why do people even queue if they're just going to troll. guy with level 8 hammer skin spent 5m inside the base, 3 minutes running into mid, siege in the middle of the lane and let himself get autoed down by tassadar, then the last 5m wandering around in the jungle of sky temple. i just don't understand.
it depends on the comps, but i have actually not been taking rejuv bubble lately. murky is surprisingly durable especially with his now monster health regen. it certainly isn't bad or wrong, but play style wise i feel like i can get away with not having rejuv bubble. then again i usually take speed bubble at level 1 so that plays into it.
edit to avoid the double-post: i coudl've sworn there was a blue post talking about performance issues in hots since the latest patch and that they were working on releasing a hotfix soon. but now i can't find it anywhere, i wanted to see if there was an update. anyone else see this post or am i imagining things?
it was about the suttering lag when sylvanas casts w or the horrible lag when the first temples spawn on sky temple. don't know if they have any fps stuff in there, maybe?
i do remember that being part of it. just can't find the actual post to reread it. i thought there were going to be some general optimization stuff but i could be wrong. i certainly hope there is because i can't really identify the root cause of these random 1k to 1.5k pings. everytime i think i have it resolved a few games later it pops up again.
So after like 5 games in the Tomb of the Spider Queen, I've come to realize that the winning strat is to summon the spiders then go straight for the boss. Whoever can get the boss safely usually wins.
I haven't played a whole lot this week, but I have yet to see this map.
why do people even queue if they're just going to troll. guy with level 8 hammer skin spent 5m inside the base, 3 minutes running into mid, siege in the middle of the lane and let himself get autoed down by tassadar, then the last 5m wandering around in the jungle of sky temple. i just don't understand.
Probably a bot? I have seen chars who behaved very bot like. I think the bot makers are preparing so they have a product on release. I think a leveled account with a ton of gold would sell somewhat nicely
My team:
Muradin (me)
Valla
Sylvanas
Gazlowe
Zeratul
Opposing team:
Muradin
Valla
Sylvanas
Gazlowe
Nova
We lost for two reasons: 1) Our Gazlowe was garbage. His opening move was to ride directly to the enemy gate/towers before minions spawned and got shot 3 or 4 times while he charged a laser blast at the wall. 2) Their Nova was much better about murdering soft targets than our Zeratul was.
Can't say that I have, but I also have not tried to use Try mode yet in this patch. I bought Sylvanas and immediately loaded into a Quick Match with her.
So Abathur can lay mines, tunnel in, and drop locusts such that they hit buildings from out of their range and minions don't hit them (at least on Sky Temple, and probably other maps). This will kill a core in about 40 seconds of not noticing.
So Abathur can lay mines, tunnel in, and drop locusts such that they hit buildings from out of their range and minions don't hit them (at least on Sky Temple, and probably other maps). This will kill a core in about 40 seconds of not noticing.
I feel like this shouldn't be a thing.
"Your Core is under attack!"
It's literally impossible to not notice this happening, even if Abathur found a way to avoid minimap detection in someone's base.
Also not entirely sure but I want to say you have full vision of your base at all times? Maybe?
Think this also requires taking the nest talent which is bad
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If you guys want a quick bit of silly fun, take Abathur into Try Mode, stand just outside their towers (or even tunnel to just past their keep), level up until you have ranged locusts + ability to spawn 3 locusts, then spam that ability and the reset cooldowns button (which also causes your trait to immediately proc again). Watch as the massive army of locusts nukes down the buildings and laugh.
So Abathur can lay mines, tunnel in, and drop locusts such that they hit buildings from out of their range and minions don't hit them (at least on Sky Temple, and probably other maps). This will kill a core in about 40 seconds of not noticing.
I feel like this shouldn't be a thing.
"Your Core is under attack!"
It's literally impossible to not notice this happening, even if Abathur found a way to avoid minimap detection in someone's base.
Also not entirely sure but I want to say you have full vision of your base at all times? Maybe?
