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[Canadian Politics]: New Liberal Cabinet Sworn In

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    DaimarDaimar A Million Feet Tall of Awesome Registered User regular
    http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/crtc-introduces-pick-and-pay-channels-25-basic-package-1.3001370

    Looks like the CRTC is telling the cable companies to offer a-la-cart channels, so yay consumer rights. Since this was encouraged by the PCs there probably won't be any political interference about it.

    Only going to take effect by December 2016, so there's a year and a half of waiting to get rid of garbage channels if you haven't cut the cord.

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    ImperfectImperfect Toronto, Ontario, CanadaRegistered User regular
    Daimar wrote: »
    http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/crtc-introduces-pick-and-pay-channels-25-basic-package-1.3001370

    Looks like the CRTC is telling the cable companies to offer a-la-cart channels, so yay consumer rights. Since this was encouraged by the PCs there probably won't be any political interference about it.

    Only going to take effect by December 2016, so there's a year and a half of waiting to get rid of garbage channels if you haven't cut the cord.

    This is kind of hilarious.

    I mean, people are cutting the cord in record numbers. The next generation will never have had cable, let alone cut any cord. I'm still reasonably old, and I never had cable from the moment I left my parents's house.

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    Al_watAl_wat Registered User regular
    I try watching cable from time to time but honestly, the commercials are just unbearable

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    shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Imperfect wrote: »
    Daimar wrote: »
    http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/crtc-introduces-pick-and-pay-channels-25-basic-package-1.3001370

    Looks like the CRTC is telling the cable companies to offer a-la-cart channels, so yay consumer rights. Since this was encouraged by the PCs there probably won't be any political interference about it.

    Only going to take effect by December 2016, so there's a year and a half of waiting to get rid of garbage channels if you haven't cut the cord.

    This is kind of hilarious.

    I mean, people are cutting the cord in record numbers. The next generation will never have had cable, let alone cut any cord. I'm still reasonably old, and I never had cable from the moment I left my parents's house.

    People still watch sports.

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    FoomyFoomy Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    Imperfect wrote: »
    Daimar wrote: »
    http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/crtc-introduces-pick-and-pay-channels-25-basic-package-1.3001370

    Looks like the CRTC is telling the cable companies to offer a-la-cart channels, so yay consumer rights. Since this was encouraged by the PCs there probably won't be any political interference about it.

    Only going to take effect by December 2016, so there's a year and a half of waiting to get rid of garbage channels if you haven't cut the cord.

    This is kind of hilarious.

    I mean, people are cutting the cord in record numbers. The next generation will never have had cable, let alone cut any cord. I'm still reasonably old, and I never had cable from the moment I left my parents's house.

    People still watch sports.

    lot of sports channels are also moving to streaming services. Like I can get all the sportsnets channels on my ipad now, nfl/mlb/nhl with their own streaming services. ESPN is now available on slingbox, etc.

    But give it another 5 years at most and you'll be able to just signup to any sport you want, or sports network streaming service on it's own sans any cable subscription.

    Steam Profile: FoomyFooms
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    SwashbucklerXXSwashbucklerXX Swashbucklin' Canuck Registered User regular
    As long as we are bringing up ideals, is it alright if I mention my interest in our MLAs and MPs being elected by a STV for proportional representation ridings? I think more than a few problems would be solved with our MLAs and MPs better representing us than FPTP bullshit that currently saddled us with the Con majority of seats in parliament.

    Yeah, this would be excellent.

    And although the US is indeed seriously screwed, the good parts of the system are that it's not as heavily whipped as ours and you get to vote for a rep you like without that vote immediately meaning you're endorsing the leader of that party as the executive. I'd be happy with any reform that lets MPs have more independence and reduces the stupid voting games Canadians keep playing because what they really want is a minority government.

    Want to find me on a gaming service? I'm SwashbucklerXX everywhere.
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    shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Foomy wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Imperfect wrote: »
    Daimar wrote: »
    http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/crtc-introduces-pick-and-pay-channels-25-basic-package-1.3001370

    Looks like the CRTC is telling the cable companies to offer a-la-cart channels, so yay consumer rights. Since this was encouraged by the PCs there probably won't be any political interference about it.

