If Valve had to issue refunds for failed early access titles, I bet the system would look wildly different
As is, the only accountability is on the consumer to avoid bad eggs
I mean, it's not like they give refunds when some big company releases a terrible or incomplete AAA game.
If you have a low tolerance for Early Access bullshit, it ceases to affect you immediately when you stop buying Early Access games. Why does something else have to change?
the problem is that the system has developed to a point where Early Access basically is the game as it's ever going to seriously exist, not just in the possibility that the game will never be in a finished state but also because the community might drop off before it gets there to begin with
on the one hand, I don't think early access games need an obligation to ever release, in-development products are in-development products and circumstances exist where finishing the game just isn't feasible, and consumers should be aware what they're getting into
but on the other hand this system is open to both intentional abuse and unintentional consumer unfriendliness, and probably needs some kind of reform one way or another, though I'm not sure what form that should take
specifically, a flaw I see with the refund idea is that a developer could just say "uh well this version is 1.0 complete thanks for buying!" and that 1.0 version is still kind of shitty but hey ea and ubisoft put out broken products too so don't blame the little guy right?
ideally certification would try to enforce a higher level of functionality, but, well
If Valve had to issue refunds for failed early access titles, I bet the system would look wildly different
As is, the only accountability is on the consumer to avoid bad eggs
I mean, it's not like they give refunds when some big company releases a terrible or incomplete AAA game.
If you have a low tolerance for Early Access bullshit, it ceases to affect you immediately when you stop buying Early Access games. Why does something else have to change?
the problem is that the system has developed to a point where Early Access basically is the game as it's ever going to seriously exist, not just in the possibility that the game will never be in a finished state but also because the community might drop off before it gets there to begin with
on the one hand, I don't think early access games need an obligation to ever release, in-development products are in-development products and circumstances exist where finishing the game just isn't feasible, and consumers should be aware what they're getting into
but on the other hand this system is open to both intentional abuse and unintentional consumer unfriendliness, and probably needs some kind of reform one way or another, though I'm not sure what form that should take
My big issue/worry with Early Access is that you're starting to get these games that are in early access, people are buying it to support it and help it become the game the devs want it to be, and then once the devs see the userbase start to drop off and they're getting fewer and fewer sales, they just decide, "well even if this does release, we've probably gotten most of the sales we can reasonably expect" and decide it's not worth it to actually finish the game.
And so far I think that has been unintentional and undesirable on the part of the developers, but it might start encouraging other developers to use that as their actual business model. Just keep it in early access, get as many sales as you can without having to make the final push to release (which is always the hardest part of development) then move on to your next thing. Not that this will become the norm, but it's just another thing to consider and have to worry about.
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PaperLuigi44My amazement is at maximum capacity.Registered Userregular
If Valve had to issue refunds for failed early access titles, I bet the system would look wildly different
As is, the only accountability is on the consumer to avoid bad eggs
I mean, it's not like they give refunds when some big company releases a terrible or incomplete AAA game.
If you have a low tolerance for Early Access bullshit, it ceases to affect you immediately when you stop buying Early Access games. Why does something else have to change?
the problem is that the system has developed to a point where Early Access basically is the game as it's ever going to seriously exist, not just in the possibility that the game will never be in a finished state but also because the community might drop off before it gets there to begin with
on the one hand, I don't think early access games need an obligation to ever release, in-development products are in-development products and circumstances exist where finishing the game just isn't feasible, and consumers should be aware what they're getting into
but on the other hand this system is open to both intentional abuse and unintentional consumer unfriendliness, and probably needs some kind of reform one way or another, though I'm not sure what form that should take
If Steam was less ubiquitous, I'd have less of a problem with them having more stringent certification standards, but as it is, Steam is too important a delivery mechanism for most games to build an audience without it. The people at Steam also have essentially no experience individually QAing a deluge of other companies' products. There's no good reason for them to start doing that.
They've already taken this entire class of products and set them aside to say "Hey, maybe cool it on buying this until it's done." I think that's enough to establish with consumers what they're getting into, and it's easy enough for me to communicate to less-savvy consumers ("Don't buy Early Access games. They're not done, and there's no guarantee they ever will be").
And this also affects like the bottom 0.1% of games/money in the industry. I think in terms of Industry Problems, Early Access Abuse rates very, very low (in terms of harm done to consumers/employees), whereas things like the scorched-earth development cycle employed by big studios (which STILL don't get QA right) don't get much play. Like, I think the way that the iTunes App Store is "curated" is a way bigger deal in the industry than what Steam's doing because it's so opaque and so fickle. Good games tend to find success on Steam, while many a unique concept was scuttled on the craggy shores of the iOS marketplace.
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PwnanObrienHe's right, life sucks.Registered Userregular
edited March 2015
Today in my "you can make a game that looks this good for $100" posts...