Yes, you will probably notice. If he does this during an objective, though, you have to back immediately, potentially during a fight, to stop it. Even if you do that immediately and are somebody good at clearing waves, it will break through the shields on the core and deal at least 10-20% damage, because it only takes about five seconds of the locust group hitting to break the shields. All he has to do is warp in, activate his active, drop the locust spawner, and then start backing; you cannot punish him without a global ult or somebody standing inside your base when he attempts this.
Additionally additionally, he can do it to the top and bottom forts on Sky Temple, which don't regenerate and die to maybe two barrages of this if you notice quickly enough.
Think this also requires taking the nest talent which is bad
It's bad in general, but if it lets him win the game with no interaction, it's still pretty cheesy. Yes, I understand there are specific ways to counter this (namely, instantly kill him when he attempts to do this with a character who can also quickly clear the locusts), but the fact is that if he does go this route and you have a fort down, your only options are to fight everything almost 4v5 or try to push to win immediately (with somebody ready to back) because he can chip your core for 10% at minimum any time you decide to engage in a teamfight, and if you don't have very specific heroes you can't even punish him for it.
I feel like the repeated rise of those kinds of no-interaction, low risk winning moves is going to require a long term rethinking of the specialist concept.
I feel like the repeated rise of those kinds of no-interaction, low risk winning moves is going to require a long term rethinking of the specialist concept.
It's mostly just Abathur. Abathur has been king shit of questionable strat mountain for as long as I've been in the game except for that small window where murky was breaking the game.
which kinda makes sense because he's a really weird hero in terms of traditional design.
Eyeballing the map geometry, I think Abathur can hit every core, and every top and bottom keep, except the bottom keeps on Booty Bay because they're oddly designed; unlike every other keep, this keep is between its individual tower and the wall towers. Regardless of whether it is actually a good idea to dedicate your entire talent selection to this level of cheese, it would be incredibly frustrating to play against and absolutely deadly against any team not immediately prepared to counter it; at best it puts an incredibly short timer on your team to win a 4v4.5
I brought up playing against this Abathur strat earlier. It happened on Garden. He was able to blow up our top keep and got the core to about 70 before we really got hip. We made him pay and won the game. The thing is that when you dedicate someone to hunt him down you're not leaving your team 4v5 but only 4v4 because Abathur is no longer hatting or helping them in any way when he tries this. At best he can drop a monstrosity somewhere before going in. Once you get hip to what is happening you just check often for the mine sound/animation which becomes very predictable after you get him on a respawn timer. Once you see the mines you just hearth and punish. And punish we did...
Yes, you can punish him very strongly for it in some situations, but he's still Abathur; he can still help his team globally, so you're still down (somewhat) if you leave somebody behind to deal with Abathur; dropping his mines, porting in, and backing only takes a quarter of his time (since he can do so every 45 second). It's an Abathur with poor talents, yes, but it's still 4+Abathur v. 4 the majority of the time if you don't snipe Abathur when he goes in.
More importantly, even if it is punishable, it's incredibly unintuitive, extremely cheesy, and requires counterplay of dedicating one of your teammates to simply not playing. I don't see any way that strategy existing is super healthy for the game. I guess you can respond without being down a man in teamfights if you are constantly checking your base for mines and preparing to send somebody back, but that's well beyond the coordination of quick match teams and a far higher burden than any other character can put on your attention, which I think is enough to consider it toxic.
I think I have a pretty solidified build for Sylvanas:
Lv 1 - With the Wind (+25% range to Q). The extra range helps you bully other heroes with your free shots while you clear your lane. You'd want to keep a safe distance anyways. Lost Soul might be good if you focus all your talents into W and the other two might be decent in a siege build but I think they are all pretty niche.
Lv 4 - Envenom. Extra damage, 'nuff said. Ranger's Ambush would be the pick if it was more reliable at hitting the target you want. Overflowing Quiver(have trouble expending Q charge) and Paralysis (have trouble hitting multiple targets with your passive) solves problems that seasoned players shouldn't have.
Lv 7 - Follow Through. Q synergy and it gives you more sustained damage after unloading an entire quiver for burst. Unstable poison is not bad if you need to clear lanes vs other specialists but it does little for teamfights that aren't in lane. Life drain if you don't expect to be healed. Merc Lord is not fashionable now, might be useful if Posession gets better. Shade Form is nice if Ranger's Ambush was picked.