    Only going to take effect by December 2016, so there's a year and a half of waiting to get rid of garbage channels if you haven't cut the cord.

    This is kind of hilarious.

    I mean, people are cutting the cord in record numbers. The next generation will never have had cable, let alone cut any cord. I'm still reasonably old, and I never had cable from the moment I left my parents's house.

    People still watch sports.

    lot of sports channels are also moving to streaming services. Like I can get all the sportsnets channels on my ipad now, nfl/mlb/nhl with their own streaming services. ESPN is now available on slingbox, etc.

    But give it another 5 years at most and you'll be able to just signup to any sport you want, or sports network streaming service on it's own sans any cable subscription.

    Kinda. Alot of them have walked it back later too. Good sports coverage is still the one thing you can't get if you cut the cable.

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    Al_watAl_wat Registered User regular
    So the Ontario Liberal Wynne government is floating the idea of privatizing Hydro One, the crown corporation which controls electrical transmission.

    I have not heard of anyone who thinks this is a good idea, from either side of the political spectrum. I haven't made up my mind because I don't know enough about the economics of the issue. It seems strange to me that the Liberals would be the ones to want to do this.

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    EtiowsaEtiowsa Registered User regular
    From what I heard, they only want to partially privatize it, but I still don't think it will actually help anything.

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    shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Etiowsa wrote: »
    From what I heard, they only want to partially privatize it, but I still don't think it will actually help anything.

    Nothing the Ontario government has done to Ontario Hydro for the past ... oh, 25 years has been any good.

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    CorporateGoonCorporateGoon Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    Etiowsa wrote: »
    From what I heard, they only want to partially privatize it, but I still don't think it will actually help anything.

    Nothing the Ontario government has done to Ontario Hydro for the past ... oh, 25 years has been any good.

    They shut down all the coal plants. That was good for the environment, at least.

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    Nova_CNova_C I have the need The need for speedRegistered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    Foomy wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Imperfect wrote: »
    Daimar wrote: »
    http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/crtc-introduces-pick-and-pay-channels-25-basic-package-1.3001370

    Looks like the CRTC is telling the cable companies to offer a-la-cart channels, so yay consumer rights. Since this was encouraged by the PCs there probably won't be any political interference about it.

    Only going to take effect by December 2016, so there's a year and a half of waiting to get rid of garbage channels if you haven't cut the cord.

    This is kind of hilarious.

    I mean, people are cutting the cord in record numbers. The next generation will never have had cable, let alone cut any cord. I'm still reasonably old, and I never had cable from the moment I left my parents's house.

    People still watch sports.

    lot of sports channels are also moving to streaming services. Like I can get all the sportsnets channels on my ipad now, nfl/mlb/nhl with their own streaming services. ESPN is now available on slingbox, etc.

    But give it another 5 years at most and you'll be able to just signup to any sport you want, or sports network streaming service on it's own sans any cable subscription.

    Kinda. Alot of them have walked it back later too. Good sports coverage is still the one thing you can't get if you cut the cable.

    Very much so.

    I would love to sign up for NHL streaming, except I am in Yellowknife which means I can't watch any Flames games on streaming. So it's a waste of money. I mean, I'll watch Montreal games, but my hometeam is Calgary. As soon as enough people truly jump ship on cable TV, though, that blackout bullshit will finally ease.

    As it is, if I want to watch Calgary games, I have to sign up for cable + 2 different sports packages because the various away games will not always be on the same network. So I'm looking at over a thousand dollars a year just to watch NHL games?

    No thanks.

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    Ed GrubermanEd Gruberman Registered User regular
    Nova_C wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Foomy wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Imperfect wrote: »
    Daimar wrote: »
    http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/crtc-introduces-pick-and-pay-channels-25-basic-package-1.3001370

    Looks like the CRTC is telling the cable companies to offer a-la-cart channels, so yay consumer rights. Since this was encouraged by the PCs there probably won't be any political interference about it.

    Only going to take effect by December 2016, so there's a year and a half of waiting to get rid of garbage channels if you haven't cut the cord.

    This is kind of hilarious.

    I mean, people are cutting the cord in record numbers. The next generation will never have had cable, let alone cut any cord. I'm still reasonably old, and I never had cable from the moment I left my parents's house.

