It's great that you think that MS was swayed by anything more than "our sales will crash and burn," but they really weren't
Consumers only have power when sales projections thinks they might not buy something
What in the world would you exactly expect consumers to do to move away from an all-digital future
Because there's pretty much nothing, realistically
MS tries to do things the consumers don't like. Consumers refuse to accept it. MS realizes that doing these things will hurt their sales. They don't do it.
So, uh, yeah, the future will only go all-digital if consumers are willing to accept it and if they are not then it is not inevitable because companies won't do it because they want sales.
Like what you are saying is literally what I am saying yet you are talking to me like I am a crazy person.
People are buying things digitally more and more at an exponential rate, and for many cool new games, it is the only way to buy them
So I mean, sure, you have a voice
But it's going to be drowned out by the millions moving toward all-digital
If you're saying that the whole of consumers as a collective has a voice, then that collective has spoken - they want digital
By the way it's super weird that PT is what prompted this discussion when
A) The reason PT had so much of an impact is because it was a surprise, a digital "here you go!", something that wouldn't have been possible with a physical release
A physical release of PT would never ever have been made anyways
It's great that you think that MS was swayed by anything more than "our sales will crash and burn," but they really weren't
Consumers only have power when sales projections thinks they might not buy something
What in the world would you exactly expect consumers to do to move away from an all-digital future
Because there's pretty much nothing, realistically
MS tries to do things the consumers don't like. Consumers refuse to accept it. MS realizes that doing these things will hurt their sales. They don't do it.
So, uh, yeah, the future will only go all-digital if consumers are willing to accept it and if they are not then it is not inevitable because companies won't do it because they want sales.
Like what you are saying is literally what I am saying yet you are talking to me like I am a crazy person.
People are buying things digitally more and more at an exponential rate, and for many cool new games, it is the only way to buy them
So I mean, sure, you have a voice
But it's going to be drowned out by the millions moving toward all-digital
If you're saying that the whole of consumers as a collective has a voice, then that collective has spoken - they want digital
Disagree that the collective has made that definitive a decision yet.
If it was so certain than the Xbox situation would have gone down a lot differently. There's still lots of people who don't even connect their game consoles to the internet.
also small developers cannot typically pay the cost required for physical media production soooooooooooooooooooooo
And they are more and more reliably becoming the place to go for good, hassle-free games
Because somehow they can actually make stable releases yet huge companies like Warner Bros. and Ubisoft and EA find a way to fuck it up at every possible junction
Like hey, there's a new patch out for MKX
Guess what, it's been breaking shit again :rotate:
Well maybe you PC peasants should have joined the console master race my MKX works fine
Hi, I'm UV, have we met?
I was actually talking about the PS4 version
Which had many of the same problem as the PC version, where the game was fully downloaded and installed yet certain modes and characters were not selectable
I was actually locked out of my PS4 version until they issued a patch which took a week
And apparently this newest PS4 patch they just put out this past Tuesday has been locking people out of the game in the G&T thread
Not to even mention the travesties the PC version has been committing
MS said more or less "While we're not technically going 100% digital, we're going to make your physical media so fucking impotent that you may as well go that route. And you better be connected to the net all the time, or we'll think you're stealing it after 24 hours."
The collective user base, and we're not simply talking about the nerds with the loudest voice, it was everybody, said they weren't going to buy an Xbone, and MS believed them so hard you can probably still see the tire treads outside their HQ where they backpedaled. And they're still feeling the sting of this today. Isn't the PS4 whooping them in sales?
So, there's your collective voice right there.
The Wolfman on
"The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
I strongly suspect that if PT were a paid product, and Konami wanted to pull it from the servers to prevent redownload to people that had purchased it, Sony would tell them to get fucked.
This isn't an indication of any greater problem with an all digital future, it's a weird outlier because it is a free "demo"
It happens with paid stuff sometimes, too.
Like Marvel vs. Capcom
People who bought it can definitely redownload it, that's what I'm saying. It expressly doesn't happen sometimes.
Even when stuff gets delisted, they have to keep that stuff on the servers for people people previously bought it.
