There's also the element of wasting resources on nothing. There are tons of "fan projects" that get 10% of the way completed, with some vertical slice type screenshots and stuff, and just fizzle out before too long. Why waste time and money getting lawyers involved when the project is likely not to amount to anything? That's why stuff tends to get shut down at the finish line.
I actually gave AM2R a full on review when it came out, right next to all our other Nintendo reviews and I doubt any more Metroid reviews will follow for a while.
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Things like AM2R I wish had just used a different name and used different assets and released on its own. That's way too much work of too high a quality to be wasted on an IP that you don't have the rights to and which will get shut down the second you finish it.
Yeah I get a lot of the reason it was done in the first place was because of passion for the property, but like... have some unrelated third party conveniently release a package containing sprites that make it look like metroid a couple days after it releases or something, I dunno. The best Metroid game that's been made in years and it isn't allowed to exist.
Fan projects should never set a release date and should just one day release it to the wild. Locking in a date for release is doing the lawyers a favor by telling them their time won't be wasted if they go after you since you're someone with a finished product rather than someone who has an idea and just finished reading a tutorial on ROM hacking.
The last non-remake 2D Metroid was Fusion in 2002.
It's been 15 years since the last game most people think of when they think of what they want from a new Metroid. Ten years since the last Metroid game that wasn't outright hated. Seven years since the last Metroid game what has you actually doing Metroid stuff.
No Metroid isn't the new normal, it's just normal.
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38thDoelets never be stupid againwait lets always be stupid foreverRegistered Userregular
Wow... not making any of us feel any younger Undead Scottsman. 10 years since last prime?
Well, the last game to use the Metroid name was released in 2016. It's been 7 years since the last one to star Samus, which is a distinction I sure as hell never thought would be needed.
I think it's funny that when Scottsman said the last game was 2010 my brain completely failed to register FF as even part of the franchise and I was like "yeah that sounds right"
While Freedom Force uses the metroid name, you're not running around doing Metroidy things in it. It's really a different game they slapped the Metroid name onto, and is totally not what most people were looking for when they wanted a new Metroid.
"Oh, so earlier today I got asked about Mother 3; maybe you can ask me about Metroid," he said jovially. "Look, again, I am proud as an executive with Nintendo to say that we look at all of the boards and all of the comments and we really have a good understanding of what our consumers want. And believe me, we take that to heart as we work to create content.
"So I have nothing to announce--here. But we are aware that there are some key IP that consumers just can't wait for the next true installment in that franchise's legacy. Suffice it to say, we're aware of it, and talk to me in a year and let's look back and see what's happened."
"Oh, so earlier today I got asked about Mother 3; maybe you can ask me about Metroid," he said jovially. "Look, again, I am proud as an executive with Nintendo to say that we look at all of the boards and all of the comments and we really have a good understanding of what our consumers want. And believe me, we take that to heart as we work to create content.
"So I have nothing to announce--here. But we are aware that there are some key IP that consumers just can't wait for the next true installment in that franchise's legacy. Suffice it to say, we're aware of it, and talk to me in a year and let's look back and see what's happened."
I'll take what I can get.
I'm going to read that as about as encouraging as non-news can get; not "we have no plans," but "we'd love to but those are smaller audience games so if we sell really well the moon is your pizza pie."
It sure is a thing to hear directly from Reggie that even Nintendo doesn't talk about the game which shall not be named.
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Warlock82Never pet a burning dogRegistered Userregular
edited January 2017
Honestly, the way I read that is "wait for e3" :P Or not even e3, but like, some "game announce-y event" later this year like a Direct. The way he's talking sounds like "We are working on these but I'm obviously not allowed to say that now. Perhaps by next year you'll already have your answer... wink wink nudge nudge" :P
(and I think Mother 3 is 100% an e3 surprise thing. Metroid I just think they have probably been working on but can't show yet)
H3KnucklesBut we decide which is rightand which is an illusion.Registered Userregular
edited January 2017
I feel like they're kind of in a pickle with Metroid. I mean, I'm not very knowledgeable about Nintendo personnel or internal culture, but my understanding was that they've generally made much more of an effort to retain and cultivate talent than most of the Japanese game companies. But Yoshio Sakamoto is basically 'the Metroid guy' iirc, and I seem to recall reading that most of what people hated about Other M's portrayal of Samus came from him, not Team Ninja. So, they know that where he wanted to take the series is not what the fans want. If they try to force the issue it's going to be bad for the corporate culture. Wasn't there internal strife over how Gunpei Yokoi was made the sacrifical goat for the Virtual Boy, and then a second wave of it after his death? For most of my life Metroid has been a glacially slow-moving series outside of that all-too-brief bright spot of the Prime series and the GBA games, but I can understand why Nintendo wanted to just let sleeping dogs lie for a good long while.
