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Secret Wars (formerly Avengers - the Multiverse Saga)

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    KyouguKyougu Registered User regular
    HadjiQuest wrote: »
    Secret Wars 2 made me interested in reading some of the tie-ins that I had 0 interest in before, especially the ones on and behind the wall...

    This.

    I haven't bought singles in a long time (Unlimited and forum talks keeps me up to date) and definately hadn't jumped onto an event in years. Secret Wars seemed appealing.

    Issue 1 was good, but 2? DAMN. Now I'm really interested in the world that's been built and looking forward to all the side content.

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    darklite_xdarklite_x I'm not an r-tard... Registered User regular
    Just finished issue 1. Not bad.

    Steam ID: darklite_x Xbox Gamertag: Darklite 37 PSN:Rage_Kage_37 Battle.Net:darklite#2197
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    FakefauxFakefaux Cóiste Bodhar Driving John McCain to meet some Iraqis who'd very much like to make his acquaintanceRegistered User regular
    edited May 2015
    So, is Sheriff Strange
    the 616 Strange? Or is it the one that was possessing that version of Frank Castle? Because if Sheriff Strange is the 616 incarnation, he seems like he's probably been Doomwashed. Also, how the hell are all the "_____ of Watoomb" or "______ of Cytorrak" sort of spells still working if all the realities those entities existed in have disappeared?

    Fakefaux on
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    ManetherenWolfManetherenWolf Registered User regular
    Fakefaux wrote: »
    So, is Sheriff Strange
    the 616 Strange? Or is it the one that was possessing that version of Frank Castle? Because if Sheriff Strange is the 616 incarnation, he seems like he's probably been Doomwashed. Also, how the hell are all the "_____ of Watoomb" or "______ of Cytorrak" sort of spells still working if all the realities those entities existed in have disappeared?
    Because Doom wills it so.

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    Golden YakGolden Yak Burnished Bovine The sunny beaches of CanadaRegistered User regular
    Fakefaux wrote: »
    So, is Sheriff Strange
    the 616 Strange? Or is it the one that was possessing that version of Frank Castle? Because if Sheriff Strange is the 616 incarnation, he seems like he's probably been Doomwashed. Also, how the hell are all the "_____ of Watoomb" or "______ of Cytorrak" sort of spells still working if all the realities those entities existed in have disappeared?
    I think that any characters who were outside either the Future Foundation ark or Cyclops's Pheonix Egg are likely no longer identifiable as '616' or whatever their previous incarnations were - they've been folded into the new reality of Battleworld. Maybe anyone in the Manhattans is also their original selves, since that city is clearly labeled in 616 and 1610 areas.

    Given how many titles there are, we might get a few duplicate folks here and there - Castle mentions there's 'a Hulk, a Wolverine,' etc. Could be there's several Stranges.

    Though how much of that is a case of Battleworld's nature and how much is multiple writers messing around outside story convention, I don't know.

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    FakefauxFakefaux Cóiste Bodhar Driving John McCain to meet some Iraqis who'd very much like to make his acquaintanceRegistered User regular
    I guess I figured that
    since Strange was at ground zero with Doom and Molecule Man he might have avoided having his memory/personality rewritten.

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    Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    IIRC, Marvel confirmed that
    Sheriff Strange is 616 Strange

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    BladeOfSanjuroBladeOfSanjuro Registered User regular
    burned the 50 or whatever bucks it was to get the 6 months back Marvel Unlimited is to current on New Avengers/Avengers and Secret Wars #1 and #2.

    Not disappointed at all. Ending of SW #1 was perfect.
    In regards to who appears to be themselves still:

    Doom 616 - God Mode in Doomsdadt
    Strange 616 - Sheriff Mode in Doomsdadt
    Sue, Valeria and Franklin 616 - Royal Family in Doomsdadt
    The Cabal 616 + Master 1610 + Black Swan whatever # she came from - Still themselves
    Fury, Hawkeye, Grimm, Stark 1610 - Still Themselves in the merged manhattan
    All New Ultimates 1610 - Still Themselves in the merged manhattan

    616 is a little different.. the '616' Iron Man in Ultimate End appears to be like a version of him pre Hickman Avengers.
    '616' Cyclops in Ultimate End is not Phoenix-y at all either, which is weird.
    There is a Doc Green in Planet Hulk and in Ultimate End.

    Spider-Man... maybe the one in Ultimate End is '616'?

    All MODOKs - dead?

    Planet Hulk Captain America - Oh god please be 616 Cap

    Everyone Manifold pulled into Reed/T'challa's lifeboat in SW#1 - yet to be seen

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    TexiKenTexiKen Dammit! That fish really got me!Registered User regular
    edited May 2015
    Ultimate End #1.

