Jason had a clear arc. He had varied interactions with a large cast. He had moments of joy and anguish and rage. He's panicky at first, very unsure, but steadily becomes a monstrous fuck who delights in slaughter. And then realizes it. Ajay goes okay and then wipes out platoons with no rhyme or reason and doesn't change a single bit.
This isn't rose tinted glasses, this is what happened.
But it wasn't a very good arc. Or an interesting one.
So, I suppose FC3 could be considered superior in that regard. However, the narrative in either game is half baked at best.
Most of the time in Far Cry 3 I wanted the game to stop shoving its poor attempts at story telling in my face and let me have fun. Which is why I enjoy Far Cry 4 more. It knows its strengths and plays to them. Plot and character development are not among them.
I am in no way saying Far Cry 3 was a great story. But it had a character who actually reacted to what was going on around him, even if what was going on was fucking crazy. He became a crazy badass and his friends and the people around him commented on that transition.
Im not saying I want the same thing, Its totally cool if you have a character who is a crazy badass to begin with, but explain that, create context. Being john-q-nobody and having to deliver your mothers ashes is not context, its barely even plot. We barely learn how much his mother meant to him, what his life was like to make him this way.
And this is stuff that could be explained in two sentences. So its not like im asking for Dickens novels. Im just sick of games wasting my time with dialogue. Id rather have zero dialogue than nonsense stuff that undermines the gameplay or narrative and just wastes my time between missions because the devs feel like they have to have a certain quota of dialogue.
Some games have 5 minutes of story spread over 10 hours and theyre still more involving, have more context and drive, than something like Far Cry 4. Its definitely not just Far Cry 4, its more a kind of straw that broke the camels back with me
I am in no way saying Far Cry 3 was a great story. But it had a character who actually reacted to what was going on around him, even if what was going on was fucking crazy. He became a crazy badass and his friends and the people around him commented on that transition.
Im not saying I want the same thing, Its totally cool if you have a character who is a crazy badass to begin with, but explain that, create context. Being john-q-nobody and having to deliver your mothers ashes is not context, its barely even plot. We barely learn how much his mother meant to him, what his life was like to make him this way.
And this is stuff that could be explained in two sentences. So its not like im asking for Dickens novels. Im just sick of games wasting my time with dialogue. Id rather have zero dialogue than nonsense stuff that undermines the gameplay or narrative and just wastes my time between missions because the devs feel like they have to have a certain quota of dialogue.
Some games have 5 minutes of story spread over 10 hours and theyre still more involving, have more context and drive, than something like Far Cry 4. Its definitely not just Far Cry 4, its more a kind of straw that broke the camels back with me
There are some hints in some of the journals combined with other information.
One of the journals mentions that Ajay's parents had preliminary plans for training him to be the future leader of the Golden Path. While his dad obviously never got to see this through, I inferred that his mother gave him some training since she knew she had enemies and that Ajay would be exposed to danger when he went back. His innate ability to sneak and stab people in addition to firearms handling fits with the spywork his mother did.
But they really missed an opportunity to spell it out and take advantage of the setting and culture. Kyrat is based on Nepal and Nepalese Ghurkas have a very rich history. Admittedly it usually involves stabbing and cutting people but that's why apparently some Taliban view Ghurkas as demons disgused as humans which played a role in the British putting Prince Harry with a unit of them when he insisted on going to Afghanistan.
Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
The lack of any sort of worthwhile story at all kinda killed my interest to finish off FC4. The story of FC3 fit the setting just fine, and there were serious motivations for Jason to do what he did, as well as an actual change in the character.
With FC4, I'm playing an opinionless nobody working for a douchebag and a jerkbag to kill an asshole, and there's hardly even a trace of the oddball entertaining characters like in FC3. Pagan Min is very nearly it, and you just don't interact with the guy enough for it to matter. I'm more motivated to shoot down hell-eagles than I am to go fight a murderous tyrant. That's how flat the story is.
I would've much rathered a story more like FC3 over the blandfest that we got for FC4, whatever the naysayers want to pick out of there to gripe about the most. At least FC3 had some actual thought and design go into the story, even if it had execution problems.
