Super Metroid is very easy to get hopelessly lost in and after an hour or so trying to figure out where I'm supposed to be going I threw in the towel.
Super Metroid was also surprisingly easy to get stuck in. When I was replaying it for the first time in about 20 years I picked the wrong path after killing Crocomire and didn't get the Power Bombs which were needed to progress. The only way back up there without them was with multiple consecutive wall jumps off of the same wall.
Wasn't that the part where there were those alien things that kept using the wall jump? I think a lot of the game design back then just gave you clues, like how the map in that glass tunnel didn't have boundaries on it which meant you should be able to get to connecting screens from it. Or maybe some powerup or something was teased and you just experimented with different things until it worked.
Super Metroid is very easy to get hopelessly lost in and after an hour or so trying to figure out where I'm supposed to be going I threw in the towel.
Super Metroid was also surprisingly easy to get stuck in. When I was replaying it for the first time in about 20 years I picked the wrong path after killing Crocomire and didn't get the Power Bombs which were needed to progress. The only way back up there without them was with multiple consecutive wall jumps off of the same wall.
Wasn't that the part where there were those alien things that kept using the wall jump? I think a lot of the game design back then just gave you clues, like how the map in that glass tunnel didn't have boundaries on it which meant you should be able to get to connecting screens from it. Or maybe some powerup or something was teased and you just experimented with different things until it worked.
Yeah, but the walljump in Super Metroid was hard to execute enough and different enough from walljump in other games (Mega Man X had solidified walljumping foor a lot of people like a year or two earlier) that it might not even process.
I mean, I realized that those guys were suggesting you should walljump. But I thought it implied you needed to find a walljump upgrade. I knew that when you did a quick direction change in the air Samus had a weird pose, but as a kid I never related that pose with "walljump now". And clearly holding against the wall and jumping was not working.
I think that we as gamers deserve more credit. I don't see as many opportunities to experiment in most games created today versus those made in the 90s, but I do have a lot of memories of me and my friends in the neighborhood all comparing notes and playing games together and doing odd stuff just to see what would happen. Edit: what I mean by that is it seems like modern games are more structured, and try to make clearer what abilities and items can be used where. The 'secret' stuff is just not as difficult to discover as it was. But then again, keeping stuff hidden like that for long is impossible with places like gamefaqs.
On another note I beat Momodora in about 5 hours. It's a little short for $10, but it was pretty fun.
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飛べねぇ豚はただの豚だ。
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
Axiom Verge went with that "classic" approach of never telling you jack shit about where to go ever and then hiding all the ways to get anywhere. I use quotation marks there because I actually mean "antiquated shitawful design", because crawling over huge portions of the map while trying all of your abilities on walls and shit is a garbage idea of "classic". It's definitely a miserable time-sucking approach that makes you leap for a guide instead of trying to figure out the game.
I had time for that crap when I was 9, not a couple decades down the road where I've seen dozens upon dozens of games that have far more clever, rewarding, and effective ways of letting you get somewhere besides "shoot every wall everywhere to find that one secret piece so you can actually finish the game".
I loved Super Metroid precisely because it wasn't a guided tour of Space Pirate Disney Land. Doing things "out of order", getting lost, all of that was part of what made it so great... but I can understand how that could get a lot of players frustrated.
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
I loved Super Metroid precisely because it wasn't a guided tour of Space Pirate Disney Land. Doing things "out of order", getting lost, all of that was part of what made it so great... but I can understand how that could get a lot of players frustrated.
MP1 gave you both options. Hit up a major point of progress, kill some freakish creature and pick up the upgrade, then wander for a bit until the game pointed you where to go next. And since that next spot almost always had a fat chunk of unexplored area in between it and where you were at a given moment, you were still exploring even on the way to the new objective. You had time to figure out things on your own, but none of this crap where you had to spend hours scrutinizing every pixel in every room to try and find a clue or access point.
Kinda fell apart in MP2 because of the maddening need to jump back and forth through portals placed in wholly unintuitive spots, and MP3 didn't really need it because it was far more a series of stages than one interlinked world.