Blue mapHello darkness, my old friend.Registered Userregular
Cross-posting this from the steam thread. Indiegala has a flash bundle that has Freedom Planet and some other anime games for 2$. The sale is up for another 11 hours.
Link: https://www.indiegala.com/
the problems with early access (and kickstarter, for that matter) have always seemed to me like the kind of thing we can let the market sort out on its own
if something is too shit people can just stop paying for it and revert to the normal model of buying games
this is unlike any problem you might have, with, say, steam, where it has enough of a monopoly that if it's shit the consumer has no alternative
Cardboard Computer could take a goddamn decade for each release if they want to
A single act of Kentucky Route Zero is worth the 20 bux I paid
yeah i have a lot more patience for the company that is taking their sweet ass time because they're constructing the best narrative ever presented in an interactive medium than the company that makes reliably pretty good genre fiction
Cardboard Computer could take a goddamn decade for each release if they want to
A single act of Kentucky Route Zero is worth the 20 bux I paid
yeah i have a lot more patience for the company that is taking their sweet ass time because they're constructing the best narrative ever presented in an interactive medium than the company that makes reliably pretty good genre fiction
Have you called into their hotline? You should.
Kentucky Route Zero is to me what watching the Weather Channel on a busted T.V. was in my earliest years; a nearly inscrutable view of a real place, the attenuation of the medium only adding to the sense of mysticism.
A Talos Principle expansion, Road to Gehenna, was officially announced. Due out in Spring.
Independent developer Croteam and philosophical game label Devolver Digital have announced The Talos Principle: Road to Gehenna, an upcoming expansion pack for the award-winning first-person puzzler The Talos Principle. Set in the world of The Talos Principle, Road to Gehenna follows the narrative of Uriel, Elohim’s messenger, as he explores a strange, hidden part of the simulation on a mission of mercy and redemption in an attempt to free the souls of the damned at all costs.
The Talos Principle: Road to Gehenna will consist of four episodes that take experienced players through some of the most advanced and challenging puzzles yet. The Talos Principle writers Tom Jubert and Jonas Kyratzes have returned to pen the expansion and show players an entirely different side of Elohim’s world through a journey to Gehenna filled with new characters and a new society with its own history and philosophy.
“We wanted to revisit the world of The Talos Principle and deliver new characters and a new world with its own history and culture,” said Tom Jubert, co-writer of The Talos Principle. “With Road to Gehenna we have created an all-new narrative which both branches off from and expands the original character’s journey.”
The Talos Principle: Road to Gehenna is coming to Steam this spring while The Talos Principle and the expansion pack will launch on PlayStation 4 and the Nvidia Shield platforms later this year. For more information and updates on The Talos Principle follow @Croteam and @DevolverDigital on Twitter.
Seeing people's reactions to this isn't particularly surprising, but it's rather interesting, nonetheless. It's definitely a neat idea, I just wish the point of it wasn't lost on most of the people who really need to get it.
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MachwingIt looks like a harmless old computer, doesn't it?Left in this cave to rot ... or to flower!Registered Userregular
On the other hand it's not like I'm going to make time for anything but bloodborne for the next several weeks
This is me except Monster Hunter and I don't know when I'll escape its grip please send help oh god what day is it
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PwnanObrienHe's right, life sucks.Registered Userregular
So, I'm nearing the end of Hotline Miami and I kind of get where some of the complaints people have come from...
Then again I often wonder if these people are playing the same game I am. There are plenty of scenarios where you're put in a situation where you need to charge a room and melee a bunch of dudes. Tony, the author, the soldiers and the twins are all made to find yourself in situations where you just have to kick a door in and starts swinging at Russians.
This is a long shot, but: I'm trying to find the crowdfunding page for a game I came across sometime in the last couple of weeks, didn't bookmark, and now can't find. I thought it was on Kickstarter, but I can't find it there, so it must have been on another crowdfunding site (unless it failed, but I don't think it was that close to ending).
The game is an RPG with a setting inspired, I think, by ancient China - at the very least, it has an Asian flavor. You control a party of six characters who are part of a special class of people who function as diplomats, warriors, and sorcerers. The idea is that you shape the future of the empire by whatever means you choose - violence, manipulation, etc. The characters are described as having elemental powers, or being able to harness the elements, or something like that.
...and that's all I can remember. I know it's not much to go on, but if that rings a bell with anyone, please let me know
I was checking out Axiom Verge's Facebook page earlier today and saw on their profile that the game is slated to release on the PC sometime in May! That's good news because I wasn't sure if it was even going to be coming to PC or not!
