@Pony, I guess it all comes down to 1) Is she planning to transition and 2) is she OK being in a relationship where she is perceived and treated as a `gay cis dude'?
If the answers are 1) no and 2) yes - thats probably the only situation in which not talking about it might be viable, but even then it might be worth a chat.
Sad thing about being trans is that relationships get nuked
thanks
that's basically what I said?
like there's an extremely narrow band of circumstances in which her relationship stays intact and they kind of involve lying to him and to herself and living a lie and it sucks all around
Not sure it helps you Pony (since the transition is the opposite), but it's what I thought of when you posted.
yeah idk if this will be helpful for her
since the issue won't be her sex organs, it will be her gender identity
so it's like, the opposite problem of what that comic faces
This is something I've had to think about myself. I'm very rarely attracted to people whose features, in general, make people assume they're women. If I were dating a guy and he said "I'm actually a woman, bro," I'd be open-minded and give it a shot, even with transitioning. But that's the perspective of a gay guy posting in a trans thread. I get the feeling the average gay guy won't react with such an open mind, but that might be my own bias.
Not sure it helps you Pony (since the transition is the opposite), but it's what I thought of when you posted.
yeah idk if this will be helpful for her
since the issue won't be her sex organs, it will be her gender identity
so it's like, the opposite problem of what that comic faces
This is something I've had to think about myself. I'm very rarely attracted to people whose features, in general, make people assume they're women. If I were dating a guy and he said "I'm actually a woman, bro," I'd be open-minded and give it a shot, even with transitioning. But that's the perspective of a gay guy posting in a trans thread. I get the feeling the average gay guy won't react with such an open mind, but that might be my own bias.
yeah it's impossible for me to put myself in her boyfriend's shoes because like, I'd be fine with it but then... I'm bi? So... of course I'd be fine with it? Which is not a terribly helpful perspective! It doesn't feel necessarily fair to expect that from a homosexual dude.
And I kind of get the breastform thing, but progress of hormones will come down a lot to your existing body type. I've always had an endomorphic body, so I've had a decent return on hormones, but I don't know your situation. Hormones are for more than just tits though, just review Metalbourne's recent posts of tragedy
Oh, believe me, I know. But the other stuff isn't really a matter of public record, which is more where the stumbling block is. On a purely personal level, in a hypothetical world where I have the option of locking myself in my apartment and never being forced to leave, I probably would have started transitioning at least a year or two ago. But being obligated to go to work and deal with people regularly has a way of amplifying certain insecurities to the point where they can become outright debilitating rather than just highly unpleasant.
And I kind of get the breastform thing, but progress of hormones will come down a lot to your existing body type. I've always had an endomorphic body, so I've had a decent return on hormones, but I don't know your situation. Hormones are for more than just tits though, just review Metalbourne's recent posts of tragedy
Oh, believe me, I know. But the other stuff isn't really a matter of public record, which is more where the stumbling block is. On a purely personal level, in a hypothetical world where I have the option of locking myself in my apartment and never being forced to leave, I probably would have started transitioning at least a year or two ago. But being obligated to go to work and deal with people regularly has a way of amplifying certain insecurities to the point where they can become outright debilitating rather than just highly unpleasant.
Yah, I hear you, but the only way that improves is by pushing the envelope. There was a period during transition to full time, where at work I would sneak to the toilet every day for a quiet cry, but then got on with the day again.
The mood stabilising effects of HRT really shouldn't be underestimated regardless of the physical changes. For me things became easier to deal with, even things that before would just seem like a bottomless pit of `I CANT DO THAT'.
You're a self realised trans woman that feels she can't transition - I'd hazard a guess that this is close to your lowest point, even if all you mostly feel is numb. It was for me. But what you need to consider is that what seems impossible to you now is being influenced by that low. Current You is absolutely not prepared for stuff thats going to happen in 6 months, 12 months its true - but you're not that you yet, so why would you be already prepared?
