And unless there's a space wizard based government out there I'm unaware of or maybe neo nazis get super in to the Empire, comparing the fictional governments to real ones and expressing annoyance/concern is still silly.
Otherwise now we also have to not root for the Jedi because they're pretty much a child stealing cult the moment you decide to overthink their organization like you're doing with the Empire.
Semantics. A space wizard being in charge doesn't mean the Empire wasn't heavily inspired by them, even George Lucas thought they were Nazis in Star Wars and he's not alone in that regard as a person creating that IP. Voldemort's a wizard, too - when he's conquered wizard Britain people noticed Nazi comparisons was all up ins. People compare fiction governments to real ones all the time, and why wouldn't they? Fiction is inspired by reality, it's a common technique for IP producers to draw inspiration from. Star Trek does it.
X-Wing is better. Blowing up a Star Destroyer was a multi-mission affair where you had to struggle to accomplish it, destroying supply vessels and escorts, making attack runs on its Shield Generators, and then finally getting the chance to land the knockout blow.
Blowing up an enemy capital ship in TIE Fighter could be accomplished by sitting behind its engines for 15 minutes holding down the trigger until it blew up, because every 4 laser blasts did 1% damage.
I started playing TIE Fighter a couple months ago and dropped it after a bit.
It's...uhh...very slow and boring. I don't know if that's me and my perception of an old space sim, or if that's just the game. Should I try another one from that series?
And unless there's a space wizard based government out there I'm unaware of or maybe neo nazis get super in to the Empire, comparing the fictional governments to real ones and expressing annoyance/concern is still silly.
Except the comparison is deliberate. They look nazi-esque for a reason.
Also, even minus the comparison, they are totally evil. In action and in how the films portray them.
Otherwise now we also have to not root for the Jedi because they're pretty much a child stealing cult the moment you decide to overthink their organization like you're doing with the Empire.
The PT Jedi are indeed weird. It's one of the big problems often discussed when the PT comes up, in that the movie and Lucas very much seem to want to portray them as pretty decent fellows despite what actually shows up on screen.
And unless there's a space wizard based government out there I'm unaware of or maybe neo nazis get super in to the Empire, comparing the fictional governments to real ones and expressing annoyance/concern is still silly.
Except the comparison is deliberate. They look nazi-esque for a reason.
Also, even minus the comparison, they are totally evil. In action and in how the films portray them.
You made your point that the look of the Empire deliberately evoked totalitarian regimes like Nazi Germany. You haven't gotten our point that the way you're bringing it up the way that you are is fucking insensitive and a breach of internet protocol. You may just be trying to make a legitimate point, but you're coming across like the lady in The Simpsons who keeps saying "Why won't anyone think of the children" or the talk show hosts from the '80s who tried to link D&D with black magic Satanism.
I've been trying to take the high road, concede the legitimate point you made, and move on. May I ask you to do the same?
And unless there's a space wizard based government out there I'm unaware of or maybe neo nazis get super in to the Empire, comparing the fictional governments to real ones and expressing annoyance/concern is still silly.
Except the comparison is deliberate. They look nazi-esque for a reason.
Also, even minus the comparison, they are totally evil. In action and in how the films portray them.
You made your point that the look of the Empire deliberately evoked totalitarian regimes like Nazi Germany. You haven't gotten our point that the way you're bringing it up the way that you are is fucking insensitive and a breach of internet protocol. You may just be trying to make a legitimate point, but you're coming across like the lady in The Simpsons who keeps saying "Why won't anyone think of the children" or the talk show hosts from the '80s who tried to link D&D with black magic Satanism.
I've been trying to take the high road, concede the legitimate point you made, and move on. May I ask you to do the same?
That's cause it's not. It doesn't even rise so far as the popular interpretation of Godwin's Law.
You seem to feel really strongly about this shit for some reason though.
And unless there's a space wizard based government out there I'm unaware of or maybe neo nazis get super in to the Empire, comparing the fictional governments to real ones and expressing annoyance/concern is still silly.
Except the comparison is deliberate. They look nazi-esque for a reason.
Also, even minus the comparison, they are totally evil. In action and in how the films portray them.
You made your point that the look of the Empire deliberately evoked totalitarian regimes like Nazi Germany. You haven't gotten our point that the way you're bringing it up the way that you are is fucking insensitive and a breach of internet protocol. You may just be trying to make a legitimate point, but you're coming across like the lady in The Simpsons who keeps saying "Why won't anyone think of the children" or the talk show hosts from the '80s who tried to link D&D with black magic Satanism.
I've been trying to take the high road, concede the legitimate point you made, and move on. May I ask you to do the same?
