they continue to exist or not.
Nah, reading the scene, it's more that "something happened" above and beyond the usual process.
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Golden YakBurnished BovineThe sunny beaches of CanadaRegistered Userregular
Some crazy, crazy stuff going on in Avengers 41:
In the Ultimate universe on Earth-1610, Reed Richards is brought in by Nick Fury to work for a new and improved S.H.I.E.L.D, with Fury trusting that Richards is on the level after his recent moves towards redeeming his past actions in unleashing the City on the world.
Fast forwards 6 months, and Ultimate Reed appears to be back to his evil self, having reclaimed his identity as the Maker and reunited with the artifical intelligence that controlled the City. Together, they're acting as the Ultimate universe's anti-Incursion force, having destroy 67 worlds. Ultimate Reed and the City discover that the number of universes in the Multiverse has dropped from hundreds of thousands to a few dozen in a single day, and they detect another Incursion approaching.
The Incursion involves the world that Namor and the Cabal were recently trapped on by the Illuminati - a never-before-seen three-way Incursion, described by Black Swan as a gift from Rabbum Alal. The Cabal escapes the destruction of the alternate Earth and arrives on Earth-1610, to be greeted by Ultimate Reed.
Meanwhile, in Earth-616, the galactic empires of the Kree, Shi'ar, Skrulls, Brood, and the Negative Zone discover the nature of the Incursions, and decide that the only way to save the universe is to destroy Earth.
In the Ultimate universe on Earth-1610, Reed Richards is brought in by Nick Fury to work for a new and improved S.H.I.E.L.D, with Fury trusting that Richards is on the level after his recent moves towards redeeming his past actions in unleashing the City on the world.
Fast forwards 6 months, and Ultimate Reed appears to be back to his evil self, having reclaimed his identity as the Maker and reunited with the artifical intelligence that controlled the City. Together, they're acting as the Ultimate universe's anti-Incursion force, having destroy 67 worlds. Ultimate Reed and the City discover that the number of universes in the Multiverse has dropped from hundreds of thousands to a few dozen in a single day, and they detect another Incursion approaching.
The Incursion involves the world that Namor and the Cabal were recently trapped on by the Illuminati - a never-before-seen three-way Incursion, described by Black Swan as a gift from Rabbum Alal. The Cabal escapes the destruction of the alternate Earth and arrives on Earth-1610, to be greeted by Ultimate Reed.
Meanwhile, in Earth-616, the galactic empires of the Kree, Shi'ar, Skrulls, Brood, and the Negative Zone discover the nature of the Incursions, and decide that the only way to save the universe is to destroy Earth.
I think saying that
Is somewhat misleading considering a. He was never really not evil b. He is working for Nick Fury and SHIELD c. What he's doing is somewhat morally complicated and d. he seems to express genuine distaste for the thing he's currently doing.
In the Ultimate universe on Earth-1610, Reed Richards is brought in by Nick Fury to work for a new and improved S.H.I.E.L.D, with Fury trusting that Richards is on the level after his recent moves towards redeeming his past actions in unleashing the City on the world.
Fast forwards 6 months, and Ultimate Reed appears to be back to his evil self, having reclaimed his identity as the Maker and reunited with the artifical intelligence that controlled the City. Together, they're acting as the Ultimate universe's anti-Incursion force, having destroy 67 worlds. Ultimate Reed and the City discover that the number of universes in the Multiverse has dropped from hundreds of thousands to a few dozen in a single day, and they detect another Incursion approaching.
The Incursion involves the world that Namor and the Cabal were recently trapped on by the Illuminati - a never-before-seen three-way Incursion, described by Black Swan as a gift from Rabbum Alal. The Cabal escapes the destruction of the alternate Earth and arrives on Earth-1610, to be greeted by Ultimate Reed.
Meanwhile, in Earth-616, the galactic empires of the Kree, Shi'ar, Skrulls, Brood, and the Negative Zone discover the nature of the Incursions, and decide that the only way to save the universe is to destroy Earth.
I havent read this book yet, but its my impression that reed back to his 'evil' self and performing this task would be something that the ultimates version of shield would be encouraging completely. Ultimates in 1610 were always so much more 'get the job done so that we come out on top' and less 'how do we do it without slaughtering billions'.
does anyone get the feeling that Doom will be the one to save the day in Secret Wars
Well, y'know what they say: all hope lies in Doom.
I could care less about the new Avengers 2099, but Doom 2099 better make at least a cameo in 'Secret Wars 2099' or I'll be a sad panda. He's the best 2099 character next to Miguel! Peter David should at least acknowledge him and what Ellis did with him
I think the official line-up goes Reed, Pym, Banner, Doom, T'challa, Stark, Cho, then Beast. Functionally, Reed then T'Challa, because the next two are their own worst enemy.
I think the official line-up goes Reed, Pym, Banner, Doom, T'challa, Stark, Cho, then Beast. Functionally, Reed then T'Challa, because the next two are their own worst enemy.
interesting...
i always had Reed as number 1 and Doom as number 2...... and then T'challa as number 3...
what do you mean the next two are their own worst enemy?