Future You that started taking steps forward can handle that shit, and if she can't on the first try, she takes a deep breath and tries again. She's been progressing towards this for a while, she's been reading and learning, she's experienced what the first steps are like, and has an idea of how she wants to do this; the changes she's felt are affirming and she gets excited about all the small things. Future You has so much more experience and a better mindset than you, and more capability, because she started doing little things to move in the right direction, rather than looking at the destination and declaring it unachievable...but she won't exist if Current You doesn't do the things that Current You can do right now.
Don't worry about a year or two in the future, Current You needs to do what Current You can do right now. Future You can cope with the future. You will change, because you are making a decision to change.
Stuff for right now:
- Start voice work, even if you think you suck. You can do this online, I know there's a voice skypey thing through r/asktransgender (or there was), and if you have the dosh some voice therapists work online
- Maybe see a therapist to talk stuff through; I did, and the trans ended up only being part of what I discussed, because trans people pick up so much other shit (eg. coping mechanisms) that we also need to resolve in order to not hate ourselves.
- Buy a perfume. Its a little thing that smells lovely. Also good: pink socks. Little rebellions against gender definition. Test the world, and see how much they care what your expression is - usually its not much.
- Read and plan. Figure out when you would like to hit certain milestones and start working out how to get to them. It doesn't need to be a perfect plan, just something.
and there's heaps more things you could do right now without compromising your work life.
There are possible good ends to this. I won't claim it's common, or likely but there are success stories. When my current wife and I started dating I realized I had the same problem staring me dead in the eye. Eventually I bit the bullet and told her. It was awkward for a bit, but evidentally that was mostly because she was bi and trying to run from it. Funny how life had other plans sometimes. Anyways, 7 years later and we are stronger than ever. Keep hope alive until you have to just support her through the bullshit that is more likely.
"Talk to him" was the universal advice she got from everyone, so she did
and he was like "I love you, that's what matters" and they're going to continue on and see how things go. She says he's still processing it but she's hopeful.
so I'm super happy for both of them at this point. her family's a wash but her family was already a wash from years back when she came out as a gay dude. I was there for that, shit was ugly. so fuck those people anyway.
If it helps reassure people I'll point out that I was wearing a D cup bra before I came out at work and no one noticed. baggy shirts do a lot.
Baggy shirts are wonderful if you are ever feeling you just do NOT want people noticing your chest. I usually go with a jacket or hoodie when I am feeling self conscious enough, though it's getting way too warm for that. :P
If you ever need advice on hiding tits, I had that down to an ART! I had a size D chest before surgery.
If it helps reassure people I'll point out that I was wearing a D cup bra before I came out at work and no one noticed. baggy shirts do a lot.
Baggy shirts are wonderful if you are ever feeling you just do NOT want people noticing your chest. I usually go with a jacket or hoodie when I am feeling self conscious enough, though it's getting way too warm for that. :P
If you ever need advice on hiding tits, I had that down to an ART! I had a size D chest before surgery.
Awesome! I'm trying to stop doing that though, it's becoming a bit of a crutch for me lately. I don't usually hide, but sometimes I just want to be invisible. :P
"Talk to him" was the universal advice she got from everyone, so she did
and he was like "I love you, that's what matters" and they're going to continue on and see how things go. She says he's still processing it but she's hopeful.
so I'm super happy for both of them at this point. her family's a wash but her family was already a wash from years back when she came out as a gay dude. I was there for that, shit was ugly. so fuck those people anyway.
There are possible good ends to this. I won't claim it's common, or likely but there are success stories. When my current wife and I started dating I realized I had the same problem staring me dead in the eye. Eventually I bit the bullet and told her. It was awkward for a bit, but evidentally that was mostly because she was bi and trying to run from it. Funny how life had other plans sometimes. Anyways, 7 years later and we are stronger than ever. Keep hope alive until you have to just support her through the bullshit that is more likely.
Both of these posts really made me smile. That's awesome!
The mood stabilising effects of HRT really shouldn't be underestimated regardless of the physical changes. For me things became easier to deal with, even things that before would just seem like a bottomless pit of `I CANT DO THAT'.
Everything ameybes said is so spot on, but this bit in particular is really important! Less than two years ago I was convinced I would never transition, much less be openly trans. But the longer I was on hormones, the easier it was for me to just not care, because I felt so much better in general. I mean, of course I still have PLENTY of problems in life, but going on hormones really helped a lot of my self esteem issues. Not CURED, but helped.