That's cause it's not. It doesn't even rise so far as the popular interpretation of Godwin's Law.
You seem to feel really strongly about this shit for some reason though.
You're asking why people like the Empire, under the context that they're Nazi Germany with the serial numbers filed off. Why are you asking that? What answer do you hope to get?
The implication, intended or not, is concern trolling, asking why people are rooting for Nazis.
This isn't Godwin's Law, it's way beyond it. Godwin's was just concerned with the time it took for any thread to reach "Hitler." We got there and moved on to implied Nazi allegations.
I care because:
* I think that you're mis-using the term "expy"
* I have friends that cosplay as the 501st Stormtrooper division and are good people with no Nazi sympathies at all
* Having a hard time imagining why you would even ask why pretend evil is fun... Dexter and Breaking Bad are very popular shows, but real evil, like the real Nazis, are no joke
Unless you're on Hogan's Heroes, which was a documentary
* I think that you're intentionally being a goose
But, you know, I'm trying to have a Star Wars thread discussion here, so I'm done. Was hoping for a gentleman's agreement, but I'll just ignore your tangent from this point if I need to.
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
edited March 2015
Kiiiinda feel bad now for even bringing up the Nazi thing, because it's sort of taken over the thread. Because you know who else takes things over? Nazis.
So I guess the real lesson is that man is the real Nazi.
And I wish I had some clever way to say we should probably go back to talking about Star Wars, but I don't. So... I'll just say it in a non-clever way, which is what I just did.
Ooh! I know! This thing I just found out about the other day and I'm sure everybody already probably knows about, but whatever, I like it: Darths and Droids. The Star Wars films as a pen and paper RPG campaign. It starts out with the PT and, not surprisingly, it makes a helluva lot more sense than what actually happens in the films.
Ooh! I know! This thing I just found out about the other day and I'm sure everybody already probably knows about, but whatever, I like it: Darths and Droids. The Star Wars films as a pen and paper RPG campaign. It starts out with the PT and, not surprisingly, it makes a helluva lot more sense than what actually happens in the films.
I love that comic. Haven't read it for several months, but it's an excellent re-imagining of the movies AND it simultaneously tells the story of a group of gamers, and their social dynamics. I think my favorite is Sally (who ends up playing Jar-Jar, Yoda, C3PO, and any important weird alien). She starts as a little kid with a little kid's imagination, but she gets older and weirder as the campaigns go on.
Rebels season 1 is finished, it progressively gets better in quality (although it's not even bad to start, the kids show tropes are just more grating at the start) and by the end of the season it's really quite good
What I take issue with is the idea that rank and file Imps are not evil because they only joined the Empire to go to space-college or get off Tatooine or whatever. Even if they have never been ordered to blow up any planets themselves they are still supporting an evil system.
While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
What I take issue with is the idea that rank and file Imps are not evil because they only joined the Empire to go to space-college or get off Tatooine or whatever. Even if they have never been ordered to blow up any planets themselves they are still supporting an evil system.
Ehhhh... I'm real hesitant to dismiss people who "support an evil system" simply by living where they were born and getting jobs to feed their families. Lot of compelling stories can be told about moral people who gradually, over time, realize that the government or organization they thought they knew has been evil all along. That's, like, the basis for tons of dystopian literature/movies.
Most Stormtroopers probably don't even realize that they're the bad guys... in fact, everyone's a hero in their own story.
What I take issue with is the idea that rank and file Imps are not evil because they only joined the Empire to go to space-college or get off Tatooine or whatever. Even if they have never been ordered to blow up any planets themselves they are still supporting an evil system.
Most people don't give a shit about politics and just try to keep their head down and get on with their day
it's a lot to expect of a space baker to risk getting shot because he lives under an oppressive government, or him and his family as the empire do
I mean, as far as anyone born after the PT is concerned, the empire is the legitimate government and that's that
By taking such a black and white stance you might as well say everyone here supports slavery because our clothes were made in sweatshops, imo
X-Wing is better. Blowing up a Star Destroyer was a multi-mission affair where you had to struggle to accomplish it, destroying supply vessels and escorts, making attack runs on its Shield Generators, and then finally getting the chance to land the knockout blow.
Blowing up an enemy capital ship in TIE Fighter could be accomplished by sitting behind its engines for 15 minutes holding down the trigger until it blew up, because every 4 laser blasts did 1% damage.
I started playing TIE Fighter a couple months ago and dropped it after a bit.
It's...uhh...very slow and boring. I don't know if that's me and my perception of an old space sim, or if that's just the game. Should I try another one from that series?
You'll find X-Wing boring for much the same reasons.