    I have know idea what I was reading. I expected it to be about.....the Ultimate Universe, silly me, I know, but a part of me feels like it was Bendis trying to thumb his nose at what Hickman's done the past few years.
    which Tony is which? Which Banner is that? Emma is from pre AvX era?

    I just.....what was that?


    edit: A-Force was fine but for some reason I thought they would have been the regular 616 people trying to make this little world safe, something like Convergence was. So I'm just gonna sit the series out until it gets back to the regular universe.


    I kind of thought the Battleworlds were going to remain their own distinct zones to tell the stories in them a bit, but it doesn't seem like it.

    TexiKen on
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    AutomaticzenAutomaticzen Registered User regular
    In regards to who appears to be themselves still:

    Doom 616 - God Mode in Doomsdadt
    Strange 616 - Sheriff Mode in Doomsdadt
    Sue, Valeria and Franklin 616 - Royal Family in Doomsdadt
    The Cabal 616 + Master 1610 + Black Swan whatever # she came from - Still themselves
    Fury, Hawkeye, Grimm, Stark 1610 - Still Themselves in the merged manhattan
    All New Ultimates 1610 - Still Themselves in the merged manhattan

    616 is a little different.. the '616' Iron Man in Ultimate End appears to be like a version of him pre Hickman Avengers.
    '616' Cyclops in Ultimate End is not Phoenix-y at all either, which is weird.
    There is a Doc Green in Planet Hulk and in Ultimate End.

    Spider-Man... maybe the one in Ultimate End is '616'?

    All MODOKs - dead?

    Planet Hulk Captain America - Oh god please be 616 Cap

    Everyone Manifold pulled into Reed/T'challa's lifeboat in SW#1 - yet to be seen
    Actually, Ultimate End #1 seems to be a completely new merge of 616 and 1610. I think they're all recreations and I'm pretty sure that the Raft survivors aren't involved in the Battleworld books at all. The Manhattan crew has no memory of the merge, instead thinking that Ultimate Stark caused it. Stark in this is wearing the Bleeding Edge armor, so he's Heroic Age Iron Man, but Hulk is Doc. Green, so he's Marvel Now Hulk. Cyclops and Storm are Marvel Now, but Emma is prior. There are three Spider-Men running around: Original Spider-Man, Manhattan 616/1610 Spider-Man, and Regency Spider-Man (Renew Your Vows).
    TexiKen wrote: »
    A-Force was fine but for some reason I thought they would have been the regular 616 people trying to make this little world safe, something like Convergence was. So I'm just gonna sit the series out until it gets back to the regular universe.

    I think they'll pop up towards the end of the mini.

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    nightmarennynightmarenny Registered User regular
    edited May 2015
    In Ultimate End its pretty obvious who is from what world. What is going on is another story.
    It can't be the 616 like everybody assumed. Tony should be dead and Spidy and Cyke should both be on the arc.

    nightmarenny on
    Quire.jpg
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    Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    In Ultimate End its pretty obvious who is from what world. What is going on is another story.
    It can't be the 616 like everybody assumed. Tony should be dead and Spidy and Cyke should both be on the arc.
    It says 616 on the Battleworld map.

    Also, aside from Doom's crew and the arks, everybody died.

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    BlankZoeBlankZoe Registered User regular
    The really confusing part is that the map has both Ultimate and 616 shit on it

    Like if they were just from another domain that would make sense but the way they tall about it being another dimension seems contradictory to Battleworld's whole thing

    I'm guessing we will get a firm explanation in the next issue when the Thors formally charge them

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    BlankZoeBlankZoe Registered User regular
    TexiKen wrote: »
    Ultimate End #1.

    I have know idea what I was reading. I expected it to be about.....the Ultimate Universe, silly me, I know, but a part of me feels like it was Bendis trying to thumb his nose at what Hickman's done the past few years.
    which Tony is which? Which Banner is that? Emma is from pre AvX era?

    I just.....what was that?


    edit: A-Force was fine but for some reason I thought they would have been the regular 616 people trying to make this little world safe, something like Convergence was. So I'm just gonna sit the series out until it gets back to the regular universe.


    I kind of thought the Battleworlds were going to remain their own distinct zones to tell the stories in them a bit, but it doesn't seem like it.
    I don't really get how they aren't in distinct zones

    Like A-Force was all about Arcadia, Planet Hulk starts in Greenland and ends there and will be set there for the forsee able future, Master of Kung-Fu is all about K'un Lun, etc.