    People still watch sports.

    lot of sports channels are also moving to streaming services. Like I can get all the sportsnets channels on my ipad now, nfl/mlb/nhl with their own streaming services. ESPN is now available on slingbox, etc.

    But give it another 5 years at most and you'll be able to just signup to any sport you want, or sports network streaming service on it's own sans any cable subscription.

    Kinda. Alot of them have walked it back later too. Good sports coverage is still the one thing you can't get if you cut the cable.

    Very much so.

    I would love to sign up for NHL streaming, except I am in Yellowknife which means I can't watch any Flames games on streaming. So it's a waste of money. I mean, I'll watch Montreal games, but my hometeam is Calgary. As soon as enough people truly jump ship on cable TV, though, that blackout bullshit will finally ease.

    As it is, if I want to watch Calgary games, I have to sign up for cable + 2 different sports packages because the various away games will not always be on the same network. So I'm looking at over a thousand dollars a year just to watch NHL games?

    No thanks.

    The baseball blackout thing is really annoying too. You can subscribe to MLB.TV for like $120 per season but it's only out-of-market games. And unfortunately, the Blue Jays market is Canada. So short of VPNing which I'm not sure works, the MLB.TV subscription is not that useful for me. I can't even watch all the Blue Jays games let alone other teams.

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    hippofanthippofant ティンク Registered User regular
    The details about the deal are wrong, but whoop, I'm still on strike: http://www.640toronto.com/2015/03/23/teaching-assistants-remain-on-strike/

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    RichyRichy Registered User regular
    hippofant wrote: »
    The details about the deal are wrong, but whoop, I'm still on strike: http://www.640toronto.com/2015/03/23/teaching-assistants-remain-on-strike/

    Detail. There's only one given. And it's been carefully picked and phrased to make the striking side look like spoiled whiners. Or at least it'll look that way to people who think universities and unions negotiate through post-it notes. Also, aren't contract lecturers on strike along with TAs?

    sig.gif
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    blkmageblkmage Registered User regular
    At U of T, contract faculty accepted an offer just before the TAs went on strike. They were on strike at York, but shortly accepted an offer that the TAs didn't, so they're not on strike anymore.

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    Ed GrubermanEd Gruberman Registered User regular
    edited March 2015
    I worked at U of T for a few years at a Research Centre. I was never on good terms with the union because it sure seemed like they were keeping me from getting more (my manager tried to give me a raise but was "handcuffed" by the union rules because of my classification). And it's funny because it was my manager who would come in and tell me that I might be on strike tommorrow.

    EDIT: I'm pretty sure we were a different union than the TAs though but that was my only union experience and it left a bit of a sour taste in my mouth.

    Ed Gruberman on
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    RichyRichy Registered User regular
    blkmage wrote: »
    At U of T, contract faculty accepted an offer just before the TAs went on strike. They were on strike at York, but shortly accepted an offer that the TAs didn't, so they're not on strike anymore.

    I see. Thanks for the clarification!

    sig.gif
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    hippofanthippofant ティンク Registered User regular
    I worked at U of T for a few years at a Research Centre. I was never on good terms with the union because it sure seemed like they were keeping me from getting more (my manager tried to give me a raise but was "handcuffed" by the union rules because of my classification). And it's funny because it was my manager who would come in and tell me that I might be on strike tommorrow.

    EDIT: I'm pretty sure we were a different union than the TAs though but that was my only union experience and it left a bit of a sour taste in my mouth.

    Sounds like USW 1998. They've been engaged in a protracted battle with the university for years over defining duties and establishing pay bands. Part of it is that office administrations (among others) are often asked to just "pick up" extra duties randomly by department chairs, and there's great inconsistency between departments over what work people with the same job titles do.

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    Ed GrubermanEd Gruberman Registered User regular
    hippofant wrote: »
    I worked at U of T for a few years at a Research Centre. I was never on good terms with the union because it sure seemed like they were keeping me from getting more (my manager tried to give me a raise but was "handcuffed" by the union rules because of my classification). And it's funny because it was my manager who would come in and tell me that I might be on strike tommorrow.