There is definitely a way to handle exploration and objectives without either leaving a player completely lost without a guide or holding them by the hand. Hell, I got 100% on Arkham Asylum twice and never so much as googled a hint, because the game did such a great job of giving you the info to figure out everything yourself within the game world.
I haven't played Arkham Asylum, but if it's anything like Shadows of Mordor, Tomb Raider, or even Doom where you get a minimap that shows hints on where to look for all the miss-able items, then that's the kind of hand-holding design I'm talking about. I enjoyed the hell out of all those games, but sometimes figuring out really obtuse shit on your own is the 'fun.' That being said I violently agree that things like that are best left to optional items.
Modern games take too much time and money to make to leave that stuff completely 100% hidden. Why waste money hiding shit in the game that only 10% of the people buying it will discover and then only 10% of the people who actually find it will actually do?
It's one thing to search for something on a 2D map, especially if it's on a grid system. There's only so much real estate to check and interact with.
It's another if it's a 3D world with full XYZ axis direction, and you have to find an easter egg in a space the size of your average shopping mall.
You don't have to tell me exactly where the item is. But I sure would appreciate some system that reduces the search area to 50 feet or less. I can have the fun of searching and finding something for myself, but without the pain of being forced to comb every last square hectare of space.
"The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
I'll give you a for instance. In the Tomb Raider remake, there's a point soon after you get the bow where you can shoot the... I forgot what they're called... weird shrunken head charms that are dangling from trees. I shot the first one totally organically, which is awesome; it was set up in an area on the visual horizon and there are a lot of other elements that funnel you into it. There are a few others too, like lighting the buddhas or shooting the mines. I thought it was well done, but I don't think they needed to be highlighted when you go into survivor sight. Being highlighted is screaming "interact with me in some way" which also has the effect of saying "if it's not hightlighted, you don't get to interact with it" which makes me tune out those elements. When a game has these clear boundaries between background elements and interactive elements it's not as interesting to me.
Plus, if you make those kinds of elements optional to the whole game, it removes the frustration for most players who don't want to go searching like I do. Maybe put some additional background info into it, but don't tie it into weapon power-ups (looking at you DOOM).
Those things in Tomb Raider could be nearly invisible, though. The only way I even found some of them was giving up and running around the area with the survivor sight on until I saw something glow.
In other words, fuck realistic art make shit stand out.
Super Metroid is very easy to get hopelessly lost in and after an hour or so trying to figure out where I'm supposed to be going I threw in the towel.
Super Metroid was also surprisingly easy to get stuck in. When I was replaying it for the first time in about 20 years I picked the wrong path after killing Crocomire and didn't get the Power Bombs which were needed to progress. The only way back up there without them was with multiple consecutive wall jumps off of the same wall.
Wasn't that the part where there were those alien things that kept using the wall jump?
It wasn't. That's in Brinstar, Crocomire is in Norfair.
Or maybe some powerup or something was teased and you just experimented with different things until it worked.
All I know is that I couldn't progress with the powerups I had, and walljumping off of a single wall is something I only knew was possible from speedruns. After getting back up there and grabbing the power bombs it was smooth sailing.
Rollers are red, chargers are blue....omae wa mou shindeiru
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
I haven't played Arkham Asylum, but if it's anything like Shadows of Mordor, Tomb Raider, or even Doom where you get a minimap that shows hints on where to look for all the miss-able items, then that's the kind of hand-holding design I'm talking about. I enjoyed the hell out of all those games, but sometimes figuring out really obtuse shit on your own is the 'fun.' That being said I violently agree that things like that are best left to optional items.
Secret items are only indicated when you go find the intel for secrets, so finding the info is part of the exploration; many of the puzzles are visual and not even visible without using a special vision mode. So when you go back and dig up the secrets, you can end up realizing you were fighting a mob of enemies right over the top of a big invisible puzzle. 99.999% of the secrets in the game are attainable entirely through info the game gives you, but without doing the super-obnoxious thing that Arkham City did where collectible items and Riddler puzzles are stacked fifteen deep per square foot and horribly, horribly visible everywhere, often ruining the scenery with big, bright, glowing question marks. And the info the game gives you still requires you to do a fair bit of searching when you get to the right spot without making you scrutinize every square inch of the game.