I finished the game last night and I have no fucking idea why anyone did anything they did.
I'm rescuing some guy from a compound. De Pleur mission. I don't know why, or even really who it is. De Pleur could be the name of the guy I'm rescuing, the person whose compound it is, or a fancy bottle of wine. I've no clue.
The plot is terribly, terribly told in this game. In FC3 it wasn't the best, but it was coherent, it gave me a vague reason for being there and I liked the slight 'Lost' feel the game had to it. Here I just seem to randomly accept tasks from complete strangers.
I've been having a good time with it since my last moan though, the gameplay is pretty fun. That said this mission is utter bullshit and I hope there aren't too many like it. I've had to turn it off after being seen one too many time. I'm a fan of having stealth as an option, not forced upon me.
De Pleur is literally the 4th character introduced.
I've met mad bad guy, who was awesome but I haven't really heard from much since. The guy who was tortured and kidnapped when I first got there. Lady who wants to win at any cost, man who wants to win but not at any cost, crazy preacher dude obsessed with guns who made me do a rubbish mission in the snow, two stupid people in a cabin who drugged me so I woke up in an arena, lady who runs the arena and has lots of topless friends, coop guy, young girl person who seemed important but hasn't really featured too much since. Oh and the monkey at the start.
I guess I forgot a lot of the 'plot' because nothing about it grabbed me, so as soon as I could I just spent all my time running around liberating outposts and freeing watch towers. Now I've done all the ones I can until I progress further in the campaign so I've gone back to it.
One thing I really missed from Far Cry 3 were those late game moments when the enemies were terrified of you. It was all little dialogue shouts, but there was a sense that these fuckers were spending their time huddled in their outposts telling stories around the fire about how Jason came into the outpost two hills over and killed everyone without alerting a soul.
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DietarySupplementStill not approved by the FDADublin, OHRegistered Userregular
It's not even the whole "where'd you learn to shoot thing." I can get over that.
My thing is, one minute I'm helping the golden path, then all of a sudden I'm letting two dudes shoot me up with strange drugs and oops now I'm naked wait is this chick helping me or hurting me?
Up to that point I never heard Noor's name mentioned, not once.
I mean seriously I got dizzy there after about 2 hours in. They just throw plot at you, hoping it sticks.
seriously in Far Cry 4 someone literally tosses you a gun and says SHOOT and you do, while in a car moving at speeds and after having just seen like 3 people murdered and a guy being tortured, then explosions and HEY GUY.
Anyone who says its the same as Far Cry 3 needs to go back and play Far Cry 3.
And it is never mentioned how you are not just good at shooting/killing (which could be explained away by being innate/natural or magical like FC3) but have zero fucking qualms murdering people. Even serial killers are shocked or shaken up by their first murder. Which leads me to have to fill in the gaps and assume hes ex military, something which if the devs didnt think "good writing" meant "lots of pointless talking" wouldve been mentioned.
A lot of game writers write these massive chunks of dialogue, often monologuing or pontificating nonsense which has nothing to do with character or context, and run at complete odds to gameplay, often undermining it where they dont just ignore it. Most feels like showing off and thumb-twidling. Far Cry 4 was the worst for it.
I have no trouble with that, though. I'm in it for the lulz and bangs.
In the back story Ajay did serve in the US military and was deployed to Iraq. Just as an infantryman, not some crazy ass SF mofo though.
But at least it allows plausibility that yes, he is able to hold and operate a firearm. Although it doesn't account for feats of superhuman endurance and strength, but it is a god damn videogame. I gave it a pass in FC3 where we don't even have a military background - it is a videogame. I don't have time for the game to make Jason arbitrarily suck at combat for the first half of the game because he is 'scared' or 'inexperienced'. Sorry, but I have things to do. Something has to be sacrificed so I can have fun. And if Jason/Ajay shows up as Mr. Murder-Machine day one then so be it, if it means I start having fun right away.
Which I totally did, you guys. Like holy shit. Especially with the more free-form upgrade structure in 4. Was not expecting that going into the game. What a pleasant surprise that was! I could get all my favorite knife tricks when I wanted. Who needs health and herb upgrades anyways?
