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Cuba-American Relations. Obama Visits Cuba!

245678

Posts

  • PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    edited December 2014
    Buttcleft wrote: »
    Hey guys, Lets keep this on the Cuba/America thing.

    I think theres a general politics thread somewhere for the GOP/Hispanic community relations.

    I think a large part of the analysis of Obama's move has to involve a discussion of the gulf between the Hispanic community and the Cuban one. Obama has made the call that opening Cuba and easing deportation will be popular in the Hispanic community, reaffirming ties between the Democrats and Hispanics.

    The GOP has always maintained that the "legal" Hispanic community is naturally conservative, hate communism and is firmly opposed to all illegal immigration. The polls don't support this, but that line of attack always comes up when Democrats attempt moves like these.

    Phillishere on
  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    I'm just happy that one of our last vestiges of dumb cold war policy might be finally ending. Thank god for that.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    Buttcleft wrote: »
    Hey guys, Lets keep this on the Cuba/America thing.

    I think theres a general politics thread somewhere for the GOP/Hispanic community relations.

    The thing is that Cuba-America relations is intertwined with all these political issues, that you can't look at it without touching on them. That's why this is such a big move politically - you just had Jeb throwing embargo red meat to the Cuban emigres as part of the lead up to his announcement, and now Obama has made that red meat have some very real political costs.

    XBL: Nox Aeternum / PSN: NoxAeternum / NN:NoxAeternum / Steam: noxaeternum
  • ButtcleftButtcleft Registered User regular
    Buttcleft wrote: »
    Hey guys, Lets keep this on the Cuba/America thing.

    I think theres a general politics thread somewhere for the GOP/Hispanic community relations.

    The thing is that Cuba-America relations is intertwined with all these political issues, that you can't look at it without touching on them. That's why this is such a big move politically - you just had Jeb throwing embargo red meat to the Cuban emigres as part of the lead up to his announcement, and now Obama has made that red meat have some very real political costs.

    I know, but we were moving into Cuban-GOP relations and I don't want the thread to get closed D:

  • quovadis13quovadis13 Registered User regular
    Neat news today! Gonna mix up a Ciba Libre for dinner!

  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    XBL: Nox Aeternum / PSN: NoxAeternum / NN:NoxAeternum / Steam: noxaeternum
  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    XBL: Nox Aeternum / PSN: NoxAeternum / NN:NoxAeternum / Steam: noxaeternum
  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Wow wolf blitzer actually asked a relevant question of Cruz? QUICK LITTLE BOY WHAT DAY IS TODAY?

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular

    Ted, you're already in a hole from Reid punking your ass. You going to keep digging?

    XBL: Nox Aeternum / PSN: NoxAeternum / NN:NoxAeternum / Steam: noxaeternum
  • TraceTrace GNU Terry Pratchett; GNU Gus; GNU Carrie Fisher; GNU Adam We Registered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    Wow wolf blitzer actually asked a relevant question of Cruz? QUICK LITTLE BOY WHAT DAY IS TODAY?

    The most magical day of the year.

  • Just_Bri_ThanksJust_Bri_Thanks Seething with rage from a handbasket.Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited December 2014
    Edit: Nope, there it is.

    Just_Bri_Thanks on
    ...and when you are done with that; take a folding
    chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
  • ButtcleftButtcleft Registered User regular

    Please tell me this is a thing that actually happened.

  • TraceTrace GNU Terry Pratchett; GNU Gus; GNU Carrie Fisher; GNU Adam We Registered User regular
    And Wolf's beard grew two whole sizes that day.

  • QuidQuid Definitely not a banana Registered User regular

    So yeah this is basically my personal reasoning.

    If the U.S. government embargoed every self claiming communist (never mind how difficult that is to define) country out there then while I would disagree it'd at the very least be consistent.

    But currently we do business with various self proclaimed communist countries. Cutting out Cuba serves no good purpose.

  • AManFromEarthAManFromEarth Let's get to twerk! The King in the SwampRegistered User regular
    We normalized relations with Soviets and the Vietnamese.

    If we normalized relations with Cuba in ten years they'd be eating Big Macs, driving fords, and applying for statehood.

    It's bullshit and everyone who supports the embargo is wrong.

    Lh96QHG.png
  • ButtcleftButtcleft Registered User regular
    edited December 2014
    We normalized relations with Soviets and the Vietnamese.

    If we normalized relations with Cuba in ten years they'd be eating Big Macs, driving fords, and applying for statehood.

    It's bullshit and everyone who supports the embargo is wrong.