Lv 10 - Wailing Arrow. Possession is just not worth the talent point even in a siege build.
Lv 13 - Evasive Fire. I used to take Overwhelming Affliction but it never really got me out of tight spots. It might be good if your team has a lack of CC. Now I just unload my Q and reposition with +30% movement speed. I think you can even keep up the buff if you spam Q. Perma sprint! The other two are nice to consider in very specific situations.
Lv 16 - Cold Embrace. Damage buff that spreads? Sign me up. Blood for blood is a decent choice as well if you see yourself brawling. Wind runner is nice if you picked the other E talents. Will of the Forsaken is crazy good but you shouldn't need that many escapes unless you are getting targeted with diving ultimates.
Lv 20 - Deafening Blast / Bolt of the Storm depending on how safe you feel. Fury of the Storm is meh.
In some ways, Sylvanas feels a lot like Valla with this build, but with less burst damage and more utility. I still think her passive needs some nerfing.
In some ways, Sylvanas feels a lot like Valla with this build, but with less burst damage and more utility. I still think her passive needs some nerfing.
Hard to nerf it without changing it completely.
Maybe make it not shut down structures, but make them do 80% less damage or whatever instead.
Yes, you can punish him very strongly for it in some situations, but he's still Abathur; he can still help his team globally, so you're still down (somewhat) if you leave somebody behind to deal with Abathur; dropping his mines, porting in, and backing only takes a quarter of his time (since he can do so every 45 second). It's an Abathur with poor talents, yes, but it's still 4+Abathur v. 4 the majority of the time if you don't snipe Abathur when he goes in.
More importantly, even if it is punishable, it's incredibly unintuitive, extremely cheesy, and requires counterplay of dedicating one of your teammates to simply not playing. I don't see any way that strategy existing is super healthy for the game. I guess you can respond without being down a man in teamfights if you are constantly checking your base for mines and preparing to send somebody back, but that's well beyond the coordination of quick match teams and a far higher burden than any other character can put on your attention, which I think is enough to consider it toxic.
You're not wrong that it's a toxic strat and needs to be fixed. It's not fun to play against. I'm just saying it isn't that hard to counter either and is almost an All In strat that when countered properly leaves the other team in a bad spot.
Re sylvanas trait nerf: You could also have the rate of fire for structures slowed to X% so they aren't completely turned off.
Re abathur: At what stage in the game are we talking about? It sounds like level 13, but is the damage on the bombard locusts really that high that early in the game? The idea of burrowing in to drop down locusts has existed foe a while, as long as abathur has been around to my knowledge, I guess repositioning/extending the range on your base (3x keeps + core) could fix it? I assume there were intentionally designed blindspots though and blizzard wants to keep them. Changing his burrow to only be "friendly" or "neutral" territory may work but would be awkward.
Described as the way @milski made it sound I could see blizzard intervening as it sounds very familiar to murky 1.0 where teams had to dedicate a person to murky-duty. However the strat being more taxing on player coordination than any other hero I dont think is a valid reason to change a bunch of stuff (I'm general). I am of 2 kinda about it because the idea that a relatively easily counterable plan is so game ending can be interesting since the threat is always there and can allow for an unlikely comeback. I am not sure it would even produce a big feel bad moment (for me personally) since you do have the opportunity to address the problem. That bring said I am not all that excited by the idea of it in general so I wouldn't be opposed to it getting changed.
A friend gave me a beta key yesterday and I played co-op for a few matches until I unlocked the Daily quests. Really enjoying the game so far. 2 questions though. What is the best site to go to as a noob still trying to learn the game? I'm looking for general basic strategies for maps, and the do's and dont's that most players are familiar with, solid Talent Trees for each hero etc.
Also, will the heroes you unlock, and gold you earn carry over after the beta is done?
Though it sounds like a wonky strat, it's Abathur.
This sounds like the same as when Murky, Azmodan, Hammer (or heck, anyone) concentrate fully on backdoor sieging.
Team fights will be in favour of the team that has 5.