The one singular secret that Arkham Asylum does not reveal whatsoever is an ultra-super-duper secret room that requires you to stack three bombs perfectly on one spot to blow open a wall to have a pretty awesome easter egg that shows that Arkham City was going to be the next game. And there is no way to know it's there because it was supposed to be a really secret easter egg nobody was ever going to find until they actually looked in the game files.
Yeah, when I looked back at beating Super Metroid back when it came out, I have zero fucking clue how I ever managed to beat it. How in the world did I ever figure out something like using power bombs on a glass tunnel? There isn't even a scrap of a clue to do something like that, and it's absolutely necessary.
MP1 is the pinnacle of the series, not alone because it gives you just enough help to point you where you need to go but not nearly so much as to ruin the fun and mystery of discovery.
I dunno, the glass tube was a fun discovery for me. Glass is known for usually being breakable, so I tried to break it, and eventually succeeded.
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Once I learned how to bomb jump, I think I spent a chunk of time bomb jumping on the screen where you land your ship which had no ceiling. IIRC I found a shortcut into the haunted vessel: that was my greatest accomplishment in Super Metroid
飛べねぇ豚はただの豚だ。
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Warlock82Never pet a burning dogRegistered Userregular
I had completely given up on Metroid, I didn't even want another game, I was happy enough that some day, someone will make a game that's close enough. But now I really want one, all because of this:
Man I love that video. I'm always glad to watch it again. It captures the "exploring mysterious alien stuff" atmosphere you get of some of the games so dang well.
Also 2001 is one of my favorite movies of all time, so that helps too, heh.
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ThePantsAssociationA million could-be years on a thousand may-be worldsRegistered Userregular
edited June 2016
Here's a new Federation Force video (in Japanese) with an introduction to gameplay.
...so has anyone here played the Strider game on the PS3? I've had the demo forever, but don't know whether it scratches that itch, you know?
I've played the Steam version, and it was one of my favorite games of 2014. Revisiting old areas isn't as satisfying as in Metroid, and I really hate combat rooms, but does a lot of fun stuff! Like, you'll fight a single enemy as a mini-boss, and it's kinda difficult, but later you'll just be mowing through that kind of enemy without a second thought.
...I'm honestly having a pretty hard time remembering specific instances of other cool things, but I remember liking it a lot.
I had completely given up on Metroid, I didn't even want another game, I was happy enough that some day, someone will make a game that's close enough. But now I really want one, all because of this:
I had completely given up on Metroid, I didn't even want another game, I was happy enough that some day, someone will make a game that's close enough. But now I really want one, all because of this:
Fed Fo would be so much better with a slight reskin. Like, I can imagine them offering DLC that makes the marines look vaguely like the hunters from the Prime series and boom! Instantly more interesting.
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38thDoelets never be stupid againwait lets always be stupid foreverRegistered Userregular
I had completely given up on Metroid, I didn't even want another game, I was happy enough that some day, someone will make a game that's close enough. But now I really want one, all because of this:
...so has anyone here played the Strider game on the PS3? I've had the demo forever, but don't know whether it scratches that itch, you know?
360, and... kinda? It feels less Metroid-y to me, and more like mixing the best of arcade Strider with NES Strider, except at the cost of pretty much everything being isolated to one big city instead of various countries/environments
I reviewed it here a while back if you want something more thorough.
I had completely given up on Metroid, I didn't even want another game, I was happy enough that some day, someone will make a game that's close enough. But now I really want one, all because of this:
I honestly have little concern over it one way or another. The art doesn't bug me, I don't mind a lack of Samus -- I have no real judgment of it so far, preconceived or otherwise, save for somewhat enjoying the Blast Ball demo.
I mean, technically speaking, I don't think a truly unbiased review is possible for anything -- a review is an opinion, and opinions are generally shaped by one's experiences, and I've had those -- but I like to think going into this that I'll be as close as one can hope for.
I don't feel especially positive or negative about the game, and the Metroid brand on it is such a small factor in my mind at the moment.
Actually, maybe I do have one preconceived notion going in: it's being developed by Next Level Games, and I can't think of a game they've made for Nintendo that I haven't enjoyed, so there is that. At the same time, the only way to effectively maintain an unimpeachably perfect record is to quit while you're ahead, so who knows? FF may just be a bridge too far.