I feel like they're kind of in a pickle with Metroid. I mean, I'm not very knowledgeable about Nintendo personnel or internal culture, but my understanding was that they've generally made much more of an effort to retain and cultivate talent than most of the Japanese game companies. But Yoshio Sakamoto is basically 'the Metroid guy' iirc, and I seem to recall reading that most of what people hated about Other M's portrayal of Samus came from him, not Team Ninja. So, they know that where he wanted to take the series is not what the fans want. If they try to force the issue it's going to be bad for the corporate culture. Wasn't there internal strife over how Gunpei Yokoi was made the sacrifical goat for the Virtual Boy, and then a second wave of it after his death? For most of my life Metroid has been a glacially slow-moving series outside of that all-too-brief bright spot of the Prime series and the GBA games, but I can understand why Nintendo wanted to just let sleeping dogs lie for a good long while.
But... they already didn't do that. Freedom Force is the opposite of letting sleeping dogs lie.
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H3KnucklesBut we decide which is rightand which is an illusion.Registered Userregular
Gunpei Yokoi is also the original creator of Metroid, so that might be one reason why the series isn't a high priority for Nintendo.
As far as I know, Yokoi was the producer of the original Metroid, but it was Sakamoto's game design with Hiroji Kiyotake creating Samus and Makoto Kanoh fleshing out the ideas of the 'verse.
FF was also already in dev hell for three years by the time Nintendo rolled it out to thousands of dislikes. The wheels were in motion.
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
The Metroid series really is kind of boned by being in Nintendo's hands. It doesn't match their other flagship franchises in that it has a consistently mature tone, the last major entry was handled by a big Nintendo guy and generally rejected for a whole list of reasons, the last good major entries were handled by a studio from Texas of all places, and it's been a long-ass time since there was any actual attention for the franchise.
I honestly expect that the Metroid franchise is pretty much dead as far as Nintendo is concerned. They don't know what to do with it, they won't license it out because it's a Nintendo property, and they won't let anything be developed that isn't Nintendo-console exclusive. Far easier to just cycle through another run of rehashed and new/semi-new games with their other more well-known franchises until they get around to the next new console and start all over again.
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reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
Gunpei Yokoi is also the original creator of Metroid, so that might be one reason why the series isn't a high priority for Nintendo.
As far as I know, Yokoi was the producer of the original Metroid, but it was Sakamoto's game design with Hiroji Kiyotake creating Samus and Makoto Kanoh fleshing out the ideas of the 'verse.
This is the post-Virtua Boy reality. Before that, Gunpei Yokoi was always referred to as the main creative force behind Metroid.
Honestly? Maybe the series is just finished. Perhaps Metroid is the first series from the early days that's just going to be flat out retired. Why not? Let new series by other people pick up the slack.
I suspect the big problem is that we don't want device functionality shoehorned into Metroid, but Nintendo has a hard-on for making sure their games can only be experienced on their hardware. That whole "point at the screen to fire missiles" nonsense, or the debacle with Star Fox Zero - there's a culture of "it's better to do nothing than to make a simple sequel".
I suspect the big problem is that we don't want device functionality shoehorned into Metroid, but Nintendo has a hard-on for making sure their games can only be experienced on their hardware. That whole "point at the screen to fire missiles" nonsense, or the debacle with Star Fox Zero - there's a culture of "it's better to do nothing than to make a simple sequel".
Unless it's New Super Mario. Make 20 of those, who cares.
I suspect the big problem is that we don't want device functionality shoehorned into Metroid, but Nintendo has a hard-on for making sure their games can only be experienced on their hardware. That whole "point at the screen to fire missiles" nonsense, or the debacle with Star Fox Zero - there's a culture of "it's better to do nothing than to make a simple sequel".
Unless it's New Super Mario. Make 20 of those, who cares.
They always have something new, I think? Even if that "something new" is just a new powerup.