Basically, when you're playing against an abathur you have to play a little differently because these guys are special little snowflakes.
Same thing with hammer and the others. They're trading 20% of their effectiveness to focus on a different strat.
I really like it that not everything is about team fights, which is why I love specialists.
It adds a lot of versatility to the game.
I believe @Dibby is right in that you have full vision inside your main base. So like any RTS game, as soon as you see red in that minimap, KILL IT.
The strategy does not require Abathur to commit all of his time, so the team with Abathur attempting this strategy is not at a significant disadvantage.
Vision of your base doesn't matter, because Abathur will be gone before you are there unless you have somebody actively stay back or prevent him from backing with a global spell. Otherwise, he simply burrows in, drops locusts, and immediately begins to back, and you an only kill the locusts, likely after damage has been done.
It doesn't add anything useful to the game besides making one person back every 45 seconds and allowing Abathur to force one player on the enemy team out of the game just to "keep them honest," or if you want to try to keep everybody fighting, it requires you to check the base every two seconds to see the mines before they stealth.
So does anyone have the prefered Zagara talents? This is what I've been running, because I'm too lazy to try out Nydus tunnels. But I hate Devouring Maw 75% of the time. It's wind up takes forever and it's cooldown is just ridiculously long.
So does anyone have the prefered Zagara talents? This is what I've been running, because I'm too lazy to try out Nydus tunnels. But I hate Devouring Maw 75% of the time. It's wind up takes forever and it's cooldown is just ridiculously long.
Most of your build is pretty standard. People generally prefer Reconstitution at level 1 or Demolitionist. The former is a huge survival boost when laning. Competitive gamers seem to go for the latter presumably since it's tougher to keep creep up in those games.
Fury tends not to be favored on anyone. Bolt gives Zagara some much needed mobility.
Maw is a great talent but not the easiest to use. It really benefits from your opponents being distracted. There's a bit of suction to it so if they're in the middle of an animation when you cast it, they're likely to get sucked in even if they immediately start to move after. The damage on it sucks though and you don't necessarily want to throw it out first then if the rest of your team is also throwing out ults first thing since it would dampen the effect of a Strafe or Hyperion. Ideally you hit 2 or 3 opposing heroes with it while wailing on another out of it. Or you have team mates that can capitalize on the maw by doing things like Zombie Wall as the Maw is ending.
I think I have a pretty solidified build for Sylvanas:
Lv 1 - With the Wind (+25% range to Q). The extra range helps you bully other heroes with your free shots while you clear your lane. You'd want to keep a safe distance anyways. Lost Soul might be good if you focus all your talents into W and the other two might be decent in a siege build but I think they are all pretty niche.
Lv 4 - Envenom. Extra damage, 'nuff said. Ranger's Ambush would be the pick if it was more reliable at hitting the target you want. Overflowing Quiver(have trouble expending Q charge) and Paralysis (have trouble hitting multiple targets with your passive) solves problems that seasoned players shouldn't have.
Lv 7 - Follow Through. Q synergy and it gives you more sustained damage after unloading an entire quiver for burst. Unstable poison is not bad if you need to clear lanes vs other specialists but it does little for teamfights that aren't in lane. Life drain if you don't expect to be healed. Merc Lord is not fashionable now, might be useful if Posession gets better. Shade Form is nice if Ranger's Ambush was picked.
Lv 10 - Wailing Arrow. Possession is just not worth the talent point even in a siege build.
Lv 13 - Evasive Fire. I used to take Overwhelming Affliction but it never really got me out of tight spots. It might be good if your team has a lack of CC. Now I just unload my Q and reposition with +30% movement speed. I think you can even keep up the buff if you spam Q. Perma sprint! The other two are nice to consider in very specific situations.
Lv 16 - Cold Embrace. Damage buff that spreads? Sign me up. Blood for blood is a decent choice as well if you see yourself brawling. Wind runner is nice if you picked the other E talents. Will of the Forsaken is crazy good but you shouldn't need that many escapes unless you are getting targeted with diving ultimates.
Lv 20 - Deafening Blast / Bolt of the Storm depending on how safe you feel. Fury of the Storm is meh.