Posts
the problem is that the system has developed to a point where Early Access basically is the game as it's ever going to seriously exist, not just in the possibility that the game will never be in a finished state but also because the community might drop off before it gets there to begin with
on the one hand, I don't think early access games need an obligation to ever release, in-development products are in-development products and circumstances exist where finishing the game just isn't feasible, and consumers should be aware what they're getting into
but on the other hand this system is open to both intentional abuse and unintentional consumer unfriendliness, and probably needs some kind of reform one way or another, though I'm not sure what form that should take
ideally certification would try to enforce a higher level of functionality, but, well
My big issue/worry with Early Access is that you're starting to get these games that are in early access, people are buying it to support it and help it become the game the devs want it to be, and then once the devs see the userbase start to drop off and they're getting fewer and fewer sales, they just decide, "well even if this does release, we've probably gotten most of the sales we can reasonably expect" and decide it's not worth it to actually finish the game.
And so far I think that has been unintentional and undesirable on the part of the developers, but it might start encouraging other developers to use that as their actual business model. Just keep it in early access, get as many sales as you can without having to make the final push to release (which is always the hardest part of development) then move on to your next thing. Not that this will become the norm, but it's just another thing to consider and have to worry about.
You're not wrong about their scheduling issues, but episode 2 of Borderlands came out last week and episode 3 of GOT is out this week.
If Steam was less ubiquitous, I'd have less of a problem with them having more stringent certification standards, but as it is, Steam is too important a delivery mechanism for most games to build an audience without it. The people at Steam also have essentially no experience individually QAing a deluge of other companies' products. There's no good reason for them to start doing that.
They've already taken this entire class of products and set them aside to say "Hey, maybe cool it on buying this until it's done." I think that's enough to establish with consumers what they're getting into, and it's easy enough for me to communicate to less-savvy consumers ("Don't buy Early Access games. They're not done, and there's no guarantee they ever will be").
And this also affects like the bottom 0.1% of games/money in the industry. I think in terms of Industry Problems, Early Access Abuse rates very, very low (in terms of harm done to consumers/employees), whereas things like the scorched-earth development cycle employed by big studios (which STILL don't get QA right) don't get much play. Like, I think the way that the iTunes App Store is "curated" is a way bigger deal in the industry than what Steam's doing because it's so opaque and so fickle. Good games tend to find success on Steam, while many a unique concept was scuttled on the craggy shores of the iOS marketplace.
Link: https://www.indiegala.com/
Cardboard Computer could take a goddamn decade for each release if they want to
A single act of Kentucky Route Zero is worth the 20 bux I paid
if something is too shit people can just stop paying for it and revert to the normal model of buying games
this is unlike any problem you might have, with, say, steam, where it has enough of a monopoly that if it's shit the consumer has no alternative
Orcs Must Die: Unchained's closed beta is making sweeping changes with a big patch that just went live
https://www.orcsmustdie.com/#!/en/news/the-phase-2-patch-notes-are-now-available
it's basically if you took OMD's third person action tower defense stylings and turned it into a MOBA-ish multiplayer game
i remember this clearly so i dont think i imagined it
it was a dumb thing said by one guy in an interview, basically
yeah i have a lot more patience for the company that is taking their sweet ass time because they're constructing the best narrative ever presented in an interactive medium than the company that makes reliably pretty good genre fiction
http://www.audioentropy.com/
Man maybe when it stops being closed beta I can start caring, sounds kinda neat though.
Have you called into their hotline? You should.
Kentucky Route Zero is to me what watching the Weather Channel on a busted T.V. was in my earliest years; a nearly inscrutable view of a real place, the attenuation of the medium only adding to the sense of mysticism.
Seeing people's reactions to this isn't particularly surprising, but it's rather interesting, nonetheless. It's definitely a neat idea, I just wish the point of it wasn't lost on most of the people who really need to get it.
Steam ID - VeldrinD | SS Post | Wishlist
Steam
That is pretty fucking rad
FUCK ME WHAT
On the other hand it's not like I'm going to make time for anything but bloodborne for the next several weeks
http://www.audioentropy.com/
This is me except Monster Hunter and I don't know when I'll escape its grip please send help oh god what day is it
Then again I often wonder if these people are playing the same game I am. There are plenty of scenarios where you're put in a situation where you need to charge a room and melee a bunch of dudes. Tony, the author, the soldiers and the twins are all made to find yourself in situations where you just have to kick a door in and starts swinging at Russians.
That game is very exciting but I'm going to wait for not-early-access
I too shall wait with you on this.
The game is an RPG with a setting inspired, I think, by ancient China - at the very least, it has an Asian flavor. You control a party of six characters who are part of a special class of people who function as diplomats, warriors, and sorcerers. The idea is that you shape the future of the empire by whatever means you choose - violence, manipulation, etc. The characters are described as having elemental powers, or being able to harness the elements, or something like that.
...and that's all I can remember. I know it's not much to go on, but if that rings a bell with anyone, please let me know