And frankly, I didn't mind that Ajay had no development. I just wish they would make DLC where the secret ending is actually playable already. The trope that 'everything and everyone is just as bad as the bad guy' is so overplayed and overdone that it makes me want to vomit.
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Big DookieSmells great!Houston, TXRegistered Userregular
Wait, what back story shows that Ajay has a military background? Because that would make a pretty big difference in people's criticism of him. I don't remember seeing anything like that in the game though.
Wait, what back story shows that Ajay has a military background? Because that would make a pretty big difference in people's criticism of him. I don't remember seeing anything like that in the game though.
It was on the wiki but isn't anymore. Apparently it was made up by Tumblrinas. Thanks, wiki! Can only find people referencing the deal he made to get out of prison and it involved military service on Tumblr and reddit pages which cite the wiki as evidence, although it has been edited since then.
I guess it doesn't change my feelings at all. Story still underwhelms, but I dgaf about the protagonist being too good at killing because forcing the player to be bad at the game to represent some growth is a terrible idea from a gameplay perspective.
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Big DookieSmells great!Houston, TXRegistered Userregular
Ahh okay.
Maybe it's just easier to assume he has formal training since we don't really know much about his background otherwise. It does make his actions a little easier to swallow.
He's got the touch. He's got the power. He needs a hero. It's not faith, it's genetics. He's the chose one. He's got the eye of the tiger. It's the power of friendship.
I can see why people would hate them. For several missions they keep ambush-drugging Ajay and dumping him in the woods. Those missions are crazy fun, but can be frustrating to watch the protagonist keep getting duped via cutscene by a pair of clowns. It is actually worse than Vaas constantly getting the drop on Jason in cutscenes for 70% of F3. And that shit was infuriating.
But by the end of those missions, Ajay is just like "lets do this" and it is hilarious.
I didn't mind it because in a way, like I said, they are in on the joke. They know just as well as the player does that Ajay is ostensibly invincible. Ajay is never in any real danger because he is an unstoppable man killing monster.
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That_GuyI don't wanna be that guyRegistered Userregular
What a lot of people are probably not taking into account is their own agency. The Y&R missions were totally optional. If players didn't want to get drugged up and dropped in the woods, they should have stopped taking the missions after the first one.
One of these days NPCs and PCs will have meaningful interaction beyond clunky cutscenes or dialog trees.
I can see why people would hate them. For several missions they keep ambush-drugging Ajay and dumping him in the woods. Those missions are crazy fun, but can be frustrating to watch the protagonist keep getting duped via cutscene by a pair of clowns. It is actually worse than Vaas constantly getting the drop on Jason in cutscenes for 70% of F3. And that shit was infuriating.
But by the end of those missions, Ajay is just like "lets do this" and it is hilarious.
I didn't mind it because in a way, like I said, they are in on the joke. They know just as well as the player does that Ajay is ostensibly invincible. Ajay is never in any real danger because he is an unstoppable man killing monster.
The first time is bad, but every time after that you choose to go back to them. What did you expect?
I mean, did Vaas never tell you the definition of insanity?
I can see why people would hate them. For several missions they keep ambush-drugging Ajay and dumping him in the woods. Those missions are crazy fun, but can be frustrating to watch the protagonist keep getting duped via cutscene by a pair of clowns. It is actually worse than Vaas constantly getting the drop on Jason in cutscenes for 70% of F3. And that shit was infuriating.
But by the end of those missions, Ajay is just like "lets do this" and it is hilarious.
I didn't mind it because in a way, like I said, they are in on the joke. They know just as well as the player does that Ajay is ostensibly invincible. Ajay is never in any real danger because he is an unstoppable man killing monster.
The first time is bad, but every time after that you choose to go back to them. What did you expect?
I mean, did Vaas never tell you the definition of insanity?
Well, the first time was to tell them to get the fuck out of my parents' house.
The second time was to tell them that "get the fuck out of my parents' house" does not mean "start living out of a tent 30 feet away."
The third time was to hopefully get revenge on them for what they did the first two times.
Okay, the fourth one was on me.