    Like they are all part of the same world ruled by Doom so aspects like his god hood and Strange as his Sheriff are present in all of them but they seem fairly self contained otherwise

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    nightmarennynightmarenny Registered User regular
    In Ultimate End its pretty obvious who is from what world. What is going on is another story.
    It can't be the 616 like everybody assumed. Tony should be dead and Spidy and Cyke should both be on the arc.
    It says 616 on the Battleworld map.

    Also, aside from Doom's crew and the arks, everybody died.

    Yeah but Ultimate End implies things are a lot more complicated.

    It appears the map may be wrong.

    Quire.jpg
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    AutomaticzenAutomaticzen Registered User regular
    In Ultimate End its pretty obvious who is from what world. What is going on is another story.
    It can't be the 616 like everybody assumed. Tony should be dead and Spidy and Cyke should both be on the arc.
    It says 616 on the Battleworld map.

    Also, aside from Doom's crew and the arks, everybody died.

    It's representative of 616 and Ultimate Marvel, but it's not a simple divide. It's a weird mix.

    c5y9vGc.jpg
    They're not the "real" versions, as Spider-Man would know that everyone know who he is, via Spider-Men.

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    Linespider5Linespider5 ALL HAIL KING KILLMONGER Registered User regular
    So, uh...Battleworld. Question.

    Am I understanding that like all the regular-ass humans of the Marvel universes are dead? Is...that what's happened?

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    Golden YakGolden Yak Burnished Bovine The sunny beaches of CanadaRegistered User regular
    edited May 2015
    No, there are populations of ordinary humans living in the nations of Battleworld.

    edit:
    I think that ostensibly, everyone in the multiverse has died from the Incursions.

    However, they have been reborn in new incarnations as citizens of Battleworld.

    This goes for ordinary civilians as well as heroes and villains.

    A handful of pre-Battleworld multiverse survivors do exist (the Cabal, etc.).

    Golden Yak on
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    Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    everyone who didn't make it to battleworld is dead, ostensibly (this will presumably be handwaved back to normal in some way later on)

    also, that map reminded me of the daredevil map of new york:

    mta-according-to-daredevil.jpg

    NREqxl5.jpg
    it was the smallest on the list but
    Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
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    SpoitSpoit *twitch twitch* Registered User regular
    I still say that it's probably bendis being bendis

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    NeoTomaNeoToma Registered User regular
    Langly wrote: »
    man that bottom left thor looks like shit

    He came from the x-men 92 nation




    The joke is he looks straight out a 90s Nintendo ad

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    nightmarennynightmarenny Registered User regular
    edited May 2015
    Spoit wrote: »
    I still say that it's probably bendis being bendis

    How weird and off everything is, is pretty clearly a plot point.

    Also look at the map Auto posted. It calls out something as being from 1610 but nothing from 616.

    Pretty odd.

    The full Battleworld map list a separate area right next to 1610 Manhattan as the 616 Manhattan. Not this interwoven shit. Its probably some third Earth I think.

    nightmarenny on
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    BlankZoeBlankZoe Registered User regular
    I don't think it is Bendis being Bendis this time

    It is literally the last Ultimate story as far as editorial is concerned and is one of the bigger tie ins to the biggest event they've had since AvX

    Totally contradicting the core concept of Battleworld seems like a very basic thing he would get called on. Chances are we just haven't been given the whole picture and will probably be more clear after the next issue when they seemingly get formal charges for whatever happened

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    Bobby DerieBobby Derie Registered User regular
    I still want some sort of fourth-wall breaking comic where somebody that remembers the original Secret Wars/Doom World is freaking out about being the only one that seems to remember this happened before.

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    Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    Doesn't Wolverine from Old Man Logan remember how things were?

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    OwenashiOwenashi Registered User regular
    edited May 2015
    Doesn't Wolverine from Old Man Logan remember how things were?

    I heard that too. I heard that the protagonists of SW: Spider-Verse also know something's off.
    Which isn't helped by apparently some of them being 'misplaced' in Battleworld such as Gwen appearing in a realm where she and Spider-Man are both dead.

    On the topic of Ultimate End, CBR posted a couple of textless preview pages for issue #2.
    ULTEND2015002014-col-e7e42.jpg
    ULTEND2015002002scol-be6e8.jpg

    Looks like whatever's going on in the realm UE's set at, it's quite serious seeing how many Thors were brought in. Interesting that Ultimate Thor didn't come along to potentially drop the hammer on both groups of heroes.