"Talk to him" was the universal advice she got from everyone, so she did
and he was like "I love you, that's what matters" and they're going to continue on and see how things go. She says he's still processing it but she's hopeful.
so I'm super happy for both of them at this point. her family's a wash but her family was already a wash from years back when she came out as a gay dude. I was there for that, shit was ugly. so fuck those people anyway.
families often suck, but i'm glad the person she chose to be in her life is there to support her
if it was me, that would matter far more than just about anything else
+5
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SkwigelfPassed out in a cloud of farts and cigarette smoke.Registered Userregular
MichaelLCIn what furnace was thy brain?ChicagoRegistered Userregular
edited May 2015
Not that amazing or anything, but thought I'd share my daughter's toy choices today. They went to get a tiara for a Gnomes & Fairies craft thing tomorrow and she saw these too.
I want to see the costume that incorporates all of those things
Monster Truck epaulettes, shiny and chrome
+18
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NoSobriquetFormidable PhởSandcastle of SteelRegistered Userregular
edited May 2015
Something has been bothering me lately, and I don't know how to address it or anything so I'm shoving it in a spoiler.
I'm aware of the concept of autogynephilia being transphobic, heteronormative bullshit and all, but now and then when I think about my development as a sexual entity and look back on certain events or even how I handle things in the present, my sense of self gets knotted up. And this could be partially fear, as has been the seed of many things relating to being trans—almost like I'm subconsciously looking for outs, or viewing certain actions as making everything more real, "This is the point at which everything changes," or alternately invalidating it and sparing me—but maybe also perhaps shame, as I had a lot of issues surrounding sexuality during the time that I'm told I would have been thinking about it the most (abridged story because I don't know how best to get into it: years of abuse that ended when I was thirteen > hang-ups about what, if anything, I am in to > being incredibly sex-negative and misogynistic until junior year of high school, and disgusted with myself and others for having sexual impulses or attractions, nevermind the fact that I would still lean into my own in private).
I've thought back to when I first started dressing in private, but before it was something from which I derived comfort in the way that I do now, a sense of alignment. When I first started, it was pretty blatantly sexual, and I tried to find ways to make peace with and get off to my own body but through this lens of signified "femininity," and there's too much for me to unpack in regards to how sexual agency, broader self-image, and gender are or are not colliding with each other there. The reason why this stuff is coming back to mind and making me doubt myself, as I've been vacationing out of state and spending time around the more supportive constituents of my family, is because in trying to do more little things that I can to feel like I'm moving forward, I got the idea to buy my first panties as a means of necessitating that I learn how to tuck (no hormones presently). The problem is that in every attempt to do so, I cannot actually put them on without thinking about or seeing them on my body, and how my butt looks in them, and getting probably the most unwieldy erections I've ever experienced. So then I get frustrated because it feels like I can't possibly do this thing that I've arbitrarily defined as a step and think is in some way necessary if I want to get over the hurdle of purchasing and wearing a new wardrobe in public, and it reframes everything as more overtly sexual in a way that hasn't occurred since my early teens, and has me doubting my motivations.
I don't really know what to do from here, how I should interpret both the past and my present, or whether it's even anything to be concerned about outside of just my own difficulty.
NoSobriquet on
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MetalbourneInside a cluster b personalityRegistered Userregular
@NoSobriquet if there's one piece of advice I wanted to give people early in their transition, it would be to enjoy those feelings without guilt. Go ahead and pick out an entire outfit and buy it for yourself. If you have to, wear it in private. What you're going through is finding something that makes you feel attractive, desirable, and good about yourself. Those feelings are so strong because you've literally never felt that way before. Those are really good and pretty awesome feelings to have, so enjoy them. Bathe in them. Don't feel guilty or embarrassed. Just enjoy it
I can't find the source at the moment, so take this with a grain a salt, but someone did a study and the results were something like 93% of cis women in the study would have been considered to have autogynephilia.