GNU Terry Pratchett
PSN: Wstfgl | GamerTag: An Evil Plan | Battle.net: FallenIdle#1970
Hit me up on BoardGameArena! User: Loaded D1
Finished this game over the weekend. Maybe its because I played Dying Light recently which was another open world game with a lot of stuff to do, but Far Cry 4 just felt really repetitious especially towards the end of the game and I really grew tired of the wildlife constantly attacking you with the limited movement of Ajay and the distances you had to cover (and fuck taking cars because then you'd have to listen to the worst dj in the fucking world and his horrible show).
The choices were all arbitrary and the plot what little was there was extremely minimal.
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
Yeah, the "Everything suuuucccckkkkss" plots that game writers have a huge hard-on for now a days is awful.
I get it, its get good to go against the trope where typically the player character is literally christ incarnate and can solve anything with a gun and a grenade (change weapons as needed for flavor).
But jesus, making it so your choices in the game have actually no impact is ridiculous.
One thing that didn't make sense was that Kyratt was fucked, I beg to disagree, I murdered thousands of people blew up choppers and trucks and yet there were always plenty of those things around! Hell I killed more wildlife than agent fucking orange and yet there was always more wildlife to kill!
One thing I didn't understand was the fortresses, what was supposed to be harder about them when the person running was still alive? They seemed pretty easy.
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
Finished this game over the weekend. Maybe its because I played Dying Light recently which was another open world game with a lot of stuff to do, but Far Cry 4 just felt really repetitious especially towards the end of the game and I really grew tired of the wildlife constantly attacking you with the limited movement of Ajay and the distances you had to cover (and fuck taking cars because then you'd have to listen to the worst dj in the fucking world and his horrible show).
The choices were all arbitrary and the plot what little was there was extremely minimal.
You can hold left on the d-pad (on xbone) to turn off the DJ in a vehicle (or to turn it back on).
You have to do it every time you get back in a vehicle, but at least you can do it.
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HardtargetThere Are Four LightsVancouverRegistered Userregular
amazon gold box today, 30 bones for all platforms (including digital download code for pc)
I saw someone post inthe Dying Ligh thread how their 290x was struggling with that game and they put in a 970 and it ran better for that and FC4. But I guess its a case of YMMV. Either way it'll be better than what I'm rolling now and it'd stop me from double dipping on games with the PS4.
But it wasn't a very good arc. Or an interesting one.
So, I suppose FC3 could be considered superior in that regard. However, the narrative in either game is half baked at best.
Most of the time in Far Cry 3 I wanted the game to stop shoving its poor attempts at story telling in my face and let me have fun. Which is why I enjoy Far Cry 4 more. It knows its strengths and plays to them. Plot and character development are not among them.
But again, opinions.
Jason's character development is annoying because he is an asshole.
But showing the protagonist descending into slaughterlust and assholery is the entire point of FC3's story.
If you just look at Jason Brody as a character, divorced from context, sure, I wouldn't like it either. But when you place it in its proper context and contemplate the broader picture, I think it's pretty much genius.
These aren't rose-tinted glasses as I completed Far Cry 3 only a couple of months before Far Cry 4 came out. I more or less played FC3 and FC4 back to back.
I saw someone post inthe Dying Ligh thread how their 290x was struggling with that game and they put in a 970 and it ran better for that and FC4. But I guess its a case of YMMV. Either way it'll be better than what I'm rolling now and it'd stop me from double dipping on games with the PS4.
They should be getting 60fps at 1080p, maybe they're running at 1444 or 4k? Either way, the biggest bottleneck in Dying Light is the Distance slider. You can cut that thing almost to zero with almost no noticeable pop-in (it doesn't effect where the zombie show up, just attachment doodads like signs) and huge performance gains.
Classy, I hear the card sucks big time and you'll only get about 20fps on Far Cry 4 at 720p.
You should just give it to me.
The 6950 is all yours mate! @minor incident sent it to me last year and I think it would be great if it went to another forumer! Bonus points since you're in the UK and nearby!
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But, I guess opinions and all that :P
This isn't rose tinted glasses, this is what happened.
Shitty Tumblr:lighthouse1138.tumblr.com
But it wasn't a very good arc. Or an interesting one.