(Btw, not speaking for or against other reviewers going into this. All I can speak for is myself.)
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AxenMy avatar is Excalibur.Yes, the sword.Registered Userregular
I don't know what you are. I don't know what you want. If you are looking for ransom, I can tell you I don't have money. But what I do have are a very particular set of skills, skills I have acquired over a very long career. Skills that make me a nightmare for aliens like you. If you leave this world now, that'll be the end of it. I will not look for you, I will not pursue you. But if you don't, I will look for you, I will find you, and I will kill you.
A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
I don't know what you are. I don't know what you want. If you are looking for ransom, I can tell you I don't have money. But what I do have are a very particular set of skills, skills I have acquired over a very long career. Skills that make me a nightmare for aliens like you. If you leave this world now, that'll be the end of it. I will not look for you, I will not pursue you. But if you don't, I will look for you, I will find you, and I will kill you.
I honestly have little concern over it one way or another. The art doesn't bug me, I don't mind a lack of Samus -- I have no real judgment of it so far, preconceived or otherwise, save for somewhat enjoying the Blast Ball demo.
I mean, technically speaking, I don't think a truly unbiased review is possible for anything -- a review is an opinion, and opinions are generally shaped by one's experiences, and I've had those -- but I like to think going into this that I'll be as close as one can hope for.
I don't feel especially positive or negative about the game, and the Metroid brand on it is such a small factor in my mind at the moment.
Actually, maybe I do have one preconceived notion going in: it's being developed by Next Level Games, and I can't think of a game they've made for Nintendo that I haven't enjoyed, so there is that. At the same time, the only way to effectively maintain an unimpeachably perfect record is to quit while you're ahead, so who knows? FF may just be a bridge too far.
(Btw, not speaking for or against other reviewers going into this. All I can speak for is myself.)
I don't think being uninvested in the drama makes you more reliable, that's all. If you do have a review posted here, I'll probably be reading it though, I was just mildly bothered by the idea that other reviewers were unfairly biased but you were the fair one for *reasons*.
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AxenMy avatar is Excalibur.Yes, the sword.Registered Userregular
Thing with Fed Force is that it can be a perfectly good game, but it has been years and years since the last good Metroid game and years since the last complete-opposite-of-good Metroid game.
So to see them devote resources to a game that, for the most part, shares only a brand name with a beloved series that hasnt seen a new good game in over a decade will certainly put off many fans.
That is the hurdle facing Fed Force. It's not fair to the game or the devs, but that's the reality of it. Especially when you try to piggyback off an already established brand.
Even if you find an honest, unbiased review that gave the game good marks our own bias as fans might very well make us annoyed when playing an otherwise good game.
It's an ugly mess for all involved.
A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
I honestly have little concern over it one way or another. The art doesn't bug me, I don't mind a lack of Samus -- I have no real judgment of it so far, preconceived or otherwise, save for somewhat enjoying the Blast Ball demo.
I mean, technically speaking, I don't think a truly unbiased review is possible for anything -- a review is an opinion, and opinions are generally shaped by one's experiences, and I've had those -- but I like to think going into this that I'll be as close as one can hope for.
I don't feel especially positive or negative about the game, and the Metroid brand on it is such a small factor in my mind at the moment.
Actually, maybe I do have one preconceived notion going in: it's being developed by Next Level Games, and I can't think of a game they've made for Nintendo that I haven't enjoyed, so there is that. At the same time, the only way to effectively maintain an unimpeachably perfect record is to quit while you're ahead, so who knows? FF may just be a bridge too far.
(Btw, not speaking for or against other reviewers going into this. All I can speak for is myself.)
I don't think being uninvested in the drama makes you more reliable, that's all. If you do have a review posted here, I'll probably be reading it though, I was just mildly bothered by the idea that other reviewers were unfairly biased but you were the fair one for *reasons*.
There's something to be said for a willingness to engage with the game on its own terms when it's finally in front of you, doing your best not to let prerelease media, hype, fan discussion etc. influence your opinion.