In some ways, Sylvanas feels a lot like Valla with this build, but with less burst damage and more utility. I still think her passive needs some nerfing.
That's the build I've seen most Sylvanas players using, with the occasional exception of Blood for Blood for burst over Cold Embrace. It sure is a lot of fun.
So does anyone have the prefered Zagara talents? This is what I've been running, because I'm too lazy to try out Nydus tunnels. But I hate Devouring Maw 75% of the time. It's wind up takes forever and it's cooldown is just ridiculously long.
Most of your build is pretty standard. People generally prefer Reconstitution at level 1 or Demolitionist. The former is a huge survival boost when laning. Competitive gamers seem to go for the latter presumably since it's tougher to keep creep up in those games.
Fury tends not to be favored on anyone. Bolt gives Zagara some much needed mobility.
Maw is a great talent but not the easiest to use. It really benefits from your opponents being distracted. There's a bit of suction to it so if they're in the middle of an animation when you cast it, they're likely to get sucked in even if they immediately start to move after. The damage on it sucks though and you don't necessarily want to throw it out first then if the rest of your team is also throwing out ults first thing since it would dampen the effect of a Strafe or Hyperion. Ideally you hit 2 or 3 opposing heroes with it while wailing on another out of it. Or you have team mates that can capitalize on the maw by doing things like Zombie Wall as the Maw is ending.
You can take defensive talents on a couple of tiers if an illidan is blowing you up or something, but yeah. Maw is awesome. It takes practice to figure out. It can be used offensively or defensively, to isolate heroes, to take healers out of a team fight, to save your butt while running away, etc. It's great.
Just be careful with it. I've lost so many teamfights due to Zagara mawing isolated enemies that are about to explode and let their team catch up and save them.
So does anyone have the prefered Zagara talents? This is what I've been running, because I'm too lazy to try out Nydus tunnels. But I hate Devouring Maw 75% of the time. It's wind up takes forever and it's cooldown is just ridiculously long.
Most of your build is pretty standard. People generally prefer Reconstitution at level 1 or Demolitionist. The former is a huge survival boost when laning. Competitive gamers seem to go for the latter presumably since it's tougher to keep creep up in those games.
Fury tends not to be favored on anyone. Bolt gives Zagara some much needed mobility.
Maw is a great talent but not the easiest to use. It really benefits from your opponents being distracted. There's a bit of suction to it so if they're in the middle of an animation when you cast it, they're likely to get sucked in even if they immediately start to move after. The damage on it sucks though and you don't necessarily want to throw it out first then if the rest of your team is also throwing out ults first thing since it would dampen the effect of a Strafe or Hyperion. Ideally you hit 2 or 3 opposing heroes with it while wailing on another out of it. Or you have team mates that can capitalize on the maw by doing things like Zombie Wall as the Maw is ending.
Yeah, someone said a few pages back that Zagara has a lot of builds, which seemed like an odd sentiment to me. IMO there's definitely a correct choice at every tier: Reconstitution, Envenomed Spines, Rapid Incubation, Devouring Maw, Grooved Spines, Brood Expansion, Bolt of the Storm.
I've said it many times, but it bears repeating. Especially as we get new players in here.
CC is king.
That's the reason why Maw is the correct choice for Zagara 100% of the time. It's the reason why Void Prison is the correct choice on Zeratul. It's the reason why Divine Storm is the correct choice on Uther. It's the reason why Judgement is the correct choice on Tyrael. It's the reason why stuns are almost universally the best option on any character.
Yes, there are a couple notable exceptions to this rule, such as Arthas. In Arthas's case, the survivability he gains from Army of the Dead outweighs any benefit he might gain from a massive lane snare. With Anub'arak, it's a tossup. He gets a fair amount of survival from his Swarm ult, but being able to lock a person out of a battle for like 8 seconds with Web Wrap is also huge. His is a case where you need to pick based on the needs of the game. Same with Stitches. Actually, with Stitches, both of his ults offer a form of CC. His Gorge ability allows him to completely remove a person from combat, whereas his slime serves as a very good area snare. This is another case where the best choice is determined on a per-match basis.