They are old "lite" flight sims. They were all very slow.
XWA is probably less slow, if only because missions are much more scripted (which has its own issues) and the constant chatter (that you might find annoying).
X-Wing is better. Blowing up a Star Destroyer was a multi-mission affair where you had to struggle to accomplish it, destroying supply vessels and escorts, making attack runs on its Shield Generators, and then finally getting the chance to land the knockout blow.
Blowing up an enemy capital ship in TIE Fighter could be accomplished by sitting behind its engines for 15 minutes holding down the trigger until it blew up, because every 4 laser blasts did 1% damage.
I started playing TIE Fighter a couple months ago and dropped it after a bit.
It's...uhh...very slow and boring. I don't know if that's me and my perception of an old space sim, or if that's just the game. Should I try another one from that series?
You'll find X-Wing boring for much the same reasons.
They are old "lite" flight sims. They were all very slow.
XWA is probably less slow, if only because missions are much more scripted (which has its own issues) and the constant chatter (that you might find annoying).
Yeah. X-Wing and TIE Fighter are still fun and playable, but space sims have moved on. They're very slow. All four games in that series are slow, but XvT is still my favourite. It most captured the vibe of the space battles in the movies for me.
Rogue Leader is much faster/fun IMO, but I still like XvT the best.
What I take issue with is the idea that rank and file Imps are not evil because they only joined the Empire to go to space-college or get off Tatooine or whatever. Even if they have never been ordered to blow up any planets themselves they are still supporting an evil system.
That was Luke's plan before he met Obi-Wan. He didn't have a lot of options.
What I take issue with is the idea that rank and file Imps are not evil because they only joined the Empire to go to space-college or get off Tatooine or whatever. Even if they have never been ordered to blow up any planets themselves they are still supporting an evil system.
That was Luke's plan before he met Obi-Wan. He didn't have a lot of options.
Biggs defected literally on his first posting, IIRC, which is fine.
While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
X-Wing is better. Blowing up a Star Destroyer was a multi-mission affair where you had to struggle to accomplish it, destroying supply vessels and escorts, making attack runs on its Shield Generators, and then finally getting the chance to land the knockout blow.
Blowing up an enemy capital ship in TIE Fighter could be accomplished by sitting behind its engines for 15 minutes holding down the trigger until it blew up, because every 4 laser blasts did 1% damage.
I started playing TIE Fighter a couple months ago and dropped it after a bit.
It's...uhh...very slow and boring. I don't know if that's me and my perception of an old space sim, or if that's just the game. Should I try another one from that series?
You'll find X-Wing boring for much the same reasons.
They are old "lite" flight sims. They were all very slow.
XWA is probably less slow, if only because missions are much more scripted (which has its own issues) and the constant chatter (that you might find annoying).
Yeah. X-Wing and TIE Fighter are still fun and playable, but space sims have moved on. They're very slow. All four games in that series are slow, but XvT is still my favourite. It most captured the vibe of the space battles in the movies for me.
Rogue Leader is much faster/fun IMO, but I still like XvT the best.
Balance of Power makes XvT an actual singleplayer experience as oppose to a bunch of multiplayer matches you can play with bots--though technically, it's a big step up from TIE Fighter no matter what (which in turn is a big step up from X-Wing).
TIE FIghter pulls ahead as the best singleplayer experience overall, even if certain BoP missions are much, much grander in scope (the inclusion of the Executor-class ships alone...).
It's not like defecting is easy or safe. The Empire has eyes and ears everywhere, and unlimited manpower. Unless you have a well-planned Rebel hook-up, your defection is probably going to be brief and blast-y.
Yeah. X-Wing and TIE Fighter are still fun and playable, but space sims have moved on.
Not sure it's a matter of 'having moved on' so much as these games simply aiming for something different than other space sims. They set out to be more methodical and 'sim'-ish than the Freespace or Wing Commander games. They're not as much about simulation as the IL-2 Sturmovik series, but in terms of mission design that's what they were aiming for.
"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
And unless there's a space wizard based government out there I'm unaware of or maybe neo nazis get super in to the Empire, comparing the fictional governments to real ones and expressing annoyance/concern is still silly.
Except the comparison is deliberate. They look nazi-esque for a reason.
Also, even minus the comparison, they are totally evil. In action and in how the films portray them.
You made your point that the look of the Empire deliberately evoked totalitarian regimes like Nazi Germany. You haven't gotten our point that the way you're bringing it up the way that you are is fucking insensitive and a breach of internet protocol. You may just be trying to make a legitimate point, but you're coming across like the lady in The Simpsons who keeps saying "Why won't anyone think of the children" or the talk show hosts from the '80s who tried to link D&D with black magic Satanism.