Thing with Fed Force is that it can be a perfectly good game, but it has been years and years since the last good Metroid game and years since the last complete-opposite-of-good Metroid game.
So to see them devote resources to a game that, for the most part, shares only a brand name with a beloved series that hasnt seen a new good game in over a decade will certainly put off many fans.
That is the hurdle facing Fed Force. It's not fair to the game or the devs, but that's the reality of it. Especially when you try to piggyback off an already established brand.
Even if you find an honest, unbiased review that gave the game good marks our own bias as fans might very well make us annoyed when playing an otherwise good game.
It's an ugly mess for all involved.
I can't see this ending well at all.
The two outcomes I can see is it selling well ("looks like the consumers want more federation force"), or it selling poorly ("looks like the consumers don't want Metroid anymore.").
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Wasn't that the part where there were those alien things that kept using the wall jump? I think a lot of the game design back then just gave you clues, like how the map in that glass tunnel didn't have boundaries on it which meant you should be able to get to connecting screens from it. Or maybe some powerup or something was teased and you just experimented with different things until it worked.
Yeah, but the walljump in Super Metroid was hard to execute enough and different enough from walljump in other games (Mega Man X had solidified walljumping foor a lot of people like a year or two earlier) that it might not even process.
I mean, I realized that those guys were suggesting you should walljump. But I thought it implied you needed to find a walljump upgrade. I knew that when you did a quick direction change in the air Samus had a weird pose, but as a kid I never related that pose with "walljump now". And clearly holding against the wall and jumping was not working.
On another note I beat Momodora in about 5 hours. It's a little short for $10, but it was pretty fun.
I had time for that crap when I was 9, not a couple decades down the road where I've seen dozens upon dozens of games that have far more clever, rewarding, and effective ways of letting you get somewhere besides "shoot every wall everywhere to find that one secret piece so you can actually finish the game".
MP1 gave you both options. Hit up a major point of progress, kill some freakish creature and pick up the upgrade, then wander for a bit until the game pointed you where to go next. And since that next spot almost always had a fat chunk of unexplored area in between it and where you were at a given moment, you were still exploring even on the way to the new objective. You had time to figure out things on your own, but none of this crap where you had to spend hours scrutinizing every pixel in every room to try and find a clue or access point.
Kinda fell apart in MP2 because of the maddening need to jump back and forth through portals placed in wholly unintuitive spots, and MP3 didn't really need it because it was far more a series of stages than one interlinked world.
There is definitely a way to handle exploration and objectives without either leaving a player completely lost without a guide or holding them by the hand. Hell, I got 100% on Arkham Asylum twice and never so much as googled a hint, because the game did such a great job of giving you the info to figure out everything yourself within the game world.
It's another if it's a 3D world with full XYZ axis direction, and you have to find an easter egg in a space the size of your average shopping mall.
You don't have to tell me exactly where the item is. But I sure would appreciate some system that reduces the search area to 50 feet or less. I can have the fun of searching and finding something for myself, but without the pain of being forced to comb every last square hectare of space.
Plus, if you make those kinds of elements optional to the whole game, it removes the frustration for most players who don't want to go searching like I do. Maybe put some additional background info into it, but don't tie it into weapon power-ups (looking at you DOOM).
In other words, fuck realistic art make shit stand out.
All I know is that I couldn't progress with the powerups I had, and walljumping off of a single wall is something I only knew was possible from speedruns. After getting back up there and grabbing the power bombs it was smooth sailing.
Secret items are only indicated when you go find the intel for secrets, so finding the info is part of the exploration; many of the puzzles are visual and not even visible without using a special vision mode. So when you go back and dig up the secrets, you can end up realizing you were fighting a mob of enemies right over the top of a big invisible puzzle. 99.999% of the secrets in the game are attainable entirely through info the game gives you, but without doing the super-obnoxious thing that Arkham City did where collectible items and Riddler puzzles are stacked fifteen deep per square foot and horribly, horribly visible everywhere, often ruining the scenery with big, bright, glowing question marks. And the info the game gives you still requires you to do a fair bit of searching when you get to the right spot without making you scrutinize every square inch of the game.