I think the official line-up goes Reed, Pym, Banner, Doom, T'challa, Stark, Cho, then Beast. Functionally, Reed then T'Challa, because the next two are their own worst enemy.
interesting...
i always had Reed as number 1 and Doom as number 2...... and then T'challa as number 3...
what do you mean the next two are their own worst enemy?
I guess he's meaning that pym and banner are kind of self destructive.
I think the official line-up goes Reed, Pym, Banner, Doom, T'challa, Stark, Cho, then Beast. Functionally, Reed then T'Challa, because the next two are their own worst enemy.
interesting...
i always had Reed as number 1 and Doom as number 2...... and then T'challa as number 3...
what do you mean the next two are their own worst enemy?
I guess he's meaning that pym and banner are kind of self destructive.
That couldn't possibly be the right listing, since cho is the 7th smartest person in the world!
Cho was number seven in my list.
Anyways, the whole thing is pretty rough. Cho's original tagline didn't include Pym.
Banner later moved him down to tenth, but whatever.
The 8th is T'challa's own estimation, but I think the others rate him higher.
The list I gave before was those taken in the in Intelligencia's plot in Hulk. Those are the eight they took. And if you're trying to put McCoy above T'challa, I shall call you a liar.
what do you mean the next two are their own worst enemy?
Pym and Banner are generally more self-destructive than their other counterparts. Reed and Stark are also horribly self-destructive anytime they take their respective supporting casts out of the picture (it's generally confirmed that Reed without Susan is always reasonably evil).
Reed's daughter Valeria is as smart as he is. She just lacks the life experience he has.
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TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
I don't know if T'Challa is ahead of Tony. BP is smart, but he's smart in a way Cyclops is smart, it's less in the science and technology and more planning, governing, etc. etc.
Who is the original funky bunch from NYU or whatever college they all went to in the 60's? Reed, Stark, Pym, Doom, Banner? That's how I would place it maybe.
If Civil War had one good scene it was the first McDuffie FF issue where the Mad Thinker looks over Reed's probability wall because he's one of the few who can verify it, at least Reed holds him in regard to be in the upper echelon.
And I still maintain that the actual smartest person in the Marvel Universe is the one that went "Yeah, not going to bother with this superhero/villain business, I'm going to live the good life in my personal pocket dimension surrounded by android butlers."
So basically Newton Destine.
Slightly more serious: I always had trouble with that whole Top 10 of smartest people on Earth, because intelligence is not a straight line and in comics intelligence always turns into "the guy that built the biggest raygun" (and I'm a beta science guy myself). I guess they do this because they always have those rankings for other type of characters (Flash is the fastest, Hulk is the strongest etc.), but those tend to be things that can be easier measured. (and even those things can be a bit more complicated. There was a scene way back in New Warriors where Namorita and Rage are doing some strength tests and it turned out that while Namorita could lift far more than Rage, Rage could actually punch harder.)
And I still maintain that the actual smartest person in the Marvel Universe is the one that went "Yeah, not going to bother with this superhero/villain business, I'm going to live the good life in my personal pocket dimension surrounded by android butlers."
So basically Newton Destine.
Slightly more serious: I always had trouble with that whole Top 10 of smartest people on Earth, because intelligence is not a straight line and in comics intelligence always turns into "the guy that built the biggest raygun" (and I'm a beta science guy myself). I guess they do this because they always have those rankings for other type of characters (Flash is the fastest, Hulk is the strongest etc.), but those tend to be things that can be easier measured. (and even those things can be a bit more complicated. There was a scene way back in New Warriors where Namorita and Rage are doing some strength tests and it turned out that while Namorita could lift far more than Rage, Rage could actually punch harder.)
science tends to be objective, so scientific intelligence, in theory, is much more objective then the other intelligences, so i guess it makes much more sense, logically then to rank in comics than other intelligences
I think Pym deserves special recognition, for being an expert in such disparate fields as Entymology, Robots/Computer Science and particle physics.
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TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
I sorta am looking at it like the trading card stats where science has different power levels for each field.
For instance Tony is a 10 in technology/weapons but maybe a 4 in nature or whatever some loser science is. Beast is smart in genetics, maybe even better than Reed because he solved the Legacy Virus, but has flaws in other aspects (time travel, bro). Reed is smart in everything, like an 8 or 9 across all fields, with a bonus added if he and Sue are happy. Doom might be one or two stats lower than Reed but then oh waitaminute, here comes his occult knowledge showing up but is also hampered by his ego.
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Accoridng to Reed-
Could be Rabum Alal is not content to let Earth-less universes survive, and is on the move towards endgame so he's begun cleaning up. Black Swan did say that the Great Game of Worlds was only delaying the inevitable, and that the Great Destroyer would take everything in the end.
The stars are dying. The Celestials and the cosmic big-shots have vanished. There's more going on than just Incursions between Earths.
Maybe
Nah, reading the scene, it's more that "something happened" above and beyond the usual process.