So, I suppose FC3 could be considered superior in that regard. However, the narrative in either game is half baked at best.
Most of the time in Far Cry 3 I wanted the game to stop shoving its poor attempts at story telling in my face and let me have fun. Which is why I enjoy Far Cry 4 more. It knows its strengths and plays to them. Plot and character development are not among them.
But again, opinions.
Im not saying I want the same thing, Its totally cool if you have a character who is a crazy badass to begin with, but explain that, create context. Being john-q-nobody and having to deliver your mothers ashes is not context, its barely even plot. We barely learn how much his mother meant to him, what his life was like to make him this way.
And this is stuff that could be explained in two sentences. So its not like im asking for Dickens novels. Im just sick of games wasting my time with dialogue. Id rather have zero dialogue than nonsense stuff that undermines the gameplay or narrative and just wastes my time between missions because the devs feel like they have to have a certain quota of dialogue.
Some games have 5 minutes of story spread over 10 hours and theyre still more involving, have more context and drive, than something like Far Cry 4. Its definitely not just Far Cry 4, its more a kind of straw that broke the camels back with me
There are some hints in some of the journals combined with other information.
But they really missed an opportunity to spell it out and take advantage of the setting and culture. Kyrat is based on Nepal and Nepalese Ghurkas have a very rich history. Admittedly it usually involves stabbing and cutting people but that's why apparently some Taliban view Ghurkas as demons disgused as humans which played a role in the British putting Prince Harry with a unit of them when he insisted on going to Afghanistan.
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3DS: 3454-0268-5595 Battle.net: SteelAngel#1772
With FC4, I'm playing an opinionless nobody working for a douchebag and a jerkbag to kill an asshole, and there's hardly even a trace of the oddball entertaining characters like in FC3. Pagan Min is very nearly it, and you just don't interact with the guy enough for it to matter. I'm more motivated to shoot down hell-eagles than I am to go fight a murderous tyrant. That's how flat the story is.
I would've much rathered a story more like FC3 over the blandfest that we got for FC4, whatever the naysayers want to pick out of there to gripe about the most. At least FC3 had some actual thought and design go into the story, even if it had execution problems.
I've met mad bad guy, who was awesome but I haven't really heard from much since. The guy who was tortured and kidnapped when I first got there. Lady who wants to win at any cost, man who wants to win but not at any cost, crazy preacher dude obsessed with guns who made me do a rubbish mission in the snow, two stupid people in a cabin who drugged me so I woke up in an arena, lady who runs the arena and has lots of topless friends, coop guy, young girl person who seemed important but hasn't really featured too much since. Oh and the monkey at the start.
I guess I forgot a lot of the 'plot' because nothing about it grabbed me, so as soon as I could I just spent all my time running around liberating outposts and freeing watch towers. Now I've done all the ones I can until I progress further in the campaign so I've gone back to it.
PSN: SirGrinchX
Oculus Rift: Sir_Grinch
My thing is, one minute I'm helping the golden path, then all of a sudden I'm letting two dudes shoot me up with strange drugs and oops now I'm naked wait is this chick helping me or hurting me?
Up to that point I never heard Noor's name mentioned, not once.
I mean seriously I got dizzy there after about 2 hours in. They just throw plot at you, hoping it sticks.
Game was fun, 8/10 would play again.
I have no trouble with that, though. I'm in it for the lulz and bangs.
But at least it allows plausibility that yes, he is able to hold and operate a firearm. Although it doesn't account for feats of superhuman endurance and strength, but it is a god damn videogame. I gave it a pass in FC3 where we don't even have a military background - it is a videogame. I don't have time for the game to make Jason arbitrarily suck at combat for the first half of the game because he is 'scared' or 'inexperienced'. Sorry, but I have things to do. Something has to be sacrificed so I can have fun. And if Jason/Ajay shows up as Mr. Murder-Machine day one then so be it, if it means I start having fun right away.
Which I totally did, you guys. Like holy shit. Especially with the more free-form upgrade structure in 4. Was not expecting that going into the game. What a pleasant surprise that was! I could get all my favorite knife tricks when I wanted. Who needs health and herb upgrades anyways?