The only reason this is any different is because it was a free demo.
They're outselling them, to be sure, when looked at on a global scale, but that's due to PS4 succeeding in markets where any MS products were never going to be a factor
The Xbox One is selling really damn well in the States
I'm sure much of this also has to do with the fact that it was $500 as opposed to the $400 PS4
Quick anecdotal experiment: Can anyone here name a single person they know personally that doesn't connect their console to the internet?
I strongly suspect that if PT were a paid product, and Konami wanted to pull it from the servers to prevent redownload to people that had purchased it, Sony would tell them to get fucked.
This isn't an indication of any greater problem with an all digital future, it's a weird outlier because it is a free "demo"
It happens with paid stuff sometimes, too.
Like Marvel vs. Capcom
People who bought it can definitely redownload it, that's what I'm saying. It expressly doesn't happen sometimes.
Even when stuff gets delisted, they have to keep that stuff on the servers for people people previously bought it.
The only reason this is any different is because it was a free demo.
There definitely have been games that people have paid for but can no longer download and I think even some they can longer play.
I might be thinking of some of Square's mobile stuff?
It's not a huge problem now but there's no guarantee that it won't be someday. Which means we, as consumers, need to be very careful about what we are willing to accept. If things do go all-digital, we should at least make sure and fight for digital marketplaces that protect us as much as possible.
They're outselling them, to be sure, when looked at on a global scale, but that's due to PS4 succeeding in markets where any MS products were never going to be a factor
The Xbox One is selling really damn well in the States
I'm sure much of this also has to do with the fact that it was $500 as opposed to the $400 PS4
Quick anecdotal experiment: Can anyone here name a single person they know personally that doesn't connect their console to the internet?
The concept of not connecting your console to the internet seems so damn foreign to me
If you're a games enthusiast, you're missing so many excellent digital-only title
If you're just into the stuff like COD and yearly sports titles, you're going to play that stuff online
Even kids, isn't online a pretty big part of Minecraft?
I know plenty of people who play the small digital stuff on like ipads and phones and shit but when it comes to their console they don't care about friends lists or online multiplayer or DLC they just want to shove in the Skyrim or Batman or Mass Effect disc and play the game.
There's more than enough mainstream disc games they want to play that they don't really pay attention to things like Axiom Verge or D4 and don't really even know or care about the existence of that level of game.
Man it is weird the blind spots that can happen in your brain
Now that I know I wonder how I didn't pick up on it through the entirety of New Order
It's really obvious
i've never dragon aged but my friend and i have (slowly and sporadically) been making our way through new order, it's a very impressive game
really enjoyin BJ's little selfserious soliloquys
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MaddocI'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother?Registered Userregular
The internet coverage in the US is largely fucking trash, and there isn't a huge incentive to fix that under the current status quo.
That is a pretty big hurdle for the all digital future.
There is no version of the future where we aren't all digital in like 20 years
I for one will be annoyed as hell if it takes even half that long.
it wont, itll be next generation
I was being conservative
I think you are maybe not considering the state of internet infrastructure on a global scale enough.
Here in Canada we have restrictive bandwidth limits and that's not going away anytime soon.
When I see a new game come out and it's like 50 gigs I pretty much have to buy it on a disc or decide to just not download anything else significant for the rest of the month.
If anything, the complexity and size inflation of new generations of games (and HD movies) will restrict the likelihood of an all digital next generation.
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Raijin QuickfootI'm your Huckleberry YOU'RE NO DAISYRegistered User, ClubPAregular
I have never redeemed a digital movie. I probably have 200 expired codes if I look.
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Raijin QuickfootI'm your Huckleberry YOU'RE NO DAISYRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Really, Geth? I would think you of all people would redeem your digital codes.
Next generation is 100% not going to be all-digital.
A big factor of the idyllic Digital Future is the fact that internet infrastructure in a good portion of the world is shit, rife with data caps, terrible speeds and nonsense like Comcast dictating what you can and cannot use your internet for.