    Owenashi on
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    TexiKenTexiKen Dammit! That fish really got me!Registered User regular
    Regarding the new world and people from the old
    I would think someone from the Ark is still themselves to compliment The Cabal. It seemingly can't be the ones who were in the broken apart piece given Doom's circle, but maybe T'Challa (which would tie nicely to being a foil for Doom given their past interactions)

    Now, this might be a stretch (ha, future pun!), but maybe Reed is still himself, but because he lost a bit of his hand in the first issue that is enough of Reed in Doom's new world to make him be successful as Battleworld god? That way it doesn't completely take away from Doom being Doom, but still allows Reed to try and really put things right.

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    Golden YakGolden Yak Burnished Bovine The sunny beaches of CanadaRegistered User regular
    I still want some sort of fourth-wall breaking comic where somebody that remembers the original Secret Wars/Doom World is freaking out about being the only one that seems to remember this happened before.

    comics-deadpool_secret_secret_wars001-e1423838776482.jpg?w=453&h=688
    Well, sort of. So far the book is Deadpool giving a re-telling of the original Secret Wars with himself included this time ('here's what REALLY happened!').

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    SpoitSpoit *twitch twitch* Registered User regular
    TexiKen wrote: »
    Regarding the new world and people from the old
    I would think someone from the Ark is still themselves to compliment The Cabal. It seemingly can't be the ones who were in the broken apart piece given Doom's circle, but maybe T'Challa (which would tie nicely to being a foil for Doom given their past interactions)

    Now, this might be a stretch (ha, future pun!), but maybe Reed is still himself, but because he lost a bit of his hand in the first issue that is enough of Reed in Doom's new world to make him be successful as Battleworld god? That way it doesn't completely take away from Doom being Doom, but still allows Reed to try and really put things right.
    I thought that the only people who were lost from the rafts were sue and the kids (though I do think that doom might of rescued them from the space between, because he's just that much better than Richaaaaaards)

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    ManetherenWolfManetherenWolf Registered User regular
    Spoit wrote: »
    TexiKen wrote: »
    Regarding the new world and people from the old
    I would think someone from the Ark is still themselves to compliment The Cabal. It seemingly can't be the ones who were in the broken apart piece given Doom's circle, but maybe T'Challa (which would tie nicely to being a foil for Doom given their past interactions)

    Now, this might be a stretch (ha, future pun!), but maybe Reed is still himself, but because he lost a bit of his hand in the first issue that is enough of Reed in Doom's new world to make him be successful as Battleworld god? That way it doesn't completely take away from Doom being Doom, but still allows Reed to try and really put things right.
    I thought that the only people who were lost from the rafts were sue and the kids (though I do think that doom might of rescued them from the space between, because he's just that much better than Richaaaaaards)
    I believe Johnny and Ben were on the lost section too. Also Reed's Fingertips, lol.

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    Golden YakGolden Yak Burnished Bovine The sunny beaches of CanadaRegistered User regular
    Spoit wrote: »
    TexiKen wrote: »
    Regarding the new world and people from the old
    I would think someone from the Ark is still themselves to compliment The Cabal. It seemingly can't be the ones who were in the broken apart piece given Doom's circle, but maybe T'Challa (which would tie nicely to being a foil for Doom given their past interactions)

    Now, this might be a stretch (ha, future pun!), but maybe Reed is still himself, but because he lost a bit of his hand in the first issue that is enough of Reed in Doom's new world to make him be successful as Battleworld god? That way it doesn't completely take away from Doom being Doom, but still allows Reed to try and really put things right.
    I thought that the only people who were lost from the rafts were sue and the kids (though I do think that doom might of rescued them from the space between, because he's just that much better than Richaaaaaards)
    I believe Johnny and Ben were on the lost section too. Also Reed's Fingertips, lol.

    Bleh, you're right. Just went back to re-read and noticed that.
    Looks like Reed, T'challa, Captain Marvel, Thor, and Star Lord were on Reed's ark. Susan, Ben, Johnny, and the kids were lost.

    We know where the kids are, and I suspect Johnny's inside the Galactus we saw guarding Doomstadt (just cuz he's on fire for some reason). No sign of Ben - Doom only knows what Doom's done with him, probably something unsavory.

    I bet the others made it through just like the Cabal did, and are probably hiding out somewhere already working against Doom.

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    nightmarennynightmarenny Registered User regular
    I still want some sort of fourth-wall breaking comic where somebody that remembers the original Secret Wars/Doom World is freaking out about being the only one that seems to remember this happened before.
    You've made this joke before and I don't really get it.

    Did Secret Wars get removed from continuity? Because I thought they referenced it in Avengers.