    EDIT: I'm pretty sure we were a different union than the TAs though but that was my only union experience and it left a bit of a sour taste in my mouth.

    Sounds like USW 1998. They've been engaged in a protracted battle with the university for years over defining duties and establishing pay bands. Part of it is that office administrations (among others) are often asked to just "pick up" extra duties randomly by department chairs, and there's great inconsistency between departments over what work people with the same job titles do.

    That's the one. Our thing was that I had been conducting research in a pretty specialized field for a number of years and it was something that people just don't come in with. My manager wanted to give me a big raise but to give me what he wanted, he would have to reclassify the position to either a Masters or PhD level (which I didn't have but could argue I had equivalent experience). But then if I left, it would make the position that much harder to fill since people don't have experience in this field and having a Masters or PhD do not make you better at the position (in fact, we had some MBA people who were very bad at it).

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    hippofanthippofant ティンク Registered User regular
    I dunno if you guys care about what's happening at UofT, but lololol, the Faculty of Arts and Science has basically declared that students are going to get free credits for courses this term:
    In courses where not enough work is available to be marked or the instructor is absent and continues to be absent, there are alternative options, including the possible use of general letter grades (A, B, C, etc.) or CR/NCR in place of numeric grades. The instructor or in the case of a course with an absent instructor, a departmental representative will communicate with the class to determine how to proceed. Please wait to make any final decisions about your courses until the plan for each course has been fully communicated to you.

    What a shitshow.

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    BouwsTBouwsT Wanna come to a super soft birthday party? Registered User regular
    Not good form by the PC's. Elizabeth May denied the opportunity to voice concerns about Canadian Military action against ISIS / ISIL.

    Between you and me, Peggy, I smoked this Juul and it did UNTHINKABLE things to my mind and body...
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    hippofanthippofant ティンク Registered User regular
    And we have driven the elusive Meric Gertler out from his hidey hole:

    http://www.thestar.com/yourtoronto/education/2015/03/25/strikes-continue-at-york-university-of-toronto.html

    Does somebody here who knows more than me tell me whether I should like or dislike binding arbitration?

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    Gnome-InterruptusGnome-Interruptus Registered User regular
    hippofant wrote: »
    And we have driven the elusive Meric Gertler out from his hidey hole:

    http://www.thestar.com/yourtoronto/education/2015/03/25/strikes-continue-at-york-university-of-toronto.html

    Does somebody here who knows more than me tell me whether I should like or dislike binding arbitration?

    In general, Binding Arbitration has a large risk of favoring the groups that pay them in aggregate.

    Its sort of like counselors, where even though there is some form of professionalism involved, it doesn't necessarily weed out personal prejudices.

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    MWO: Adamski
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    Al_watAl_wat Registered User regular
    I am not fully knowledgeable about these matters, but people in my union who do know about this stuff always say that arbitration usually favours the union.

    I don't know if that is specific to my union, my union/employer relationship, or all unions.

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    DaimarDaimar A Million Feet Tall of Awesome Registered User regular
    Alberta budget is out. Highlights are new, higher tax brackets for people above $100K and $250K, the return of health care premiums, bump to fuel and cigarette taxes, lots of service fee increases or creation of fees where there were none before, some family feel good tax credits and...other stuff

    http://alberta.ca/release.cfm?xID=379486D767B80-E6B6-D13B-D2D8C1E809442C2F - news release
    http://finance.alberta.ca/publications/budget/budget2015/fiscal-plan-tables.pdf#changes direct link to tables of tax changes, also has full budget

    steam_sig.png
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    hippofanthippofant ティンク Registered User regular
    hippofant wrote: »
    And we have driven the elusive Meric Gertler out from his hidey hole:

    http://www.thestar.com/yourtoronto/education/2015/03/25/strikes-continue-at-york-university-of-toronto.html

    Does somebody here who knows more than me tell me whether I should like or dislike binding arbitration?

    In general, Binding Arbitration has a large risk of favoring the groups that pay them in aggregate.

    Its sort of like counselors, where even though there is some form of professionalism involved, it doesn't necessarily weed out personal prejudices.
    Al_wat wrote: »
    I am not fully knowledgeable about these matters, but people in my union who do know about this stuff always say that arbitration usually favours the union.