And frankly, I didn't mind that Ajay had no development. I just wish they would make DLC where the secret ending is actually playable already. The trope that 'everything and everyone is just as bad as the bad guy' is so overplayed and overdone that it makes me want to vomit.
Oculus: TheBigDookie | XBL: Dook | NNID: BigDookie
It was on the wiki but isn't anymore. Apparently it was made up by Tumblrinas. Thanks, wiki! Can only find people referencing the deal he made to get out of prison and it involved military service on Tumblr and reddit pages which cite the wiki as evidence, although it has been edited since then.
I guess it doesn't change my feelings at all. Story still underwhelms, but I dgaf about the protagonist being too good at killing because forcing the player to be bad at the game to represent some growth is a terrible idea from a gameplay perspective.
Maybe it's just easier to assume he has formal training since we don't really know much about his background otherwise. It does make his actions a little easier to swallow.
Oculus: TheBigDookie | XBL: Dook | NNID: BigDookie
Oculus: TheBigDookie | XBL: Dook | NNID: BigDookie
I think it was because they were in on the joke.
I can see why people would hate them. For several missions they keep ambush-drugging Ajay and dumping him in the woods. Those missions are crazy fun, but can be frustrating to watch the protagonist keep getting duped via cutscene by a pair of clowns. It is actually worse than Vaas constantly getting the drop on Jason in cutscenes for 70% of F3. And that shit was infuriating.
But by the end of those missions, Ajay is just like "lets do this" and it is hilarious.
I didn't mind it because in a way, like I said, they are in on the joke. They know just as well as the player does that Ajay is ostensibly invincible. Ajay is never in any real danger because he is an unstoppable man killing monster.
One of these days NPCs and PCs will have meaningful interaction beyond clunky cutscenes or dialog trees.
The first time is bad, but every time after that you choose to go back to them. What did you expect?
I mean, did Vaas never tell you the definition of insanity?
Well, the first time was to tell them to get the fuck out of my parents' house.
The second time was to tell them that "get the fuck out of my parents' house" does not mean "start living out of a tent 30 feet away."
The third time was to hopefully get revenge on them for what they did the first two times.
Okay, the fourth one was on me.
PSN: Wstfgl | GamerTag: An Evil Plan | Battle.net: FallenIdle#1970
Hit me up on BoardGameArena! User: Loaded D1
The choices were all arbitrary and the plot what little was there was extremely minimal.
pleasepaypreacher.net
I get it, its get good to go against the trope where typically the player character is literally christ incarnate and can solve anything with a gun and a grenade (change weapons as needed for flavor).
But jesus, making it so your choices in the game have actually no impact is ridiculous.
One thing I didn't understand was the fortresses, what was supposed to be harder about them when the person running was still alive? They seemed pretty easy.
pleasepaypreacher.net
You can hold left on the d-pad (on xbone) to turn off the DJ in a vehicle (or to turn it back on).
You have to do it every time you get back in a vehicle, but at least you can do it.
it runs perfectly on my 7950 3GB
Penny Arcade Rockstar Social Club / This is why I despise cyclists
I've been reading NVIDIA is the way to go but the price of the 290 was ttoo good to pass up.
I've played a fair bit of it on that ps4 but it's definitely something I'd rather experience fully on PC.
Penny Arcade Rockstar Social Club / This is why I despise cyclists
Jason's character development is annoying because he is an asshole.
But showing the protagonist descending into slaughterlust and assholery is the entire point of FC3's story.
If you just look at Jason Brody as a character, divorced from context, sure, I wouldn't like it either. But when you place it in its proper context and contemplate the broader picture, I think it's pretty much genius.
These aren't rose-tinted glasses as I completed Far Cry 3 only a couple of months before Far Cry 4 came out. I more or less played FC3 and FC4 back to back.
Penny Arcade Rockstar Social Club / This is why I despise cyclists
You should just give it to me.
PSN: SirGrinchX
Oculus Rift: Sir_Grinch
The 6950 is all yours mate! @minor incident sent it to me last year and I think it would be great if it went to another forumer! Bonus points since you're in the UK and nearby!