Fast forwards 6 months, and Ultimate Reed appears to be back to his evil self, having reclaimed his identity as the Maker and reunited with the artifical intelligence that controlled the City. Together, they're acting as the Ultimate universe's anti-Incursion force, having destroy 67 worlds. Ultimate Reed and the City discover that the number of universes in the Multiverse has dropped from hundreds of thousands to a few dozen in a single day, and they detect another Incursion approaching.
The Incursion involves the world that Namor and the Cabal were recently trapped on by the Illuminati - a never-before-seen three-way Incursion, described by Black Swan as a gift from Rabbum Alal. The Cabal escapes the destruction of the alternate Earth and arrives on Earth-1610, to be greeted by Ultimate Reed.
Meanwhile, in Earth-616, the galactic empires of the Kree, Shi'ar, Skrulls, Brood, and the Negative Zone discover the nature of the Incursions, and decide that the only way to save the universe is to destroy Earth.
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No way. In fact, it looks like they're setting 616 Doom up as being one who will not be fucked with through all of this.
I havent read this book yet, but its my impression that reed back to his 'evil' self and performing this task would be something that the ultimates version of shield would be encouraging completely. Ultimates in 1610 were always so much more 'get the job done so that we come out on top' and less 'how do we do it without slaughtering billions'.
Heh...you just described the original Secret Wars.
Well, y'know what they say: all hope lies in Doom.
I think the official line-up goes Reed, Pym, Banner, Doom, T'challa, Stark, Cho, then Beast. Functionally, Reed then T'Challa, because the next two are their own worst enemy.
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interesting...
i always had Reed as number 1 and Doom as number 2...... and then T'challa as number 3...
what do you mean the next two are their own worst enemy?
I guess he's meaning that pym and banner are kind of self destructive.
1. Reed
2. Doom
3. T'challa would be my top 3
EDIT: Also, man did the Leader get a short stick
"Here, you're super power is ENHANCED INTELLECT! But you're still not as smart as the most naturally smart person on Earth. Sorry!"
The Gamma Gods be cruel.
Cho was number seven in my list.
Anyways, the whole thing is pretty rough. Cho's original tagline didn't include Pym.
Banner later moved him down to tenth, but whatever.
The 8th is T'challa's own estimation, but I think the others rate him higher.
The list I gave before was those taken in the in Intelligencia's plot in Hulk. Those are the eight they took. And if you're trying to put McCoy above T'challa, I shall call you a liar.
Pym and Banner are generally more self-destructive than their other counterparts. Reed and Stark are also horribly self-destructive anytime they take their respective supporting casts out of the picture (it's generally confirmed that Reed without Susan is always reasonably evil).
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I write about video games and stuff. It is fun. Sometimes.
Where are the ladies of super science?
erm
I dunno maybe Jean Grey was super smart? I don't think so though
Ultimate Susan Storm is the best I got off the off my head. Kavita Rao from the X-Club?
That's... kinda sad.
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Who is the original funky bunch from NYU or whatever college they all went to in the 60's? Reed, Stark, Pym, Doom, Banner? That's how I would place it maybe.
If Civil War had one good scene it was the first McDuffie FF issue where the Mad Thinker looks over Reed's probability wall because he's one of the few who can verify it, at least Reed holds him in regard to be in the upper echelon.
It's just a matter of what order they come in after Reed.
Man, once you add in the Future Foundation and other villains, it gets real complicated.
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I write about video games and stuff. It is fun. Sometimes.
T'Challa spends loads of time mcgyvering all manner of stuff
Valeria confidently asserted herself to be smarter than Reed already during Hickman's F4/FF run, although she keeps it on the down low.
he would be equal to Pym and Banner
So basically Newton Destine.
Slightly more serious: I always had trouble with that whole Top 10 of smartest people on Earth, because intelligence is not a straight line and in comics intelligence always turns into "the guy that built the biggest raygun" (and I'm a beta science guy myself). I guess they do this because they always have those rankings for other type of characters (Flash is the fastest, Hulk is the strongest etc.), but those tend to be things that can be easier measured. (and even those things can be a bit more complicated. There was a scene way back in New Warriors where Namorita and Rage are doing some strength tests and it turned out that while Namorita could lift far more than Rage, Rage could actually punch harder.)
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science tends to be objective, so scientific intelligence, in theory, is much more objective then the other intelligences, so i guess it makes much more sense, logically then to rank in comics than other intelligences
1. Reed/Valeria(for now, as in, kid Valeria, right this second.)
2. Doom
3. Tchalla probably?
4. Other losers.
For instance Tony is a 10 in technology/weapons but maybe a 4 in nature or whatever some loser science is. Beast is smart in genetics, maybe even better than Reed because he solved the Legacy Virus, but has flaws in other aspects (time travel, bro). Reed is smart in everything, like an 8 or 9 across all fields, with a bonus added if he and Sue are happy. Doom might be one or two stats lower than Reed but then oh waitaminute, here comes his occult knowledge showing up but is also hampered by his ego.
i agree with this list
i feel like most comic book/marvel fans would universally agree that reed is number 1 followed super closely by doom as number 2..
3,4,5 and so on tends to get more subjective with t'challa, tony, pym etc. all being interchanged