+3
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ShivahnUnaware of her barrel shifter privilegeWestern coastal temptressRegistered User, Moderatormod
I can't find the source at the moment, so take this with a grain a salt, but someone did a study and the results were something like 93% of cis women in the study would have been considered to have autogynephilia.
I can't find the source at the moment, so take this with a grain a salt, but someone did a study and the results were something like 93% of cis women in the study would have been considered to have autogynephilia.
Hey so it turns out people feel sexier in bodies/clothes/appearances they are comfortable with!
and the problem with born this way narratives is there's no "time" you "should have been" thinking about this
that sounded shitty and dismissive
I just mean there's no checkmark 'time' that if you weren't fixated on your gender at that point you're just "faking" and autogynephilic or something
cabsy on
+4
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Autogynephilia? Self...something...love? Yet another concept I am unfamiliar with.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
Autogynephilia? Self...something...love? Yet another concept I am unfamiliar with.
basically it's dismissing transitioning as satisfying a fetish rather than a psychological need
So, a shitty gate-keeping tactic?
+22
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NoSobriquetFormidable PhởSandcastle of SteelRegistered Userregular
Thanks Emby, I needed to hear that. I'm actually not very familiar with people I know feeling or finding themselves attractive in any particular context, so it was easy to view what I've been experiencing/have experienced as an anomaly or lending to negative ideas.
Now if only I could get the tucking thing down so I can actually put on a pair of underwear; that would be cool
0
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MaratastikJust call me Mara, please!Registered Userregular
Something has been bothering me lately, and I don't know how to address it or anything so I'm shoving it in a spoiler.
I'm aware of the concept of autogynephilia being transphobic, heteronormative bullshit and all, but now and then when I think about my development as a sexual entity and look back on certain events or even how I handle things in the present, my sense of self gets knotted up. And this could be partially fear, as has been the seed of many things relating to being trans—almost like I'm subconsciously looking for outs, or viewing certain actions as making everything more real, "This is the point at which everything changes," or alternately invalidating it and sparing me—but maybe also perhaps shame, as I had a lot of issues surrounding sexuality during the time that I'm told I would have been thinking about it the most (abridged story because I don't know how best to get into it: years of abuse that ended when I was thirteen > hang-ups about what, if anything, I am in to > being incredibly sex-negative and misogynistic until junior year of high school, and disgusted with myself and others for having sexual impulses or attractions, nevermind the fact that I would still lean into my own in private).
I've thought back to when I first started dressing in private, but before it was something from which I derived comfort in the way that I do now, a sense of alignment. When I first started, it was pretty blatantly sexual, and I tried to find ways to make peace with and get off to my own body but through this lens of signified "femininity," and there's too much for me to unpack in regards to how sexual agency, broader self-image, and gender are or are not colliding with each other there. The reason why this stuff is coming back to mind and making me doubt myself, as I've been vacationing out of state and spending time around the more supportive constituents of my family, is because in trying to do more little things that I can to feel like I'm moving forward, I got the idea to buy my first panties as a means of necessitating that I learn how to tuck (no hormones presently). The problem is that in every attempt to do so, I cannot actually put them on without thinking about or seeing them on my body, and how my butt looks in them, and getting probably the most unwieldy erections I've ever experienced. So then I get frustrated because it feels like I can't possibly do this thing that I've arbitrarily defined as a step and think is in some way necessary if I want to get over the hurdle of purchasing and wearing a new wardrobe in public, and it reframes everything as more overtly sexual in a way that hasn't occurred since my early teens, and has me doubting my motivations.
I don't really know what to do from here, how I should interpret both the past and my present, or whether it's even anything to be concerned about outside of just my own difficulty.
If it makes you feel any better...I also started fantasizing of myself as a woman as a sexual thing...and it's grown and developed from there. So you're not alone in that aspect. And I struggle with some of these same feelings....I know I shouldn't feel bad for them, but they still sometimes cause me to doubt the validity of my identity. I know it's bullshit, my therapist agrees with me that it's bullshit...but it's still there. Part of it is from being raised in a very sex negative environment and part of it is my own fear of what the future might hold as I go down this path. But I keep pushing forward anyway....just little steps at a time.