    I don't know if that is specific to my union, my union/employer relationship, or all unions.

    Welp. It's binding arbitration for us. Sentiment is that it'll favour us financially, but not structurally, which is unfortunate, since what we were striking for was, fundamentally, structural changes so that graduate students received defined benefits on a per-member basis. But we were pushing too close to the end of the term, and people weren't willing to do what it would take to severely disrupt the university. We took too long getting organized and ramped up, but we're already looking ahead to 2018.

    Sigh.

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    blkmageblkmage Registered User regular
    Daimar wrote: »
    Alberta budget is out. Highlights are new, higher tax brackets for people above $100K and $250K, the return of health care premiums, bump to fuel and cigarette taxes, lots of service fee increases or creation of fees where there were none before, some family feel good tax credits and...other stuff

    http://alberta.ca/release.cfm?xID=379486D767B80-E6B6-D13B-D2D8C1E809442C2F - news release
    http://finance.alberta.ca/publications/budget/budget2015/fiscal-plan-tables.pdf#changes direct link to tables of tax changes, also has full budget

    I was wondering how Danielle Smith would feel about having to go out and sell this, but I guess she doesn't have to worry about that anymore...

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    hippofanthippofant ティンク Registered User regular
    blkmage wrote: »
    Daimar wrote: »
    Alberta budget is out. Highlights are new, higher tax brackets for people above $100K and $250K, the return of health care premiums, bump to fuel and cigarette taxes, lots of service fee increases or creation of fees where there were none before, some family feel good tax credits and...other stuff

    http://alberta.ca/release.cfm?xID=379486D767B80-E6B6-D13B-D2D8C1E809442C2F - news release
    http://finance.alberta.ca/publications/budget/budget2015/fiscal-plan-tables.pdf#changes direct link to tables of tax changes, also has full budget

    I was wondering how Danielle Smith would feel about having to go out and sell this, but I guess she doesn't have to worry about that anymore...

    Webpage is down? CBC story here: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/danielle-smith-loses-pc-nomination-in-highwood-to-carrie-fischer-1.3013567

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    TubularLuggageTubularLuggage Registered User regular
    So apparently every Futureshop in the country is either going to close or be converted into a BestBuy. Learning nothing from Target, most of their employees found out when they showed up for work and found the place locked with a sign on the door.
    http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/future-shop-stores-closed-across-canada-some-to-rebrand-as-best-buy-1.3013534

    1500 people will be put out of work (500 full time, 1000 part time).

    I think it's the suddenness of the move and the complete lack of letting their own employees know that bothers me the most. I'm sure as hell not going to buy anything from Bestbuy after this.

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    hippofanthippofant ティンク Registered User regular
    edited March 2015
    So apparently every Futureshop in the country is either going to close or be converted into a BestBuy. Learning nothing from Target, most of their employees found out when they showed up for work and found the place locked with a sign on the door.
    http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/future-shop-stores-closed-across-canada-some-to-rebrand-as-best-buy-1.3013534

    1500 people will be put out of work (500 full time, 1000 part time).

    I think it's the suddenness of the move and the complete lack of letting their own employees know that bothers me the most. I'm sure as hell not going to buy anything from Bestbuy after this.

    People still go to BestBuy? I changed over almost entirely to online retailers and small electronics chains years ago, and I still frequent Loblaws and McDonald's :O

    hippofant on
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    The WolfmanThe Wolfman Registered User regular
    It never made much sense to me why both stores existed when they were almost literally exactly the same. Even their websites were identical. I'm pretty sure that realization is what spurred Best Buy to leave Vancouver Island a while ago. In Victoria, the Futureshop and Best Buy were in the same damn mall.

    Business wise, it doesn't sound like a bad idea, just a sudden shock. Personnel wise, it's never good when people lose their jobs to redundancy. And finding out because the fucking building was locked is universally stupid, seriously.

    "The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
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    TubularLuggageTubularLuggage Registered User regular
    It never made much sense to me why both stores existed when they were almost literally exactly the same. Even their websites were identical. I'm pretty sure that realization is what spurred Best Buy to leave Vancouver Island a while ago. In Victoria, the Futureshop and Best Buy were in the same damn mall.