The one singular secret that Arkham Asylum does not reveal whatsoever is an ultra-super-duper secret room that requires you to stack three bombs perfectly on one spot to blow open a wall to have a pretty awesome easter egg that shows that Arkham City was going to be the next game. And there is no way to know it's there because it was supposed to be a really secret easter egg nobody was ever going to find until they actually looked in the game files.
I dunno, the glass tube was a fun discovery for me. Glass is known for usually being breakable, so I tried to break it, and eventually succeeded.
Like Mega Man Legends? Then check out my story, Legends of the Halcyon Era - An Adventure in the World of Mega Man Legends on TMMN and AO3!
Well, I know what two poses I won't be using :P
Edit: Wait, I just saw what she was doing in that first picture... 3 poses I won't be using :P Action-y gun shooty pose is fine though
Nintendo Network ID - Brainiac_8
PSN - Brainiac_8
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Add me!
Also 2001 is one of my favorite movies of all time, so that helps too, heh.
And the Samus amiibos make your mech look like Samus...
I've played the Steam version, and it was one of my favorite games of 2014. Revisiting old areas isn't as satisfying as in Metroid, and I really hate combat rooms, but does a lot of fun stuff! Like, you'll fight a single enemy as a mini-boss, and it's kinda difficult, but later you'll just be mowing through that kind of enemy without a second thought.
...I'm honestly having a pretty hard time remembering specific instances of other cool things, but I remember liking it a lot.
That was pretty good, but I always pictured Samus acting much cooler when under pressure.
Like a female space Liam Neeson.
She has a certain set of skills.
Now I'm sad that GIS couldn't find a Metroid/Taken crossover image.
Where in the world would you find those though? First time gamers?
360, and... kinda? It feels less Metroid-y to me, and more like mixing the best of arcade Strider with NES Strider, except at the cost of pretty much everything being isolated to one big city instead of various countries/environments
I reviewed it here a while back if you want something more thorough.
That would be me. I've been with the series since the beginning, but I'm honestly a lot less chuffed by FF than most (and had fun with the demo).
Of course, that depends on me getting a review copy.
Like Mega Man Legends? Then check out my story, Legends of the Halcyon Era - An Adventure in the World of Mega Man Legends on TMMN and AO3!
I mean, technically speaking, I don't think a truly unbiased review is possible for anything -- a review is an opinion, and opinions are generally shaped by one's experiences, and I've had those -- but I like to think going into this that I'll be as close as one can hope for.
I don't feel especially positive or negative about the game, and the Metroid brand on it is such a small factor in my mind at the moment.
Actually, maybe I do have one preconceived notion going in: it's being developed by Next Level Games, and I can't think of a game they've made for Nintendo that I haven't enjoyed, so there is that. At the same time, the only way to effectively maintain an unimpeachably perfect record is to quit while you're ahead, so who knows? FF may just be a bridge too far.
(Btw, not speaking for or against other reviewers going into this. All I can speak for is myself.)
Like Mega Man Legends? Then check out my story, Legends of the Halcyon Era - An Adventure in the World of Mega Man Legends on TMMN and AO3!
...And then I'll blow this planet up.
I don't think being uninvested in the drama makes you more reliable, that's all. If you do have a review posted here, I'll probably be reading it though, I was just mildly bothered by the idea that other reviewers were unfairly biased but you were the fair one for *reasons*.
So to see them devote resources to a game that, for the most part, shares only a brand name with a beloved series that hasnt seen a new good game in over a decade will certainly put off many fans.
That is the hurdle facing Fed Force. It's not fair to the game or the devs, but that's the reality of it. Especially when you try to piggyback off an already established brand.
Even if you find an honest, unbiased review that gave the game good marks our own bias as fans might very well make us annoyed when playing an otherwise good game.
It's an ugly mess for all involved.
There's something to be said for a willingness to engage with the game on its own terms when it's finally in front of you, doing your best not to let prerelease media, hype, fan discussion etc. influence your opinion.
I can't see this ending well at all.
The two outcomes I can see is it selling well ("looks like the consumers want more federation force"), or it selling poorly ("looks like the consumers don't want Metroid anymore.").
Or maybe I'm just sad because of Star Fox.