I've been trying to take the high road, concede the legitimate point you made, and move on. May I ask you to do the same?
That's cause it's not. It doesn't even rise so far as the popular interpretation of Godwin's Law.
You seem to feel really strongly about this shit for some reason though.
You're asking why people like the Empire, under the context that they're Nazi Germany with the serial numbers filed off. Why are you asking that? What answer do you hope to get?
The implication, intended or not, is concern trolling, asking why people are rooting for Nazis.
This isn't Godwin's Law, it's way beyond it. Godwin's was just concerned with the time it took for any thread to reach "Hitler." We got there and moved on to implied Nazi allegations.
I care because:
* I think that you're mis-using the term "expy"
* I have friends that cosplay as the 501st Stormtrooper division and are good people with no Nazi sympathies at all
* Having a hard time imagining why you would even ask why pretend evil is fun... Dexter and Breaking Bad are very popular shows, but real evil, like the real Nazis, are no joke
Unless you're on Hogan's Heroes, which was a documentary
* I think that you're intentionally being a goose
But, you know, I'm trying to have a Star Wars thread discussion here, so I'm done. Was hoping for a gentleman's agreement, but I'll just ignore your tangent from this point if I need to.
No, the implication is "It's weird to see people rooting for or defending a fictional organization that are literally space-nazis?". An orginization portrayed as comically planet-destroyingly evil. This is Star Wars after all, it's not subtle.
It's like some weird combination of a love of the "But the bad guy was secretly trying to do something for the greater good all along" cliche and a love of snazzy outfits and god knows what else.
You seem to take this shit personally because some of your friends cosplay as stormtroopers or something. But that's not my problem nor is it anything but an attempt to shutdown discussion with false accusations of "bad faith" for pointing out the obvious. You are being an incredibly large goose about this.
PS - I never used the term "expy", whatever the fuck that means. Looks like a typo.
Most people would consider important that they're not nazis when calling them literal nazis too.
But you just keep swinging that word around I guess. I'm definitely not interested in this tangent anymore.
I called them literally space-nazis. Cause that's what they are. A fictional third-reich-esque regime in space. Not, like, the actual nazis. Most people would consider it important to notice what I actually said.
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Blameless Cleric An angel made of sapphires each more flawlessly cut than the last Registered Userregular
speaking of Star Wars
Aikido Instructor brought lightsabers in to play with while we were doing swords practice yesterday
it was awesome
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Semantics. A space wizard being in charge doesn't mean the Empire wasn't heavily inspired by them, even George Lucas thought they were Nazis in Star Wars and he's not alone in that regard as a person creating that IP. Voldemort's a wizard, too - when he's conquered wizard Britain people noticed Nazi comparisons was all up ins. People compare fiction governments to real ones all the time, and why wouldn't they? Fiction is inspired by reality, it's a common technique for IP producers to draw inspiration from. Star Trek does it.
The Jedi.
Yup. Someone had to post it.
I was shocked that nobody had already.
I have proof
I started playing TIE Fighter a couple months ago and dropped it after a bit.
It's...uhh...very slow and boring. I don't know if that's me and my perception of an old space sim, or if that's just the game. Should I try another one from that series?
"If this is a counselor ship, where is the ambassador?"
edit: missing word...also, yes, I screencapped this myself tonight, watching the movie....again.
Except the comparison is deliberate. They look nazi-esque for a reason.
Also, even minus the comparison, they are totally evil. In action and in how the films portray them.
The PT Jedi are indeed weird. It's one of the big problems often discussed when the PT comes up, in that the movie and Lucas very much seem to want to portray them as pretty decent fellows despite what actually shows up on screen.
You made your point that the look of the Empire deliberately evoked totalitarian regimes like Nazi Germany. You haven't gotten our point that the way you're bringing it up the way that you are is fucking insensitive and a breach of internet protocol. You may just be trying to make a legitimate point, but you're coming across like the lady in The Simpsons who keeps saying "Why won't anyone think of the children" or the talk show hosts from the '80s who tried to link D&D with black magic Satanism.
I've been trying to take the high road, concede the legitimate point you made, and move on. May I ask you to do the same?
That's cause it's not. It doesn't even rise so far as the popular interpretation of Godwin's Law.
You seem to feel really strongly about this shit for some reason though.
You're asking why people like the Empire, under the context that they're Nazi Germany with the serial numbers filed off. Why are you asking that? What answer do you hope to get?
The implication, intended or not, is concern trolling, asking why people are rooting for Nazis.