But in general, it is better to take CC than not. And the margin by which it's better is quite huge.
I've said it many times, but it bears repeating. Especially as we get new players in here.
CC is king.
That's the reason why Maw is the correct choice for Zagara 100% of the time. It's the reason why Void Prison is the correct choice on Zeratul. It's the reason why Divine Storm is the correct choice on Uther. It's the reason why Judgement is the correct choice on Tyrael. It's the reason why stuns are almost universally the best option on any character.
Yes, there are a couple notable exceptions to this rule, such as Arthas. In Arthas's case, the survivability he gains from Army of the Dead outweighs any benefit he might gain from a massive lane snare. With Anub'arak, it's a tossup. He gets a fair amount of survival from his Swarm ult, but being able to lock a person out of a battle for like 8 seconds with Web Wrap is also huge. His is a case where you need to pick based on the needs of the game. Same with Stitches. Actually, with Stitches, both of his ults offer a form of CC. His Gorge ability allows him to completely remove a person from combat, whereas his slime serves as a very good area snare. This is another case where the best choice is determined on a per-match basis.
But in general, it is better to take CC than not. And the margin by which it's better is quite huge.
While I agree with this, the only questionable exception is Uther's ult. There are plenty of situations, and you see it quite a bit in pro play, where shield is a better pick. The reason for this, though, is counter CC. So it's picked as a response to your assessment in that CC is king.
I can see the reason for Bolt over Fury. I always liked it because it cuts the time to 1/3rd when I go around soloing the Merc groups.
I never take Demolitionist because I spam cast Baneling Drop pods on towers when I'm laning to soak up shots while I take out the creeps in the beginning.
Is the Mutalisk ever a good choice? I've tried it a few times, but the standard Hydralisk does so much damage when upgraded it doesn't seem worth it.
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Also a crapton of damage. It's really good for harassing/bodyblocking squishies that you want to delete from the fight.
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i do remember that being part of it. just can't find the actual post to reread it. i thought there were going to be some general optimization stuff but i could be wrong. i certainly hope there is because i can't really identify the root cause of these random 1k to 1.5k pings. everytime i think i have it resolved a few games later it pops up again.
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I haven't played a whole lot this week, but I have yet to see this map.
Probably a bot? I have seen chars who behaved very bot like. I think the bot makers are preparing so they have a product on release. I think a leveled account with a ton of gold would sell somewhat nicely
My team:
Muradin (me)
Valla
Sylvanas
Gazlowe
Zeratul
Opposing team:
Muradin
Valla
Sylvanas
Gazlowe
Nova
We lost for two reasons: 1) Our Gazlowe was garbage. His opening move was to ride directly to the enemy gate/towers before minions spawned and got shot 3 or 4 times while he charged a laser blast at the wall. 2) Their Nova was much better about murdering soft targets than our Zeratul was.
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All other modes are fine.
I feel like this shouldn't be a thing.
"Your Core is under attack!"
It's literally impossible to not notice this happening, even if Abathur found a way to avoid minimap detection in someone's base.
Also not entirely sure but I want to say you have full vision of your base at all times? Maybe?
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Yes, you will probably notice. If he does this during an objective, though, you have to back immediately, potentially during a fight, to stop it. Even if you do that immediately and are somebody good at clearing waves, it will break through the shields on the core and deal at least 10-20% damage, because it only takes about five seconds of the locust group hitting to break the shields. All he has to do is warp in, activate his active, drop the locust spawner, and then start backing; you cannot punish him without a global ult or somebody standing inside your base when he attempts this.
Additionally additionally, he can do it to the top and bottom forts on Sky Temple, which don't regenerate and die to maybe two barrages of this if you notice quickly enough.
It's bad in general, but if it lets him win the game with no interaction, it's still pretty cheesy. Yes, I understand there are specific ways to counter this (namely, instantly kill him when he attempts to do this with a character who can also quickly clear the locusts), but the fact is that if he does go this route and you have a fort down, your only options are to fight everything almost 4v5 or try to push to win immediately (with somebody ready to back) because he can chip your core for 10% at minimum any time you decide to engage in a teamfight, and if you don't have very specific heroes you can't even punish him for it.