    Also by my understanding of Secret Wars it doesn't sound similar enough that anybody would mention it?

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    Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    I still want some sort of fourth-wall breaking comic where somebody that remembers the original Secret Wars/Doom World is freaking out about being the only one that seems to remember this happened before.
    You've made this joke before and I don't really get it.

    Did Secret Wars get removed from continuity? Because I thought they referenced it in Avengers.

    Also by my understanding of Secret Wars it doesn't sound similar enough that anybody would mention it?

    I think he's referring to the fact that in the previous 616 continuity, Battleworld was a thing that the Beyonder made during Secret Wars. Obviously, since all continuity is basically forgotten in the new Secret Wars, nobody would remember this, even though they're on a new Battleworld scenerio.

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    jkylefultonjkylefulton Squid...or Kid? NNID - majpellRegistered User regular
    I still want some sort of fourth-wall breaking comic where somebody that remembers the original Secret Wars/Doom World is freaking out about being the only one that seems to remember this happened before.

    Marvel doesn't need a Psycho Pirate moment. Keep Grant Morrison nonsense contained to DC, please.

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    AutomaticzenAutomaticzen Registered User regular
    The full Battleworld map list a separate area right next to 1610 Manhattan as the 616 Manhattan. Not this interwoven shit. Its probably some third Earth I think.

    I think that's the way it was. Then both areas were merged, which is why both sides are working together to fix the merge before the Thors and Doom notice.

    Needed an extra page to explain that though.

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    Bobby DerieBobby Derie Registered User regular
    I still want some sort of fourth-wall breaking comic where somebody that remembers the original Secret Wars/Doom World is freaking out about being the only one that seems to remember this happened before.
    You've made this joke before and I don't really get it.
    Have I? Damn, I am getting old.

    The thing is that a lot of the background for the events leading up to Secret Wars/Battleworld are patently based on the original Secret Wars/Doomworld/Beyonder storylines back in the 80s and 90s, to the point that we're seriously revisiting major plot points - which is fine. Comics are a generational thing, and the people writing comics for Marvel now are bringing back or referencing some of the things they loved about comics back when they were kids. It's the same thing with Geoff Johns' run on the Lantern titles, bringing back some obscure continuity and putting it in the limelight. That's not a criticism, it's an observation.

    But it would be funny - to me - to see a character that went through the first Secret Wars and remembers Doom World, like Ben Grimm, to see this happening and be like "Oh gods, not again." Hell, they could probably do a four-issue miniseries, each one with a different character, poking fun at when Marvel did this sort of thing with Heroes Reborn and House of M...they won't. Because even though Marvel is better than DC in most respects these days, they still don't have the wherewithal to take the piss out of themselves that thoroughly. At least, not unless they give Warren Ellis a series and say "Here, none of this is canon so go nuts" and you get Nextwave. But that's a rarity.

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    NightslyrNightslyr Registered User regular
    Along those lines, I'd love to see Marvel break Circuit Breaker out of storage as a fun little nod.

    For those who don't know, in the mid 1980's, Marvel's Transformers comics were briefly in the larger Marvel continuity. In fact, symbiote costume Spiderman had a guest role in the original 4 issue miniseries. Circuit Breaker was a Transformers comic character, a young woman engineer who worked for oil tycoon G.B. Blackrock. She became permanently disabled due to being caught in the collateral damage stemming from a typical Autobot/Decepticon skirmish. She vowed revenge against all Transformers and created special circuit infused bandages that not only allowed her to walk, but to fly and shoot some kind of energy beams.

    Where am I going with all of this? Circuit Breaker was actually introduced in the original Secret Wars (that briefly shared continuity in action) and Marvel still owns the name.

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    Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    I figured she should have been the villain in Avengers A.I. if it hadn't gotten canceled.

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    Golden YakGolden Yak Burnished Bovine The sunny beaches of CanadaRegistered User regular
    Damn, I remember Circuit Breaker. And all the Neon Knights or whoever they were - Thunderpunch, Dynamo, and Rapture. From just one issue too, the one issue of Transformers I bought, #75 where Unicron attacks. They were all so weird and non-Transformer-y that they all stuck in the mind.

    That sequence where Circuit Breaker's boss convinces her to fight back was brutal.

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    Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    It'd be super easy to slot her in to modern Marvel too

    Instead of working for G.B. BLackrock, she could have been a Stark employee.

    Obviously she would have been injured in an Ultron attack instead of a Decepticon raid.

    And the she pops back onto the scene after learning about an entire team of robot Avengers lead by the man who accidentally created Ultron.

    It's so perfect, in my mind's eye!

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