    Business wise, it doesn't sound like a bad idea, just a sudden shock. Personnel wise, it's never good when people lose their jobs to redundancy. And finding out because the fucking building was locked is universally stupid, seriously.

    There were definitely redundancies. There's a commercial center around here where there were literally a Futureshop and a BestBuy across from each other.

    The main issue here is how they're handling this. If they announced that they were folding Futureshop into BestBuy and closing some stores over the course of a few months, it would still be a bummer and very unfortunate for those losing their jobs, but it wouldn't be as bad as learning you're unemployed by showing up to work and finding the place locked with a sign.

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    TubularLuggageTubularLuggage Registered User regular
    edited March 2015
    In other news, an airliner carrying 138 people crash landed at Halifax Stanfield International Airport early this morning. Fortunately, there were no casualties, and it sounds like any injuries were minor. Still, a pretty shocking piece of news to wake up to.
    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/air-canada-ac624-crash-airline-says-weather-conditions-were-safe-1.3013979

    TubularLuggage on
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    Edith_Bagot-DixEdith_Bagot-Dix Registered User regular
    It never made much sense to me why both stores existed when they were almost literally exactly the same. Even their websites were identical. I'm pretty sure that realization is what spurred Best Buy to leave Vancouver Island a while ago. In Victoria, the Futureshop and Best Buy were in the same damn mall.

    Business wise, it doesn't sound like a bad idea, just a sudden shock. Personnel wise, it's never good when people lose their jobs to redundancy. And finding out because the fucking building was locked is universally stupid, seriously.

    There were definitely redundancies. There's a commercial center around here where there were literally a Futureshop and a BestBuy across from each other.

    The main issue here is how they're handling this. If they announced that they were folding Futureshop into BestBuy and closing some stores over the course of a few months, it would still be a bummer and very unfortunate for those losing their jobs, but it wouldn't be as bad as learning you're unemployed by showing up to work and finding the place locked with a sign.

    That same situation (Futureshop and Best Buy next to each other) is replicated all over the country. I don't think this is really a huge surprise, but I can't think of why they wouldn't have had a more structured approach to the employee layoffs. I doubt very much they're planning to pay rent on vacant stores for months, so their landlords must have known which stores were closing well ahead of time and factored that in to leasing plans.



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    The WolfmanThe Wolfman Registered User regular
    I would have assumed there had to be a more structured approach, given how they're doing this. Closing the store for a week so you can replace all the red signs with yellow ones makes sense, and the kind of thing employees would have to know about.

    That they didn't... Christ on a crutch...

    "The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
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    KetBraKetBra Dressed Ridiculously Registered User regular
    Yeah that's a super shitty move on their part.

    KGMvDLc.jpg?1
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    DanHibikiDanHibiki Registered User regular
    It would have made a ton more sense if they had done this slowly over the course of the last few years. It's not like any of this was a huge surprise to them.

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    DaimarDaimar A Million Feet Tall of Awesome Registered User regular
    DanHibiki wrote: »
    It would have made a ton more sense if they had done this slowly over the course of the last few years. It's not like any of this was a huge surprise to them.

    On the flip side, it's hard to retain and attract workers if people know the store is going to close. Not saying that it's right, but the company sees this coming and makes the decision to spring it on everyone since as soon as they announce they're going to lose a significant number of staff and will have a tough time hiring someone even if the store isn't going to close for another 12-18 months.

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    Caulk Bite 6Caulk Bite 6 One of the multitude of Dans infesting this place Registered User regular
    Daimar wrote: »
    DanHibiki wrote: »
    It would have made a ton more sense if they had done this slowly over the course of the last few years. It's not like any of this was a huge surprise to them.

    On the flip side, it's hard to retain and attract workers if people know the store is going to close. Not saying that it's right, but the company sees this coming and makes the decision to spring it on everyone since as soon as they announce they're going to lose a significant number of staff and will have a tough time hiring someone even if the store isn't going to close for another 12-18 months.

    yeah, but that ignores the fact that there's still people who would need the work badly enough to just deal with the finite employment time. there's not really a shortage of those.

    kind of a moot point to argue, I know.

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