This isn't Godwin's Law, it's way beyond it. Godwin's was just concerned with the time it took for any thread to reach "Hitler." We got there and moved on to implied Nazi allegations.
I care because:
* I think that you're mis-using the term "expy"
* I have friends that cosplay as the 501st Stormtrooper division and are good people with no Nazi sympathies at all
* Having a hard time imagining why you would even ask why pretend evil is fun... Dexter and Breaking Bad are very popular shows, but real evil, like the real Nazis, are no joke
But, you know, I'm trying to have a Star Wars thread discussion here, so I'm done. Was hoping for a gentleman's agreement, but I'll just ignore your tangent from this point if I need to.
So I guess the real lesson is that man is the real Nazi.
And I wish I had some clever way to say we should probably go back to talking about Star Wars, but I don't. So... I'll just say it in a non-clever way, which is what I just did.
Ooh! I know! This thing I just found out about the other day and I'm sure everybody already probably knows about, but whatever, I like it: Darths and Droids. The Star Wars films as a pen and paper RPG campaign. It starts out with the PT and, not surprisingly, it makes a helluva lot more sense than what actually happens in the films.
I love that comic. Haven't read it for several months, but it's an excellent re-imagining of the movies AND it simultaneously tells the story of a group of gamers, and their social dynamics. I think my favorite is Sally (who ends up playing Jar-Jar, Yoda, C3PO, and any important weird alien). She starts as a little kid with a little kid's imagination, but she gets older and weirder as the campaigns go on.
Ehhhh... I'm real hesitant to dismiss people who "support an evil system" simply by living where they were born and getting jobs to feed their families. Lot of compelling stories can be told about moral people who gradually, over time, realize that the government or organization they thought they knew has been evil all along. That's, like, the basis for tons of dystopian literature/movies.
Most Stormtroopers probably don't even realize that they're the bad guys... in fact, everyone's a hero in their own story.
Most people don't give a shit about politics and just try to keep their head down and get on with their day
it's a lot to expect of a space baker to risk getting shot because he lives under an oppressive government, or him and his family as the empire do
I mean, as far as anyone born after the PT is concerned, the empire is the legitimate government and that's that
By taking such a black and white stance you might as well say everyone here supports slavery because our clothes were made in sweatshops, imo
You'll find X-Wing boring for much the same reasons.
They are old "lite" flight sims. They were all very slow.
XWA is probably less slow, if only because missions are much more scripted (which has its own issues) and the constant chatter (that you might find annoying).
Yeah. X-Wing and TIE Fighter are still fun and playable, but space sims have moved on. They're very slow. All four games in that series are slow, but XvT is still my favourite. It most captured the vibe of the space battles in the movies for me.
Rogue Leader is much faster/fun IMO, but I still like XvT the best.
That was Luke's plan before he met Obi-Wan. He didn't have a lot of options.
Biggs defected literally on his first posting, IIRC, which is fine.
Balance of Power makes XvT an actual singleplayer experience as oppose to a bunch of multiplayer matches you can play with bots--though technically, it's a big step up from TIE Fighter no matter what (which in turn is a big step up from X-Wing).
TIE FIghter pulls ahead as the best singleplayer experience overall, even if certain BoP missions are much, much grander in scope (the inclusion of the Executor-class ships alone...).
"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
No, the implication is "It's weird to see people rooting for or defending a fictional organization that are literally space-nazis?". An orginization portrayed as comically planet-destroyingly evil. This is Star Wars after all, it's not subtle.
It's like some weird combination of a love of the "But the bad guy was secretly trying to do something for the greater good all along" cliche and a love of snazzy outfits and god knows what else.
You seem to take this shit personally because some of your friends cosplay as stormtroopers or something. But that's not my problem nor is it anything but an attempt to shutdown discussion with false accusations of "bad faith" for pointing out the obvious. You are being an incredibly large goose about this.
PS - I never used the term "expy", whatever the fuck that means. Looks like a typo.
You're saying they're rooting for literal space nazis.
I see.
Yes. There's kind of a big difference cause one is fictional.
But you just keep swinging that word around I guess. I'm definitely not interested in this tangent anymore.
[Star Wars Movies] Thread.
It's been six months since the rebel geese attack on the Empire's pure and gentle spirit...
I called them literally space-nazis. Cause that's what they are. A fictional third-reich-esque regime in space. Not, like, the actual nazis. Most people would consider it important to notice what I actually said.
Aikido Instructor brought lightsabers in to play with while we were doing swords practice yesterday
it was awesome
I'd love it if you took a look at my art and my PATREON!
Jesus fucking shit can we please get beyond the Nazidome?