It's mostly just Abathur. Abathur has been king shit of questionable strat mountain for as long as I've been in the game except for that small window where murky was breaking the game.
which kinda makes sense because he's a really weird hero in terms of traditional design.
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More importantly, even if it is punishable, it's incredibly unintuitive, extremely cheesy, and requires counterplay of dedicating one of your teammates to simply not playing. I don't see any way that strategy existing is super healthy for the game. I guess you can respond without being down a man in teamfights if you are constantly checking your base for mines and preparing to send somebody back, but that's well beyond the coordination of quick match teams and a far higher burden than any other character can put on your attention, which I think is enough to consider it toxic.
Lv 1 - With the Wind (+25% range to Q). The extra range helps you bully other heroes with your free shots while you clear your lane. You'd want to keep a safe distance anyways. Lost Soul might be good if you focus all your talents into W and the other two might be decent in a siege build but I think they are all pretty niche.
Lv 4 - Envenom. Extra damage, 'nuff said. Ranger's Ambush would be the pick if it was more reliable at hitting the target you want. Overflowing Quiver(have trouble expending Q charge) and Paralysis (have trouble hitting multiple targets with your passive) solves problems that seasoned players shouldn't have.
Lv 7 - Follow Through. Q synergy and it gives you more sustained damage after unloading an entire quiver for burst. Unstable poison is not bad if you need to clear lanes vs other specialists but it does little for teamfights that aren't in lane. Life drain if you don't expect to be healed. Merc Lord is not fashionable now, might be useful if Posession gets better. Shade Form is nice if Ranger's Ambush was picked.
Lv 10 - Wailing Arrow. Possession is just not worth the talent point even in a siege build.
Lv 13 - Evasive Fire. I used to take Overwhelming Affliction but it never really got me out of tight spots. It might be good if your team has a lack of CC. Now I just unload my Q and reposition with +30% movement speed. I think you can even keep up the buff if you spam Q. Perma sprint! The other two are nice to consider in very specific situations.
Lv 16 - Cold Embrace. Damage buff that spreads? Sign me up. Blood for blood is a decent choice as well if you see yourself brawling. Wind runner is nice if you picked the other E talents. Will of the Forsaken is crazy good but you shouldn't need that many escapes unless you are getting targeted with diving ultimates.
Lv 20 - Deafening Blast / Bolt of the Storm depending on how safe you feel. Fury of the Storm is meh.
In some ways, Sylvanas feels a lot like Valla with this build, but with less burst damage and more utility. I still think her passive needs some nerfing.
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Hard to nerf it without changing it completely.
Maybe make it not shut down structures, but make them do 80% less damage or whatever instead.
You're not wrong that it's a toxic strat and needs to be fixed. It's not fun to play against. I'm just saying it isn't that hard to counter either and is almost an All In strat that when countered properly leaves the other team in a bad spot.
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Re abathur: At what stage in the game are we talking about? It sounds like level 13, but is the damage on the bombard locusts really that high that early in the game? The idea of burrowing in to drop down locusts has existed foe a while, as long as abathur has been around to my knowledge, I guess repositioning/extending the range on your base (3x keeps + core) could fix it? I assume there were intentionally designed blindspots though and blizzard wants to keep them. Changing his burrow to only be "friendly" or "neutral" territory may work but would be awkward.
Described as the way @milski made it sound I could see blizzard intervening as it sounds very familiar to murky 1.0 where teams had to dedicate a person to murky-duty. However the strat being more taxing on player coordination than any other hero I dont think is a valid reason to change a bunch of stuff (I'm general). I am of 2 kinda about it because the idea that a relatively easily counterable plan is so game ending can be interesting since the threat is always there and can allow for an unlikely comeback. I am not sure it would even produce a big feel bad moment (for me personally) since you do have the opportunity to address the problem. That bring said I am not all that excited by the idea of it in general so I wouldn't be opposed to it getting changed.
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Also, will the heroes you unlock, and gold you earn carry over after the beta is done?
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This sounds like the same as when Murky, Azmodan, Hammer (or heck, anyone) concentrate fully on backdoor sieging.