NSMB was the first 2D Mario in a long time (16 years between SMW and NSMB!) and had the whole mini/mega mushroom thing (as well as the rhythmic jumps and whatnot), NSMB Wii had the propeller hat and multiplayer, NSMB 2 had that weird focus on coins, NSMB U had the baby yoshis and 5-player multiplayer, and New Super Luigi U had the whole "must complete in 100 seconds" thing.
Nah they have trouble making Metroid because of wholly Japanese business methods, not trying to offend people that have done a bad job with the series, embarrassment, all that.
If it was as simple as wanting to be novel with it, here goes:
Classic-style 2D Metroid with updated graphics (as New Super Mario was to the old) with two new weapon upgrades and a "Chozo-pad" that Samus uses to turn on ancient machinery and control guardian statues to solve puzzles and defeat the Space Pirates!
or if they were feeling way more brave than physically possible at this point:
A third-person game, half beat-em-up, half platformer with lock-on shooting, the arm-cannon used to stun or weaken before beating on them. I'm thinking an open world that overlaps a hub area, with a lot of verticality.
You want a novel thing?
A. Pet metroids, use them to cause black outs, absorb the energy from a shield and eat through doors.
B. The ship has functions like a mining drill, can be piloted underwater, has a hair salon onboard to dress up Samus.
C. Anything it's a space exploration series
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H3KnucklesBut we decide which is rightand which is an illusion.Registered Userregular
edited January 2017
@Endless_Serpents Actually, rolling all the cool CQC/H2H shit she can do in Smash Bros into the actual series would be pretty awesome. Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
Edit: I'd also kind of like them to pick up where Fusion left off (which works with giving the game some brawler mechanics like Endless suggested, or being able to deploy Metroid minions). And replace the Fusion suit with this:
The Metroid series really is kind of boned by being in Nintendo's hands. It doesn't match their other flagship franchises in that it has a consistently mature tone
Nintendo has its mature franchises, Fire Emblem being the most prominent one.
But to an extent, even if it was unique in that aspect, it's all the more reason to cultivate it. They do their best to diversify and have at least one franchise representing most major game genres.
The Metroid series really is kind of boned by being in Nintendo's hands. It doesn't match their other flagship franchises in that it has a consistently mature tone
Nintendo has its mature franchises, Fire Emblem being the most prominent one.
But to an extent, even if it was unique in that aspect, it's all the more reason to cultivate it. They do their best to diversify and have at least one franchise representing most major game genres.
Fire Emblem is a subculture inside Nintendo. What with all the waifus and lolis and petting going on in there, a uh "different" subculture at that.
Yeah. Metroid may be dead, but if FE continues to go in that direction (some of which NOA thankfully cut from the global release of Fates), FE may be dead to me.
The Metroid series really is kind of boned by being in Nintendo's hands. It doesn't match their other flagship franchises in that it has a consistently mature tone
Nintendo has its mature franchises, Fire Emblem being the most prominent one.
But to an extent, even if it was unique in that aspect, it's all the more reason to cultivate it. They do their best to diversify and have at least one franchise representing most major game genres.
Fire Emblem is a subculture inside Nintendo. What with all the waifus and lolis and petting going on in there, a uh "different" subculture at that.
I don't see how that's much different from Metroid at this point. I mean this was from back in 2004:
The Metroid series really is kind of boned by being in Nintendo's hands. It doesn't match their other flagship franchises in that it has a consistently mature tone
Nintendo has its mature franchises, Fire Emblem being the most prominent one.
But to an extent, even if it was unique in that aspect, it's all the more reason to cultivate it. They do their best to diversify and have at least one franchise representing most major game genres.
Fire Emblem is a subculture inside Nintendo. What with all the waifus and lolis and petting going on in there, a uh "different" subculture at that.
I don't see how that's much different from Metroid at this point. I mean this was from back in 2004:
Did NOA cut a petting minigame from Federation Force? If not, no it's not that similar.
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AbsoluteZeroThe new film by Quentin KoopantinoRegistered Userregular
I don't think we are ever going to get another official 2D Metroid. My hope is that Retro has been working on Metroid V in the "First Person Adventure" style of the Prime series.
But really, I'm fairly certain Retro is either working on an original IP, or Donkey Kong Country Returns Again, Some More.
Lolis and emphasis on cute anime girls...it's not really as 100% mature as people like to think it is, especially when Sakamoto gets to design to his own vision. It's still thoroughly a Japanese franchise.
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Yeah I get a lot of the reason it was done in the first place was because of passion for the property, but like... have some unrelated third party conveniently release a package containing sprites that make it look like metroid a couple days after it releases or something, I dunno. The best Metroid game that's been made in years and it isn't allowed to exist.