    Pretty much, only people I've heard against renewed relations cant give a valid reason besides variants of "Communism! Evilbad!"

    Buttcleft on
  • AManFromEarthAManFromEarth Let's get to twerk! The King in the SwampRegistered User regular
    For gods sake we let the Russians fly a spy plane over the continental us this month but we can't trade with Cuba?

    Rhetorical nonsense.

    Lh96QHG.png
  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    Thank god. I figured we'd have to wait for Castro to die (so, you know, not long) and then just hope that whoever was President at the time wasn't an idiot. Nice to know we'll finally stop being idiots sooner than later.

  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    Wow wolf blitzer actually asked a relevant question of Cruz? QUICK LITTLE BOY WHAT DAY IS TODAY?

    It's a Hanukkah Miracle!

  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    We normalized relations with Soviets and the Vietnamese.

    If we normalized relations with Cuba in ten years they'd be eating Big Macs, driving fords, and applying for statehood.

    It's bullshit and everyone who supports the embargo is wrong.

    Don't be ridiculous.

    They'll be driving Chevy's.

  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    Buttcleft wrote: »
    Buttcleft wrote: »
    Hey guys, Lets keep this on the Cuba/America thing.

    I think theres a general politics thread somewhere for the GOP/Hispanic community relations.

    The thing is that Cuba-America relations is intertwined with all these political issues, that you can't look at it without touching on them. That's why this is such a big move politically - you just had Jeb throwing embargo red meat to the Cuban emigres as part of the lead up to his announcement, and now Obama has made that red meat have some very real political costs.

    I know, but we were moving into Cuban-GOP relations and I don't want the thread to get closed D:

    It also doesn't make any sense since a majority of Cuban-Americans below the age of 65 favor normalizing relations and ending the embargo. Charlie Crist was the first gubernatorial candidate to publicly back ending the embargo and he still won among Cubans while losing generally (for a whole host of reasons) just last month. This ain't the 70's. It is not a political liability for anybody except the Little Havana Chamber of Commerce.

  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    I'm on fire.

  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    So do they just call them sandwichs down there?

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
  • Kipling217Kipling217 Registered User regular
    If somebody bitches about this point out that the Vietnamese sent 60 000 US soldiers home in body bags, is still communist, the US has a large vietnam exile population and... the US ended the embargo with them 20 years ago.

    The sky was full of stars, every star an exploding ship. One of ours.
  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Most people I've talk to is like "Woo cuba!"

    Also we could probably literally build a bridge to Cuba, we should get on that.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
  • Just_Bri_ThanksJust_Bri_Thanks Seething with rage from a handbasket.Registered User, ClubPA regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    Most people I've talk to is like "Woo cuba!"

    Also we could probably literally build a bridge to Cuba, we should get on that.

    I wouldn't risk it. I mean, there are a lot of hurricanes around here, and while we have bridges out to the Florida keys if those get too storm damaged to use nothing of value is lost.

    ...and when you are done with that; take a folding
    chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    Most people I've talk to is like "Woo cuba!"

    Also we could probably literally build a bridge to Cuba, we should get on that.

    I wouldn't risk it. I mean, there are a lot of hurricanes around here, and while we have bridges out to the Florida keys if those get too storm damaged to use nothing of value is lost.

    Look I'm going for metaphors here ok!

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
  • NSDFRandNSDFRand FloridaRegistered User regular

    Ignoring Ted Cruz looking like an ignoramus, our relationship with China is not comparable to our relationship with Cuba, especially since we have had since at least the Nixon administration to get comfortable with each other (Us and China).

    With Cuba we have the whole US supporting the Batista dictatorship, Operation Zapata, the Missile Crisis, attempted assassinations, nationalization of US held assets and property, and the ongoing embargo to consider when talking about Cuba-US relations, while with China we are more intertwined economically and have a healthier relationship with a China that is becoming more "capitalist" compared to decades ago.

  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    I see a lot of reasons cuba wouldn't like us, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't in 2014 have an actual relationship with a country off our own coast.

    I mean if we can deal with the freaking canucks we can deal with Castro.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    NSDFRand wrote: »

    Ignoring Ted Cruz looking like an ignoramus, our relationship with China is not comparable to our relationship with Cuba, especially since we have had since at least the Nixon administration to get comfortable with each other (Us and China).

    With Cuba we have the whole US supporting the Batista dictatorship, Operation Zapata, the Missile Crisis, attempted assassinations, nationalization of US held assets and property, and the ongoing embargo to consider when talking about Cuba-US relations, while with China we are more intertwined economically and have a healthier relationship with a China that is becoming more "capitalist" compared to decades ago.