That's not going to change in the next ten years and everyone knows that. So you start going digital-only and you start losing out on a lot of sales from people who literally cannot purchase and/or download your games. Since file size is becoming a gigantic issue as well, with games being like 40 gigs now and likely only increasing in the future. Even if sales are skewed like 40/60 towards digital, you go digital-only and at least some of those 40% are not buying your shit at all for whatever reason whether it be lack of ability or lack of want.
I have never redeemed a digital movie. I probably have 200 expired codes if I look.
Raijin!
Buddy!
Pal!
They're expired!
Well come on I'm sure some of them aren't!
They took a minimum of like two years to expire!
UnbreakableVow on
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Raijin QuickfootI'm your Huckleberry YOU'RE NO DAISYRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Talking about how the Internet infrastructure will be when the next generation of consoles is released is pointless because we're still a good 8 to 10 years from that point.
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Raijin QuickfootI'm your Huckleberry YOU'RE NO DAISYRegistered User, ClubPAregular
It was never really about the fact that people do not connect their consoles online, although that is still a significant number. It was about the quality of that connection. How often is it up, how fast is it, what if it's not the users fault they can't connect, ect. Live took a nosedive on I think Destiny's launch, that or some other big name AAA game. Even one of MS's own PR people (who I think got sacked later for the comment) responded to the criticism by saying "If your connection sucks, maybe you should move.". Which is about as ignorant as you can get.
A better question to ask is not "Will we be 100% digital in 10-20 years" but "Will the average internet connection even be able to handle it". Game sizes are 10, 20, 30, 40 gigs, and that number is rising every day. How many of you actually have the speed, bandwidth, and data caps to handle that on a regular basis?
The Wolfman on
"The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
Posts
People are buying things digitally more and more at an exponential rate, and for many cool new games, it is the only way to buy them
So I mean, sure, you have a voice
But it's going to be drowned out by the millions moving toward all-digital
If you're saying that the whole of consumers as a collective has a voice, then that collective has spoken - they want digital
I'm ok with not being able to play a game 30 years later because the disc eroded into dust.
I'm not ok with not being able to play a game 9 months later because the company pulled the digital plug.
A) The reason PT had so much of an impact is because it was a surprise, a digital "here you go!", something that wouldn't have been possible with a physical release
Disagree that the collective has made that definitive a decision yet.
If it was so certain than the Xbox situation would have gone down a lot differently. There's still lots of people who don't even connect their game consoles to the internet.
My Let's Play Channel: https://youtube.com/channel/UC2go70QLfwGq-hW4nvUqmog
And they are more and more reliably becoming the place to go for good, hassle-free games
Because somehow they can actually make stable releases yet huge companies like Warner Bros. and Ubisoft and EA find a way to fuck it up at every possible junction
Like hey, there's a new patch out for MKX
Guess what, it's been breaking shit again :rotate:
My Let's Play Channel: https://youtube.com/channel/UC2go70QLfwGq-hW4nvUqmog
My Let's Play Channel: https://youtube.com/channel/UC2go70QLfwGq-hW4nvUqmog
Hi, I'm UV, have we met?
I was actually talking about the PS4 version
Which had many of the same problem as the PC version, where the game was fully downloaded and installed yet certain modes and characters were not selectable
I was actually locked out of my PS4 version until they issued a patch which took a week
And apparently this newest PS4 patch they just put out this past Tuesday has been locking people out of the game in the G&T thread
Not to even mention the travesties the PC version has been committing
The collective user base, and we're not simply talking about the nerds with the loudest voice, it was everybody, said they weren't going to buy an Xbone, and MS believed them so hard you can probably still see the tire treads outside their HQ where they backpedaled. And they're still feeling the sting of this today. Isn't the PS4 whooping them in sales?
So, there's your collective voice right there.
Though I didn't know that about the latest patch. Jeez. Haven't played in a few days.
Get it together AAA devs.
Crossing my fingers Witcher and Batman are okay.
My Let's Play Channel: https://youtube.com/channel/UC2go70QLfwGq-hW4nvUqmog
People who bought it can definitely redownload it, that's what I'm saying. It expressly doesn't happen sometimes.
Even when stuff gets delisted, they have to keep that stuff on the servers for people people previously bought it.