+1
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TonkkaSome one in the club tonightHas stolen my ideas.Registered Userregular
I don't post much anymore, but I love and support everyone in this thread.
I did a factory reset on my phone and thought I had backed up all the pictures.
I didn't.
They're all gone.
No Google photos or Dropbox or anything?
Google practically needs a restraining order to not back everything up.
+7
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ceresWhen the last moon is cast over the last star of morningAnd the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, Moderatormod
I have been there Metal
And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
Posts
thanks
that's basically what I said?
like there's an extremely narrow band of circumstances in which her relationship stays intact and they kind of involve lying to him and to herself and living a lie and it sucks all around
there are no good options
only painful and worse :?
Not sure it helps you Pony (since the transition is the opposite), but it's what I thought of when you posted.
yeah idk if this will be helpful for her
since the issue won't be her sex organs, it will be her gender identity
so it's like, the opposite problem of what that comic faces
yeah, was never told to do this
my surgeon's recovery instructions were pretty light, tbh
not out of carelessness, or anything
Twitch (I stream most days of the week)
Twitter (mean leftist discourse)
This is something I've had to think about myself. I'm very rarely attracted to people whose features, in general, make people assume they're women. If I were dating a guy and he said "I'm actually a woman, bro," I'd be open-minded and give it a shot, even with transitioning. But that's the perspective of a gay guy posting in a trans thread. I get the feeling the average gay guy won't react with such an open mind, but that might be my own bias.
yeah it's impossible for me to put myself in her boyfriend's shoes because like, I'd be fine with it but then... I'm bi? So... of course I'd be fine with it? Which is not a terribly helpful perspective! It doesn't feel necessarily fair to expect that from a homosexual dude.
The mood stabilising effects of HRT really shouldn't be underestimated regardless of the physical changes. For me things became easier to deal with, even things that before would just seem like a bottomless pit of `I CANT DO THAT'.
You're a self realised trans woman that feels she can't transition - I'd hazard a guess that this is close to your lowest point, even if all you mostly feel is numb. It was for me. But what you need to consider is that what seems impossible to you now is being influenced by that low. Current You is absolutely not prepared for stuff thats going to happen in 6 months, 12 months its true - but you're not that you yet, so why would you be already prepared?
Future You that started taking steps forward can handle that shit, and if she can't on the first try, she takes a deep breath and tries again. She's been progressing towards this for a while, she's been reading and learning, she's experienced what the first steps are like, and has an idea of how she wants to do this; the changes she's felt are affirming and she gets excited about all the small things. Future You has so much more experience and a better mindset than you, and more capability, because she started doing little things to move in the right direction, rather than looking at the destination and declaring it unachievable...but she won't exist if Current You doesn't do the things that Current You can do right now.
Don't worry about a year or two in the future, Current You needs to do what Current You can do right now. Future You can cope with the future. You will change, because you are making a decision to change.
Stuff for right now:
- Start voice work, even if you think you suck. You can do this online, I know there's a voice skypey thing through r/asktransgender (or there was), and if you have the dosh some voice therapists work online
- Maybe see a therapist to talk stuff through; I did, and the trans ended up only being part of what I discussed, because trans people pick up so much other shit (eg. coping mechanisms) that we also need to resolve in order to not hate ourselves.
- Buy a perfume. Its a little thing that smells lovely. Also good: pink socks. Little rebellions against gender definition. Test the world, and see how much they care what your expression is - usually its not much.
- Read and plan. Figure out when you would like to hit certain milestones and start working out how to get to them. It doesn't need to be a perfect plan, just something.
and there's heaps more things you could do right now without compromising your work life.
There is no way you can't do this.
There are possible good ends to this. I won't claim it's common, or likely but there are success stories. When my current wife and I started dating I realized I had the same problem staring me dead in the eye. Eventually I bit the bullet and told her. It was awkward for a bit, but evidentally that was mostly because she was bi and trying to run from it. Funny how life had other plans sometimes. Anyways, 7 years later and we are stronger than ever. Keep hope alive until you have to just support her through the bullshit that is more likely.