But that every owner of retro IP was as rad as SEGA.
It's hardly comprehensive. I'd be more worried if we get past E3 without a mention.
The last actual Prime game was 2007.
The last 2D Metroid was 2004.
The last non-remake 2D Metroid was Fusion in 2002.
It's been 15 years since the last game most people think of when they think of what they want from a new Metroid. Ten years since the last Metroid game that wasn't outright hated. Seven years since the last Metroid game what has you actually doing Metroid stuff.
No Metroid isn't the new normal, it's just normal.
Hey guess what we're NOT gonna get at E3
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While Freedom Force uses the metroid name, you're not running around doing Metroidy things in it. It's really a different game they slapped the Metroid name onto, and is totally not what most people were looking for when they wanted a new Metroid.
I'll take what I can get.
I'm going to read that as about as encouraging as non-news can get; not "we have no plans," but "we'd love to but those are smaller audience games so if we sell really well the moon is your pizza pie."
It sure is a thing to hear directly from Reggie that even Nintendo doesn't talk about the game which shall not be named.
3DS: 0447-9966-6178
(and I think Mother 3 is 100% an e3 surprise thing. Metroid I just think they have probably been working on but can't show yet)
But... they already didn't do that. Freedom Force is the opposite of letting sleeping dogs lie.
As far as I know, Yokoi was the producer of the original Metroid, but it was Sakamoto's game design with Hiroji Kiyotake creating Samus and Makoto Kanoh fleshing out the ideas of the 'verse.
3DS: 0447-9966-6178
I honestly expect that the Metroid franchise is pretty much dead as far as Nintendo is concerned. They don't know what to do with it, they won't license it out because it's a Nintendo property, and they won't let anything be developed that isn't Nintendo-console exclusive. Far easier to just cycle through another run of rehashed and new/semi-new games with their other more well-known franchises until they get around to the next new console and start all over again.
This is the post-Virtua Boy reality. Before that, Gunpei Yokoi was always referred to as the main creative force behind Metroid.
Unless it's New Super Mario. Make 20 of those, who cares.
They always have something new, I think? Even if that "something new" is just a new powerup.
NSMB was the first 2D Mario in a long time (16 years between SMW and NSMB!) and had the whole mini/mega mushroom thing (as well as the rhythmic jumps and whatnot), NSMB Wii had the propeller hat and multiplayer, NSMB 2 had that weird focus on coins, NSMB U had the baby yoshis and 5-player multiplayer, and New Super Luigi U had the whole "must complete in 100 seconds" thing.
If it was as simple as wanting to be novel with it, here goes:
Classic-style 2D Metroid with updated graphics (as New Super Mario was to the old) with two new weapon upgrades and a "Chozo-pad" that Samus uses to turn on ancient machinery and control guardian statues to solve puzzles and defeat the Space Pirates!
or if they were feeling way more brave than physically possible at this point:
A third-person game, half beat-em-up, half platformer with lock-on shooting, the arm-cannon used to stun or weaken before beating on them. I'm thinking an open world that overlaps a hub area, with a lot of verticality.
You want a novel thing?
A. Pet metroids, use them to cause black outs, absorb the energy from a shield and eat through doors.
B. The ship has functions like a mining drill, can be piloted underwater, has a hair salon onboard to dress up Samus.
C. Anything it's a space exploration series
Edit: I'd also kind of like them to pick up where Fusion left off (which works with giving the game some brawler mechanics like Endless suggested, or being able to deploy Metroid minions). And replace the Fusion suit with this:
Nintendo has its mature franchises, Fire Emblem being the most prominent one.
But to an extent, even if it was unique in that aspect, it's all the more reason to cultivate it. They do their best to diversify and have at least one franchise representing most major game genres.
Fire Emblem is a subculture inside Nintendo. What with all the waifus and lolis and petting going on in there, a uh "different" subculture at that.
I don't see how that's much different from Metroid at this point. I mean this was from back in 2004:
not sure how that's equivalent.
Did NOA cut a petting minigame from Federation Force? If not, no it's not that similar.
But really, I'm fairly certain Retro is either working on an original IP, or Donkey Kong Country Returns Again, Some More.
Lolis and emphasis on cute anime girls...it's not really as 100% mature as people like to think it is, especially when Sakamoto gets to design to his own vision. It's still thoroughly a Japanese franchise.