The only reason this is any different is because it was a free demo.
Not really, no
They're outselling them, to be sure, when looked at on a global scale, but that's due to PS4 succeeding in markets where any MS products were never going to be a factor
The Xbox One is selling really damn well in the States
I'm sure much of this also has to do with the fact that it was $500 as opposed to the $400 PS4
Quick anecdotal experiment: Can anyone here name a single person they know personally that doesn't connect their console to the internet?
There definitely have been games that people have paid for but can no longer download and I think even some they can longer play.
I might be thinking of some of Square's mobile stuff?
It's not a huge problem now but there's no guarantee that it won't be someday. Which means we, as consumers, need to be very careful about what we are willing to accept. If things do go all-digital, we should at least make sure and fight for digital marketplaces that protect us as much as possible.
My Let's Play Channel: https://youtube.com/channel/UC2go70QLfwGq-hW4nvUqmog
I know a whole bunch.
Several of them are really nerdy types, too.
My Let's Play Channel: https://youtube.com/channel/UC2go70QLfwGq-hW4nvUqmog
The wireless in my part of the house is garbage and unsustainable for console requirements
I haven't gotten around to buying a USB adapter yet
If you're a games enthusiast, you're missing so many excellent digital-only title
If you're just into the stuff like COD and yearly sports titles, you're going to play that stuff online
Even kids, isn't online a pretty big part of Minecraft?
I for one will be annoyed as hell if it takes even half that long.
it wont, itll be next generation
I was being conservative
I know plenty of people who play the small digital stuff on like ipads and phones and shit but when it comes to their console they don't care about friends lists or online multiplayer or DLC they just want to shove in the Skyrim or Batman or Mass Effect disc and play the game.
There's more than enough mainstream disc games they want to play that they don't really pay attention to things like Axiom Verge or D4 and don't really even know or care about the existence of that level of game.
My Let's Play Channel: https://youtube.com/channel/UC2go70QLfwGq-hW4nvUqmog
That's still probably 10 years away
They still sell DVDs, and people still buy them. A lot of people.
i've never dragon aged but my friend and i have (slowly and sporadically) been making our way through new order, it's a very impressive game
really enjoyin BJ's little selfserious soliloquys
That is a pretty big hurdle for the all digital future.
people don't connect dvd players to the internet as a matter of course
itll be next gen default for all consoles
I think you are maybe not considering the state of internet infrastructure on a global scale enough.
Here in Canada we have restrictive bandwidth limits and that's not going away anytime soon.
When I see a new game come out and it's like 50 gigs I pretty much have to buy it on a disc or decide to just not download anything else significant for the rest of the month.
My Let's Play Channel: https://youtube.com/channel/UC2go70QLfwGq-hW4nvUqmog
They all typically come with a digital copy and I just watch that
If anything, the complexity and size inflation of new generations of games (and HD movies) will restrict the likelihood of an all digital next generation.
Raijin!
Buddy!
Pal!
Modern games are fucking HUGE.
And they keep getting bigger.
My Let's Play Channel: https://youtube.com/channel/UC2go70QLfwGq-hW4nvUqmog
They're expired!
A big factor of the idyllic Digital Future is the fact that internet infrastructure in a good portion of the world is shit, rife with data caps, terrible speeds and nonsense like Comcast dictating what you can and cannot use your internet for.
That's not going to change in the next ten years and everyone knows that. So you start going digital-only and you start losing out on a lot of sales from people who literally cannot purchase and/or download your games. Since file size is becoming a gigantic issue as well, with games being like 40 gigs now and likely only increasing in the future. Even if sales are skewed like 40/60 towards digital, you go digital-only and at least some of those 40% are not buying your shit at all for whatever reason whether it be lack of ability or lack of want.
Well come on I'm sure some of them aren't!
They took a minimum of like two years to expire!
I'll take a look sometime when I get a chance.
A better question to ask is not "Will we be 100% digital in 10-20 years" but "Will the average internet connection even be able to handle it". Game sizes are 10, 20, 30, 40 gigs, and that number is rising every day. How many of you actually have the speed, bandwidth, and data caps to handle that on a regular basis?