    Yeah, the comparison du jour should really be our decades long diplomatic relationship and embassy in Vietnam instead of changing our China relations from Taiwan to Beijing.

  • NSDFRandNSDFRand FloridaRegistered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    I see a lot of reasons cuba wouldn't like us, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't in 2014 have an actual relationship with a country off our own coast.

    I mean if we can deal with the freaking canucks we can deal with Castro.

    I agree, just pointing out that Wolf comparing our relationship with Cuba to our relationship with China is a bit disingenuous.

    Though for all the vast majority of the US population cares, China and Cuba are both communist and Ted Cruz looks like a hypocritical dunder head.

  • ButtcleftButtcleft Registered User regular
    NSDFRand wrote: »

    Ignoring Ted Cruz looking like an ignoramus, our relationship with China is not comparable to our relationship with Cuba, especially since we have had since at least the Nixon administration to get comfortable with each other (Us and China).

    With Cuba we have the whole US supporting the Batista dictatorship, Operation Zapata, the Missile Crisis, attempted assassinations, nationalization of US held assets and property, and the ongoing embargo to consider when talking about Cuba-US relations, while with China we are more intertwined economically and have a healthier relationship with a China that is becoming more "capitalist" compared to decades ago.

    I would argue that our relationship with China is anything but Healthy..but that's another thread.

  • NSDFRandNSDFRand FloridaRegistered User regular
    Buttcleft wrote: »
    NSDFRand wrote: »

    Ignoring Ted Cruz looking like an ignoramus, our relationship with China is not comparable to our relationship with Cuba, especially since we have had since at least the Nixon administration to get comfortable with each other (Us and China).

    With Cuba we have the whole US supporting the Batista dictatorship, Operation Zapata, the Missile Crisis, attempted assassinations, nationalization of US held assets and property, and the ongoing embargo to consider when talking about Cuba-US relations, while with China we are more intertwined economically and have a healthier relationship with a China that is becoming more "capitalist" compared to decades ago.

    I would argue that our relationship with China is anything but Healthy..but that's another thread.

    I agree. Though my comment was a comparison, not a statement on our relationship with China alone.

  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    NSDFRand wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    I see a lot of reasons cuba wouldn't like us, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't in 2014 have an actual relationship with a country off our own coast.

    I mean if we can deal with the freaking canucks we can deal with Castro.

    I agree, just pointing out that Wolf comparing our relationship with Cuba to our relationship with China is a bit disingenuous.

    Though for all the vast majority of the US population cares, China and Cuba are both communist and Ted Cruz looks like a hypocritical dunder head.

    Yeah your second sentence is all that matters, though as was pointed out above Vietnam is the better comparison and shows how dumb the cuban stuff is considering we have a lot of Vietnamese people in the US and we literally lost a war in their country and we still have better relations.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    I see a lot of reasons cuba wouldn't like us, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't in 2014 have an actual relationship with a country off our own coast.

    I mean if we can deal with the freaking canucks we can deal with Castro.

    We also shouldn't pretend that having an embassy is some sort of gift for the nation its housed in. It's an embassy. Talking to people is most of what foreign policy entails, except when we're bombing people instead. Which, we have bombed places that we have embassies in. Hell, we've bombed embassies.

  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Well it is a "gift" in that it means we are opening negotiation which is better than "Talk to the hand cuban missile mother fuckers!" That was our previous policy.

    I almost wonder if this is an end round of getting rid of Guantanamo. Open up diplomatic relationships, give them back Guantanamo, and then we have to get rid of the few remaining prisoners there.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
  • AManFromEarthAManFromEarth Let's get to twerk! The King in the SwampRegistered User regular
    I highly doubt getting rid of Gitmo is on the table.

    But Russia wanted to build an airbase on the island. Doubt that'll happen now.

    Lh96QHG.png
  • ButtcleftButtcleft Registered User regular
    I highly doubt getting rid of Gitmo is on the table.

    But Russia wanted to build an airbase on the island. Doubt that'll happen now.

    The cynic in me wants to assume that our interest in warming relations with Cuba is precisely, and only, to prevent something like that from happening.

  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    Buttcleft wrote: »
    I highly doubt getting rid of Gitmo is on the table.

    But Russia wanted to build an airbase on the island. Doubt that'll happen now.

    The cynic in me wants to assume that our interest in warming relations with Cuba is precisely, and only, to prevent something like that from happening.

    It could be a motivating factor without being the sole reason.

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