Team fights will be in favour of the team that has 5.
Basically, when you're playing against an abathur you have to play a little differently because these guys are special little snowflakes.
Same thing with hammer and the others. They're trading 20% of their effectiveness to focus on a different strat.
I really like it that not everything is about team fights, which is why I love specialists.
It adds a lot of versatility to the game.
I believe @Dibby is right in that you have full vision inside your main base. So like any RTS game, as soon as you see red in that minimap, KILL IT.
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wra
Vision of your base doesn't matter, because Abathur will be gone before you are there unless you have somebody actively stay back or prevent him from backing with a global spell. Otherwise, he simply burrows in, drops locusts, and immediately begins to back, and you an only kill the locusts, likely after damage has been done.
It doesn't add anything useful to the game besides making one person back every 45 seconds and allowing Abathur to force one player on the enemy team out of the game just to "keep them honest," or if you want to try to keep everybody fighting, it requires you to check the base every two seconds to see the mines before they stealth.
http://www.heroesfire.com/hots/talent-calculator/zagara#gYTt
Most of your build is pretty standard. People generally prefer Reconstitution at level 1 or Demolitionist. The former is a huge survival boost when laning. Competitive gamers seem to go for the latter presumably since it's tougher to keep creep up in those games.
Fury tends not to be favored on anyone. Bolt gives Zagara some much needed mobility.
Maw is a great talent but not the easiest to use. It really benefits from your opponents being distracted. There's a bit of suction to it so if they're in the middle of an animation when you cast it, they're likely to get sucked in even if they immediately start to move after. The damage on it sucks though and you don't necessarily want to throw it out first then if the rest of your team is also throwing out ults first thing since it would dampen the effect of a Strafe or Hyperion. Ideally you hit 2 or 3 opposing heroes with it while wailing on another out of it. Or you have team mates that can capitalize on the maw by doing things like Zombie Wall as the Maw is ending.
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That's the build I've seen most Sylvanas players using, with the occasional exception of Blood for Blood for burst over Cold Embrace. It sure is a lot of fun.
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You can take defensive talents on a couple of tiers if an illidan is blowing you up or something, but yeah. Maw is awesome. It takes practice to figure out. It can be used offensively or defensively, to isolate heroes, to take healers out of a team fight, to save your butt while running away, etc. It's great.
Yeah, someone said a few pages back that Zagara has a lot of builds, which seemed like an odd sentiment to me. IMO there's definitely a correct choice at every tier: Reconstitution, Envenomed Spines, Rapid Incubation, Devouring Maw, Grooved Spines, Brood Expansion, Bolt of the Storm.
CC is king.
That's the reason why Maw is the correct choice for Zagara 100% of the time. It's the reason why Void Prison is the correct choice on Zeratul. It's the reason why Divine Storm is the correct choice on Uther. It's the reason why Judgement is the correct choice on Tyrael. It's the reason why stuns are almost universally the best option on any character.
Yes, there are a couple notable exceptions to this rule, such as Arthas. In Arthas's case, the survivability he gains from Army of the Dead outweighs any benefit he might gain from a massive lane snare. With Anub'arak, it's a tossup. He gets a fair amount of survival from his Swarm ult, but being able to lock a person out of a battle for like 8 seconds with Web Wrap is also huge. His is a case where you need to pick based on the needs of the game. Same with Stitches. Actually, with Stitches, both of his ults offer a form of CC. His Gorge ability allows him to completely remove a person from combat, whereas his slime serves as a very good area snare. This is another case where the best choice is determined on a per-match basis.
But in general, it is better to take CC than not. And the margin by which it's better is quite huge.
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While I agree with this, the only questionable exception is Uther's ult. There are plenty of situations, and you see it quite a bit in pro play, where shield is a better pick. The reason for this, though, is counter CC. So it's picked as a response to your assessment in that CC is king.
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I never take Demolitionist because I spam cast Baneling Drop pods on towers when I'm laning to soak up shots while I take out the creeps in the beginning.
Is the Mutalisk ever a good choice? I've tried it a few times, but the standard Hydralisk does so much damage when upgraded it doesn't seem worth it.