"Talk to him" was the universal advice she got from everyone, so she did
and he was like "I love you, that's what matters" and they're going to continue on and see how things go. She says he's still processing it but she's hopeful.
so I'm super happy for both of them at this point. her family's a wash but her family was already a wash from years back when she came out as a gay dude. I was there for that, shit was ugly. so fuck those people anyway.
http://blindandlowvisionsupport.tumblr.com/
Help me out: http://www.youcaring.com/other/help-jordan-see-ireland-before-he-goes-blind-/336416/
Awesome! I'm trying to stop doing that though, it's becoming a bit of a crutch for me lately. I don't usually hide, but sometimes I just want to be invisible. :P
Both of these posts really made me smile. That's awesome!
Everything ameybes said is so spot on, but this bit in particular is really important! Less than two years ago I was convinced I would never transition, much less be openly trans. But the longer I was on hormones, the easier it was for me to just not care, because I felt so much better in general. I mean, of course I still have PLENTY of problems in life, but going on hormones really helped a lot of my self esteem issues. Not CURED, but helped.
families often suck, but i'm glad the person she chose to be in her life is there to support her
if it was me, that would matter far more than just about anything else
http://www.ontla.on.ca/web/bills/bills_detail.do?locale=en&Intranet=&BillID=3197
Could be done by Thursday.
Bill 77 In a Nutshell:
Makes the practise of gender/sexual orientation conversion therapy illegal/non-insurable for 'patients' under 18 years of age.
Tumblr | Twitter PSN: misterdapper Av by Satellite_09
Monster Truck epaulettes, shiny and chrome
I've thought back to when I first started dressing in private, but before it was something from which I derived comfort in the way that I do now, a sense of alignment. When I first started, it was pretty blatantly sexual, and I tried to find ways to make peace with and get off to my own body but through this lens of signified "femininity," and there's too much for me to unpack in regards to how sexual agency, broader self-image, and gender are or are not colliding with each other there. The reason why this stuff is coming back to mind and making me doubt myself, as I've been vacationing out of state and spending time around the more supportive constituents of my family, is because in trying to do more little things that I can to feel like I'm moving forward, I got the idea to buy my first panties as a means of necessitating that I learn how to tuck (no hormones presently). The problem is that in every attempt to do so, I cannot actually put them on without thinking about or seeing them on my body, and how my butt looks in them, and getting probably the most unwieldy erections I've ever experienced. So then I get frustrated because it feels like I can't possibly do this thing that I've arbitrarily defined as a step and think is in some way necessary if I want to get over the hurdle of purchasing and wearing a new wardrobe in public, and it reframes everything as more overtly sexual in a way that hasn't occurred since my early teens, and has me doubting my motivations.
I don't really know what to do from here, how I should interpret both the past and my present, or whether it's even anything to be concerned about outside of just my own difficulty.
Moser is the guy who did it.
And even using more strict definitions of arousal, 28% of those women still fell under autogynephilia.
Hey so it turns out people feel sexier in bodies/clothes/appearances they are comfortable with!
Who'da thunk it???
that sounded shitty and dismissive
I just mean there's no checkmark 'time' that if you weren't fixated on your gender at that point you're just "faking" and autogynephilic or something
Tumblr | Twitter PSN: misterdapper Av by Satellite_09
Google
basically it's dismissing transitioning as satisfying a fetish rather than a psychological need
So, a shitty gate-keeping tactic?
Now if only I could get the tucking thing down so I can actually put on a pair of underwear; that would be cool
If it makes you feel any better...I also started fantasizing of myself as a woman as a sexual thing...and it's grown and developed from there. So you're not alone in that aspect. And I struggle with some of these same feelings....I know I shouldn't feel bad for them, but they still sometimes cause me to doubt the validity of my identity. I know it's bullshit, my therapist agrees with me that it's bullshit...but it's still there. Part of it is from being raised in a very sex negative environment and part of it is my own fear of what the future might hold as I go down this path. But I keep pushing forward anyway....just little steps at a time.
I did a factory reset on my phone and thought I had backed up all the pictures.
I didn't.
They're all gone.
No Google photos or Dropbox or anything?
Google practically needs a restraining order to not back everything up.